Could it really come to this?

[Daniepwils]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27244465/

[Vertigo58]

This is like the Seinfeld episode where Elaine stockpiled on a certain hygene product.

I admit stockpiling hair gel & hair spray of a certain product when I heard it was being discontinued. Heaven forbid a fire the cans will become projectiles. all of this for vanity of course.

[Native Son]

it already has come to this....nut bags hording food and bullets......remember Y2K...nut bags hording food and bullets

thanks for the FDIC, oh wait, I don't have any money anyway

[crunchtastic]

I think you'll see a lot more 'new survivalist' stuff popping up. Could be food hoarders, or the sustainable food/urban/suburban farmers, etc. I think that hard times can bring correction that is beneficial in some ways. But-- the great depression threw more than 1 in 4 people people out of work. There is some extreme overreaction going on here. LOl, I wonder how big the crowds will be at the new Costco. I it opens tomorrow I think. Attention, band-aid hoarders!!

There's also the traditional guns n ammo survivalist. My BF likes to view gun shows as a sociological field trip and a barometer of what's going on at the fringes. He went to the last couple of gun shows at the GRB and noticed those types were out in noticeably smaller numbers. He thinks that if bad times persist, or get worse, by the next round of gun shows you'll see the urban survivalists out again in force like they were around y2k and 9/11.

[Subdude]

There's always going to be a certain fringe of whack-jobs around, but it seems a bit of a stretch to paint it as a result of the economy. Must have been a slow news day...

[RedScare]

I don't think generally being prepared for adversity makes one a nutjob. Consider it insurance. However, when survivalist prep begins to consume all of one's spare time, or worse, homes are sold to move into the country, perhaps it has taken an unhealthy turn. On the other hand, there are those who have grown weary of the stress of city living, or worrying about their investments, etc. A return to nature may help that group cope.

Lucky for me, I can mask my nutjob survivalist tendencies as "hurricane preparation". Most will be none the wiser.

[crunchtastic]

Lucky for me, I can mask my nutjob survivalist tendencies as "hurricane preparation". Most will be none the wiser.

You're not fooling anyone. really.....any excuse to run around in your underwear with a saw!

[RedScare]

You're not fooling anyone. really.....any excuse to run around in your underwear with a saw!

Are you stalking me?

BTW, the full beard is growing out nicely.

[crunchtastic]

Are you stalking me?

BTW, the full beard is growing out nicely.

I guess with winter coming you'll be chopping fire wood in your bearskins.

[RedScare]

I guess with winter coming you'll be chopping fire wood in your bearskins.

Yep, I'll be out huntin' for griz.

EDIT: For those too young to know Bear Claw Grislap...

[TheNiche]

There's also the traditional guns n ammo survivalist. My BF likes to view gun shows as a sociological field trip and a barometer of what's going on at the fringes. He went to the last couple of gun shows at the GRB and noticed those types were out in noticeably smaller numbers. He thinks that if bad times persist, or get worse, by the next round of gun shows you'll see the urban survivalists out again in force like they were around y2k and 9/11.

I don't go to these very frequently--seems like only once every couple of years--but just so you're aware, the ones at the GRB are a different animal than the ones throughout most of the rest of Texas. GRB attracts a freakshow. Everywhere else, hunters and (to a lesser extent) collectors seem to dominate.

Personally, if I happen into a big lump of cash in the next several months, I'm going to use some of it stock up on the kinds of guns and gun paraphernalia that are most prone to getting banned by a Democrat-controlled federal government. If they're the same kinds of laws as from the Clinton years, I could make a decent bit of money...and certainly guns are at least a decent hedge on inflation while also being a safety net against catastrophic emergencies. Some percentage of everyone's investment portfolio should be in guns.

