The Heights Historic Districts

[CleaningLadyinCleveland]

You're preaching to a largely deaf choir. I've tried to explain to the locals, with little success.

They're incapable of learning.

I, too, come from an area where preservation of homes was so honored that being the President of the Preservation & Restoration Society came with a very high social status. Preservation was not remodeling the kitchen to have granite counter tops and slap some paint on it - but to actually restore the buildings to their original state ( i.e. by using gas torches to remove the old paint off to the bare wood, finding original light fixtures, stained and leaded glass windows, sinks etc.) These buildings were built in the 1700's & 1800's (and early 1900's) with great care, detail, to last a long time, with great materials, attention to detail and designed by architects (including Frank Lloyd Wright). I understand that bungalows have some historic value (I live in one), but if they are falling apart due to not being maintained properly, too costly to restore (due to previous owners neglect) or does not have any significant architectural merits how is that in relation to historic...? ...it's more like run down.

A few years ago someone (from an historic organization that I won't mention) was taking pictures of the house next door to me and said to me that the owner did a great job of restoring and preserving the house. I thought that was odd to say as only the front of the house looked the same - it was built out on the back to add a larger kitchen, living room and master bedroom/bat- gutted it and added every modern convenience to it. (it's a great house - I love it). I think some people in Houston Heights confuse the words "restoration" and "remodeling". Not that I am against either one - it's a personal choice for your own home and for a homeowner to make and have a voice in the community about - not the government's sole decision.

Oh and that house - the modern Victorian on 22nd at Harvard...I had heard it was a modern interpretation of the Cooley mansion (rebuilt on the SE corner of Heights & 18th.)

Edited June 18, 2010 by CleaningLadyinCleveland

[AtticaFlinch]

I too come form an area where preservation of homes was so honored that being the President of the Preservation & Restoration Society came with a very high social status. Preservation was not remodeling the kitchen to have granite countertops and slap some paint on it - but to actually restore the buildings to their original state ( i.e. by gas torching the old paint off to the bare wood, finding original light fixtures, stained and leaded glass windows, sinks etc.) These buildings were built in the 1700's & 1800's (and early 1900's) with great care, detail, to last a long time, with great materials, attention to detail and designed by architects (including Frank Lloyd Wright). I understand that bungalows have some historic value (I live in one), but if they are falling apart due to not being maintained properly, too costly to restore (due to previous owners neglect) or does not have any significant architectural merits how is that in relation to historic...? ...more like run down.

Not to mention, a poorly-built woodframe house is a bit tough to get sentimental about. It's not just that Houstonians are a bunch of troglodytes who aren't concerned with their history. Just because it's old doesn't mean it needs to be preserved. An area like the Heights needs to judge these on a case by case basis. Or better yet, let the owner of the house decide.

[Marksmu]

You're preaching to a largely deaf choir. I've tried to explain to the locals, with little success.

They're incapable of learning.

Nobody is incapable of learning, but what people do not want is some idealist with impracticable ideals telling them what they can and can not do with the single largest investment in their life....I think that is what these preservationist, dont seem to get. Half of them dont own a historic home, and are just trying to keep new builds out so their property values stay low....the other half - those who do own a historic home, seem to think that because they enjoy something, and really love it, and want it to stay just the way they like that everyone else should too. They are a loud minority trying to cram their beliefs down everyone elses throats...they dont care about the repercussions to others, because it is what they want. You dont get to decide what I get to do with what I own, because its not what you want - I dont care what you want. its not your property - you have no say if there are no deed restrictions. You dont get to change the rules later because you are not winning. If you want to live in deed restricted areas, do so, but don't come here and try to change the rules in the middle of the game.

But, thats the great part about America - you get to do what you want with your own property, and if others dont like it, they can either buy it from you, or you can tell them to sod off. I own a rental property that is in one of these districts, and I can guarantee that when the time comes to bring it down, (its not a historic home of any value) if some stupid preservationist or city ordinance trys to stop me, I will bulldoze it on a Sunday and within an hour of dropping the equipment off. The house, the rubbel, and the equipment will be gone as fast as it showed up. Ill say I have no idea who did it, but I am sure glad they did!

