Planner takes new look at urban living

[musicman]

Andres Duany bends over a table in a makeshift studio in Houston, sketching rapidly with a black marker on tissue-thin sheets of white paper. Colleagues from his planning team lean in to hear as he pours out ideas.

Expressing so much passion about a space where people stash their garbage might seem a bit obsessive. But in the New Urbanist design model that Duany is bringing to Houston, every inch of space in a development

Edited July 9, 2007 by musicman

[MidtownCoog]

Is New Urbanist the new "Cookie Cutter" {concept} for the new millenia?

Also, can anyone find the editioral from yesterday's Chron? It was somewhat related to the current debate and worth a read.

I can't seem to find it today.

[musicman]

with the way the townhome market is going.........the builders will keep building the same stuff since sales are good.

[ToryGattis]

Is New Urbanist the new "Cookie Cutter" {concept} for the new millenia?

Also, can anyone find the editioral from yesterday's Chron? It was somewhat related to the current debate and worth a read.

I can't seem to find it today.

Five good reasons why quality of life is the issue here

Houston Chronicle - United States

So, whether you support new urbanism, opportunity urbanism, traditional urbanism or simply seek urban livability, quality of life enhancements are an ...

Houston can offer a choice: affordable suburbs and high commuting ...

Houston Chronicle - United States

Kotkin writes that Houston exemplifies what he terms "opportunity urbanism" and has prospered because the market, rather than government codes and planning, ...

[MidtownCoog]

Thanks for posting.

In the second opinion, it's dissapointing to see The Chron once again get excited about our "renowned performing arts".

Of all these experts only Klineberg seems to get the education component. That's the most critical.

The Chron is wrong in saying how Houston "built their neighborhoods distant from their jobs and their shopping needs".

Houston didn't do that, the burbs did. Most burbs are in unincorporated Harris County or edge cities.

What happened is Houston lost an opportunity to keep it's people. Famalies won't just stay in the city becuase of "renowned performing arts." They need education for their children.

[TheNiche]

Of all these experts only Klineberg seems to get the education component. That's the most critical.

Kleinberg only thinks that he's got an edge on it because, as far as I can tell, he apparently hasn't read Kotkin's report. I read the report and went to one of Kotkin's speaking events--he's on top of the education issue. Everyone in this debate is.

The Chron is wrong in saying how Houston "built their neighborhoods distant from their jobs and their shopping needs".

Houston didn't do that, the burbs did. Most burbs are in unincorporated Harris County or edge cities.

The Chron is wrong, but not entirely for the reason you point out. As Houston built its burbs, it built offices and shopping centers as part of them. The majority of workers in our region work in suburban locations. For some reason, they cling to the myth of the monocentric city. Some of Duany's comments indicate that he clings to the myth as well.

[lockmat]

Providing affordable housing, Duany said, is chiefly the responsibility of the federal and local governments rather than developers. His projects for Liu will include garage apartments, with some houses, which will provide an affordable rental unit as well as generating income that owners can apply to their mortgage payments.

I'm betting most in this forum would happen to disagree with this quoted thought.

But this is something I'm interested in getting to the bottom to as some of you know. I'm all for a community where all incomes can be represented. But it seems like the only place for that is either the suburbs, or where the edges of a new development borders with the soon to be gentrified neighborhood.

[musicman]

But this is something I'm interested in getting to the bottom to as some of you know. I'm all for a community where all incomes can be represented. But it seems like the only place for that is either the suburbs, or where the edges of a new development borders with the soon to be gentrified neighborhood.

I'm still confused at where all incomes aren't represented in the community. Not everyone can afford River Oaks, but there are plenty of opportunities within the inner loop area.

[TheNiche]

I'm betting most in this forum would happen to disagree with this quoted thought.

But this is something I'm interested in getting to the bottom to as some of you know. I'm all for a community where all incomes can be represented. But it seems like the only place for that is either the suburbs, or where the edges of a new development borders with the soon to be gentrified neighborhood.

Yeah, I spotted that and thought to myself that Duany has apparently not familiarized himself with incentives administered by the TDHCA or the reactions to them when a low-income apartment project is proposed in an otherwise-wealthy area. He readily acknowledges that he is not designing housing that will be sold to poor or many middle-class households, but seems not to understand that the prospective buyers 1) aren't going to want to deal with a tenant in their back yard, 2) certainly aren't going to want to deal with all the low-income tenants in their neighbors' backyards, and 3) that potential income is offset by a higher sale price.

[lockmat]

I'm still confused at where all incomes aren't represented in the community. Not everyone can afford River Oaks, but there are plenty of opportunities within the inner loop area.

