Saving Original Floors

[apower]

We just bought a bungalow in sunset heights. One of the rooms has some nasty 70s or 80s looking carpet in it, but I pulled up a corner and there are the original hardwood that are in the rest of the house underneath.

I did not post in the general home renovation section because we are not looking for a recommendation for just a "floor guy." Looking for a recommendation for someone you used to actually remove carpet or some overlay and salvage the original hardwoods underneath. Is there a go-to heights guy for this in the way pfister seems to be the go-to pier and beam guy (at least from my searches on here and asking around).

[RedScare]

Not to be a forum nazi (we already have a guy that does that), but this still belongs in the Home Renovation section. As for the floors, I pulled up the carpet myself for free. If you are not up to a little physical labor, you may hire someone for that. I have no idea where my floor guy is these days (possibly in prison), so I cannot recommend him. There is nothing special about Heights floors, so I would not limit myself to a Heights guy. There are many good floor refinishers around Houston.

Something that you might keep in mind is that old wood floors were not always meant to be exposed, especially the pine floors. Those that were meant to be exposed tend to be drafty, since there was no AC back in the day. I refinished my kitchen floors, and regretted it soon after. This is not to talk you out of anything, more to let you know that there are options other than simply redoing the original floors. There is pressure from so-called historic house "experts" that things must be done a certain way. The more I learn about old houses, the more I find that these "experts" do not know what they are talking about. One of them is floors.

[s3mh]

Yes, the old hardwoods are drafty because there is no insulation under the house (and if there is, you probably want to remove it to keep from getting mold). But, somethime around 500 BC, people became proficient at weaving fibers into thick mats that are now know as "rugs". The moccasin has also evolved into a modern inovation called "slippers".

You should definitely look for someone with a lot of experience and references in handling refinishing hardwoods in old houses. Your standard hardwood floor guy will just sand it down and put on a finish that will probably be too heavy on polyurethane, making the floors too shiny. Your standard floor guy will also not be the best person to deal with if you need to replace a board (they will just plop down whatever they get at the lumber yard instead of getting a reclaimed piece that matches the existing floor) or have problems with gaps between boards (I have seen people fill gaps with wood filler and try to paint them to match the flooring) and leveling issues with the molding. I have seen some serious butchering by the average floor guy in the Heights.

There really isn't a "go to" guy in the Heights as most of the builder/renovators are the ones who contract with people to do flooring restoration. I did shop around a flooring job and liked the folks at Clouse. They are in the Heights and have been in business forever. But I am not sure they are necessarily the best at restoring historic flooring as I gave up on doing the work before I got .

I have seen excellent restoration work done in houses that Lucas Craftsmanship and Bungalow Revival renovated. Might want to give them a call and ask them who they like to use for flooring. If done right, restored floors can really add a lot of value to an old house in the Heights. I remember going to dozens of open houses and always watching people cringe when they saw a room that had the flooring replaced or carpeted over.

[fwki]

My floors are drafty because we have no subfloor, just pine flooring right on the floor joists. And whenever they invented fibeglass insulation (I must have a beta version) the owner stapled some of that nasty stuff under there, but without subfloor even the mosquitoes fly right in. So check for subflooring. According to my favorite floor guy, the pine used for flooring in these old houses is pine heartwood from the center of the tree, very expensive nowadays, hard to find and match.

I know several flooring subcontractors and company owners. Clouse is the biggest name and gets a lot of the top-dollar work, but the job will depend on the quality of the subcontractor that the flooring company hires, most are free agents that work by the job with their own tools. I have used Clouse and Floors Etcetera, both did great jobs and handled issues fairly. I have also used free agents for minor work, waxing, etc.

My original pine has seen better days and can no longer be sanded, so it is soon to become the subfloor. I will enjoy laying new wood on top and good riddance to the mosquitoes and drafts. Looking back, I should have made this move years ago instead of refinishing. Some things are not worth keeping, bad floors being one.

[RedScare]

All old floors have no subfloor. The pine that we are refinishing IS the original subfloor. They put linoleum on it in the kitchen, and rugs everywhere else, but it is what it is.

[fwki]

Wow, I just thought my guy was a cheap bastard.

[RedScare]

Nah, they would put down blocks, build the frame, and lay that pine floor on top of it. Then they put in the wall studs on top of it. For all of the talk about these old houses being built so well, they didn't put down subfloors or base plates in the walls. And 2x4 roof joists, too.

