Retail Secrets Revealed

[cottonmather0]

I have always thought they were pretty cool cars and rode in one for the first time just about a month back and it was kind of cool inside I thought....but my parents looked at one and just could not deal with the ride of a dodge neon with a heavier body on it

as for the way you negotiate.....you are probably tame compared to some...I had the foolish idea I would find the customers like you and just make a deal the way you want and work it like that and get some referrals.....but the vast majority of people that think like you walk on the lot and think a salesman like me was weak....not realizing even if I was weak the management is there to prevent weakness in anyone but a customer....so even trying to deal with straight up people turned into them stabbing me in the back in the box and me getting yelled at later on

if you even let the salesman start the 4 square (we did not actually use that method) then you have wasted your time.....if they were decent salesmen they were glad you tore up the paper or scribbled on it because then they could make the deal, get their "mini", move a unit, and get back on the floor to find another "up" to screw....but they did appreciate the unit moved out the door

it is the reason that cars will always be haggled on....because people demand it

Like I said, the only time I even talk to a salesman in person is for a used car because I have to see the car with my own eyes before I can make a bid for it and thus I have to change my gameplan a little bit. It's also fun to start out playing their little games and watch their eyes get wide when I start playing my own.

Nonetheless, I absolutely do not think that straight up salesmen are weak and I don't keep pushing once I get to where I want to go, which is predetermined before I walk onto the lot.

In fact, that's how I shop for new cars - I send a fax to the "internet" manager of all the dealers (some places it's just the same old "fleet manager") in the area with my email address and tell them I'm buying a car for cash in the next 3-5 days and ask them to send me their best price if they want my business. I'm always sure to include the names of ALL the other dealers on the fax and usually out of 15-20 faxes I'll get at least 4-5 responses.

I'll then get on the phone with the guys who responded (all the fax does is thin out the herd so I don't waste my time with the ones who won't play ball) and start comparing numbers and shopping and generally, depending on the make, get really close to invoice really fast. Eventually guys will either say that they can't beat it or they'll start trying to undercut by very small amounts ($10-20) and at that point I just go with whoever I think deserves my business - usually the guy who got closest to the bottom the fastest. On my truck I drive now (a 2006 Nissan Titan) I ended up buying from the very first guy who responded because he STARTED at $300 over invoice and it took me a week to get the three other guys to the same point. One guy even beat him by $100 when I told him I had already made a decision but by then I knew where the market price was and I wanted to reward the guy who cut through the crap the fastest.

I've "bought" 8 new cars this way for myself and friends and family and advised 3-5 other people who did it themselves. It sounds simple and it probably isn't as fabulous as I think it is, but generally speaking it works and those dealers will crawl all over each other trying to get it done. I figure the reason why is that it's very little upfront effort on their part so it saves their time for dealing with the bigger fish who walk in.

Saturn won't negotiate but most others will, especially Nissan, Honda, Chevy, and Dodge (ie my mom, which is why it stings so much).

Toyota will negotiate, too, (ie Scion) but its very hard to tell if you're getting a good deal relative to invoice since they have their institutionalized middleman system (ie the distributors, eg "Gulf States Toyota") and it's very hard to compare vehicles since the middleman markup is not public (what the distributor pays to Toyota is what's on Edmunds, but the dealer buys from the distributor, not from Toyota, and you can't buy from the distributor directly). Some (most) people who care enough to negotiate a good price on a car care about the invoice price, somewhat irrationally, so you can't tell how good an absolute deal you're getting, only how good it is relative to the other dealers, and that turns them off to buying a Toyota when there is a comparable Nissan or Honda that will give them the invoice price. I think Toyotas are good cars, and like our oil price discussion, the market price is theoretically independent of the cost, so I think that many people I help are turning down a better car out of principle when they refuse a Toyota. Toyota will still haggle a lot, you just don't know how much you're beating them up when you do.

I hope that makes sense...

[silverartfox]

About the previously-mentioned swapping out of broken eggs and worries about buying outdated ones...

Unless a grocery store has very few customers and a slow merchandise turnover, the entire stock of eggs in the cooler is sold and replenished every few days (if business is that slow, the store should close). According to recent research on food safety, eggs that are kept in their original carton in the refrigerator at home will remain fresh at least two weeks beyond the expiration date.

For anyone who is shopping for clothing - men's, women's, kid's...

