All aboard for commuter rail

[ricco67]

I think BRT would be a good solution.

I 45 will eventually upgraded and an HOV or BRT line could be added, until then they can use HWy 3 can be used until it can jump on the current HOV system.

The service level can be adjusted depending on usage, special events, season, or evacuation.

Then again, we may have brought this up two or three pages ago.

[totheskies]

Ultimately, it needs to be a rail connection, but BRT would be a great idea in the shortrun. But the rail line would be independent of vehicle traffic, which IMO is the most important advantage of "rapid" commuter service.

[Trae]

Ultimately, it needs to be a rail connection, but BRT would be a great idea in the shortrun. But the rail line would be independent of vehicle traffic, which IMO is the most important advantage of "rapid" commuter service.

Yep. It'll be like riding Greyhound to Galveston if the BRT is just another bus on the road. Maybe if it had it's own ROW. This is why I think just adding in commuter rail is better.

[ricco67]

Yep. It'll be like riding Greyhound to Galveston if the BRT is just another bus on the road. Maybe if it had it's own ROW. This is why I think just adding in commuter rail is better.

BRTs, from what I understand usually have their own ROW. There is plenty of room on one side of HW3 to do one, but the bottleneck would be going over the causeway and into the HOV. It can be a relatively cheap solution while trying to show ridership numbers so a full fledged one can eventually be constructed.

Of course, the way things are made, I'll be 6ft in the ground for a number of years before THAT phase would come into being.

[IronTiger]

I think that rail would be a good solution for Galveston. It's not just an idyllic wish I have, I did add weight to it.

- I still have very little faith in BRT. I fail to see how we need BRT if we already have park-and-ride and regular ol' HOV lanes. Besides, buses can only go so fast.

- Tourists tend to prefer trains over buses. If it's relatively cheap, Galveston could feed off the tourist business from tourist. I've never been on vacation in Houston or Galveston on the same trip. Linking it with a train would be a bonus to tourists. "Buy Houston, get Galveston for FREE!". However, it all depends on cost.

- The BRT, in its ideal state, requires infrastructure of its own (a separate ROW). And considering the I-45 construction on the bridge (was it completed?), it leaves really no room for a separate BRT. Unless it added an HOV lane, in which case it could have a "T" style intersection as seen on 290's HOV. Still, far from ideal.

- Of course, if railroad is chosen, there'd still be a bottleneck anyway. I have no idea how many ships and trains go at the drawbridge, and we don't want a passenger rail to gum up the process.

- Secondly, if it is to provide tourist integration it would go deep into downtown, which is quite far away from Galveston. The only efficient way to get it near the light rail is rebuild a section of rail in downtown (it's parallel to Allen Rd. and goes in a "U" down to the main lines) abandoned in the late 1990s or early 2000s.

I really don't know.

[samagon]

I think that rail would be a good solution for Galveston. It's not just an idyllic wish I have, I did add weight to it.

You should add special events to that list.

I can tell you that Mardi Gras would be considered more accessible if you could park somewhere downtown, ride a train.

Skipping traffic, parking, car being vandalized, getting pulled over on i45.

And it would be useful for more than Mardi Gras, you've got spring break, that bike festival, and the crazy frat party as events that I could easily see wanting to bypass the issues of driving to Galveston.

Would more people be inclined to go to the Galveston Air Show? What about Dickens on the Strand? What about just going to the beach for a day and not wanting to drive home?

Not to mention that I'm sure the cruise lines would have some buses ready to transport people from the train station to the cruise terminal. And people that are cruising who decide to take some extra vacation time in Galveston, they could be inclined to ride the train into Houston and take the red line down to the museums, or a park (already mentioned).

[N Judah]

Commuter rail to galveston would be nice. I am reminded of the thread posted by the guy whose girlfriend needed the fastest route from Hwy6-Westheimer to UTMB-Galveston. Since he did not specify the mode of transit, I decided to see what the commute would be like via bus. Unfortunately it turns out there is no direct route from downtown to galveston, but if there were commuter rail in place I think his girlfriend could make her entire trip in about an hour.

[kylejack]

Any bus line to Galveston would be nice. Currently the only uncontroversial way to get my bicycle to Galveston is to pay a taxi to transport me over, and those molesters want like 40 bucks for a 2 mile drive. Riding a bike across the causeway is of questionable legality. I say questionable because TDOT tells me "go for it, totally legal" and the Galveston Sheriff's Department says "we will arrest you if we catch you."

