Bubba Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 As of this post, Garden Ridge at 242 & 45 is fully engulfed in flames. Here is the live feed from ABC 13: KTRK ABC 13 Live Newsfeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 They report they went defensive on arrival so it must have taken off really quick. Guess they didn't have a automatic sprinkler system. I'll bet their next store does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmer Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 They report they went defensive on arrival so it must have taken off really quick. Guess they didn't have a automatic sprinkler system. I'll bet their next store does.The KHOU link in the first post says the local Fire Marshal said the store had sprinklers that were working correctly at the time of the last inspection, but the fire was too big for the sprinklers. If true, wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 The KHOU link in the first post says the local Fire Marshal said the store had sprinklers that were working correctly at the time of the last inspection, but the fire was too big for the sprinklers. If true, wow!If it was sprinkled it makes me wonder if the fire started on the roof? Wonder if they were having any work down? In which case sprinklers would not have helped. Otherwise even if the sprinklers were ineffective putting the fire out they would have at the very least controlled the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff8201 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Sprinkler heads have to take on so much heat before the fusible link or bulb breaks. I'm guessing the heads were pretty high up in a store like this and the fire may have spread significantly near the floor before setting even the first one off. They are designed to keep the fire from spreading, however if it was already able to, or was intentionally set and planned, that's another story.And there's no real true way to test them until they actually go off. Visual inspections and flow tests are pretty good indicators and are important to do, but can only get you so far.Also unless it's a high rise building, the pressure supplied to the sprinkler system is usually only city water pressure(no dedicated fire pump until a pumper truck arrives and hooks to the FDC)... the more heads that go off, the less pressure per head. Once a fire gets that big and out of control, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 They make quick response heads and if the system was properly designed it would have easily handled the fire. I smell a lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 i hope no one was hurt. plenty of fuel for a fire though. so much junk packed in those stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 They make quick response heads and if the system was properly designed it would have easily handled the fire. I smell a lawsuit.Exactly. Sprinkler systems are not poorly engineered systems installed by landscape contractors. They are well researched and engineered. The heads are designed for various heights and temperatures. If this system was functional and did not perform, a lawsuit can be expected. That lawsuit may include the engineering firm, if it did not design the system for the specific building and contents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Read on the local news that the Garden Ridge fire was ruled arson.http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/_Investigators_3-alarm_Garden_Ridge_Fire_Ruled_Arson__132207278.htmlBut arson by who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff8201 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Read on the local news that the Garden Ridge fire was ruled arson.http://www.kbtx.com/..._132207278.htmlBut arson by who?Probably the most likely suspect... an angry employee whom was recently terminated, or a very angry customer, although I think an employee is a better fit, similar to what happened at Gallery Furniture.Again regarding the sprinkler heads... it's not a perfect world, a well designed system can still have errors like incorrect heads for the height and popping temperature. Shipping errors occur, installer errors occur, and some things can be inspected over and over and caught years later. These things happens, I've seen these things happen on a variety of systems where life endangerment is not outside the realm of possibility (sprinkler systems included).However if I were a betting man, at this time I'd place my money on disgruntled employee who shut the valve to the sprinkler system prior to setting the fire, knowing any supervisory alarms sent to a monitoring company would have taken hours to get corrected if there was no one on staff with the know how to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Probably the most likely suspect... an angry employee whom was recently terminated, or a very angry customer, although I think an employee is a better fit, similar to what happened at Gallery Furniture.Again regarding the sprinkler heads... it's not a perfect world, a well designed system can still have errors like incorrect heads for the height and popping temperature. Shipping errors occur, installer errors occur, and some things can be inspected over and over and caught years later. These things happens, I've seen these things happen on a variety of systems where life endangerment is not outside the realm of possibility (sprinkler systems included).However if I were a betting man, at this time I'd place my money on disgruntled employee who shut the valve to the sprinkler system prior to setting the fire, knowing any supervisory alarms sent to a monitoring company would have taken hours to get corrected if there was no one on staff with the know how to check.I agree. Probably a former disgruntled employee who knew where the shut off valve was located. Would love to see the fire marshal's report . If the valve was closed it would have been obvious and immediately raised suspicion. That would certainly explain how the fire burned out of control. Even a poorly designed system should have at least contained the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmer Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If the water supply is interrupted doesn't it sound a local trouble? Isn't that a code requirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff8201 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If the water supply is interrupted doesn't it sound a local trouble? Isn't that a code requirement?In a highrise building it absolutely does. It should send an alert to the fire panel where a trained staff member would receive it and to a monitoring company. The Valve should have a tamper so when that valve handle is turned at all it sends that trouble alarm...Now in a Retail store like this, I'm not so sure. Is it a Valve with a tamper, or a simple OS&Y? And if it does have a tamper and sounds a trouble, are the employees including sales associates, cashiers and particularly managers trained in how to handle this? I still think if my theory pans out, that the closing of the main isolation valve and the actual starting of the fire happened in a very short time frame. Even if Trouble alarms went off all over the place, it wouldn't have been enough. If someone committed premeditated arson, they would most likely know a sprinkler system existed (look up, it's obvious) and that it would foil their attempt to destroy the building. It would be like barbecuing in a downpour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If the water supply is interrupted doesn't it sound a local trouble? Isn't that a code requirement?Depends on the system. The fire code allows control valves in some systems to be secured with only a chain and lock. It would depend on the type of fire alarm system they have in place to determine if there were tamper switches that actually sent a signal. Even then it would only be a trouble signal which a lot of people tend to ignore. Especially if the fire panel is located in a closed room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff8201 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Depends on the system. The fire code allows control valves in some systems to be secured with only a chain and lock. It would depend on the type of fire alarm system they have in place to determine if there were tamper switches that actually sent a signal. Even then it would only be a trouble signal which a lot of people tend to ignore. Especially if the fire panel is located in a closed room.Isn't a chain an lock system just a workaround when an OS&Y valve isn't present? The Outside Stem and Yoke valve gives you an instant visual verification that the valve is open, but if you only have a traditional gate valve, that valve ideally needs to be replaced. If replacement requires a massive shutdown (which in our case a few years ago it would have, affecting the entire block and more than just our building) then the Fire Marshall MAY let you work around it by making sure the valve is open by turning it CCW till it stops, and then chain and locking it so it cannot be turned by anyone not in possession of the key (or a good set of bolt cutters).I can see some potential heavy code enforcement and code rewrites in the future pending the outcome of this investigation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Isn't a chain an lock system just a workaround when an OS&Y valve isn't present? The Outside Stem and Yoke valve gives you an instant visual verification that the valve is open, but if you only have a traditional gate valve, that valve ideally needs to be replaced. If replacement requires a massive shutdown (which in our case a few years ago it would have, affecting the entire block and more than just our building) then the Fire Marshall MAY let you work around it by making sure the valve is open by turning it CCW till it stops, and then chain and locking it so it cannot be turned by anyone not in possession of the key (or a good set of bolt cutters).I can see some potential heavy code enforcement and code rewrites in the future pending the outcome of this investigation...Again I have no idea what kind of system they had or if they even had an OS&Y valve or another type like a Post Indicator Valve (PIV). They could have even had interior sectional valves that would allow them to close off just one area. I can't wait for the official report but I'm sure that won't come our until after the trial. (If it goes to court). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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