Small plane crashed in to building

[EMME]

My friend summed it up thusly and I fully agree, but would add...classic narcissist.  

my guess at this guys narrative.

probably back in the 80's he gets with some people to b*&^h about the tax code.

they find an inconsistancy and decide to try to apply it to themselves.

he gets hard headed about it, becomes somewhat obsessed and drives friends and family crazy.

all during this time, life keeps happening with all it's assorted crap.

the irs has consistently rejected his application of the tax code.

over the years interest, penalties, and enforcement actions pile up.

then we have the crash, bailout and recession. the irs steps up it's enforcement and collection actions across the board. (i believe the budget increase is something like 50%)

the goofball is on the verge of losing his family and all his stuff because of the recession and the irs.

he comes unhinged and wins bonehead of the month.

[marmer]

I'm guessing EMME has hit the nail on the head. I would add to that perhaps (in reading between the lines of his "manifesto") he wasn't the easiest person to work with and this may have contributed to his multiple small-business/consulting failures.

[Marksmu]

My friend summed it up thusly and I fully agree, but would add...classic narcissist. 

my guess at this guys narrative.

probably back in the 80's he gets with some people to b*&^h about the tax code.

they find an inconsistancy and decide to try to apply it to themselves.

he gets hard headed about it, becomes somewhat obsessed and drives friends and family crazy.

all during this time, life keeps happening with all it's assorted crap.

the irs has consistently rejected his application of the tax code.

over the years interest, penalties, and enforcement actions pile up.

then we have the crash, bailout and recession. the irs steps up it's enforcement and collection actions across the board. (i believe the budget increase is something like 50%)

the goofball is on the verge of losing his family and all his stuff because of the recession and the irs.

he comes unhinged and wins bonehead of the month.

I think that pretty well sums it up....He went crazy thinking he could change the world and make the IRS pay, and the only people who are going to end up paying for his actions are the poor family of the IRS agent he killed, and his family, as they spend the rest of their life trying to dig out of the financial hole he left them in the bottom of. Its not a good situation for anyone.

As to his motives, if anyone has ever spent any time actually dealing with the IRS, it is a very frustrating, unpleasant experience. The IRS, at the level this guy likely dealt with, is chalk full of idiots with no desire to really help you or hear you out...whose sole job is to make you pay what someone higher up told them to get from you. You can plead your case to them all day long, and all they do is play solitaire while you sit there talking to them. When you are done talking they repeat their initial response and then tell you the ways that they can make your life miserable if you do not pay.

I was audited when I was in college because I took summer school one year and did not work, so I filed a very small return. The previous year, following HS graduation, I had worked part time as a waiter, and actually made pretty decent money for a college bound kid. That next year I started college and then took summer school first year to get some pre-req's done....filed a return with nothing but UGMA gains....got audited.

The IRS agents I dealt (4 different ones) with were so unpleasant it made you want to crawl over the desk and strangle them. They got enjoyment thinking that in my head I was plotting revenge, that I would never carry out. It took me nearly 2 months, several office visits, a CPA, and a hearing in front of 3 agents to prove to them I did not work that year. My previous employer never even filed hours for me...they just thought I was pocketing cash tips and not reporting any income and that I was in cahoots with the restaurant, who they allege did not want to pay the employment taxes on me (Restaurant was Gradys American Grill, they closed up but were essentially a Chilis...owned by Chilis)

They acted like I was hiding things b/c I did not keep pay stubs, or anything else from the time periods I was not working...it was a very very frustrating time, and you do feel powerless. You are essentially talking to a wall. The person has nothing to say and does not want to help you. To them, they did not mess up, you are a criminal and they are just trying to prove it. If they cant prove it...its not that you did not do it, its just that they did not find it, or could not prove it.

You leave the IRS feeling incredibly powerless, and like they just put your life through the ringer because they felt like it. And I wont even get started on the estimated taxes ballgame....I dont think there is a CPA in the world who can tell you what your really need to pay to avoid penalties especially in down times when you do not want to use the 110% safe haven because you are making less. Its very frustrating.

That rant of mine, in no way is intended to be any justification at all for doing anything that would hurt another person...but I can certainly see how he felt powerless and like his country was turning on him. In his mind, deluded as it is, he had been paying taxes in excess of what he though most people paid, and for all that money he was sending he felt that the government was using it against him to get more from him. He went crazy with that delusion and it all came crashing down.

[Fringe]

EMME definitely nailed it.  I have felt the same way about Comcast in the past but not quite strong enough to pilot a plane into their offices.  Perhaps if I had kept there service for a couple of more years. 

[EMME]

I think that pretty well sums it up....He went crazy thinking he could change the world and make the IRS pay, and the only people who are going to end up paying for his actions are the poor family of the IRS agent he killed, and his family, as they spend the rest of their life trying to dig out of the financial hole he left them in the bottom of. Its not a good situation for anyone.

As to his motives, if anyone has ever spent any time actually dealing with the IRS, it is a very frustrating, unpleasant experience. The IRS, at the level this guy likely dealt with, is chalk full of idiots with no desire to really help you or hear you out...whose sole job is to make you pay what someone higher up told them to get from you. You can plead your case to them all day long, and all they do is play solitaire while you sit there talking to them. When you are done talking they repeat their initial response and then tell you the ways that they can make your life miserable if you do not pay.

I was audited when I was in college because I took summer school one year and did not work, so I filed a very small return. The previous year, following HS graduation, I had worked part time as a waiter, and actually made pretty decent money for a college bound kid. That next year I started college and then took summer school first year to get some pre-req's done....filed a return with nothing but UGMA gains....got audited.

