Massive Internet Outages Headed Our Way?

[houstonmacbro]

This just in:

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20081219/twl-m...ge-1be00ca.html

http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/...e-internet.html

Terrorism?

[lockmat]

This just in:

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20081219/twl-m...ge-1be00ca.html

http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/...e-internet.html

Terrorism?

I'm guessing they bury these, even if they are at very deep places, right?

I just find it very interesting to know there are cables at the bottom of our seas. So simple yet such a big deal. Maybe I'm just easily intrigued.

[BryanS]

Sounds like it is mostly effecting the Middle East. Let them fix their own problems.

[memebag]

I'm guessing they bury these, even if they are at very deep places, right?

I just find it very interesting to know there are cables at the bottom of our seas. So simple yet such a big deal. Maybe I'm just easily intrigued.

They are only buried in very shallow water with lots of traffic. Otherwise, they are exposed.

There have been cables crossing the earth's oceans since 1858. Most cuts aren't newsworthy.

[lockmat]

They are only buried in very shallow water with lots of traffic. Otherwise, they are exposed.

There have been cables crossing the earth's oceans since 1858. Most cuts aren't newsworthy.

Wow, that's amazing. Just think of how big that spool was!

[houstonmacbro]

Sounds like it is mostly effecting the Middle East. Let them fix their own problems.

The Internet is global. What affects other countries may, and sometimes does, affect us.

[editor]

Wow, that's amazing. Just think of how big that spool was!

Many spools. They join them as they're laid. I saw a really interesting documentary about it on TV at one time. It's strange to think that you can stand on a beach in England and yank on a wire that has its other end in India.

[lockmat]

Many spools. They join them as they're laid. I saw a really interesting documentary about it on TV at one time. It's strange to think that you can stand on a beach in England and yank on a wire that has its other end in India.

lol, that would be cool to see a cable on the beach going into the water.

Yeah, I was thinking it might be more than one, but wow...that's still a lot of spools.

[TexasVines]

cable laying ship

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/cable/cable1.html

[lockmat]

cable laying ship

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/cable/cable1.html

Cool, thanks for that.

It seems some parts of the ocean are so deep that there's no way they can get down there bury it. Also, what about that...what is it called...the area in the middle of the Atlantic that has magma coming out of it, pushing the two plates away from eachother. I wonder how they protect the cables from that.

Also, I wonder if there is at least one or a few cables that go all the way around the earth with no disconnections?

[20thStDad]

Cool, thanks for that.

It seems some parts of the ocean are so deep that there's no way they can get down there bury it. Also, what about that...what is it called...the area in the middle of the Atlantic that has magma coming out of it, pushing the two plates away from eachother. I wonder how they protect the cables from that.

There isn't exposed magma across the entire fault line, only at certain areas. Hopefully they avoided the hot spots.

How thick are these cable? I would imagine when they drop one they might as well include several lines for different uses while they're at it. Will satellites eventually negate the need for these anyway? I would think so. I can imagine everything except power transmission going completely wireless in the next 100 years. Maybe even power transmission, who knows.

[TexasVines]

There isn't exposed magma across the entire fault line, only at certain areas. Hopefully they avoided the hot spots.

How thick are these cable? I would imagine when they drop one they might as well include several lines for different uses while they're at it. Will satellites eventually negate the need for these anyway? I would think so. I can imagine everything except power transmission going completely wireless in the next 100 years. Maybe even power transmission, who knows.

satellites will not work because of the latency aspect......satellites work well for things that can be streamed one directionally for the most part like TV, but when it goes two directions it is like talking on a ship to shore or a repeater phone where there is a delay and you have to say "over"

this is why sattelite TV has a delay when you change channels because there is the delay of the upstream and the downstream communications VS once you are on the channel the picture comes in steady until you change the channel again....this is also why Dishnetwork and Direct TV are behind the radio if you ever try and listen to the radio broadcast and watch a football game

or if you have ever watched a news feed on sat it is usually pixilated (to save cost) and there is a delay between the question ask and the answer and the reporters often stumble over each other

there is really no technology to over come the speed of radio waves VS electric or light impulses over a wire or optic especially with SAT distances involved

[editor]

There isn't exposed magma across the entire fault line, only at certain areas. Hopefully they avoided the hot spots.