[jamesw]

I used a guy named Sam Sader back in 2005 to refinish/clean up the floors in my bungalow. They were the thin pine type. He did a great job and I would recommend him.

Cheers

James

[fwki]

Nah, they would put down blocks, build the frame, and lay that pine floor on top of it. Then they put in the wall studs on top of it. For all of the talk about these old houses being built so well, they didn't put down subfloors or base plates in the walls. And 2x4 roof joists, too.

Yeah, remember when that revelation hit me after I bought the house in the early 90's....I decided I would never ride out a hurricane and sooner or later the house would have to go. Once the kids are out, I'm going on a world tour and returning to a new build...something to really p. o. the pine stick lovers like Japanese Pagoda style or maybe a survivalist theme with gun slots and a walled compound.

[TGM]

Once the kids are out, I'm going on a world tour and returning to a new build...something to really p. o. the pine stick lovers like Japanese Pagoda style or maybe a survivalist theme with gun slots and a walled compound.

Stack a few shipping containers together and call it a house. That should meet all the requirements mentioned above, plus it's sooo artsy. They can't complain about art and still maintain a left-leaning public image. (or can they?)

[rental me this]

The pine floors in our bungalow lie right on the joists, just like most of these old Heights homes. When we moved in, we noticed places where the tongue and groove had broken, leading to "soft" spots in the floor. We went under the house and built a cradle between the joists to reinforce the soft spots and prevent further breakage.

One of the best improvements we made to the house was insulating the underside of the floor using rigid spray foam insulation. We used a company called AIS Foam and I would recommend them. Cost a couple thousand dollars for a 1200 square foot house, but well worth it. The house is much less damp, the floor isn't as cold, and most noticeably - the floor feels so much more SOLID than before. It's also quieter to walk on. It's not a flashy improvement, but it's by far my favorite.

As far as riding out hurricanes, I trust the shiplap in the walls of my current house to withstand far more than the fake stucco/sheetrock combo of my old townhome. During Ike, the entire townhome shook and vibrated like a cheap motel bed.

[SilverJK]

You should definitely look for someone with a lot of experience and references in handling refinishing hardwoods in old houses. Your standard hardwood floor guy will just sand it down and put on a finish that will probably be too heavy on polyurethane, making the floors too shiny. Your standard floor guy will also not be the best person to deal with if you need to replace a board (they will just plop down whatever they get at the lumber yard instead of getting a reclaimed piece that matches the existing floor) or have problems with gaps between boards (I have seen people fill gaps with wood filler and try to paint them to match the flooring) and leveling issues with the molding. I have seen some serious butchering by the average floor guy in the Heights.

Your standard s3mh answer (opinions passed as facts)... Heavy use of polyurethane will not make the floors shiny, heavy use of clear gloss polyurethane will. Using a clear satin would not make the floors shiny. There has recently been some advancement in polyurethane, and there are now waterbased products available that are less hazardous. I'm not sure about their application for floors, but I've been expermimenting with them on my skateboard/longboard finishes with very good results. (durability is crucial) so it is something I'd look in to.

Alot of the pine floors you find in these houses are also loblolly or long leaf pine varietals, which is quite hard to track down.

[SilverJK]

Stack a few shipping containers together and call it a house. That should meet all the requirements mentioned above, plus it's sooo artsy. They can't complain about art and still maintain a left-leaning public image. (or can they?)

I really dig this. Wouldn't have to worry about a draft coming up these floors.

[TGM]

I really dig this. Wouldn't have to worry about a draft coming up these floors.

Even better you can pick up a few chickens at Wabash and raise them underneath the house.

Art & Poultry, what's not to like?

[SilverJK]

co op art studio with chickens... coop co-op. Genius.

[samagon]

I love 2 things about the old floors in my house:

1. dark.

b. thin planks.

next. it reminds me very much of my grandmother's house (granted I do live about 2 blocks from where her house still stands).

so 4 things I really like about the old floors.

I'd like to keep the floors as they are forever, but that's not realistic, so I might end up with bamboo covering the existing floors. you can get some really neat looking floors.

[RedScare]

Your standard s3mh answer (opinions passed as facts)... Heavy use of polyurethane will not make the floors shiny, heavy use of clear gloss polyurethane will. Using a clear satin would not make the floors shiny.