Will I get a ticket, or something for not doing it up to code? Probably so, Ill play dumb, they will slap me on the wrist with some $1000 fine or something and I will build the largest monstrosity you have ever seen just to piss em off. If they wont permit the monstrosity because some preservationist does not like the design I will turn the lot into the largest eye sore the heights as ever seen. Ill park old cars there, and let people put their boats there for storage....Ill put up a sign that says why I am doing what I am doing, and Ill circulate petitions and buy more lots to do the same thing until the ordinance is repealed. I think a bunch of junk inside a large see through chainlink fence with a couple big ugly dogs and hundreds of stray cats is great for property value. I would probably even dump daily bags of dog/cat food to attract more possums, coons, and cats.

If I can afford it, I can do it. Thats the great thing about a capitalist society. The person who can afford to do things he wants to do, gets to do them. If you dont like it, you can either pony up, or shut up.

[jgriff]

You're preaching to a largely deaf choir. I've tried to explain to the locals, with little success.

They're incapable of learning.

What a terrible attitude. Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is incapable of learning?

[Tiko]

Oh and that house - the modern Victorian on 22nd at Harvard...I had heard it was a modern interpretation of the Cooley mansion (rebuilt on the SE corner of Heights & 18th.)

Pretty sure it was based on the original house on the NE corner of Harvard and 18th.

[TheNiche]

What a terrible attitude. Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is incapable of learning?

Of course he doesn't. In person, he's an interesting and thoughtful guy--not at all aggressive or unlikeable--that has complimented me on at least communicating thoughts and ideas unambiguously so that whether he agrees with me or not, at least there's a basis for personal respect. This instance reminds me of one of George Carlin's bits, that the extent to which a person is a jackass is proportional to their distance from you at the time that you take notice of that particular flaw. ...and the text-based format of HAIF imposes quite a bit more distance than is actually the case.

EDIT: But yeah, to be clear, bigtex's and marksmu's comments were both asinine.

Edited June 18, 2010 by TheNiche

[kat_zor]

Just got this email (not sure if this is new to y'all or not):

From: Thorp, Laura - CNL [mailto:Laura.Thorp@houstontx.gov]

Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:15 AM

Subject: Ordinance Changes, Summary of Changes, Public Meeting Notice

The information has now been posted.

Draft of Ordinance

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/HistoricPres/hist_pres.html

Summary of Changes

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/HistoricPres/docs_pdfs/HPO_SummaryAmend.pdf

Public Meeting Notice

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/HistoricPres/docs_pdfs/HPO_publicnotice_20100719.pdf

[SCDesign]

The Mayor released the proposed new guidelines for the Historic Districts. The key points are:

1) The petition process will be eliminated. Now property owners can fill out a card if they support becoming a Historic District. The Historic Commission reserves the right to name historic districts.

2) Changes to the definitions of what falls under the Commissions approval requirements including material

3) New construction must comply with compatibility guidlines

4)Expand the reasons for applying for a certificate of appropriateness.

5) Eliminate the 90 waiver for demo and new construciton

I'll try to get the pdf online so that those interested can read the actual text.

[OutfieldDan]

The Mayor released the proposed new guidelines for the Historic Districts. The key points are:

1) The petition process will be eliminated. Now property owners can fill out a card if they support becoming a Historic District. The Historic Commission reserves the right to name historic districts.

2) Changes to the definitions of what falls under the Commissions approval requirements including material

3) New construction must comply with compatibility guidlines

4)Expand the reasons for applying for a certificate of appropriateness.

5) Eliminate the 90 waiver for demo and new construciton

I'll try to get the pdf online so that those interested can read the actual text.

No petitions, just a mayor appointed board to name historic districts? No process to canvas the neighborhood for discovery?

Expand the reasons for applying for the Commission's approvals? Does the Mayor mean paint color, or maybe [in practice] the resident's race, income, religion, etc., etc.

Race, prejudice: THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT, ADMIT IT. At least that's the pratical consequence of this disaster.

Do you think a modest income Hispanic neighbor will want to apply to a stupid Commission for permission to put up a fountain somewhere on their property? For that matter, how about anyone of modest means who may want to change something on their home? This historical district movement is absolutely disgusting.

