The Woodlands Is On Fire!

[boounce]

I've never seen anything like it. My wife and I just moved here and were amazed at the competition over the inventory. We had our alerts setup and were running around with an iPad on call. One house got six offers the first day. They actually refused to show it to us the next day!

I would be curious as to what percentage of houses that are pending in the 200-500k range in 77381 and 77382. Some of the areas we looked at easily had over 50% as pending/option.

[bachanon]

interesting. i heard that there are homes in the woodlands (plural) that realtors have had buyers the same day they went on the market. i saw a quarterly report of home sales in 77380 with homes under 150k selling within 45 days (with shrinking inventory). hopefully sales will outpace new construction. any haif realtors with input on the woodlands' real estate .......state?

[boounce]

We saw several that went the same day. If the home is updated and priced well, it seems to go in the first week. It's very unnerving when you have to make one of the largest decisions in your life in a 20 minute showing.

Btw-- we excluded new construction as most of the new homes are in magnolia or tomball isd. Not saying they are bad schools, but TWHS is very stable. CISD also has a good technology and science program at College Park.

[Fringe]

The Mexicans are snatching them up.

http://www.chron.com/default/article/Mexican-buyers-fuel-area-property-market-3586941.php

The Woodlands, a master-planned community north of Houston, seems to get the lion's share of Mexican buyers, agents say.

[innerloop]

Don't forget about the pending move for Exxon. In anticipation of the move, and to try and beat the rush/price increases, a lot of the Exxon employees are already moving up to the woodlands.

[IronTiger]

Oh. The topic title suggested something different.

[Pleak]

Oh. The topic title suggested something different.

I actually thought the same thing. I was thinking - how much will home insurance rates go up now?

[cheryljohns]

interesting. i heard that there are homes in the woodlands (plural) that realtors have had buyers the same day they went on the market. i saw a quarterly report of home sales in 77380 with homes under 150k selling within 45 days (with shrinking inventory). hopefully sales will outpace new construction. any haif realtors with input on the woodlands' real estate .......state?

Yes, it's even creeping down to Champions. As soon as we see a house that the buyer likes - I try and contact the listing agent to let them know we are interested - just to possibly slow down negotiations with another party. Then we keep looking for a back-up, just in case.

[KinkaidAlum]

It isn't just The Woodlands.

My sister listed her house in Hunter's Creek two weeks ago. She got a full price offer on the VERY first day from a couple moving here from London. They never even saw the house in person. All cash offer with a 3 week closing.

On my block near Rice U, and older 20s house that had been renovated sold in 2 days. Less than 3 weeks later, the family moved in. The husband and wife are both Brazilian but moved here to teach at Rice after spending the last 10 years as professors at UC San Diego.

[bachanon]

It isn't just The Woodlands.

My sister listed her house in Hunter's Creek two weeks ago. She got a full price offer on the VERY first day from a couple moving here from London. They never even saw the house in person. All cash offer with a 3 week closing.

On my block near Rice U, and older 20s house that had been renovated sold in 2 days. Less than 3 weeks later, the family moved in. The husband and wife are both Brazilian but moved here to teach at Rice after spending the last 10 years as professors at UC San Diego.

so it's the houston area in general. it's also the beginning of the summer buying season. good news either way.

[woolie]

Sounds like asking prices aren't high enough.

[RedScare]

Sounds like buyers haven't heard about the 70% tax increase yet.

[boounce]

Sounds like buyers haven't heard about the 70% tax increase yet.

Hypothetically, if the woodlands became a full fledged city today, township tax revenue would need to increase 60-70% to be in the green. The township taxes like .27 now, so if you pay 2.7%, you will see your overall taxes go up 10%. Now consider tax rates have actually been going down (as a percentage), and that TW has 46 more years to become a full city. I think us buyers will be ok.

[RedScare]

Hypothetically, if the woodlands became a full fledged city today, township tax revenue would need to increase 60-70% to be in the green. The township taxes like .27 now, so if you pay 2.7%, you will see your overall taxes go up 10%. Now consider tax rates have actually been going down (as a percentage), and that TW has 46 more years to become a full city. I think us buyers will be ok.

Well, actually, the township currently taxes at .328. Additionally, you pay MUD taxes that ranged from .10 to 1.15, with most in the .24 to .32 range. If the Woodlands incorporated, the township tax would increase to .55 and the MUD tax would be .26 for everyone, for a total city tax of .81. That compares to the City of Houston's rate of .63875. Your overall rate would be approximately $3.00 to a Houston resident's rate of $2.50.

I think it is great that Woodlands residents are civic minded enough to pay 20% higher taxes to run their government. In this conservative anti-tax climate, a liberal view on raising taxes is refreshing to see, especially considering that people are paying full price to buy homes there. I couldn't do it. Instead, I stayed in Houston, and use my property tax savings to commute up there.

