Let's Just Demolish Downtown & Start Over Uptown

[greystone08(returns)]

Just a crazy idea, but sometimes i drive thru downtown houston and see some depressed areas and how new hotels have their eyes on uptown and figure, " Maybe we should just call our uptown DOWNTOWN.

I mean that's where everybody wants to live. That's where most of the traffic in Houston snarles like in LA. This area has alot of things i think downtown Houston should have w/ the exception of metrorail and main st. Things like high quality shopping and more eateries.

But am i the only one who's thought of this? I know it sounds crazy and i know i might piss off alot of houstonians here but is it too late for dt? Everything touristy or from out of town seems to only want to associate itself with uptown. Go on the dallas forum where they talk about all the proposed hotels for uptown houston and how downtown's hotel's are in unstable condition? Even that new pavilion area mall type development that just got approved for uptown.

It just seems like uptown takes bolder strides to changing the face of the city than some of the things done in downtown, it feels as if they are two different cities. Don't come down on me too hard if i sound a little ignorant, i mean i am still relatively new in Houston, but i wanted to share with you all a thought that has crossed my mind. Any thoughts?

[jt16]

redevelopment of downtown is a relatively new idea. Uptown has a 10-15 year headstart. I wouldn't give up yet. Besides, approx. 150,000 people work downtown. That's a huge base to start with.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[largeTEXAS]

Downtown needs what Uptown has (shopping, people on weekends, tourists) and Uptown needs what downtown has (urban landscape, rail, sports venues, etc). It is frustrating that our "downtown" is divided into two centers. But, that's how the city guided by Gerald Hines evolved.

So, what to do next? Downtown either needs something big to spur retail and residential growth, or it needs time to evolve over time into more of a destination. It probably needs both. Downtown a few years ago looked like s%#t. It still does in a lot of ways, but now has some of the signs of a to-be thriving place - ie. lots of new condos and hotels, restaurants and bars. Although a lot of this stuff might be absolute crap, it still helps usher in another phase of development which will be much nicer.

See, downtowns go through 3 distinct phases before they should be considered "revitalized." The first phase (we're at the tail end of this) is where the city realizes something needs to change. An entity is set up and a plan is drawn. Bars and clubs move into and fix up decrepit old buildings. Then some residential moves in. After about 7 years, the bars and clubs are old news. They start dying and boutiques start moving in. This is phase 2. After a few years residents start moving in in increasing numbers and the boutiques multiply.

The final phase is when national companies like Banana Republic and Borders see there's money to be made and set up shop. They become anchors to the district. Much more retail and residential follow.

We still have a long way to go downtown. But, good things are happening. Corner bakery started construction yesterday, Topz is starting Monday. Sakowitz is going to be trendy clothing and the three blocks to the south are going to be a huge retail/entertainment facility. It's happening. Just be supportive to the new businesses that open and be optimistic.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[musicman]

Just be supportive to the new businesses that open and be optimistic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the last 2-3 years are any indication, we're in trouble. Retail continues to close downtown. The boot shop that has been open for over 50 years announced that they are closing. Most of the new restaurants that started 4 years ago are closed. Only good one still open is Mia Bella. And many of the places, quite frankly charge too much for a meal/drink. Most Houstonians just don't go downtown anymore. Since they started charging for parking on Saturdays, downtown is even more abandoned.

[largeTEXAS]

Yeah, the city needs to do something about the parking downtown. It's out of control. Saturdays should be free and street parking should be cheap. That'll help a lot. As for the restaurants, bars, and clubs closing - don't worry too much. The decent ones will stay open, just like in any other neighborhood. What we're finally seeing is the weeding out of the band-wagoners of downtown's initial resurgence. Personally, I would like to see more go. So many of the clubs and bars downtown are just there to make a quick buck. They're hardly ever open, and when they are, they aren't worth patronizing. Once retail stores start setting up shop we'll start to see more stability.

Downtown has a LONG way to go. I agree. Residential is probably the one key missing component. Until a few thousand more units are built and filled, downtown will continue to have trouble maintaining lots of restaurants. I personally think the city should look to give tax credits to developers wanting to build residential projects downtown. Let's get a critical mass down there who cares enough and whines enough so that stuff actually happens.