[crunchtastic]

Personally, if I happen into a big lump of cash in the next several months, I'm going to use some of it stock up on the kinds of guns and gun paraphernalia that are most prone to getting banned by a Democrat-controlled federal government. If they're the same kinds of laws as from the Clinton years, I could make a decent bit of money...and certainly guns are at least a decent hedge on inflation while also being a safety net against catastrophic emergencies. Some percentage of everyone's investment portfolio should be in guns.

I don't know about stocking up for resale, but we did just aquire a varmint rifle (free!) and and a 9mm to replace my favorite Browning hi-power lost in divorce. Mind you this is not the type of gun that will get banned by a dem govt. They haven't yet and they won't be. Now, if you need a trunk full of exploding bullets, that's a different story. Do you require sick ordnance, Niche?

And some percentage of everyone's investment should be in........ gold. Portable. Valuable just about anywhere on the planet.

[TexasVines]

gold is worthless

it provides none of the three basics humans require for survival: food, clothing, shelter

it also provides no source of energy, can't be made into a weapon (unless your defense plan is to drop/hurl heavy things on your attackers which I would argue stones or pieces of concrete or lead or anything else would do just as well) and what it can do which is conduct electricity can be done just as well by other more readily available metals

gold is a poor choice for any farm implement because it does not wear well and it is not good for any type or armor

if you had 5 bags of beans, some guns and ammo, some clothing, and shelter.......what one would you trade for a stupid hunk of metal...if your answer is anything, but none you will probably not survive long sitting naked, on a hot rock, hungry, curled up hugging your bar of gold with no way to defend it

gold only served in the past as a fiat during a time when many people could not do basic math or read and it was difficult to duplicate and rare enough to find that it could not flood the market and change the value of things rapidly.....in the basic sense it is no different than a precious stone (except it weights a great deal more) or fancy shells or carved rocks

food, shelter, clothing, defense, and energy are the only things that have real value along with the knowledge and ability and tools to provide any one of those and perhaps the knowledge to provide some health care as well....gold means nothing for any of those

fertile land and the ability to protect it and the energy methods to produce on it will be the only real things of value if things really go bad

even if things go really bad I do not see it over night I see it more as certain groups of people being further marginalized and other intelligent people finally coming to the realization that those people belong in an area where they feed on each other and get no help from others and are shot on site if they venture out of those areas...and eventually hopefully they will feed on each other to the point that they are gone and the people that produce for society can again live a safer existence.....kind of like escape from new york where you just wall in the trash and they fend for themselves and when they finally go away or wither down to nothing they can be finished off and the rest of us move on with a better life again

we have way too much knowledge to really end up at a mad max point of society because land will always have some productivity, the knowledge of wind and solar is there as is the ability to produce it, even crappy built homes can last a LONG time if maintained even halfassed....it will really come to a point where some grow tired of being invaded, attacked, stolen from and what they produce being stolen/redistributed to dead beats and thieves and they group up against the dead beats and their advocates and off them or put them in the useless areas of the country and deal with them accordingly or allow then to deal with each other

[crunchtastic]

gold is worthless

it provides none of the three basics humans require for survival: food, clothing, shelter

it also provides no source of energy, can't be made into a weapon (unless your defense plan is to drop/hurl heavy things on your attackers which I would argue stones or pieces of concrete or lead or anything else would do just as well) and what it can do which is conduct electricity can be done just as well by other more readily available metals

gold is a poor choice for any farm implement because it does not wear well and it is not good for any type or armor

if you had 5 bags of beans, some guns and ammo, some clothing, and shelter.......what one would you trade for a stupid hunk of metal...if your answer is anything, but none you will probably not survive long sitting naked, on a hot rock, hungry, curled up hugging your bar of gold with no way to defend it

gold only served in the past as a fiat during a time when many people could not do basic math or read and it was difficult to duplicate and rare enough to find that it could not flood the market and change the value of things rapidly.....in the basic sense it is no different than a precious stone (except it weights a great deal more) or fancy shells or carved rocks

food, shelter, clothing, defense, and energy are the only things that have real value along with the knowledge and ability and tools to provide any one of those and perhaps the knowledge to provide some health care as well....gold means nothing for any of those