I appreciate the correction(s), so maybe I should just stop saying there isn't affordable housing. But I guess "affordable" is relative to the amount of income you bring in. I'm also talking in terms of a residence you can buy that are condo-like; not in terms of quality, but in terms of a building that's at least three of four stories, in/or close to a walkable neighborhood (which yall may say already exists). Imagine a person who lives in the suburbs and owns a mobile home. Would they be able to purchase a residence inside or just outside the loop for the same amount of money they bought that mobile home with?

Sorry if I'm being hard-headed.

[TheNiche]

Imagine a person who lives in the suburbs and owns a mobile home. Would they be able to purchase a residence inside or just outside the loop for the same amount of money they bought that mobile home with?

Depends on how nice the mobile home is.

[musicman]

I appreciate the correction(s), so maybe I should just stop saying there isn't affordable housing. But I guess "affordable" is relative to the amount of income you bring in. I'm also talking in terms of a residence you can buy that are condo-like; not in terms of quality, but in terms of a building that's at least three of four stories, in/or close to a walkable neighborhood (which yall may say already exists). Imagine a person who lives in the suburbs and owns a mobile home. Would they be able to purchase a residence inside or just outside the loop for the same amount of money they bought that mobile home with?

Sorry if I'm being hard-headed.

prices increase as you start choosing specific locations and types of structures. theoretically the structure price could be fairly fixed while the land's isn't fixed. the better the location the higher the price of the land but i've also seen them increase the price of the structure.

how this relates to someone in a mobile home i'm not sure but i believe a person in a mobile home could purchase a residence inside the loop for a similar amount. actually i know someone who has done this after they were convinced that a mobile home is a bad investment.

now if you're trying to say whether someone in a mobile home could afford a 3 or 4 story condo in midtown, i'd say most likely not. It is all about supply and demand. land prices there alone would keep many out.

it really helps if people don't try to live beyond their means. with your example, that is the other end of the spectrum. i know someone who HAD to be in the museum area and bought a place, did some remodeling and now has no furniture downstairs and only a bedroom suite upstairs. while it is a good location, i'd probably not be happy living there at least in they state the place is in (no furniture). he's been there a yr now and is still living that way. there are many more modest homes that he probably could have purchased for cheaper and not be living as he has. I think when you get older, some life priorities will be established and i'll bet one of them won't be living in a 3 or 4 story condo.

i believe you were the one who had an obsession with living in a condo with your wife and 2 kids. trying to predict the future can take a big toll, especially when it doesn't work out like you thought.

[TheNiche]

prices increase as you start choosing specific locations and types of structures. theoretically the structure price could be fairly fixed while the land's isn't fixed. the better the location the higher the price of the land but i've also seen them increase the price of the structure.

how this relates to someone in a mobile home i'm not sure but i believe a person in a mobile home could purchase a residence inside the loop for a similar amount. actually i know someone who has done this after they were convinced that a mobile home is a bad investment.

now if you're trying to say whether someone in a mobile home could afford a 3 or 4 story condo in midtown, i'd say most likely not. It is all about supply and demand. land prices there alone would keep many out.

it really helps if people don't try to live beyond their means. with your example, that is the other end of the spectrum. i know someone who HAD to be in the museum area and bought a place, did some remodeling and now has no furniture downstairs and only a bedroom suite upstairs. while it is a good location, i'd probably not be happy living there at least in they state the place is in (no furniture). he's been there a yr now and is still living that way. there are many more modest homes that he probably could have purchased for cheaper and not be living as he has. I think when you get older, some life priorities will be established and i'll bet one of them won't be living in a 3 or 4 story condo.

i believe you were the one who had an obsession with living in a condo with your wife and 2 kids. trying to predict the future can take a big toll, especially when it doesn't work out like you thought.

I think what musicman is getting at is that life is all about compromises and identifying opportunities.

I would absolutely love to have a couple thousand acres of hill country land with an old farmhouse nestled in a secluded valley. Ain't happening. Alternatively, I'd love to create a home perched atop a 95-foot slip-form tube of concrete along Navigation Blvd. overlooking the turning basin at the Port of Houston. Ain't happening. At least, those things won't happen anytime soon. But in the near future, I'm going to be looking to downsize from a 600sf 1/1 valued at probably $52-55k into something even less expensive so that I might be able to save up my money to live out a dream. Sacrifice at present for wealth in the future. Compromises--gotta make them.

When I was a college student, I nearly sold my condo and bought 40 acres and a tiny cottage 95 miles from town. Believe it or not, I could've quit the job I had at the time, taken out student loans, arranged my class schedule to only have to commute twice a week, found someone for a cattle lease, and as good as the deal actually was, with land appreciating like it was, I would've very nearly come out ahead financially! Didn't happen...but might should've. Opportunities--must identify them.

And if you're good at the one, the other follows.