But, don't write off downtown. A lot is in store for the near future.

[KinkaidAlum]

I totally agree about the bars. It would be nice to see the Richmond Strip become the Richmond Strip again.

Downtown would be better served by having smaller neighborhoody type bars like Warrens Inn and LaCarafe mixed in with some of the nicer new bars. One or two clubs is all a downtown needs. The restaurants are fine in number and the few I have been to seem pretty good. I'd like to see some of the bars/clubs become retail spaces though.

Right now, I would wager to guess that one of the reasons there is such high turnover in the DT loft/condo market is because of the bar/club scene. I make a point of staying downtown when I come to town and staying at the new hotels (Icon, Sam, Magnolia, Ballpark) left me with little to NO desire to ever reside in downtown. It's simply too loud and too dirty. Additionally, it seems as if every time I come back, the crowd gets younger and cheesier. When I stayed at the Icon, it literally felt like drunk 20 year old girls were sitting on my bed yapping their traps off at 3 a.m. when they hit the streets after closing and I was on the 9th floor!

I couldn't imagine having to live in that.

[Trophy Property]

It's simply too loud and too dirty. Additionally, it seems as if every time I come back, the crowd gets younger and cheesier. When I stayed at the Icon, it literally felt like drunk 20 year old girls were sitting on my bed yapping their traps off at 3 a.m. when they hit the streets after closing and I was on the 9th floor!

I couldn't imagine having to live in that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The downtown bar area never took off with my group of friends. Admittedly we are a little older than most of the people going out downtown now. When the bars starting opening in 98 and 99 we used to make the journey down there to hit the bars about once or twice a month. What we found was that they were all the same. As time has gone on none of my peer group hits downtown anymore. We typically like smaller quaint places or we like restuarants that offer a nice atmoshpere.

I am not sure the people in downtown have gotten any younger as much as we have just gotten older. It amazes me that in the past 5-6 years I have gone from a person who needed to go out drinking two nights a week to a person that rarely goes out at all anymore. So the older I get and the more my priorities change the less likely I am going to be hitting any downtown clubs or bars until 3 in the morning.

But back on topic: Give downtown a chance. I am sure in time there will be an area of downtown that caters to the younger crowds and hipsters. With more residential growth there will be disctint neighborhoods within downtown. But like half the other posts have already said, this will take time.

[musicman]

I am not sure the people in downtown have gotten any younger as much as we have just gotten older.    It amazes me that in the past 5-6 years I have gone from a person who needed to go out drinking two nights a week to a person that rarely goes out at all anymore.    So the older I get and the more my priorities change the less likely I am going to be hitting any downtown clubs or bars until 3 in the morning. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Concur on the age thing. I still go out, however if there are teenyboppers at a place i stay clear. Many of the businesses HATE them because they leave no tip and have too much attitude. They become demanding and many times piss off regular customers.

I prefer to just go to the quiet places and chat with good friends listening to music.

[Guest danax]

If the last 2-3 years are any indication, we're in trouble.  Retail continues to close downtown.  The boot shop that has been open for over 50 years announced that they are closing.  Most of the new restaurants that started 4 years ago are closed.  Only good one still open is Mia Bella.  And many of the places, quite frankly charge too much for a meal/drink.  Most Houstonians just don't go downtown anymore.  Since they started charging for parking on Saturdays, downtown is even more abandoned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Retail is risky in transitional neighborhoods, and Downtown is one.

In a chicken and egg example, you've gotta have residents before retail. Residents can drive to buy something but businesses cannot drive to get customers. Downtown is still a new neighborhood, new for both residents and retail. Look at areas like Clinton Dr. on the Eastend and the warehouse district where there is a transition from industrial to residential and the retail is almost non-existent, for now anyway.

The "worst" that would happen would be demand would drop and prices too then new people and developers would rush in because it's just too cool a place to ever be strictly business again.

[LTAWACS]

this is where the Z word comes into play