The IRS agents I dealt (4 different ones) with were so unpleasant it made you want to crawl over the desk and strangle them. They got enjoyment thinking that in my head I was plotting revenge, that I would never carry out. It took me nearly 2 months, several office visits, a CPA, and a hearing in front of 3 agents to prove to them I did not work that year. My previous employer never even filed hours for me...they just thought I was pocketing cash tips and not reporting any income and that I was in cahoots with the restaurant, who they allege did not want to pay the employment taxes on me (Restaurant was Gradys American Grill, they closed up but were essentially a Chilis...owned by Chilis)

They acted like I was hiding things b/c I did not keep pay stubs, or anything else from the time periods I was not working...it was a very very frustrating time, and you do feel powerless. You are essentially talking to a wall. The person has nothing to say and does not want to help you. To them, they did not mess up, you are a criminal and they are just trying to prove it. If they cant prove it...its not that you did not do it, its just that they did not find it, or could not prove it.

You leave the IRS feeling incredibly powerless, and like they just put your life through the ringer because they felt like it. And I wont even get started on the estimated taxes ballgame....I dont think there is a CPA in the world who can tell you what your really need to pay to avoid penalties especially in down times when you do not want to use the 110% safe haven because you are making less. Its very frustrating.

That rant of mine, in no way is intended to be any justification at all for doing anything that would hurt another person...but I can certainly see how he felt powerless and like his country was turning on him. In his mind, deluded as it is, he had been paying taxes in excess of what he though most people paid, and for all that money he was sending he felt that the government was using it against him to get more from him. He went crazy with that delusion and it all came crashing down.

HA... my friend that I quoted is in the middle of dealings with IRS on several years worth of audits. So while he condemns Stack's actions, he does believe the IRS should be audited for their heavy handed tactics. But he believed that before Stack's actions. Stack didn't tell anybody anything that wasn't already known. He just killed a father of six to lay blame for his own failings. Thank God it wasn't more.

One other point...I understand feeling powerless in the types of situations that MARKSMU refers to, but this guy didn't want to pay any taxes. His beef was that he didn't want withholding taxes withheld. Withholding taxes would actually have saved him money rather than doing the quarterly taxes, unless you don't plan on paying quarterly taxes. So the necessity of his dealings with the IRS were all self created.

[Fringe]

Joe Stack: Antitax 'terrorist' or solo IRS-hater?

[EMME]

Joe Stack: Antitax 'terrorist' or solo IRS-hater?

Anti-Tax, IRS hating Lone Wolf Terrorist.

Narcissistic...not ill or unbalanced. Methodical and manipulative. I know mentally ill, I know despressed, I know narcissistic. This one was narcissistic. Didn't take responsibility for one thing being his fault. Blamed others for everything and left his family further in debt than they were evidently about to be. Total disregard for others' wellbeing and without empathy. Whole different thing. These are the Timothy McVeighs, UniBombers, David Koresh, Eric Rudollph. Smart. but no feelings. His imperfections were about to show and that was more than he could take...not all his other ramblings. so he chose to try to cover them up in a "grand manner" and linked it in his selfish little mind to nobility.

[RedScare]

I don't think he so much thought he could change the world as believed he could outsmart it. When his scheme failed, he came unglued...twice. His 1986 troubles apparently involved a group of people who attempted to skirt the new rules on employee/independent contractor status by using the rules that applied to churches. The IRS denied the exemption, and he spent 10 years trying to get it back. The 'last straw' appears to be an audit that found $12,700 in unreported income. While the rest of us would have simply paid the taxes and penalties owed on the unreported income (even he admitted he owed it), Stack apparently decided that this was a conspiracy by the IRS and his CPA to defraud him of money he already admits he owed. The last incident makes it look like he had decided to check out, and merely decided to take his enemies with him. This makes Stack much less a martyr or victim, and more like many of the other mass murder/suicide types that we have seen over the last several years. You simply cannot claim victim status for the IRS asking for money you admit you owe, without being mentally unstable.

EDIT: I should qualify 'mentally unstable' as unstable in the sociopathic sense, or thinking people 'owed' him, not traditional mental disease or defect.

[ricco67]

Looks like the conspiracy nuts are now hunting for something to believe in.

http://

Apparently, they're starting to cling on the fact that fire equipment happen to be across the street proves that this was a planned event.

Idiots.

Edit: I'm among those I guess, I can't even embed anymore. she mentions the equipment at 3:00

[TheNiche]

Anti-Tax, IRS hating Lone Wolf Terrorist.

Narcissistic...not ill or unbalanced. Methodical and manipulative. I know mentally ill, I know despressed, I know narcissistic. This one was narcissistic. Didn't take responsibility for one thing being his fault. Blamed others for everything and left his family further in debt than they were evidently about to be. Total disregard for others' wellbeing and without empathy. Whole different thing. These are the Timothy McVeighs, UniBombers, David Koresh, Eric Rudollph. Smart. but no feelings. His imperfections were about to show and that was more than he could take...not all his other ramblings. so he chose to try to cover them up in a "grand manner" and linked it in his selfish little mind to nobility.

I agree with your analysis (it actually sounds pretty familiar from back on post #17), except that mental illness, depression, and narcissism are by no means mutually exclusive to one another. And in Joe Stack's case, certainly all three were at work.

Also, his psychological pathology differs from the guys you used as examples in that he had not developed a cogent system of beliefs, nor was he either a part of a movement or trying to start one himself. This would seem to indicate that he was more self-conflicted, in truth, than conflicted with others or with society. From his "manifesto", I'd tend to believe that he might have wanted to see himself as conflicted with society because he perceived that as more dignified, however that and the destruction that he brought to bear was just a half-assed attempt to rationalize the suicide to himself.