[boounce]

Well, actually, the township currently taxes at .328. Additionally, you pay MUD taxes that ranged from .10 to 1.15, with most in the .24 to .32 range. If the Woodlands incorporated, the township tax would increase to .55 and the MUD tax would be .26 for everyone, for a total city tax of .81. That compares to the City of Houston's rate of .63875. Your overall rate would be approximately $3.00 to a Houston resident's rate of $2.50.

I think it is great that Woodlands residents are civic minded enough to pay 20% higher taxes to run their government. In this conservative anti-tax climate, a liberal view on raising taxes is refreshing to see, especially considering that people are paying full price to buy homes there. I couldn't do it. Instead, I stayed in Houston, and use my property tax savings to commute up there.

So now it's not 70%, it's 20%. Got it.

My tax rate is under 2.50 in TW. Where are you commuting from that the price of gas would save you money?

[RedScare]

So now it's not 70%, it's 20%. Got it.

My tax rate is under 2.50 in TW. Where are you commuting from that the price of gas would save you money?

Your intentional display of ignorance is not helping your argument, especially considering that a few posts earlier you explained the the 70% increase correctly. I suspect that you don't really want to admit that the Woodlands, for all of its benefits, does have one glaring wart, which is higher tax rates. That is fine. It is not me paying them.

As for my tax savings, There are several details that are not readily apparent in the nominal tax rates. The homestead exemption in Montgomery County is almost non-existent. The County, Hospital District, and Woodlands Township have a 0% exemption. The CISD has a flat $15,000 exemption. The Lone Star College District has a 1% exemption.

Conversely, my City of Houston exemption is 20%, Harris County and hospital district is 20%, college district is 10%, and HISD is 20% plus $15,000. All told, my effective tax rate is 1.97%, while your effective rate is 2.49% (depending on MUD district), once the homestead exemptions are figured in on equally priced properties. For me, the difference is $1400 per year. If the Woodlands incorporates, the effective rate would go to 2.75%, upping my savings to $2100. The extra gas I burn driving from my house in the Heights to work (all highway miles) versus from the Woodlands to work (mostly suburban roads) is about 1 gallon daily. For me, that adds about $750 to $900 a year. Not to mention that I save $20,000 or more in realtor fees by not selling my current home in order to move to the Woodlands, and historically, Woodlands homes have appreciated 1 to 2% per year, while mine has appreciated about 8% per year since I've been here.

For several years I seriously considered moving to the Woodlands or to Montgomery County. I've done all of this math many times. While the overall lower value of homes in Montgomery County can offset some of the higher tax rates, other factors made it a net loser for me. I am glad I stayed where I am. Clearly, you are happy with your decision. Good for you. I simply post these numbers for those who are interested in real numbers over Woodlands boosterism.

[boounce]

You drive 60 miles daily. Assuming your smart car can somehow do that on one gallon, you will spend at least $900 per year. Now factor in depreciation on your vehicle at $4300 (.30 per mi). Since you don't take the hardy and avoid the tolls, you spend an extra 45 minutes of your time commuting every day. At $60 per hour, that's almost $11k in lost billing.

You are a freakin genious counselor!

[woolie]

Yes, but he has to account for the psychiatric bills associated with the mind-destroying, alienating experience of living in The Woodlands, versus the built-for-real-humans experience of The Heights. Can you put a price on sanity? I also didn't know that people in The Woodlands had 0 mile, 0 minute commutes.

[Pleak]

Yes, but he has to account for the psychiatric bills associated with the mind-destroying, alienating experience of living in The Woodlands, versus the built-for-real-humans experience of The Heights. Can you put a price on sanity? I also didn't know that people in The Woodlands had 0 mile, 0 minute commutes.

By chance, is your favorite band in the whole world Rush?

[samagon]

Yes, but he has to account for the psychiatric bills associated with the mind-destroying, alienating experience of living in The Woodlands, versus the built-for-real-humans experience of The Heights. Can you put a price on sanity? I also didn't know that people in The Woodlands had 0 mile, 0 minute commutes.

To be fair it's not like the Heights isn't without it's potential pitfalls (specifically on Yale street and White Oak Bayou)...

[RedScare]

You drive 60 miles daily. Assuming your smart car can somehow do that on one gallon, you will spend at least $900 per year. Now factor in depreciation on your vehicle at $4300 (.30 per mi). Since you don't take the hardy and avoid the tolls, you spend an extra 45 minutes of your time commuting every day. At $60 per hour, that's almost $11k in lost billing.

You are a freakin genious counselor!

Ah, nice try. But, you didn't read my post. I said that I use 1 gallon more of gas than I would if I drove to work from the Woodlands. I actually drive 38 miles each way to work, for a total of 76 miles daily. However, it is always against rush hour, so it is a relaxing 38-40 minute drive. And, because it is all highway driving, I get better mileage. In contrast, my friends who live in the newer sections of the Woodlands tell me it takes them 30 minutes or more to drive the 18-20 miles each way from the Woodlands. And, since much of it is spent in bumper to bumper traffic and at stoplights, they get much worse gas mileage.

