bubbles Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Put a contract on a house. Read a recent inspection. Part of house is still knob and tube, supports in roof bending, needed a new roof when the owners bought it and they never put in on. Says that the plumbing and pipes could go any day and have never been updated and that the heater is in bad shape. This house is in the heights, shows well but has been on the market about 3 mths. I am worried about the repairs needed and have no experience here. I really need some help since this is our first house. Can anyone offer an opinion on this 1915 bungalow's condition. Is this a normal or really bad inspection report? My own inspector will inspect this week since the other one never climbed underneath. What do they do to rewire a house exactly? I'm ready to back out since I think I may be in over my head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 the knob and tube should be replaced in order to help the ability to acquire insurance. if the supports in roof are bending, are there multiple roofs up there? maybe excessive weight is causing that and simply removing the roofs in the process of replacing the roof will help the situation. you will apprciate replacing the plumbing as well. your water pressure will be much higher. heater replacment is easy. i would definitely try and go under the house to determine the condition of the beams. sometimes the beams are rotten and it is good before you buy. they are definitely replaceable, but it is good to know.rewiring a house with knob and tube can vary. sometimes they are physically connected to wall studs via the the "knobs" other times they are just run through the wall cavities in a cloth tube-like structure so it is easy to attact the new wire to the old one and just pull it through the wall cavity.i had to do all this and more to my house so it can be done. it could be difficult esp if you HAVE to live there while work is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 IMO, depends on your willingness to live in a construction zone and if you've got the cash to do the repairs now. New roof, taking out old knob and tube, and the plumbing are all things you should do immediately (electrical first, if you want to find someone to insure the place). I'd imagine you're well over $10 grand in repairs just moving in. And if the current owners have not bothered to fix it themsleves, they're probably not going to want to do them as terms of the contract, since that's money directly out of their pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm1fd Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 These items, while costly to have repaired, don't really concern me. What I do have a problem with is that all these items are the un-sexy things that cost money to fix but don't add a tremendous amount of value. They might make it sell a bit quicker, but 98% of buyers won't appreciate these sorts of repairs and won't be willing to pay extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 IMO, depends on your willingness to live in a construction zone and if you've got the cash to do the repairs now. New roof, taking out old knob and tube, and the plumbing are all things you should do immediately (electrical first, if you want to find someone to insure the place). I'd imagine you're well over $10 grand in repairs just moving in. And if the current owners have not bothered to fix it themsleves, they're probably not going to want to do them as terms of the contract, since that's money directly out of their pockets.Well we went for this house because we thought it was move in ready. The inside is gorgeous. We ruled out others that needed tons of repairs. If all the houses in the area need this I hate to let this house go but if most of the houses already have these things done I may have to reconsider this one. I appreciate all your help and information. Thank you so much ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Knob and tube in and of itself is not bad wiring. My house had new wiring for the outlets, but they left it for the lights. I plan to replace it anyway, but it is not a danger. Galvanized plumbing pipe will fill with rust over time, allowing less water through the pipe. Assuming this is a one story, one bath bungalw, replacing the plumbing is not hugely expensive, and will increase water pressure, as musicman stated. If the roof and supports are generally in good shape, supports can be added to make it more sturdy. Make sure that the contractor knows a little physics before you trust him to do this. The base of the support MUST be attached to a load bearing wall or it is useless, even if it looks good.Like musicman, I would be most concerned with the wood. While electrical and plumbing systems can be replaced without tearing up the house, beams and joists cannot. If you find any serious damage here, walk away.I would get quotes to repair or replace the electrical and plumbing, and make a counter offer reflecting the costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Knob and tube in and of itself is not bad wiring. true but many homeowners end up insulating the attic space and cover it which is against code. it should be exposed to surrounding air. also many appliances weren't in existence so amperage levels were lower in circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott08 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 My Heights area house (currently on market) was built in 1949, relatively recent considering. Although some later added wiring (notably the 220 for the central air/heat) is conventional, most of the house still has knob and tube and has given me absolutely no problems. I would not agree to replace it as a condition of sale. Replacing my water heater a few years back supercharged the water pressure, apparently the old one was pretty plugged up with rust.As stated by others, plumbing work is pretty easy if needed on a pier and beam house. Wood condition would be important to me though, inspecting the general condition as well as the general "solidity" of the house. Walking through my home feels very solid compared to others I've been in that creak with every step, and have obvious high and low spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Well I have the new inspection this weekend and I told them to climb under the house! I am so thankful to all of you for your honest opinions and information. We want to live in the heights but we also want a house that is safe. We can handle cosmetic renovations but the structure itself must be good. I am hoping that the report will focus on my areas of concern, wiring, plumbing, roof, wood. I do know that the roof is not overlayed so there may another problem. Thank you for the info on proper supports, wiring, plumbing and wood. I knew there would be some issues in buying an older home but this all hit at once and was very stressful! You get so excited when you find THE HOUSE , then your bid is accepted and then the fun begins with inspections!!! Now I am wondering how many homes have most of this already