Why Have So Many Malls In Houston Be Let Go?

[citykid09]

Why have so many malls in Houston been let go?

Why aren't these malls up graded?

Sharpstown

Greens Point

North West Mall

Which other malls?

[Subdude]

Well, they're just old. The neighborhood demographics for a lot of malls has changed since they were built, so upgrading may not make economic sense. Eventually some of the older malls will just close down like Gulfgate.

[111486]

That was the best thing to happen to Gulfgate. Eventhough the development is very siburban.

[Guest danax]

That was the best thing to happen to Gulfgate.  Eventhough the development is very siburban.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The current trend, or so I've read, is in the direction of the current version of Gulfgate, which, in my opinion, is just a glorified strip center. It conforms to the current demographics, blue collar families, by offering basic survival commodities; food (HEB), clothing (Ross, Old Navy, Marshall's, Foot Action) and shelter (Lowes, Home Depot). It is designed so that people don't have to spend time walking through the mall to get to the store they want, an indication of our times where people are busy, busy, busy, and too lazy to walk.The first one built like that was the current Meyerland, which has more upscale stores to match it's people. Both were built by Wulff & Co., who will also be developing another smaller center soon on Harrisburg on the East End near Eastwood, along the proposed Harrisburg MetroRail line.

I think it's likely that those other, older malls will end up getting some kind of revamping at some point too, unless the trend towards "reverse ghettoization" picks up steam where, some of the outer areas, like Greenspoint and Sharpstown, continue to decline while the inner city continues to improve.

[jmancuso]

meyerland mall was the same way in the 80's; a real ____ dump.

[Astro]

When was Sharpstown Mall last renovated? Right now it has kind of an 80s or 90s kind of look... It doesn't look too bad to me the way it is now though...

Northwest Mall could definitely use some help... But, I do really like the Foley's building the way it is now, with those huge tapered columns... I would hate to ever see it altered at all.

I haven't been to Gulfgate before, but I do like Meyerland's current setup... makes it easy to park near one particular store, but still close enough to park & walk to several other stores nearby.

They did Town & Country Village like that, and that place "Fountains on the Lakes" (or whatever), between Stafford & Sugarland on 59... And it looks like the new shopping centers at 59 & Highway 6, and at I-10 and Taylor, is going to be in that same style too.

I think this layout, with different-sized buildings spread throughout a sea of parking lots, is a big improvement over the previous style, with one huge building set way back behind an even huger front parking lot...

[The Great Hizzy!]

I would say that Northwest Mall is the best next candidate to be renovated. There are a lot of new residential complexes being built in the nearby industrial corridor just outside and just inside the loop near 290 and you would think that with the MarqE nearby along with some of the "wealthier" neighborhoods along I-10 that new and old residents might want an alternative location to the Galleria and Memorial City.

Of course, it all comes down to money and who is willing to invest it into such a project.

IMO, the renovation to Gulfgate and Meyerland have helped both areas significantly. Northline is slated for a major upgrade in conjunction with the extension of the north Hardy rail line but I think a shift in focus from traditional mall to a Meyerland/Gulfgate type of project might work even better.

BTW, mall closings are happening across the country. I understand that at least four malls have closed in South Florida over the last four years and a couple have closed in Atlanta.

While the mall concept hasn't completely died, it appears that the prospect of having SO MANY malls is dying.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[The Great Hizzy!]

I've always thought that Sharpstown, both the mall and the neighborhood, received a bit more stigma than it deserved but I'm not a Houston native and can't comment on what the area was like years ago. I'm sure it's digressed from when it first came along but it still seems like a fairly decent area, especially compared to some other areas like in NE Houston.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[bachanon]

there is a massive amount of single family residential development to the north and west of greenspoint. although greenspoint mall doesn't appear to be doing well, the demographics may be changing.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[UrbaNerd]

Don't forget old Westwood!

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[djrage]

The former mall at Bissonett (or is it Beechnut) & 59?

Glen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now the Westwood Technology Center. I hated seeing that place being gutted for its current incarnation. I had a couple of girlfriends that lived out in that area (off of Gessner and Braeswood) back in the mid 80s. I used to pass by that mall on the way there and remember when they would talk about going there to buy stuff. It was kind of a symbol of that time for me.

[citykid09]

Now the Westwood Technology Center. I hated seeing that place being gutted for its current incarnation. I had a couple of girlfriends that lived out in that area (off of Gessner and Braeswood) back in the mid 80s. I passed by that mall on the way there and remember when they would talk about going there to buy stuff. It was kind of a symbol of that time for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't they still have a Sears or JC Penny's there at Westwood Technology Center?