fertile land and the ability to protect it and the energy methods to produce on it will be the only real things of value if things really go bad

even if things go really bad I do not see it over night I see it more as certain groups of people being further marginalized and other intelligent people finally coming to the realization that those people belong in an area where they feed on each other and get no help from others and are shot on site if they venture out of those areas...and eventually hopefully they will feed on each other to the point that they are gone and the people that produce for society can again live a safer existence.....kind of like escape from new york where you just wall in the trash and they fend for themselves and when they finally go away or wither down to nothing they can be finished off and the rest of us move on with a better life again

we have way too much knowledge to really end up at a mad max point of society because land will always have some productivity, the knowledge of wind and solar is there as is the ability to produce it, even crappy built homes can last a LONG time if maintained even halfassed....it will really come to a point where some grow tired of being invaded, attacked, stolen from and what they produce being stolen/redistributed to dead beats and thieves and they group up against the dead beats and their advocates and off them or put them in the useless areas of the country and deal with them accordingly or allow then to deal with each other

My dear ghost of James Joyce:

Gold is not worthless; it will probably be quite a while before it is. A little history is not a bad thing.

Some of your other points are very well-taken, though.

[TexasVines]

My dear ghost of James Joyce:

Gold is not worthless; it will probably be quite a while before it is. A little history is not a bad thing.

Some of your other points are very well-taken, though.

you are female so I know that puts you in a biased position for gold

but the problem is there is not enough of it to go around to make it a good method of barter and there is still a great deal of it that can be recovered from the ground if someone for some reason decided to spend the energy to do that instead of producing food, clothing, or shelter or weapons or other forms of energy that are sustainable.....the things that gold would be traded for if it was the fiat of exchange

if you had some barrels of gas/diesel and a machine shop and some copper and the other raw goods or a tractor some land and some seeds would you make a wind turbine or a hydro turbine or farm food or would you go out and dig up gold....I know for a fact I would not expend any of that for digging up gold....I would produce the end product that people really want.....not the method of exchange....especially if at the end of the day the method of exchange was heavy and good for nothing

we are a much more literate society with the ability to put values on dissimilar products easier now than in the past when gold was used.....and with not enough gold to really make an effective trade system something else like units of energy will surely step in to take the place of gold

[RedScare]

gold is worthless

it provides none of the three basics humans require for survival: food, clothing, shelter

Neither does booze or cigarettes, or cocaine, meth or marijuana for that matter, but history is replete with examples of their worth to the human population. With any of these products, I can barter for anything of value. This is not to say that stockpiling food and building shelter is not important, but a supply of booze and cigs will get me a lot of stuff.

[BryanS]

you are female so I know that puts you in a biased position for gold

but the problem is there is not enough of it to go around to make it a good method of barter and there is still a great deal of it that can be recovered from the ground if someone for some reason decided to spend the energy to do that instead of producing food, clothing, or shelter or weapons or other forms of energy that are sustainable.....the things that gold would be traded for if it was the fiat of exchange

if you had some barrels of gas/diesel and a machine shop and some copper and the other raw goods or a tractor some land and some seeds would you make a wind turbine or a hydro turbine or farm food or would you go out and dig up gold....I know for a fact I would not expend any of that for digging up gold....I would produce the end product that people really want.....not the method of exchange....especially if at the end of the day the method of exchange was heavy and good for nothing

we are a much more literate society with the ability to put values on dissimilar products easier now than in the past when gold was used.....and with not enough gold to really make an effective trade system something else like units of energy will surely step in to take the place of gold

I actually agree with you. You cannot eat gold. You cannot melt it down and put it into your gas tank. You cannot build a house out of it. You can only sell it... to someone else. That is all. To me, it is worthless because it has no functional value. I'd rather have a huge pile of 2x6 lumber vs. some small quantity of a useless metal.

