Public Transit Moneypit!

[The Great Hizzy!]

I'm sure it will to some degree, but remember a bus was hit as well. Unfortunately, there's only so much you can do to defend public transit properties from terrorism. You're not likely to see an agency ban persons from coming abord the vehicles with bags so a person who is dedicated enough can bring a bag full of explosive onto a bus and detonate it. It's a very real risk when taking public transit.

Just like there isn't a 100% guarantee that we can protect bridges, tunnels, underpasses and whatever from terrorism. Any guy with a car bomb who parks along the side of a ramp or underneath a freeway can cause some serious damage.

Intelligence gathering is critical in a head-'em-off-at-the-pass kind of way. Knowing your enemy and tracking his moves, etc, but even that doesn't stop it 100%, and to do better than what we (and London, etc) have now will cost more money.

Which leads me to wonder if this will also give transit agencies the motivation to ask for more federal funding to fight transit terrorism? Seems like a resonable concern.

[YakuzaIce]

I wonder if the bombings in the tube will embolden rail opponents in Houston.

It is strangely coincidental that this happened the day after London was chosen to host the Olympics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it was probably more for the G8 summit it was probably just good fortune (this seems bad to say) on the terrorists part that it was right after the olympics had been announced.

heres the article from the chron

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory2/3256059

I don't think this will hurt rail in the long term though. Americans and I guess everyone seem to have short term memories. I mean just look high rise construction. It seemed to stop after 9/11 but now the US and around the world are having a huge building boom.

[Lowbrow]

To preserve liberty I think we will always be at risk. Its the nature of a free society. My opinion is that we need to pay more attention to our policies abroad rather than our security at home. I'm sure I'm in the minority here though.

It's hard to police the world and force our standards/ethics on others and not expect to put ourselves in danger.

Everytime we make some change here at home in reaction to a terrorist action I cringe. Say we lost funding for public transport because of something like this... to me they've won just a little bit.

[jghall00]

Interesting that you mention Seattle for comparison.

[YakuzaIce]

Seattle

569,101 in city

3,763,569 in metro

Houston

2,009,690 in city

5,176,061 in metro

I think this is the 2005 est. It may be 2004

EDIT: I think it is 05 but that would be weird they put Houstons pop as lower than 04. 04 is 2,012,626

[RedScare]

Seattle metro population is 3,450,000. Seattle's transit system is a metro wide system, serving Tacoma and Everett, as well as Seattle.

Houston's METRO serves only Harris County, which is 3,650,000.

[The Great Hizzy!]

It doesn't even serve all of Harris County.

For example, Tomball, Pasadena, Deer Park, La Porte, South Houston and all of the Clear Lake municipalities are NOT part of METRO's sales tax district.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Re: Houston's population numbers

The 2,009,000 figure is based on the 2003 census estimate.

The 2,012,000 figure is based on the 2004 census estimate.

FTR, the COH estimates its population at 2,050,000 as of Jan. 1, 2005 and the Urban Institute of Texas estimated it at 2,040,000 in July of 2004.

The census often undercounts its estimates (not always but often), as many international immigrants aren't factored in to those estimates.

[kjb434]

Metro's Service area is more than Houston though. As said before the service areas is over 3 million people.

[ssullivan]

Kind of spooky that London's transportation system is being discussed.

This is a big reason why I didn't want Houston to get the Olympics. We probably would have become a target.

With a major port, the oil industry, NASA, a major commerce center, one of the nation's largest population centers, and a huge international presence, Houston doesn't need an Olympics to be a terroritst target. They already have plenty of reason to target this city. I hate to say this, but it's probably not a matter of if, but when, something happens here.

That said, I'm not a person who runs around worrying about the terrorist threat or changing my plans because of it. I have a trip planned to London for the first week of September and it's still on.

[YakuzaIce]

With a major port, the oil industry, NASA, a major commerce center, one of the nation's largest population centers, and a huge international presence, Houston doesn't need an Olympics to be a terroritst target. They already have plenty of reason to target this city. I hate to say this, but it's probably not a matter of if, but when, something happens here.

That said, I'm not a person who runs around worrying about the terrorist threat or changing my plans because of it. I have a trip planned to London for the first week of September and it's still on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wondering has there ever been a major foreign or domestic terrorist attack in LA or Chicago? It always seems as if NY is the main target. I will look around to see it there have been any.

[RedScare]

With a major port, the oil industry, NASA, a major commerce center, one of the nation's largest population centers, and a huge international presence, Houston doesn't need an Olympics to be a terroritst target. They already have plenty of reason to target this city. I hate to say this, but it's probably not a matter of if, but when, something happens here.