My experience working for a large department store chain was an education in merchandising practices. For instance, fall and back-to-school clothing already started to arrive in Houston before July 4th. By mid-July, virtually all summer items will be picked over and marked down considerably. On Labor Day, fall and winter clothes will fill the racks - ridiculous for Texas, but a result of the rag trade being based in NYC for more than a century. Serious markdowns on cool-weather clothes will start in October to make room for incoming holiday and "early spring" (aka resort) lines. By December, shopping for particular items of winter clothing will be pretty much hit-or-miss. Spring and early summer clothing will arrive soon after the first of the year. Most of the summer stuff will be in stores by Memorial Day. Stores do receive shipments on a regular basis throughout the year, but the clothes may be for the season ahead and not the current one.

In many department stores, apparel may be on the sales floor at regular price for only a few days before receiving a first markdown - usually 25% - 30%. Major sales and seasonal clearances, sometimes with greater markdowns, are often scheduled in conjunction with holidays. Clothing markdowns are frequently completed and in a store's computer system a day or two before a major sale. It isn't unusual for a large chain to buy merchandise from one of their regular suppliers just for a sale ("special purchase"), or to transfer items that aren't selling in one part of the country to another where they will.

Like it or not, we can expect to see department store "Christmas Shops" opening in September. Some will even mark down Christmas merchandise from a week to a few days before Christmas Eve - a particular joy for ornament collectors.

Soooo, if you need to buy clothes to wear in Houston from now at least through November, or for next winter's cruise or tropical vacation, it's time to go shopping.

[TJones]

Crunch, DON'T buy for sticker. Talk to ME first. You know I will treat you right. <---typical carsalesman talk.

TV, I don't smoke, never have, THANK GOD !!! I always over do ANY vice.

You are 100% correct. If you are just a halfway decent looking woman, and can figure out that men are dumb as football bats when buying a car from a woman, because they let machismo and ego take over, they clean up. I make a very decent living at what I do, my job is a little different, I am an Internet Manager for a larger store in the area. I mainly handle Pre-owned. I have for the most part closed the deal, before they even arrive, using the computer to negotiate with them. As you can tell, my job is pretty easy, as I am sitting here typing to you guys now, whilest waiting for 2 deals to finish up in finance.

cotton, c'mon now, how many cars you gonna buy at one time for YOUR corporate event ?

[cottonmather0]

I am an Internet Manager for a larger store in the area. I mainly handle Pre-owned. I have for the most part closed the deal, before they even arrive, using the computer to negotiate with them. As you can tell, my job is pretty easy, as I am sitting here typing to you guys now, whilest waiting for 2 deals to finish up in finance.

Dollars to Donuts I bet we've at least spoken on the phone then.

[TJones]

Dollars to Donuts I bet we've at least spoken on the phone then.

I think i sold you your Nissan. Thanks for letting me make that extra $1000 to go on vacation with. I needed it, I had just bought that new motor for my streetrod and all, things were a little tight.

[cottonmather0]

Ehhhhh..... PM me with the name of your dealership, but I kind of doubt it.

[brerrabbit]

Well I worked at Steak and Ale many years ago and we had a few tricks. I waited tables and moved into bartending for a while so I saw a lot of things. Someone mentioned combining bottles of booze earlier but in my day that was strictly forbidden. Every bottle we had came with a TABC stamp on it to prove tax had been paid, as we emptied a bottle we had to make sure and scratch the label off so it could not be reused by someone going through the garbage. We even had TABC come in every so often and go through the bar garbage can to make sure we were taking them off. The other secret was that even when we were selling house drinks during happy hour on two for ones and charging $1.95 for gin and tonic, burbon and coke etc, we were still making good money. A quary bottle of the house Vodka cost us $2.50. Sell two drinks from the bottle and it was paid for. The other things we did were whenever we sold prime rib we would caution people that medium would still be very pink. Prime rib was more a roast than a steak and we explained that. We would bring it out and the people would yell and scream it was raw. Rather than throw it away we would take it bake to the kitchen and take the au jus we served with it and basically get a hot plate and dye the prime rib brown. The au jus came in pouches as a brown paste and when you mixed it with hot water it became au jus. We would tkae a little of the paste and rub it on both sides of the meat till it looked cooked. We would then take it back out and the customer would be happy and eat the same piece of meat we had brought out earlier after the dye job. Our margaritas and strawberry daquiri drinks were premade in gallon jugs. In a gallon plastic jugg there would be about three fingers of booze at the bottom and the rest was mixer. Whenever someone ordered a frozen margarita we would blend ice with the mix and blend it. There was next to no alcohol in those things and the profits were outragious because we charged something like three bucks for it.