Yep, clearly a guy who hasn't redone his floors yet. There are some photos of mine after I had them redone. They got the requisite oohs and aahs from HAIF posters. But, after 9 years of staring at the dirt through the gaps during the winter when the boards shrink, I am just about done with them.

There are some good things about old houses...and plenty of bad. The myth that they are built so much better than new houses is just that, a myth. They were built for a standard of living that no longer exists, that being the time before central AC. Because air movement was the only way to keep cool, the homes are drafty as hell...on purpose. But, that is exactly the opposite of what a centrally cooled home needs.

The shiplap does make the house hold up well to wind. In fact, that is now what is required on new construction...OSB sheathing on the outside, versus the shiplap inside. But, old houses use 2x10s as joists, spaced 2 feet apart. Makes for a bouncy floor when compared to 2x12s spaced 16 inches, and sometimes only 12 inches apart. Further, today's homes are strapped to keep roofs from blowing away. They are also secured to the foundation. A good wind against an old house will knock it clean off the blocks. And, the plumbing and electrical systems are horrid. Try selling a house with knob and tube wiring in it. Knob and tube works fine as long as the insulation is intact, but after 100 years, that fabric is rotted and nicked all over.

Still, in spite of these issues, I love an old house, just as I did my old Ford Bronco. But, some people try to make these houses something they aren't. It tends to be the same people who fawn over Target, but despise Walmart. They rush to buy the new iPhone, when the Galaxy is better. They want commercial appliances in their kitchen that feeds two people 3 times a week. It is all about appearances. They cannot just say, "I like this house for its character." They must make it more. So, they make up myths like claiming they are built better than new homes. Someday, I'll sell this old house and build a new one near the beach. While my old house wouldn't make it through a good tropical storm at the beach, my new one will be designed and built to withstand a CAT3 or better storm. It will likely use 75% less energy, too. Might even have a solar array, dropping my electricity usage to zero. It may have a bit less character than this old house. Maybe not. But, it will be built like a tank. And I won't care what the latte sippers think of it.

Back to the floors. Yes, you can get satin poly. They don't have to look like ice. But, get used to the drafts. Wood swell in the summer, and shrinks in the winter. No amount of wood filler will cure it. When the wood swells, the filler cracks. When it shrinks, the wood filler falls out. Enjoy those original hardwoods, but keep in mind their limitations. If you can afford it, the best thing to do would be to pull them up, lay down a subfloor, and relay the wood. That will cost upwards of $10-15 per foot.

Here's a nice satin clear poly finish...

[fwki]

To save money I am skipping the new subfloor part and laying a weather seal and new floor on top, thinking about going across at 45 degrees (not recommended to lay the new floor in the same direction0. I have already shored up with additional joists. My kitchen is now higher due to new porcelain tile on top, so this method will level the rooms again too.

[RedScare]

To save money I am skipping the new subfloor part and laying a weather seal and new floor on top, thinking about going across at 45 degrees (not recommended to lay the new floor in the same direction0. I have already shored up with additional joists. My kitchen is now higher due to new porcelain tile on top, so this method will level the rooms again too.

I've thought of this approach, as well. My bathrooms are higher due to tile, and the kitchen probably will be next. With proper joisting, the 3/4 inch pine could act as an adequate subfloor.

[TGM]

I love herringbone pattern wood floors, but I'm guessing that they're not the cheapest to install. I think they take a house up to a whole new level.

[samagon]

yeah, once you start talking about different patterns, or parquet, that's when you go for a-whole-nuther level of price, but then they also can bring the look of a house to the whole-nuther level too.

[rental me this]

Echoing Red, my house has alternately made me want (a) hug it and live in it forever, and ( burn it to the ground. I lived in the Heights as a renter for a while, moved away, and was finally able to convince the mister that we should sell his townhome and buy a house here. We've put close to 25k into it since buying it 3 years ago and we've got work to do yet. I'm not doing it to turn a profit. I just really love these houses. I also love the funky old artifacts we keep finding. Children's books and WWII canteens in the attic, and old quinine "tonic" bottles buried in the yard. These houses aren't for everyone. But they are definitely for me.

Specifically on the topic of floors, a guy from Clouse Floor came out and looked at ours, told us they had been refinished too many times already and were basically done. I can accept this, as nothing lasts forever. One day the old floor will become the new subfloor, but not anytime soon. We've got a big rambunctious dog, and I'm not inclined to drop a ton of money on a new floor during her lifetime.

[fwki]

And you get a whole nuther level of friends!