How thick are these cable? I would imagine when they drop one they might as well include several lines for different uses while they're at it. Will satellites eventually negate the need for these anyway? I would think so. I can imagine everything except power transmission going completely wireless in the next 100 years. Maybe even power transmission, who knows.

From what I've read, the current generation of undersea cables are only two inches thick. Here's a diagram.

Google's having a cable laid right now from Los Angeles direct do Japan. (Press release)

Lots of cool maps and information here.

Another map:

Another map:

[20thStDad]

From what I've read, the current generation of undersea cables are only two inches thick. Here's a diagram.

Google's having a cable laid right now from Los Angeles direct do Japan. (Press release)

Lots of cool maps and information here.

Another map:

Another map:

I don't know why, but I am in awe of those diagrams. That's just cool. Do pirates ever go after the lines? If I was a terrorist I might.

[TexasVines]

I don't know why, but I am in awe of those diagrams. That's just cool. Do pirates ever go after the lines? If I was a terrorist I might.

way too deep in the exposed areas and I doubt there are commonly available maps of any exposed runs in shallower areas (shallow being less than 100' deep) and really there is no economics in it from a "hostage" stand point....too much equipment and skill required to access the cables and way too difficult to know whose cable you are a threat to.....and if you damage it they can just come in and fix it and you can't sit there and guard it without the risk of being blown away

[editor]

way too deep in the exposed areas and I doubt there are commonly available maps of any exposed runs in shallower areas (shallow being less than 100' deep) and really there is no economics in it from a "hostage" stand point....too much equipment and skill required to access the cables and way too difficult to know whose cable you are a threat to.....and if you damage it they can just come in and fix it and you can't sit there and guard it without the risk of being blown away

It doesn't take any specialized equipment. Most cable cuts are caused by ships dragging their anchors across the bottom of the ocean floor. In some countries (like England) the exact location where the cables go out to sea in shallow water is well known because they are tourist attractions, with signs and sometimes little museums.

But I think you might be right about the economics -- the places where a terrorist could access a cable are shallow enough to be repaired pretty cheaply, and traffic could be routed to satellites and other cables in the meantime. Doesn't really put the "terror" in terrorist.

[memebag]

TV is right about satellite latency (but not about the channel change delay, since there's no "upstream" involved there.) I remember my first direct experience of this. We had a data connection from Houston to Australia. Sometimes it was carried over the cable, other times it was on satellite. You always knew when it was satellite because it took 10 to 20 seconds for the remote system to echo what you typed.

[TexasVines]

TV is right about satellite latency (but not about the channel change delay, since there's no "upstream" involved there.) I remember my first direct experience of this. We had a data connection from Houston to Australia. Sometimes it was carried over the cable, other times it was on satellite. You always knew when it was satellite because it took 10 to 20 seconds for the remote system to echo what you typed.

actually you are right it is not "upstream" it is needing to tune that channel and wait for the info to come in.......upstream would be on satellite internet which is why most satellite internet has the upstream on a phone line and can get away with it because upstream is much less info usually than downstream

It doesn't take any specialized equipment. Most cable cuts are caused by ships dragging their anchors across the bottom of the ocean floor. In some countries (like England) the exact location where the cables go out to sea in shallow water is well known because they are tourist attractions, with signs and sometimes little museums.

But I think you might be right about the economics -- the places where a terrorist could access a cable are shallow enough to be repaired pretty cheaply, and traffic could be routed to satellites and other cables in the meantime. Doesn't really put the "terror" in terrorist.

I do know that ships dragging anchor is an issue, but again calling cable and wireless and saying we are going to send out a ship to drag anchor until we hit your cable is not a very good method of terror and would probably result in you being caught or blown up before you actually find their cable and it would still take a large ship to drag anchor like that

but yes they could be damaged on purpose, but for now I think we agree terrorist and pirates have much better methods to make their money