[albertnurick]

Customers don't know that "Holdback" on a new car are NOT tangible funds that the dealer has. It is simply money put into an account to let the dealer order new replacement cars.

OK. The important thing to remember about car dealers is that "invoice price" is meaningless, no dealer pays invoice price for cars. They all pay considerably less.

[albertnurick]

TV, I think everything you just described about how the salesmen and managers in the car business can be applied to 90% of the businesses out there. It isn't reserved for the car dealers, sorry you had such a rotten experience. I've been in the car biz for 10 years, and have luckily escaped ALL the pitfalls you claim. If anything, functioning drunks and alcoholic managers would be more prevalant in the Restaurant industry, which I also managed in for 10 yrs.

Why can't you people just come in and buy for the sticker price. You don't negotiate a BigMac when you go to Mickey D's ?

Car dealerships are incredibly unethical. And it seems to be pretty much universal; I'm always amazed when I run across someone who's even reasonably ethical in one. And I've been buying cars for a long time.

That being said, once you understand the game, it can be a very entertaining experience. Let's be honest: If you're reasonably bright, you aren't going to be a car salesman, so once you learn their tricks you can thwart them and actually get a good deal on a car.

Pay sticker? LOL. Sticker price is a joke. I suppose you go to hotels and offer to pay rack rates for your room?

[albertnurick]

The secret is to be willing to shop and let the dealers compete amongst themselves and LET THEM KNOW that they are competing with other dealers. That's why buying a new car is easier (in my opinion) than a used car, because you know that the two dealerships are selling EXACTLY the same product (and if they're not, the differences are easily enumerated in a standard way).

The best deal I ever got on a car was when I bought a Honda Element a few years ago. Dealers had a LOT on the ground, so I simply spent half an hour on the phone, and spoke with a salesman at each dealership. I asked for his best price, and I told him that I was aware they had inventory, and so did everyone else, so the best price wins. Best that came back was $500 under invoice, so I told everyone that and asked 'em to sharpen their pencils and try again. Three were able to beat that price.

I ended up paying about $1000 under invoice, and spent a grand total of an hour and a half doing the deal.

[TheNiche]

OK. The important thing to remember about car dealers is that "invoice price" is meaningless, no dealer pays invoice price for cars. They all pay considerably less.

The only car I've ever bought, I used a personal contact (the dealer's lawyer) to buy at invoice price, no muss, no fuss. But I regret not shopping for financing first and haggling on that end. I probably got a good deal (aprox. 6% int., 5-yr.), but he wasn't in the room for that and I suspect that I could've done better.

Still, it seems that when the time comes to trade up--probably within a year--the best approach may be to send out 20 faxes to various dealers stating the non-negotiable terms: Make, Model, Year, Accessories, Down Payment, Term of Loan, Credit Score

And then just let them figure out what the price and interest rate offered will be so that the only number I have to look at is the monthly payment. Then play them off one another until I get the lowest number, close the deal.

Would that work?

[albertnurick]

1. Talk to your bank (heck, several banks) and see what you can get preapproved for on a car loan.

2. Nail down the price first, before you even think about monthly payments.

3. After you've got your price, and you know what you can do on a loan, then talk to the dealership's finance guy. If he can't beat it by a decent amount, go with the bank.

If you're really smart, you learn that you can often sweeten the deal if you'll agree to crappy financing. If the purchase price drops a bunch (and it can) do the deal. Then immediately go to your bank and refinance the car using the preapproved deal you made in step 1. In Texas, there is no prepayment penalty for auto loans, so it's 100% legal. Whether or not it's ethical is another thing entirely, but IMO it's just karma coming back on the auto dealer.

It's also great sport.

One more thing: Extended warranties.

On a vehicle, DO NOT buy them from the dealer. Huge markup. Google around, and you'll find some podunk dealer in a small town who will sell you the factory extended warranty (never, ever buy a third party warranty) for $50-100 over his cost. Normal markup is 100% or so, so you'll be saving a nice chunk of change.

[Bacchus]

At the risk of breaking hearts I have the following to share. I worked in the corporate office of Mr Gatti's Pizza for a period of time. The restaurant makes virtually all of its operating cash flow from its gaming section. There are huge free cash flow margins associated with a skee ball game that pays itself off in 3 months and lasts for 15 years. Anyways, the most interesting factoid I learned related to the "crane-grab" game. You've seen the game I'm talking about, where there is a glass box full of prizes and you operate a small crane to try to grab one of the prizes, pull it up and then deposit it into your chute. Well, the game is rigged. The tensile strength of the 'grabber' is only strong enough to pull up the prize on every X number of turns. So in other words, you could display the greatest skill in crane operatorship known to mankind, but unless you got lucky and put your money in on one of the predetermined strength settings, then the prize would drop right out of your grasp. Sorry kids.