Sounds like fascism to me.

[TheNiche]

Sounds like fascism to me.

It sounds like suburbia, frankly. BORING!

[RedScare]

No petitions, just a mayor appointed board to name historic districts? No process to canvas the neighborhood for discovery?

Expand the reasons for applying for the Commission's approvals? Does the Mayor mean paint color, or maybe [in practice] the resident's race, income, religion, etc., etc.

Sounds like fascism to me.

Yes, since the self-anointed arbiters of taste and history have decided that the process of actually getting their neighbors to agree that a neighborhood should be designated historic is too much work, they are changing the rule to ONE PERSON living in the neighborhood may start the application process. No collective wish of the neighbors, no sense of community...one person starts it, and the rest get a postcard.

[chester77008]

Yes, since the self-anointed arbiters of taste and history have decided that the process of actually getting their neighbors to agree that a neighborhood should be designated historic is too much work, they are changing the rule to ONE PERSON living in the neighborhood may start the application process. No collective wish of the neighbors, no sense of community...one person starts it, and the rest get a postcard.

You make a valid point. Not only can one person start it, the HAHC can also start it. In my mind thats the same as 0 (zero) home owners starting it.

I am still curious as to why home owners in support of the historic district designation dont organize Minimum Lot Size for their block, and or create deed restrictions for their own homes. I believe a home owner in the Heights can very easily record their own deed restriction on their individual property, I have seen these recorded in the past and I believe it is a very simple process. Granted they are only valid for 20 years but that is long enough in my book.

Given that only 53% of the Heights is considered historic according to the HAHC, if this same 53% individualy filed deed restrictions on their own properties the problem would be solved. Those properties could not be demolished, turned into McMansions, or whatever else they want to write into their own restriction.

Problem solved, no money spent by the tax payers and no headaches.

[TheNiche]

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

[SCDesign]

If you are in the one of the Historic Districts and signed the petition but are against these changes please sign the signature recision form. Also, show up at one of these meetings and SPEAK becuase unless there is a HUGE outcry in opposition this will go through without any kind of re-petition. At this point they say they will do a mailed ballot if there is enough opposition. The catch is going to be that they will only count the ballots that are returned so there must be a huge outcry in opposition to get the ballot and there must be an even larger response via ballot.

Read the ordinance! Everyone seems to think that this onle affects future work and older homes, but if you own a recently constructed home you will have to submit plans for Certificates of Appropriateness to change the paint color of your home, build a new fence and even repair your house after a storm! This ordinance makes everything visible from the street subject to oversight from the HAHC regardless of whether the house is considered historic or not.

[Marksmu]

If you are in the one of the Historic Districts and signed the petition but are against these changes please sign the signature recision form. Also, show up at one of these meetings and SPEAK becuase unless there is a HUGE outcry in opposition this will go through without any kind of re-petition. At this point they say they will do a mailed ballot if there is enough opposition. The catch is going to be that they will only count the ballots that are returned so there must be a huge outcry in opposition to get the ballot and there must be an even larger response via ballot.

Read the ordinance! Everyone seems to think that this onle affects future work and older homes, but if you own a recently constructed home you will have to submit plans for Certificates of Appropriateness to change the paint color of your home, build a new fence and even repair your house after a storm! This ordinance makes everything visible from the street subject to oversight from the HAHC regardless of whether the house is considered historic or not.

Where is this signature rescission form? I did not sign the petition but the person who owned the home before me did. I now own it, so I should have the power to retract any damage done by the previous owner.

This is a huge power grab, its sickening. I am thinking of making yard signs that look identical to the historic district signs, that read:

Stop snobby neighbors

Say no to Government intrusion on Private Property Rights.

Say no to Historic Districts

[OutfieldDan]

If you are in the one of the Historic Districts and signed the petition but are against these changes please sign the signature recision form. Also, show up at one of these meetings and SPEAK becuase unless there is a HUGE outcry in opposition this will go through without any kind of re-petition. At this point they say they will do a mailed ballot if there is enough opposition. The catch is going to be that they will only count the ballots that are returned so there must be a huge outcry in opposition to get the ballot and there must be an even larger response via ballot.