[IronTiger]

Any bus line to Galveston would be nice. Currently the only uncontroversial way to get my bicycle to Galveston is to pay a taxi to transport me over, and those molesters want like 40 bucks for a 2 mile drive. Riding a bike across the causeway is of questionable legality. I say questionable because TDOT tells me "go for it, totally legal" and the Galveston Sheriff's Department says "we will arrest you if we catch you."

Surely you don't mean the Interstate, right? That's illegal, unless your bike can reach speeds upwards of 55 MPH.

Or were you talking about the narrow service road directly paralleling the railroad?

(it apparently used to be the original road causeway)

[TheNiche]

Commuter rail to galveston would be nice. I am reminded of the thread posted by the guy whose girlfriend needed the fastest route from Hwy6-Westheimer to UTMB-Galveston. Since he did not specify the mode of transit, I decided to see what the commute would be like via bus. Unfortunately it turns out there is no direct route from downtown to galveston, but if there were commuter rail in place I think his girlfriend could make her entire trip in about an hour.

Let's say that there were commuter rail extending westward from the Hillcroft Transit Center, the terminus of the future University Line. Actually, to avoid a lengthy transfer at Hillcroft TC, let's assume that this section of commuter rail is just been light rail technology with higher levels of grade separation and fewer stops per distance traveled. And let's have commuter rail extending from the future downtown intermodal center to downtown Galveston. I'm not going to assume that our commuter rail is going to be some super-fancy TGV-like technology, or Maglev, because you know that's just not going to happen here.

0:00 - Leave the house

0:07 - The person, not quite within walking distance, drives to the commuter rail station, parks, pays the fee, and gets to the platform, allowing themselves a five-minute margin of error so that they don't accidentally miss the train.

0:12 - In-bound train arrives

0:13 - In-bound train departs

0:28 - Assuming three one-minute stops over eleven miles and an average speed of 55mph (including acceleration and deceleration), the person arrives at the University Line light rail at this point in time.

0:56 - Assuming an average light rail speed of 19mph (including acceleration, deceleration, and stops), starting at the Hillcroft Transit Center, and nine miles to the Wheeler Transit Center, this is when the person arrives

0:59 - Waits at transfer; northbound Red Line LRT vehicle departs

1:05 - 19mph for two miles to the downtown intermodal center

1:15 - Waits at transfer; commuter rail departs en-route to Galveston

2:12 - Assume 6 one-minute stops over 55 miles and an average speed of 65 mph (including acceleration and deceleration), arrives at the railroad museum in downtown Galveston

2:20 - Waits for transfer; Island Transit departs en route to UTMB

2:26 - Island Transit arrives at UTMB

*DISCLAIMER* For lack of access to good technology where I happen to be right now, I pulled distances and average speeds mostly out of my ass. I think that they're reasonable, but they may actually be slightly higher or lower; hopefully the errors average out alright.

------------

If I had to make that commute, I'd definitely consider transit in this case. It takes a little longer than a commute by car, but that's time that I can still be productive. On the other hand, if the commuter rail doesn't run with great frequency or isn't always on time, or if I couldn't be absolutely certain of when I'd be able to get off of work (as has been the case with every job I've ever held) so as to make the scheduled train departures, then the auto commute would likely still be preferable.

And of course, this analysis favors commuter rail inherently because we're assuming that commuter rail (or something akin to it) would serve this particular person's neighborhood within a reasonably close proximity. Not too many neighborhoods in our region have the potential to be so convenient to transit, requiring that the initial leg of the trip be much longer, and possibly out of the way.

[N Judah]

Well best case scenario for that person would be if there were a 228/229 equivalent from downtown to Galveston. There actually is, but it stops at Baybrook Mall, and Island Transit picks up at Mall of the Mainland. Maybe they can combine the two.

However, I do think tourists would still prefer a train.

[TheNiche]

Well best case scenario for that person would be if there were a 228/229 equivalent from downtown to Galveston. There actually is, but it stops at Baybrook Mall, and Island Transit picks up at Mall of the Mainland. Maybe they can combine the two.

However, I do think tourists would still prefer a train.

You know, I think that METRO's Airport Direct service is a successful model that ought to be enhanced. It ought to go back and forth between IAH, the Downtown TC, Hobby Airport, and downtown Galveston. All of those destinations are critical for tourists, and are conveniently along the same corridor. With increased bus frequency and vastly improved publicity, perhaps with Island Transit chipping in for some of the costs, I think that this could be a very successful route that could be implemented immediately with very low start-up capital.