That said, I'm not a person who runs around worrying about the terrorist threat or changing my plans because of it. I have a trip planned to London for the first week of September and it's still on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. 15,000 Americans will be murdered this year. 45,000 will die in auto accidents. I don't refuse to leave my house or drive my car because of these REAL threats. So, I am definitely not changing my plans because there is an icecube's chance that a political terrorist might get lucky and bomb the shop or restaurant that I'm in that day.

My odds of winning Mega Millions are better than being a victim of a terrorist.

[ssullivan]

But what's sad is the number of people who don't feel that way RedScare. Not long ago I was waiting at the Cleveland airport for a flight home and a woman and her daughter sitting next to me were quite nervous about getting on the plane. Neither had flown since before 9/11, and had been refusing to get on an airplane for over three years just because of the terrorist attack that day. Of course, we haven't had a death on an American airliner due to terrorism in nearly four years now, but I'm sure these two weren't alone in their fear.

I, on the other hand, flew just a few days after 9/11 with only a minimal amount of nervousness about it.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

That said, I'm not a person who runs around worrying about the terrorist threat or changing my plans because of it. I have a trip planned to London for the first week of September and it's still on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. It will happen eventually in H-town. Terrorrism has existed way before Sep 11( Oklahoma, WTC bombing, IRA.....) it will be around for hundreds of years after we're gone. I won't let it get me down here I sure as hell won't back at home.

I'll be in the U.K. around September too(Manchester), then H-town can't wait!!

[N Judah]

Seattle metro population is 3,450,000.

[RedScare]

In reading about Seattle transit, I did notice one big thing that can't be compared between the two cities. Seattle residents' commitment to public transit as part of the congestion problem versus many Houstonians' equal commitment against mass transit as part of a solution. While $11 Billion dollars for a 14 mile monorail is a terrible cost/benefit, 20 lane freeways as a solution is just as bad on the other side.

Though there is a grudging acceptance that we need all forms of transit to fight gridlock, there are still too many who fail to realize that every person who takes mass transit is one less person ahead of them on the freeway. A little less myopic thinking will move us a long way.

[sevfiv]

myopia is chronic around here!

[jghall00]

I agree.  It will happen eventually in H-town.  Terrorrism has existed way before Sep 11( Oklahoma, WTC bombing, IRA.....) it will be around for hundreds of years after we're gone. I won't let it get me down here I sure as hell won't back at home.

I'll be in the U.K. around September too(Manchester), then H-town can't wait!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think anyone would waste time attacking Houston, it has insufficient density to provide a real scare. The only viable targets here are the refineries. A major attack on those could do some damage, given our economy's dependence on relatively low fuel prices.

[Dominax]

Seattle

569,101 in city

3,763,569 in metro

Houston

2,009,690 in city

5,176,061 in metro

I think this is the 2005 est.  It may be 2004

EDIT: I think it is 05 but that would be weird they put Houstons pop as lower than 04.  04 is 2,012,626

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Year of 2006 will have the actuall new population of Houston and Seattle in Rand McNally Road Atlas.

[YakuzaIce]

Year of 2006 will have the actuall new population of Houston and Seattle in Rand McNally Road Atlas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where do they get their numbers? Once the census gets the 2010 numbers that will probably be the most accurate. Their estimates always seem to be off.

[RedScare]

The only "actual" numbers are the decennial census figures. Everything else is merely an estimate.

Back in the old days, the phone company had a pretty good annual estimate based on new phone lines. Given all of the different uses and types of phones, I wonder if they do that anymore.

[2112]

Houston doesn't even begin to come close to Seattle's Mass Transit infrastructure.

[2112]

wank on

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LMAO!!!!

[2112]

Interesting that you mention Seattle for comparison.  The websites you refered us to, show 3,400 daily commuters on TWO commuter rail lines.  Not exactly setting the transit world on fire.

The light rail segment brags about carrying 750,000 passengers in its first year.  Compare that to half a million commuters on Houston's LRT....per MONTH.

Seattles express buses carry 30,000 commuters daily.  Their bus system carries the same number of riders annually as Houston's.

So, they have more rail, but carry only 40% as many commuters as Houston's starter line, and their bus system carries the same number as ours.

You're right.  There is no comparison.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Awesome post. Thanks for doing the research for me! I was about to go look up the numbers, then notice you had allready done so.

I think 214's real goal here is to talk smack about H-town, period. Constructive critisism means noticing what works and what doesnt. The good and the bad. I havent heard anything positive from 214. Hell, his handle I think speaks more volumes than anything else I have read.

[RedScare]

Yeah, I got this vibe on several threads. It really started with the new transit plan brokered by the congressmen and the mayor. Like I said before, you can delicate flower all day long about DeLay and Culberson (and I do), but when they finally do something good for us, even if it helps them, too, you have to give credit where it is due.

When he moves back to Houston, he'll be trashing Dallas like a hooker on crack.