[TJones]

At the risk of breaking hearts I have the following to share. I worked in the corporate office of Mr Gatti's Pizza for a period of time. The restaurant makes virtually all of its operating cash flow from its gaming section. There are huge free cash flow margins associated with a skee ball game that pays itself off in 3 months and lasts for 15 years. Anyways, the most interesting factoid I learned related to the "crane-grab" game. You've seen the game I'm talking about, where there is a glass box full of prizes and you operate a small crane to try to grab one of the prizes, pull it up and then deposit it into your chute. Well, the game is rigged. The tensile strength of the 'grabber' is only strong enough to pull up the prize on every X number of turns. So in other words, you could display the greatest skill in crane operatorship known to mankind, but unless you got lucky and put your money in on one of the predetermined strength settings, then the prize would drop right out of your grasp. Sorry kids.

LOL! WOW! I learn something new everyday. I absolutely like this tidbit of useful info. as my kids are always wanting Daddy to get a stuffed animal out of the machines for them.

[cottonmather0]

At the risk of breaking hearts I have the following to share. I worked in the corporate office of Mr Gatti's Pizza for a period of time. The restaurant makes virtually all of its operating cash flow from its gaming section. There are huge free cash flow margins associated with a skee ball game that pays itself off in 3 months and lasts for 15 years. Anyways, the most interesting factoid I learned related to the "crane-grab" game. You've seen the game I'm talking about, where there is a glass box full of prizes and you operate a small crane to try to grab one of the prizes, pull it up and then deposit it into your chute. Well, the game is rigged. The tensile strength of the 'grabber' is only strong enough to pull up the prize on every X number of turns. So in other words, you could display the greatest skill in crane operatorship known to mankind, but unless you got lucky and put your money in on one of the predetermined strength settings, then the prize would drop right out of your grasp. Sorry kids.

Rigged like a slot machine? That's funny.

Makes sense, though. I know people who claim to be really good at it and will excuse their misses with stuff like, "AWWW, I was 1/2 inch off!" and crap like that, yet they had the teddy bear in a death grip around the neck and it just fell off. Now I get it.

[albertnurick]

I believe it. When I lived in Austin, there used to be one of these crane machine games at the Chuy's on N. Lamar. Apparently it wasn't rigged properly, because we were able to get a prize out almost every time. We spent about $5 and came out with an armload of stuffed animals, succeeding about 4 out of 5 times.

[HarrisCountyEx]

At Disney World, the gift shop as you exit the Winnie the Pooh ride is perfumed with the smell of honey. I think it is a ploy to stimulate your spending senses. I've seen programs about casinos doing the same thing like special lighting and smells to make you want to gamble. I've noticed that A&F sprays their perfume all over the store so much that you can smell it outside. I saw a salesperson spraying the perfume in the store on the clothes too.

[Pumapayam]

Latest shrinkage to something pretty important if you depend on them for protien or recipes, please don't get cheated by buying StarKist Tuna thinking you are getting 6 oz. like the other brands, when you are now getting 5 oz.. Stick with Bumble bee or Chicken of the Sea.

[livincinco]

Latest shrinkage to something pretty important if you depend on them for protien or recipes, please don't get cheated by buying StarKist Tuna thinking you are getting 6 oz. like the other brands, when you are now getting 5 oz.. Stick with Bumble bee or Chicken of the Sea.

Relevant article from last weekend's NY Times about shrinkage. (and no, I'm not talking about Seinfeld).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/business...size&st=cse

[sarahiki]

Relevant article from last weekend's NY Times about shrinkage. (and no, I'm not talking about Seinfeld).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/business...size&st=cse

I just noticed that last week with the ice cream. I think it was Breyer's. Seemed like a good price, but it was gone very quickly, and it fit on the shelf in the freezer a bit too easily. I checked the size, and sure enough, it wasn't a half gallon, but 1.5 quarts. I think that's what it was... honestly, I have no idea what quarts and gallons and pints are and can't remember their relationships, which makes this kind of switcheroo even easier for the companies to pull off. If we used the metric system like the rest of the world it would be harder for them to trick us.

