Dallas Racial/class Tension

[RedScare]

http://mappoint.msn.com/(aipr40j0nn2zwr45c...469|1|75202|L1|

Mmm, no, this map says Fair Park is pretty much exactly due east of downtown. The downtown STREETS head northeast, giving the illusion of southeast, but, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's east. And, more importantly, the residents of Fair Park say they are in East Dallas.

Anyway, Willy, I'm not picking on your directions, but I will pick on your assumption that the Cowboys would improve the South or East Side's economy. They only play 10 games a year there, and the only jobs produced for local residents is 3 to 4 hours of beer and peanut sales for a few hundred people. The Cowboys, nor any other sports team, will not pump that much into Fair Park's, or Arlington's wallets. It all goes into Jerry Jones'.

Pro sports revenue is grossly overrated. It is good for civic pride (if they are winning), but the economic argument has been debunked over and over.

[Willy1]

Yeah, you're right. Fair Park is more East than South.... But, the Fair Park residential areas - which I was referring to, lie south of Fair Park... In South East Dallas. When people in Dallas think of "East Dallas", they're more likely thinking of White Rock/Lakewood.

As for the Cowboys pumping money into the area.... in this case they would have helped tremendously. You have to remember that even though they don't play that many games a year - Fair Park is home to the State Fair and Tex/OU shootout. And, the Cowboy's new stadium will bring in the Super Bowl too. That would spawn hotels and all sorts of development around Fair Park that isn't there now. When you look at the AA Center in Downtown Dallas you see all sorts of development popping up around it now - residential, hotel, and retail. The same sort of development is going to follow the new Cowboy stadium. They've already be flashing proposals around on the local news/papers in DFW. They're planning a Times Square style development with high rise hotels, condos, offices, and retail immediately surrounding the new stadium. Restaurants and other year-round retail are going to make the stadium a year-round destination, not just a game day thing.

Irving has certainly seen a drastic change in their economy and status as a result of having the Cowboys. The entire Las Colinas area was the result of developers wanting to profit from the nearby Texas Stadium/Dallas Cowboys. Ultimately Las Colinas never took off the way it was originally intended. But, that's mainly because of poor planning, not a lack of potential. It was overbuilt in the 80's like much of Dallas and that hurt. But, it's still a vital part of the DFW business community. Many big companies office in Irving/Las Colinas. Had the Cowboys never moved to Irving, most likely Las Colinas would have never happened. Some would even say that The Four Seasons/Byron Nelson landed in Irving as a result of the Dallas Cowboys building in Irving.... Point is, there are all sorts of fringe benefits and developments that aren't directly tied to the jobs generated by a stadium.

I stand by the fact that the Cowboys moving to Fair Park would have given the city an economic boost. Sure, it's a civic pride thing... But, think about all the national attention that comes with a national sports franchise... Sure, Jerry Jones will get even richer than he already is, but not ALL the money will go to him.

[RedScare]

"And, the Cowboy's new stadium will bring in the Super Bowl too. That would spawn hotels and all sorts of development around Fair Park that isn't there now. When you look at the AA Center in Downtown Dallas you see all sorts of development popping up around it now - residential, hotel, and retail. The same sort of development is going to follow the new Cowboy stadium."

Been there. Done that.

Houston built what may be the finest stadium in the NFL. Got a Super Bowl, too. Looking for another one. I can't think of one development in The Reliant Park/Astroworld area directly attributable to the Texans and their stadium coming to the area.

[alumnus]

I would be more willing to give the credit for Las Colinas to DFW aairport than the Cowboys, but thats just my opinion

[The Great Hizzy!]

^^^ So would I. The location decision was based off of some of the same rationalization that spawned Greenspoint.

Convenience.

As for Reliant Park, the areas surrounding it are what they are, and many of them are more a result of the ever growing TMC than Reliant Stadium/Reliant Astrodome/Reliant Hall/Astroworld/etc.

Re: South Dallas and the Cowboys. I have doubts that a full rejuvenation of the neighborhood would've occured. Maybe the warehouse to the north and northeast of Fair Park might have seen rejuvenation, but the core of the South Dallas neighborhood wouldn't have benefited much. The same idea was planned for the Overtown area in Miami when the Miami Arena (the Miami Heat's original home) was built in the mid-80s. A couple of highrises went up but the neighborhood overall went from bad to even worse, so bad, in fact, that the heat soon demanded another arena just twelve years later. One located further east and away from the crime and drugs of Overtown.

The first step in rejuvenating South Dallas is to eliminate the pervasiveness of crime and drugs. Throw in some affordable housing and work your way up. THEN you can try broader and more aggressive urban renewal, as the reputation of the community will be softer and people will be less jaded.

DPD's handling of the Nuisance Property Law in South Dallas hasn't helped at all.

[houstonfella]

I guess I can chime in: Houston's diversity makes it awesome. Over 90 languages spoken here with 82 foreign consulates. We get along so well. I can't imagine Houston ever not just humming along. I hope Dallas works it all out because I like Dallas-FW; overall, very nice cities.

[N Judah]

I choose to blame zoning.

[YakuzaIce]

I choose to blame zoning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

???

I guess you are joking, considering you and shastas discussion.

[houstonfella]

???

I guess you are joking, considering you and shastas discussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zoning always puzzles me. I drive from Love Field to downtown and Cedar Springs has houses, businesses, a 7-11 next to a house and a warehouse across the street. How is that different than say, in Houston? Does zoning work?