Read the ordinance! Everyone seems to think that this onle affects future work and older homes, but if you own a recently constructed home you will have to submit plans for Certificates of Appropriateness to change the paint color of your home, build a new fence and even repair your house after a storm! This ordinance makes everything visible from the street subject to oversight from the HAHC regardless of whether the house is considered historic or not.

I read the ordinance and I'm shocked that the HAHC has so much authority over how we even maintain our homes. The restrictions being considered go far beyond the deed restrictions we have now. There is language that the HAHC can require maintenance if they decide that the property has fallen into "...disrepair so as to result in the deterioration of any exterior architectural feature." That means that it is within their subjective authority to tell us when to paint our homes, etc "No person shall conduct any mandatory repair of a landmark, protected landmark, or of a building, structure or object within an historic district or archaeological site without a certificate of appropriateness."

If you care about our neighborhood and want to stop this movement to impose HAHC authority over your decisions concerning your property, please come to the public comment meetings and speak up.

I stand by my earlier post that the proposed amendments are designed to run off modest income families. It is snobbery, elitism and racism we have to fight, as well as our freedom and property rights.

Edited July 26, 2010 by OutfieldDan

[SCDesign]

Where is this signature rescission form? I did not sign the petition but the person who owned the home before me did. I now own it, so I should have the power to retract any damage done by the previous owner.

This is a huge power grab, its sickening. I am thinking of making yard signs that look identical to the historic district signs, that read:

Stop snobby neighbors

Say no to Government intrusion on Private Property Rights.

Say no to Historic Districts

You can get one at Boulivard Realty on Heights Blvd, or Susan Anderson at 11th. I'll see if I can get a scanned one to post. Also, if you want a sign you can get on at Boulivard Realty, there are a couple of hundred that we are trying to get out.

[20thStDad]

I read the ordinance and I'm shocked that the HAHC has so much authority over how we even maintain our homes. The restrictions being considered go far beyond the deed restrictions we have now. There is language that the HAHC can require maintenance if they decide that the property has fallen into "...disrepair so as to result in the deterioration of any exterior architectural feature." That means that it is within their subjective authority to tell us when to paint our homes, etc "No person shall conduct any mandatory repair of a landmark, protected landmark, or of a building, structure or object within an historic district or archaeological site without a certificate of appropriateness."

If you care about our neighborhood and want to stop this movement to impose HAHC authority over your decisions concerning your property, please come to the public comment meetings and speak up.

I stand by my earlier post that the proposed amendments are designed to run off modest income families. It is snobbery, elitism and racism we have to fight, as well as our freedom and property rights.

"Certificate of appropriateness" - what a joke. Too many people have this mythical notion of the Heights. It's too late for this to work the way the historic district freaks want it to. Something like this should have been put in place 75 years ago to have their desired effect, because at this point the definition of "appropriate" has a world of difference from one house to the next, not even one block to the next. Why don't they just open up a fascist hardware store and sell Heights-approved fencing, paint colors, and plants. I just don't understand the oxymoron, this is the utmost attempt at control, and when I think of Heights residents someone who responds well to that doesn't come to mind.

[little frau]

So what happens if someone in one of these districts does NOT get the certificate and instead, just goes ahead and paints their house whatever color they want?

If it's not an approved color, and the HAHC does not like it, then who pays to have it repainted??

[AtticaFlinch]

So what happens if someone in one of these districts does NOT get the certificate and instead, just goes ahead and paints their house whatever color they want?

If it's not an approved color, and the HAHC does not like it, then who pays to have it repainted??

I imagine it would work like an HOA and the owner would be responsible for all the costs.

[20thStDad]

I imagine it would work like an HOA and the owner would be responsible for all the costs.

What true enforcement do they have? What if someone just says no, and also refuses to pay a fine or something?

[AtticaFlinch]

What true enforcement do they have? What if someone just says no, and also refuses to pay a fine or something?

HOAs can sue for breach of contract, as you have to sign one of those contracts when you move into a neighborhood with an existing HOA. I have no idea how this historic district thing would work since it would not only affect new residents. If someone opted not to sign a contract, and because that wasn't a condition upon moving into the neighborhood, it would seem that civil courts wouldn't have much say in this. Perhaps criminal fines (or jail time) could be levied. I don't know. It all sounds so draconian that way, and I think this is yet another one of those ideas that sounds better on paper but falls apart with the details.