[cottonmather0]

I just noticed that last week with the ice cream. I think it was Breyer's. Seemed like a good price, but it was gone very quickly, and it fit on the shelf in the freezer a bit too easily. I checked the size, and sure enough, it wasn't a half gallon, but 1.5 quarts. I think that's what it was... honestly, I have no idea what quarts and gallons and pints are and can't remember their relationships, which makes this kind of switcheroo even easier for the companies to pull off. If we used the metric system like the rest of the world it would be harder for them to trick us.

Bluebell advertises that they're still 1/2 gallon = 2 quarts = 4 pints.

[sarahiki]

Bluebell advertises that they're still 1/2 gallon = 2 quarts = 4 pints.

Put me in the pro-Bluebell camp, then!

[webdude]

Just buy store brands. Many times they are actually better.

[Pumapayam]

Just buy store brands. Many times they are actually better.

I have, and want to disagree on a few, particularly bagels. HCF Bagels taste awful compared to Sara Lee. I will gladly pay the $1 premium for better tasting, less dry bagels.

I learned my lesson.

[Vertigo58]

My lil sister said when she worked at Church's Fried Chicken as a teen, her manager always ordered them to always cook the chicken that was about to spoil so as not to waste anything $.

and boy do I have a bunch of retail secrets you probably cant get away with now-a-days. Boss's orders of course.

[SchwinnChopper68]

When I was younger I worked at a restaurant as a busboy that will remain nameless since they are still in business. Under strict orders from the manager I was trained to remove the dinner plates from the tables and then "sort" them in the backroom. Now I'm not sure if this sort of stuff still goes on but in the backroom there were several gray rectangular tubs.

In one went uneaten meat, in another untouched rolls, in another untouched potatos and in the last untouched fish and shrimp. The cook would grab the rolls, spray a little mist on them and heat them up a bit to be good as new. The shrimp would be chilled again, potatos reheated and the meat reheated. That place did a fairly brisk business so the turnover was quite fast but I would always wonder about if this roll or that shrimp had been through the ringer 3 or 4 times.

Perhaps this was quite common back then because I still remember the maids at Kolter elementary sitting by the garbage cans that would segregate the trash into paper/plastic products, general food and meat. I won't even speculate as to the why of the sorting. But some of those low paid maids were rather plump.

[N Judah]

The police do not respond to (non-violent) shoplifting that's under $500.

[ssullivan]

Just buy store brands. Many times they are actually better.

It really depends. There are some store branded products that really are a big reduction in quality and taste over the national brands.

[editor]

I just noticed that last week with the ice cream. I think it was Breyer's. Seemed like a good price, but it was gone very quickly, and it fit on the shelf in the freezer a bit too easily. I checked the size, and sure enough, it wasn't a half gallon, but 1.5 quarts. I think that's what it was... honestly, I have no idea what quarts and gallons and pints are and can't remember their relationships, which makes this kind of switcheroo even easier for the companies to pull off. If we used the metric system like the rest of the world it would be harder for them to trick us.

I dunno about that. They'd continue shrinking, except it would go from 1.5 kilograms to 140 centigrams.

[TexasVines]

When I was younger I worked at a restaurant as a busboy that will remain nameless since they are still in business. Under strict orders from the manager I was trained to remove the dinner plates from the tables and then "sort" them in the backroom. Now I'm not sure if this sort of stuff still goes on but in the backroom there were several gray rectangular tubs.

In one went uneaten meat, in another untouched rolls, in another untouched potatos and in the last untouched fish and shrimp. The cook would grab the rolls, spray a little mist on them and heat them up a bit to be good as new. The shrimp would be chilled again, potatos reheated and the meat reheated. That place did a fairly brisk business so the turnover was quite fast but I would always wonder about if this roll or that shrimp had been through the ringer 3 or 4 times.

Perhaps this was quite common back then because I still remember the maids at Kolter elementary sitting by the garbage cans that would segregate the trash into paper/plastic products, general food and meat. I won't even speculate as to the why of the sorting. But some of those low paid maids were rather plump.

please name the restaurant....if it is the truth then name them and do us all a favor

as for the maids I am sure they were sorting it to be sent to some hog farmer and they were large because they ate before or after their shift from the good food not from the trash

I did however work at a Chilis in San Antonio and while EVERYTHING about the place and the cleanliness and the sanitation was first rate there were some kooks that would eat out of the trash, but it was them of their own fruition and if caught by management they would have been possibly sent packing for being crazy.............eventually all of them came and went for just that reason