done? Hard to know if I bid properly on this one nwo that this has all come to light.!One Question.....how do you have insurance if you still have the knob and tube wiring in your house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 One Question.....how do you have insurance if you still have the knob and tube wiring in your house?i know i couldn't get insurance and my agent found me a policy from texas fair plan (i think??) which is where you go when you are rejected for one reason or another. it was reasonable but i think you have to go through an agent. i subsequently had it rewired and have had no problems getting insurance.i know someone else who had problems getting insurance on rental property. i gave him the agent's name who hooked me up and well the agent hooked him up too. he's on the eastside and really only does older houses so i guess he knows the various options better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJXterra Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 This is pretty standard for a heights bungalow. That doesn't mean it's not necessary to fix, just that its not rare. I dissagree completely that these things don't add value to the house...from our looking about a year an a half ago these things add dollar for dollar to the house...well, not the roof.Electrical need to be replaced, you can get it insured w/o it but your electrical won't be able to handle your PC, tv, etc. And once you start to overload it, that's when it becomes unsafe. The plumbing in to the house isn't as big a deal IMO as the plumbing OUT of the house. You need to check the sewage line, if this isn't new and run out to the street in front you're going to have to replace it at some point most likely.The roof isnt' a big issue until it starts leaking (which could be any day), but you probably haven't looked at the HVAC yet which hopefully is new but if old will need replacing too. On these houses the little stuff always comes up but the big 5 are what you need to look for. Foundation, Plumbing, Electrical, Roof, HVAC. You also need a termite inspection obviously. Foundation on Pier and Beam isn't that big of a deal, we had ours completely releveled for under 1k. Plumbing and Electrical and HVAC you can't live in Houston w/o so get those checked out well.We had bids done for repairs to our house when we bought it and had the previous owners go 50/50 and take 1/2 the costs out of the home price. Lastly...if you want a bungalow, you're going to have to fix things. Just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Remember, I said that the only knob and tube that was left on my house was the overhead light circuit. No appliances are hooked to it. All of my receptacles are on new wiring.I got insurance because frankly, I did not know that there was any knob and tube at all. I had seen the partial rewire, and assumed it was the entire house. When I was in the attic, I saw the lighting wire.As for knob and tube for receptacles, as long as you do not overload the circuit (which is true for ANY wiring), it will do fine. Frankly, the circuit breaker, if sized correctly, will provide the overload protection. Knob and tube is a good system. The problems arise when the insulation, which is old and brittle, falls off, exposing the wire. Even this is not a problem, as long as there is not a crossing of the wires. While today's insulated wiring is clearly better, the overreaction to knob and tube wiring is often just that...an overreaction.That said, overreaction is worth money. A rewired bungalow has more value than an original one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 As for knob and tube for receptacles, as long as you do not overload the circuit (which is true for ANY wiring), it will do fine. Frankly, the circuit breaker, if sized correctly, will provide the overload protection. Knob and tube is a good system. The problems arise when the insulation, which is old and brittle, falls off, exposing the wire. Even this is not a problem, as long as there is not a crossing of the wires. While today's insulated wiring is clearly better, the overreaction to knob and tube wiring is often just that...an overreaction.Interesting you say that, because the inspector on my place mentioned that knob and tube, in her estimation, was superior in many ways. All the old stuff was left in, just disconnected when the house was re-wired; at first look we thought we had a big electrical job on our hands. When I was shopping, I looked at a couple of total frankenhouses in Lindale that were partially re-done. Stuff where you unscrew the cover over the outlet, see charred bits, and wonder why the house hasdn't burned down yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Well I'm feeling a little better knowing my house may be ok. I'll just have to wait for the final inspection this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 Great news! The inspector did a thorough inspection today. The good was pretty good considering what we thought was wrong. We may have all new wiring but We will have to get an electrician to be sure. Most of it is new in Kitchen, Bath and ceiling light fixtures. Said we need a 30 amp instead of 60 amp for new Ac that was put in this year or it won't recycle properly. Heater seems to be ok , it lights and flame looks good. Plumbing was replaced when batht was put in so we have a combination of old and new there. Climbed under house and said that it is graded well, pier and beam look good, no evidence of wood damage.Said removing a bit of the skirt would allow for air to get in. Termite inspection to be done next week. Roofer said that roof decking looks good, supports are fine and gave a quote of under 5,000 to fix. Inspector actually said that this is one of the best homes he has seen lately! Not sure why the other inspection said what it did but the inspector never went into the roof , attic or under the house. We were very happy to see that our biggest item is the roof and that is fully repairable. If the electrician say the old knob and tube was just left there then we are really in good shape. The big 5 seem to be fine. The old house next door has been sold so lets hope something nice will go up next to us. I am really feeling good about this and appreciate all the help everyone has given. I think you may have a new neighbor in the heights very soon!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Said we need a 30 amp instead of 60 amp for new Ac that was put in this year or it won't recycle properly.congrats! the above is an interesting comment. never heard that before. replacing the breaker should be a piece of cake though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 He said it was because it was such an efficient unit!! Also said it was easy to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 He said it was because it was such an efficient unit!! Also said it was easy to replace.yeah a lot of time adding a jump kit will do the same thing. i had to do that on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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