[LTAWACS]

Dallas is known as a very racist city.  It does a very good showing off the very nice areas but behind the scenes it is very racist, trashy, and crime infected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could not have said it better myself.

[rantanamo]

shakes head in disbelief at some of the statements.

I love mostly the one that started it.

I went to Dallas this week to study its many urban projects.

You took the entire temperature of the city in a few days?

I really, really do encourage you guys to read Dallasmetropolis and the actual issues we discuss on the city. You will see where the actual political boundaries lie, where the business community's heads really are. Perhaps you'll actually catch some facts.

[Casual Observer]

But we don't have time to form educated & calculated opinions about Dallas - we have to act now!

[The Great Hizzy!]

shakes head in disbelief at some of the statements.

I love mostly the one that started it.

You took the entire temperature of the city in a few days?

I really, really do encourage you guys to read Dallasmetropolis and the actual issues we discuss on the city.  You will see where the actual political boundaries lie, where the business community's heads really are.  Perhaps you'll actually catch some facts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like what? Like those gems such as Houston's refineries being so overwhelming that you can smell the petroleum 35 miles away in Kingwood?

Or maybe the sundry of other "factoids" like:

The strutting around over mass transit superiority due to having 13.5 more miles of LRT but only moving 22,000 more people per day and having two transit agencies (DART and "The T") with a combined overall transit ridership that's significantly less than METRO by itself?

Or the idea that because Midtown hasn't developed as quickly as Uptown Dallas that there is little urban renewal in inner Houston (I laugh every time I read some informed individual hint at that one).

While I'm sure there are many factoids to be found at DM to dispell the blanket anti-Dallas statements found here (and I agree there are some doozies), I wouldn't exactly trumpet Dallas Metropolis as being a particularly accurate and unbiased source for what's going on in Houston either. Some of those comments, disguised as indifference at that, are borderline pathetic.

[largeTEXAS]

shakes head in disbelief at some of the statements.

I love mostly the one that started it.

You took the entire temperature of the city in a few days?

I really, really do encourage you guys to read Dallasmetropolis and the actual issues we discuss on the city.

[Gary]

Like what? Like those gems such as Houston's refineries being so overwhelming that you can smell the petroleum 35 miles away in Kingwood?

Or maybe the sundry of other "factoids" like:

The strutting around over mass transit superiority due to having 13.5 more miles of LRT but only moving 22,000 more people per day and having two transit agencies (DART and "The T") with a combined overall transit ridership that's significantly less than METRO by itself?

Or the idea that because Midtown hasn't developed as quickly as Uptown Dallas that there is little urban renewal in inner Houston (I laugh every time I read some informed individual hint at that one).

While I'm sure there are many factoids to be found at DM to dispell the blanket anti-Dallas statements found here (and I agree there are some doozies), I wouldn't exactly trumpet Dallas Metropolis as being a particularly accurate and unbiased source for what's going on in Houston either. Some of those comments, disguised as indifference at that, are borderline pathetic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Triple ouch.

[HOUCAJUN]

Great reply, Great hizzy.

[bigboyz2004]

Head east.. you'll find alot more along the Louisiana border.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I definitely agree. I live in Texarkana. In Texarkana race relations are I think good but not so when you go to these small hillbilly towns a few miles on the outskirts. Did you guys hear about what happened to a 41 yr. old mentally challenged black man in Linden, TX. This man was invited to this party and some of the people got drunk and made him dance. Then later on he was physically attacked by one of the partygoers repeatedly being called a monkey and n!gger. He lost consciousness and apparently they panicked so they took him and dumped him in a ditch, where he received numerous ant bites all over his body. The "men" went back and took him to the hospital. They were later acquitted of all charges. That's why I hate small country towns.

[danes75]

from my posts on here, you'd probably see that I'm pretty pro-dallas, but i do have to partly agree with the post about race being an issue in the city.

i'm not sure if saying it is racist is actually accurate however. it is more economically segregated than race (but of course economic standing usually has racial patterns), and there are huge gulfs between the low incomes and the high incomes.

i lived there for several years in a loft by fair park (deep ellum) and saw the area transition from grunge rockers and high school kids to hiphop and black almost overnight. when my friends and i first moved to the area it was a fun place with small bars and art galleries everywhere. we moved out of our lofts two years later when his girlfriend was mugged not once or twice, but three times (in two weeks, one time in broad daylight) on her way from her car to the front door... that and all of the windows of the businesses below our lofts being shot out one night.

i went back a few months ago to check out the old neighborhood and felt even more unsafe. there were roadblocks and police everywhere. all of the advertising agencies and design houses that had set up shop there were gone. the art galleries which had drawn me to the area in the first place had turned into hiphop clubs (actually two of them had been burned down).

The greenville avenue incident was probably a fluke. Its a strip that attracts mostly bratty SMU students and suburbia dwellers that want to come into the "big city" for a night on the town.

I honestly don't think that the city council can do much about the problem. They can enact more laws and curfews and hire more police, but ultimately the responsibility for closing the economic and social gap lies with community leaders and parents. If they're raising gangbangers and snotty brats, then no amount of legislation can fix that.

Its like seeing the water in the bathtub overflowing. The intelligent answer is to turn off the water, but the government's answer is to get the most expensive, solid gold thimble it can find and start bailing.