[crunchtastic]

This is not to say that stockpiling food and building shelter is not important, but a supply of booze and cigs will get me a lot of stuff.

Me knocking on your door to borrow the saw, for starters.

If you're lucky I'll bring ice. Then you can just do the sawing for me.

Sorry, you started the Jeremiah Johnson thing.

[BryanS]

Neither does booze or cigarettes, or cocaine, meth or marijuana for that matter, but history is replete with examples of their worth to the human population. With any of these products, I can barter for anything of value. This is not to say that stockpiling food and building shelter is not important, but a supply of booze and cigs will get me a lot of stuff.

...I can see a trade for any of those items for one another... but gold for none of it...

[RedScare]

I actually agree with you. You cannot eat gold. You cannot melt it down and put it into your gas tank. You cannot build a house out of it. You can only sell it... to someone else. That is all. To me, it is worthless because it has no functional value. I'd rather have a huge pile of 2x6 lumber vs. some small quantity of a useless metal.

But, what if you have a pile of 2x6s, but what you REALLY need is a bathtub? What then? What if I have a bathtub that fits your needs, but I do not need 2x6s? How do you convince me to sell you the bathtub?

If you had some booze or cigs, or in the alternative, something with known value...gold...that I can trade, maybe we'd talk.

Me knocking on your door to borrow the saw, for starters.

If you're lucky I'll bring ice. Then you can just do the sawing for me.

Sorry, you started the Jeremiah Johnson thing.

Boy, if you had ice, that would be huge! Almost as big as dry land in Waterworld.

[TexasVines]

Neither does booze or cigarettes, or cocaine, meth or marijuana for that matter, but history is replete with examples of their worth to the human population. With any of these products, I can barter for anything of value. This is not to say that stockpiling food and building shelter is not important, but a supply of booze and cigs will get me a lot of stuff.

actually those things do provide something some humans value....pleasure and an escape form the every day, but with at least two if not three of them the person that craves them will eventually be in a position where their cravings will outstrip their ability to produce to acquire them (probably in a direct opposite relationship) and they will either have to cut back and produce or resort to taking which will get them tossed in with the other riffraff and set upon and put out of the rest of our misery....and probably booze in most forms will actually be more valuable as a source of portable long lasting potential energy than as a source of short term pleasure or escape and marijuana will have some value as a fuel from the seed oil and the cloth from fibers....or more likely the land where it is grown will hold the value since weed and hemp are different from one another though you can get fibers and seeds from weed and still have the buds left as well

gold does not provide an escape from anything unless you are one of the few that finds joy and an escape by hugging a bar of heavy metal

[crunchtastic]

Boy, if you had ice, that would be huge! Almost as big as dry land in Waterworld.

Not as huge as you admitting you watched that trainwreck of a movie.

I kid! If I had the means for ice, I'd cut you in. Even post-apocalypse, you never know when you'll need a lawyer.

And some rum.

[TexasVines]

Not as huge as you admitting you watched that trainwreck of a movie.

I kid! If I had the means for ice, I'd cut you in. Even post-apocalypse, you never know when you'll need a lawyer.

And some rum.

lawyers will be the first to go

I kid I kid

[RedScare]

Not as huge as you admitting you watched that trainwreck of a movie.

I kid! If I had the means for ice, I'd cut you in. Even post-apocalypse, you never know when you'll need a lawyer.

And some rum.

Oh, I've watched it at least a dozen times. One of my clients had a part in the movie. In all the dozen times I've watched it, I've never found her. She must be in the big crowd scene.

There seems to be a belief that commerce, substance abuse and vice would collapse with the economy. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It would merely revert to barter status. There is always a need for acceptable forms of currency. Gold fills that need, as would tobacco and alcohol. Petrol would as well. The apocolypse does not bring with it sobriety and chastity.

[crunchtastic]

The apocolypse does not bring with it sobriety and chastity.

Well, thank god for the little things, right?

[RedScare]

Well, thank god for the little things, right?

Oh yes. I look forward to it.