[SCDesign]

In the district you have to have a CoA to get a permit issued by the City. Working without a permit in the City can result in a fine of $2,000 per day. The enforcement would be through Planning Department Inspection Division which has about 20 inspectors whose sole job is to find unpermitted work. Normally they will put up a "Stop Work" order on your property and give you the chance to get a permit. If you continue working without a permit the fines will start to add up. Eventually it will result in a lien on the property for the amount of fine which will be collected when the structure is sold.

[20thStDad]

Ok so fines and liens, that's what I figured.

I'm assuming that if this passes they still can't force people to change what is already on their property, it would only affect new work. What does it accomplish then? If something gets built it has to be some kind of neo-craftsman? Meanwhile, the old codger who lets vegetation grow up to where you can't see how dilapidated his house has become continues to be a worse problem, IMO.

[little frau]

There is a homeowner in my neighborhood who is having an outbuilding built, like a little cottage behind the house. There is no permit for it, according to the COH permits web site.

Would one of these 20 inspectors be interested in this?? The homeowner is well aware of the requirements, having run into problems in the past with putting up a new structure. This particular home has an unusually large lot for the neighborhood.

Or, are certain sized buildings exempt from permitting?

Also, in my original question, I was talking about changing the outside paint color. Is there a permit required for this?

[Marksmu]

You can get one at Boulivard Realty on Heights Blvd, or Susan Anderson at 11th. I'll see if I can get a scanned one to post. Also, if you want a sign you can get on at Boulivard Realty, there are a couple of hundred that we are trying to get out.

What do the yard signs at Boulivard say? I'm really looking for something that will really upset the snobby historic folks.

[Marksmu]

In the district you have to have a CoA to get a permit issued by the City. Working without a permit in the City can result in a fine of $2,000 per day. The enforcement would be through Planning Department Inspection Division which has about 20 inspectors whose sole job is to find unpermitted work. Normally they will put up a "Stop Work" order on your property and give you the chance to get a permit. If you continue working without a permit the fines will start to add up. Eventually it will result in a lien on the property for the amount of fine which will be collected when the structure is sold.

If you start and finish a job without getting caught, I don't think (key word think) that they can make you undo what you have completed even if they find out. I believe they can only make you stop what you are doing or try to issue a fine. It would be mighty hard for them to prove that you changed something without proof if it having been the other way.

I would tell any inspector who came by that he was trespassing and that he needed a warrant to enter. I would love to see him come back with a warrant.

[SCDesign]

I like hte idea of making them get a warrant. I wonder if that would work with HCAD appraisers. You can only really get into trouble if they catch you building without a permit, once it is finished they would have a pretty hard time proving that it wasn't there before. As for a neighbor building something without a permit there are certian things you can build without one and an outbuilding or storage shed that wasn't living space, under, I believe it's 140 sq.ft, wouldn't need one. I heard that the City will actually pay a reward if you turn someone in that is working without a permit but that could very well be a rumor. You do't typically need a permit to paint your house but in the Historic Distric under the new ordinance you would. I think there will be a thriving business in weekend painting and contracting in the future.

[SCDesign]

What do the yard signs at Boulivard say? I'm really looking for something that will really upset the snobby historic folks.

Sorry, it's not really offensive. It jst says "Yes to Preservation, No to (something)" and gives a list of why it's bad. It's something though, and if we can get a number of them up and down a street we may have an impact. BTW, the South Heights District does not appear to be on the Council Adgenda for this week so if enough people go to the meetings and protest there may still be a chance to keep it from being adopted right away. I don't know what good it does to delay it but I guess that as long as it isn't officially voted as a District there is always the chance of stopping it from happening.

[AtticaFlinch]

I heard that the City will actually pay a reward if you turn someone in that is working without a permit but that could very well be a rumor.

Bahahaha!

I really hope the Walmart gets built now. It may be the only thing that can prevent the Heights from becoming a police state.

I may go join the pro-Walmart Facebook page now.