Gary Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 hey everybody, got a question.... The second floor of my home is creaking, and getting worse. I understand the basic priniciple of re-nailing the floor into the floor joists, but is there a tried and true method? Please help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 The entire second floor or just a room? We've had this in both of my two stories but only isolated in ceratin areas. Is this new? Do you hear it in the Summer? Mabye it's weather (cool) related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 The entire second floor or just a room? We've had this in both of my two stories but only isolated in ceratin areas. Is this new? Do you hear it in the Summer? Mabye it's weather (cool) related.Sorry Coog I should have been more clear. It originally started at the top of the stairs, and in the master bath. Since then (about 2 years) it has progressed noticeably throughout the master bath, and has also progressed from the top of the stairs and down the hall toward my bedroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Hmmm.....We did the wood screws to the floor thing. Didn't work. Then one day it all just went away. Crazy.Both times it was warrantly work, but you could try it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Hmmm.....We did the wood screws to the floor thing. Didn't work. Then one day it all just went away. Crazy.Both times it was warrantly work, but you could try it yourself.Warranty huh? I've got a warranty on the house which I pay each year, and have used it on the AC, etc. The AC worked out great for the pocket book. I got a brand new bad boy for about 100.00... I didn't think warranty would cover creaks in the floor but it sounds like something I should check into.I thought about placing foam in between each floor board before re-nailing/screwing. Not sure if that's plausible as this is a new thing for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgs1419 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Can you give us some details on your particular situation. I might have a suggestion or two. How old is the house, Is the area have flooring over a subfloor (i.e. most late model homes) or wood floor nailed directly to the joists (i.e. heights, montrose, et al). The question regarding when it occurs is also a good one, just when it gets cold, just when it's hot, all the time, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Sorry Coog I should have been more clear. It originally started at the top of the stairs, and in the master bath. Since then (about 2 years) it has progressed noticeably throughout the master bath, and has also progressed from the top of the stairs and down the hall toward my bedroom.Possibly water damage from the masterbath over the years, causing a little "warping" of the plywood. Eventually you want to change out the wood underneath. Do you have carpet/tile in the bath or tile only, or carpet only ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Can you give us some details on your particular situation. I might have a suggestion or two. How old is the house, Is the area have flooring over a subfloor (i.e. most late model homes) or wood floor nailed directly to the joists (i.e. heights, montrose, et al). The question regarding when it occurs is also a good one, just when it gets cold, just when it's hot, all the time, etc.The house was built in 89, and although not positive, I'm pretty sure the floor is nailed directly to the joist. The floor does seem to be getting worse as of late (cold weather) but the creaking happens year round, so yeah it's all the time. Any suggestions would be appreciated.Possibly water damage from the masterbath over the years, causing a little "warping" of the plywood. Eventually you want to change out the wood underneath. Do you have carpet/tile in the bath or tile only, or carpet only ?I don't think it's the water from the master bath TJ as it's happening almost everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Apologies, I thought you said just around the Masterbath and top of the stairs area. If it is in all rooms, then it is a just a matter of age and wear. I think you have a Pulte home, or something similar, like the builders in Govenor's Place, right ? I think it is a combination of age and wear, normally you wouldn't need to replace the floors yet, but remember this house was built in 1985, and Katy standards weren't nearly as strict as they are now. It is possible that you didn't get the best subflooring during that time. A million possiblities as to why, as long as nobody falls through you should be ok for a little while. Perhaps you may be able to use your home warranty, but replacing the floors if they don't cover it would probably be about a $4000 job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Apologies, I thought you said just around the Masterbath and top of the stairs area. If it is in all rooms, then it is a just a matter of age and wear. I think you have a Pulte home, or something similar, like the builders in Govenor's Place, right ? I think it is a combination of age and wear, normally you wouldn't need to replace the floors yet, but remember this house was built in 1985, and Katy standards weren't nearly as strict as they are now. It is possible that you didn't get the best subflooring during that time. A million possiblities as to why, as long as nobody falls through you should be ok for a little while. Perhaps you may be able to use your home warranty, but replacing the floors if they don't cover it would probably be about a $4000 job.It's not in all rooms but in the areas you mention, however the top of the stairs and the MB are in seperate areas. The house wasn't built in 85 though, it was built in 89.I've been talking to a friend and he mentioned the possibility that the floor joists may be 2X8's vs 2X10s, and that I may be dealing with warp. Ever heard of that? I can understand the possibility in the bathroom, but not the other areas. Also, he mentioned that the floor boards may not be toungue and groove which sounds plausible since I've found uneven seams at a couple of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 A house built in 1989 likely has plywood nailed to the floor. It is possible (even likely) that the nails are not ring shank, meaning that over time the nails will loosen, allowing the plywood to move when stepped on. The creaking is generally 2 boards rubbing against each other. If you nail them back down, use ring shanks. Also, you can rub wax on the edges of the boards to allow them to rub quietly. This also may work on bed rails.As Coog mentioned, the cooler drier weather causes the boards to shrink, allowing movement. My 87 year old floor sings like a cabary right now. Luckily, I can chalk it up to the "charm" of an old house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I meant '89 Gary, sorry bud. That is what I am saying, they are warping over time and use. Masterbath is even more prone because of all the wetness in that area, seeping into the floors. The top of the stairs is because that is where the floor and the stairs meet up, and there is just alot of movement from you and the kids going up and down the stairs. This is just one of the joys of owning a home.Now, as far as bedrails go..............I ain't tryin' to fix the squeakin' on those badboys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapturematt Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 There is no real quick fix for what you are trying to accomplish. As it has been stated before the best bet is to nail it down with ring shanked nails.Typical construction of your floors is, 2x8 joist for anything built from 1985 to 1994 then 5/8 plywood then whatever flooring that you have in your home.Either way, nail it in with ring shanked nails or replace with a tongue and groove manufactured wood or solid wood floors. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgs1419 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The reason is likely started around the stairs is you have some uneven settlement due to the stair load. In general, the framing isn't undersized but it's probably at its maximum span and has gained a permanent camber. It doesn't have to seperate much from the sub-floor to start squeaking. The recent dry air/use of the heater is making it more squeaky. In the height of the summer it probably squeaks a lot too because the a/c is running a lot and lowering the humidity in the house.As previously posted, Ring shank nails are a good solution. Galvanized screw shank nails are better. Screws are probably the best (IMHO). New fasteners are the most practical fix but won't totally solve your problem. If it's an open area like a game room, nothing short of 'sistering' the joists (can you say that on TV?) will shore up the subfloor and that is messy, expensive and probably not worth it unless you are remodeling. I did it in my house (1905 Heights house, very undersized second floor joists) but I had the whole downstairs ceiling open at the time so I had good access.When you are ready to change out the floor, bear down on the sub-floor and refasten it on a close spacing. A quality wood floor on top of the existing sub-floor will bridge the squeaky spots and help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 The reason is likely started around the stairs is you have some uneven settlement due to the stair load. In general, the framing isn't undersized but it's probably at its maximum span and has gained a permanent camber. It doesn't have to seperate much from the sub-floor to start squeaking. The recent dry air/use of the heater is making it more squeaky. In the height of the summer it probably squeaks a lot too because the a/c is running a lot and lowering the humidity in the house.As previously posted, Ring shank nails are a good solution. Galvanized screw shank nails are better. Screws are probably the best (IMHO). New fasteners are the most practical fix but won't totally solve your problem. If it's an open area like a game room, nothing short of 'sistering' the joists (can you say that on TV?) will shore up the subfloor and that is messy, expensive and probably not worth it unless you are remodeling. I did it in my house (1905 Heights house, very undersized second floor joists) but I had the whole downstairs ceiling open at the time so I had good access.When you are ready to change out the floor, bear down on the sub-floor and refasten it on a close spacing. A quality wood floor on top of the existing sub-floor will bridge the squeaky spots and help too.Thanks for the advice... Question: Is it really neccessary to use galvanized? I understand the whole corrosion issue but is that really a problem with flooring? The reason i ask is because I have access (free) to a ton of triple zinc coated screw shank nails. I understand the cost of the galvanized is trivial in this situation, but if I don't have to buy them I'd rather not.Now, as far as bedrails go..............I ain't tryin' to fix the squeakin' on those badboys.Lol! I've got em lubed up pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapturematt Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't think it is necessarily think you need to use galvanized nails but I still will recommend it. Especially around the bath area. You will never believe how fast something can rust out in a bathroom. I just did a house and took out some nails that were in the house for over 70 years. They were still shinny in the places other than the bathroom and nearly all of the bathroom nails broke or were completely rusted out when I was taking out the sub-flooringIn real focus, you need to make sure they are shanked. I think you have that covered though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't think it is necessarily think you need to use galvanized nails but I still will recommend it. Especially around the bath area. You will never believe how fast something can rust out in a bathroom. I just did a house and took out some nails that were in the house for over 70 years. They were still shinny in the places other than the bathroom and nearly all of the bathroom nails broke or were completely rusted out when I was taking out the sub-flooringIn real focus, you need to make sure they are shanked. I think you have that covered though.Yeah, it makes sense to use them in the bathroom. I'll probably just do the whole upstairs to be safe.Question: How common is it for floor joists (2"X 8") to rot in the bathroom of a 18 year old home? Am I worrying about nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Question: How common is it for floor joists (2"X 8") to rot in the bathroom of a 18 year old home? Am I worrying about nothing?not common unless there's a problem. my floor joints are from the 30's and still doing fine. the floor shouldn't be getting wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 not common unless there's a problem. my floor joints are from the 30's and still doing fine. the floor shouldn't be getting wet.True, but a few years ago i found a couple of spots in which the caulking had seperated around the tub. I obviously fixed the areas but was concerned that maybe my problem in the bathroom was from moisture getting into the cracks, thus possibly rotting the joist below.Am i correct that most joists in my home period are not wolmanized (pressue treated)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 True, but a few years ago i found a couple of spots in which the caulking had seperated around the tub. I obviously fixed the areas but was concerned that maybe my problem in the bathroom was from moisture getting into the cracks, thus possibly rotting the joist below.Am i correct that most joists in my home period are not wolmanized (pressue treated)?usually the tub has a lip around it (at least mine does) so water won't go down from there. it may go over the side onto the floor. i doubt they would be treated esp on 2nd floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgs1419 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Am i correct that most joists in my home period are not wolmanized (pressue treated)?It's a lead pipe cinch that there isn't a stick of treated frame lumber in your house. Your joists are #2 yellow pine. Your sill plate might be borate treated (it would be blue) but I don't remember it being widely used until the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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