[lockmat]

prices increase as you start choosing specific locations and types of structures. theoretically the structure price could be fairly fixed while the land's isn't fixed. the better the location the higher the price of the land but i've also seen them increase the price of the structure.

how this relates to someone in a mobile home i'm not sure but i believe a person in a mobile home could purchase a residence inside the loop for a similar amount. actually i know someone who has done this after they were convinced that a mobile home is a bad investment.

now if you're trying to say whether someone in a mobile home could afford a 3 or 4 story condo in midtown, i'd say most likely not. It is all about supply and demand. land prices there alone would keep many out.

it really helps if people don't try to live beyond their means. with your example, that is the other end of the spectrum. i know someone who HAD to be in the museum area and bought a place, did some remodeling and now has no furniture downstairs and only a bedroom suite upstairs. while it is a good location, i'd probably not be happy living there at least in they state the place is in (no furniture). he's been there a yr now and is still living that way. there are many more modest homes that he probably could have purchased for cheaper and not be living as he has. I think when you get older, some life priorities will be established and i'll bet one of them won't be living in a 3 or 4 story condo.

i believe you were the one who had an obsession with living in a condo with your wife and 2 kids. trying to predict the future can take a big toll, especially when it doesn't work out like you thought.

I get you and Niches point. However, in this case I'm not talking about myself or my future.

I understand that a developer most likely will not purchase a very expensive piece of land, i.e. inside the loop, and sell it at an "affordable" rate; for people who need an "affordable residence." I guess the only real way to do that is through subsidizing, because right now the market will not allow it. If there is any kind of neighborhood with people of a very broad range of incomes inside the loop, my guess is that through gentrification, it will soon disappear and any mix of incomes will continue to move further and further from downtown.

I'm beginning to realize more and more that this idea I have of mixed income levels living in a walkable area probably stemmed from readings I did when I first sparked an interest in this urban planning subject.

Thanks for the explanations and the patience. Unfortunately, ways of thinking aren't like a light switch but are more of an evolution.

And as a side note - Maybe it's because I'm not a great communicator by prose, but debating/arguing/discussing this way is not my prerogative. I like having a live dialogue through speech. I feel like people are understood much better, at least in my case.

[musicman]

"affordable" housing is available but if you're thinking a 4 story townhome, think again. maybe an SRO is good for you. it is all about compromise.

When mentioning a neighborhood of a very broad range of incomes, what is the range approximately?

why is DOWNTOWN proper so important to you? most of the nicer places aren't in downtown.

I feel the area i live is walkable/bikeable. across the street is a library, two blocks is a park, two blocks is a convenient store, 1 block a barber. i can easily ride bike to 2 large grocery stores, 1 smaller one, a large park, a mall, and many restaurants. i can catch the bus easily. and...i don't live downtown.

[lockmat]

"affordable" housing is available but if you're thinking a 4 story townhome, think again. maybe an SRO is good for you. it is all about compromise.

When mentioning a neighborhood of a very broad range of incomes, what is the range approximately?

why is DOWNTOWN proper so important to you? most of the nicer places aren't in downtown.

I feel the area i live is walkable/bikeable. across the street is a library, two blocks is a park, two blocks is a convenient store, 1 block a barber. i can easily ride bike to 2 large grocery stores, 1 smaller one, a large park, a mall, and many restaurants. i can catch the bus easily. and...i don't live downtown.

I didn't mean a 4-story condo. I meant a condo in a 4 story building. sorry.

And I guess I'm just harping on downtown and that area so much because that's the most dense area there is and where most of the mixed developments are sprouting up.

[musicman]

I didn't mean a 4-story condo. I meant a condo in a 4 story building. sorry.

And I guess I'm just harping on downtown and that area so much because that's the most dense area there is and where most of the mixed developments are sprouting up.

ah ok...BTW downtown isn't nearly as dense as you think compared to other areas of houston. i'd say s/w houston is the most. look at page 7 on this map. it surprised me that i live in/near one of the 2 most dense areas. one is in s/w houston as expected and the other near pecan park....at least according to this info.

Edited July 10, 2007 by musicman

[TheNiche]

I didn't mean a 4-story condo. I meant a condo in a 4 story building. sorry.

And I guess I'm just harping on downtown and that area so much because that's the most dense area there is and where most of the mixed developments are sprouting up.

The bulk of the population density in downtown Houston (which is 1.8 sq. mi.) is contained within a single building--the Harris County Jail. The downtown population that is not in group quarters is estimated to number about 4,000 according to the Downtown Management District. So of those that actually pay market prices to live there, the population density is only 2,222 persons per square mile. In comparison, the non-group-quarters population density throughout the entire Inner Loop area is 4,522 persons per square mile.

In the Gulfton area, bounded by Westpark, Chimney Rock, Hillcroft, and Bellaire, the non-group-quarters population density is 24,061 persons per square mile. Surprised?