...of course, we'd have to get various regional entities to pull their heads out of their collective asses in order to work together. That could be difficult for numerous reasons, some interpersonal, others legislative.

[N Judah]

Airport direct is too expensive. If I were a tourist I wouldn't take it anywhere even if it were cheaper. If I were a commuter I'd rather have an express bus or rail. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

[TheNiche]

Airport direct is too expensive.

Explain how Airport Direct is more expensive than commuter rail (mile for mile, of course).

If I were a tourist I wouldn't take it anywhere even if it were cheaper.

Well that statement certainly isn't very informative. Why not?

If I were a commuter I'd rather have an express bus or rail.

If I were a commuter, I'd rather have a Maglev system in a vast network of depressurized transparent elevated tubes (theoretical top speeds of 4,000 mph), with express routes to dozens of destinations throughout the region, and with service to each of these destinations from each of the others at five-minute intervals or less.

[samagon]

If I were a commuter, I'd rather have a Maglev system in a vast network of depressurized transparent elevated tubes (theoretical top speeds of 4,000 mph), with express routes to dozens of destinations throughout the region, and with service to each of these destinations from each of the others at five-minute intervals or less.

Why oh why doesn't this topic have it's own thread???

Who do we have to push for funding of such a program?

What I wouldn't give for a 4000mph trip from Houston to Galveston!

[N Judah]

Agreed, it wasn't listed as one of the four options at the open house meeting. Anyone who wanted Maglev trains should have brought it up then.

Airport direct: $15 for 20 miles, so from downtown to Galveston would be about $30. I would not pay $60 a day for a commute. Are you kidding?

[TheNiche]

Agreed, it wasn't listed as one of the four options at the open house meeting. Anyone who wanted Maglev trains should have brought it up then.

Airport direct: $15 for 20 miles, so from downtown to Galveston would be about $30. I would not pay $60 a day for a commute. Are you kidding?

I don't think that the commuter market is what METRO has in mind with the Airport Direct business model. That's what they have P&R for. With the tourists, they're competing primarily with taxis, and to that end METRO can engage in price discrimination. A fee of $45 to get to Galveston ain't that bad considering that that'll only get you as far as downtown in a taxi.

[AtticaFlinch]

I don't think that the commuter market is what METRO has in mind with the Airport Direct business model. That's what they have P&R for. With the tourists, they're competing primarily with taxis, and to that end METRO can engage in price discrimination. A fee of $45 to get to Galveston ain't that bad considering that that'll only get you as far as downtown in a taxi.

Do you not find it odd there are no private companies already competing for the Houston/Galveston shuttle service? A quick google search turned up limo services, but no express shuttle service (not tied to a hotel or cruise line).

[TheNiche]

Do you not find it odd there are no private companies already competing for the Houston/Galveston shuttle service? A quick google search turned up limo services, but no express shuttle service (not tied to a hotel or cruise line).

No, not in the least. Private-sector fare-based transportation is highly regulated by the City of Houston and does not usually make sense.

[N Judah]

Well then there needs to be more competition. For only $10 more I can go from Galveston to Austin in a Greyhound -- a much better place to spend tourist dollars. For a day trip or quick jaunt a $5-$10 trip via commuter rail will attract more tourists than $45 each way.

At any rate I say get tourists and commuters both with commuter rail. To the people who attend these open houses: please keep us updated.

[T 2 THA C]

It would be nice to take a yrain to Galveston for thr weekend.

[20thStDad]

TC, why is there an apostrophe in your signature?

[plumber2]

Do you not find it odd there are no private companies already competing for the Houston/Galveston shuttle service? A quick google search turned up limo services, but no express shuttle service (not tied to a hotel or cruise line).

The limo service listed in the google search, Galveston Limosine Service, is not actually a limosine in the sense of a stretched-out caddy. It is really just a Dodge van.

[T 2 THA C]

TC, why is there an apostrophe in your signature?

Just like the way it looked, also Should urs be updatted to say "Dnt Twitter"

[312]

Why oh why doesn't this topic have it's own thread???

I would like for it to have its own thread as well. I was actually looking for it when I found your post. Are there any approved plans to have lt.rail service between Galveston and Houston ?

[citykid09]

Metro inches ahead on rail for Fort Bend

Board OKs environmental studies for 8.2-mile line in U.S. 90A corridor

By MIKE SNYDER

HOUSTON CHRONICLE

March 18, 2010, 9:38PM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6920215.html