So, using my vehicle's fuel efficiency (15 mpg city, 21 mpg highway), it takes me 17.1 gallons of gas to traverse 360 miles of highway per week (36 miles x twice daily x 5 days). If I lived in the back of the Woodlands, it would take me 12 gallons of gas to drive 180 miles weekly (18 x twice daily x 5 days). That adds up to 1 additional gallon of gas per day as my penalty for living in Houston. And, my commute is much more relaxing than hanging out on Research Forest or 242 during rush hour.

Just curious, what flavor IS that KoolAid that you're drinking up there?

[boounce]

So now you work somwhere in the middle (from the back of TW and the Heights) in that there is only a 15 mile discrepancy. You are changing your argument, but you are still wrong when factoring gas, vehicle depreciation, and time.

Now-- had you made the argument that most people don't accurately factor the cost of commuting FROM the woodlands, I would agree with you. But you are gulping more than koolaid if you think commuting from the Heights to TW actually saves you money.

[samagon]

There's a lot of good reasons to live in the woodlands, commute time to anywhere outside of the woodlands is the biggest enemy of any of those reasons.

[RedScare]

So now you work somwhere in the middle (from the back of TW and the Heights) in that there is only a 15 mile discrepancy. You are changing your argument, but you are still wrong when factoring gas, vehicle depreciation, and time.

Now-- had you made the argument that most people don't accurately factor the cost of commuting FROM the woodlands, I would agree with you. But you are gulping more than koolaid if you think commuting from the Heights to TW actually saves you money.

I'm struggling to keep from calling you a moron. I work in Conroe. The commute...door to door...is 36 miles. My friends who ALSO work in Conroe...but live in the Woodlands...claim it is about an 18 mile commute and takes them 30 minutes or more. Though I use an extra gallon of gas, it is more than made up in tax savings. The vehicle depreciation argument is a red herring. When I lived in the Woodlands, I put 21,000 miles per year on my vehicle, due to commute, and trips anywhere are 5 to 10 miles or more. Now, though I drive 360 miles per week in commuting distance, I rarely put more than 40 miles a week in non-commute driving, because everywhere I go is a couple of miles or less. The yearly mileage is the same. And, again, to sell my house in the Heights in order to move closer to work would cost me $23,000 to $24,000 in realtor fees. Yes, I am saving money by staying put.

Don't worry. There are plenty of people who do not do the math. They still think the Woodlands is worth it. Nothing I say will change that. But, I know far too much about the Woodlands from having lived there previously, having family there now, and having friends there, to think it is Shangri-la.

[woolie]

By chance, is your favorite band in the whole world Rush?

Not at all. I've been listening to Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger albums all day.

[woolie]

In my zip code. Single family and townhouses, between 200-500k, built in 1995 or newer.

A: 67

OP: 8

PS: 13

P: 15

Total: 103

Restricting to the approximate official boundaries of my neighborhood. (Doesn't allow as fine grained A/OP/PS/P as above.)

A: 26

OP: 3

PS: 16

Total: 45

Land area for 77004 = 6.1 square miles

Land area for midtown = about 1.4 square miles

For your property, way out on the edge of the Earth...

77381 and 77382:

A: 74 + 93 = 167

OP: 19 + 25 = 44

PS: 27 + 34 = 61

P: 27 + 44 = 71

Total: 147 + 196 = 343

Land area for 77381 = 14.2 square miles

Land area for 77382 = 5.9 square miles

[boounce]

Redscare--

You claimed the tax rates in TW were going up 70%, but now you claim 20%.

You believe communiting daily from the Heights to Conroe (12 miles north of TW), will make up for higher taxes you might pay in The Woodlands. You run this calculation in your brain often.

Everything is crystal clear now.

[boounce]

woolie--

Awesome! This is what I was looking for. Was the 1995 filter applied to TW zip codes too?

[RedScare]

It is clear that I made the right decision not to move to the Woodlands, regardless what it cost me in gasoline. You, however, appear to be exactly where you need to be. I understand your attraction to the Woodlands perfectly.

[woolie]

No, I didn't apply the 1995 filter to The Woodlands. I used it in midtown because many of the older properties are dilapidated structures listed for lot value.

I guess I should be less harsh on The Woodlands -- they at least TRY. But in the end that makes me want to hold them to a higher standard than Sugarland or Pearland or Cinco Ranch or whatever. Their little river thing is OK, and at least on a tiny little fraction of land they're doing the "New Urbanist" dance. I probably wouldn't click the bulldozer tool on this street, at least:

Screen Shot 2012-06-01 at 6.19.41 PM by wools, on Flickr

Update: these houses are actually a little less modest than I thought! Despite the traditional facades and narrow lots, they're about 4000sf, and 700k-1.2m.