[The Great Hizzy!]

Sears.

[citykid09]

So it still has a Sears?

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[ssullivan]

T&C - If they would have gotten off their asses before MeMo city did, it would be MeMo city tearing down their mall, not T&C. To the victor goes the spoils.

That's not entirely true, as Town & Country struggled to build market share from the day it opened. Granted it had some better anchor stores than Memorial City in its early days, but it always had the difficult freeway access problem from I-10 that was made worse when the beltway and that huge interchange was built. It didn't help that the developers of the mall designed it with parking garages and smaller retail pad sites completely blocking the mall's visibility from the freeway to the point where you wouldn't even know it was there unless you knew where to look. And then there was the design of the mall's interior. With three levels tapered in such a way that made it nearly impossible to see what stores were on the other levels, many businesses failed just from lack of visibility in the mall. Even before Memorial City's renovation when it was still looking very late 1960-ish inside, it was doing better than Town & Country just because it was better laid out, had better visibility, and easier access.

I think the redevelopment of T&C will be a good step for that area and a chance to correct the mistakes of the past on that site.

As for some of the other malls mentioned, like Northline and Northwest, keep in mind that these were some of the very first malls built in Houston. Northline was a nice place to shop until Greenspoint came along. Then it started to turn sour when Willowbrook opened. A similar thing happened with Northwest Mall which predates the Galleria.

As someone else mentioned, mall closings are a pretty common thing these days. Malls just aren't as popular as they used to be, and the first generation malls that were never expanded are too small and outdated to survive today and are being replaced by other development. I know that my shopping habits have changed from being mall-oriented. I do still occassionally hit the Galleria but many times I'd rather go to a center like Rice Village or Meyerland to go to a specific store where I can quickly get in and out of the store I want to shop in. But as with every trend, things come back and I wouldn't be surprised if in another 20-25 years malls are back and we have a repeat of the mall-centered days where the local mall was the place to be.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[gwilson]

Greenspoint Mall could use some help from the City View folks who have come in and made a mockery of MFH's in a flood area, lol.

The business centers in the area are still strong, but the financial support from the mall comes from all the MFH's along Greens Road. This area has flooded (to rediculous degrees) several times in the past 4 years. I lived there for one of them. I decided it was time to stop helping people in the street when the water reached my chest, and I'm 6'5". About 2 hours later, there was a foot of water in my apartment.

City View came in and bought up most of these complexes after the floods in '01, and have done nothing to warn the residents of those issues.

I digress. They could stand to make a lot of money if they improved the mall as well, giving their residents somewhere to shop, eat, and be entertained. They have a captive market, and the incomes of most of those in the City View properties don't have the financial means to shop at most of the places along 1960.

Sharpstown is great, it could use some work, but it is still extremely viable. Can't be in a better location.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[gwilson]

I'm slow...what or who is MFH?

Glen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Multi-Family Homes.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[The Great Hizzy!]

I think Sharpstown has a bit of a headstart on the rejuvenation thing compared to Greenspoint but Greenspoint has more overall potential because there is still a ton of undeveloped land available should someone get really serious about rediscovering the area's original promise.

And I agree that a redo of Greenspoint would be a step in the right direction. The biggest issue right now with Greenspoint is that:

A) There's a poorly thought out Section 8 Apartment complex to the far east, and it has lowered the rental value of neighboring units, so poorer renters take advantage and, unfortunately, where there are poorer residents there is a greater risk of crime.

The crimes that are committed in and around these rental units spill over to the mall in particular because that's where 90% of the people in the rental units are likely to shop. The majority of these people are like you and me but they're stuck with a small group of criminals who have prime opportunity.

C) The crime rate in the area has gone down a bit over the last four or five years but the damage has been done to the area's reputation and builders/retailers aren't exactly anxious to move back into the area.

Sharpstown had these same issues but businesses are moving back into the area, and, as G Wilson pointed out, the neighborhood associations and civic groups are a lot more proactive in reclaiming the area's essence.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[tw2ntyse7en]

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[ssullivan]

I mentioned Northline Mall but no one has commented on it. You think it should stick around or what?

Glen

Northline did have some improvement in the late 1990s when the empty building where Joske's and then Dillard's had been was torn down and the Magic Theaters constructed in its place. Of course there was that nasty building collapse during the construction of part of the mall adjacent to the demolition site and several elderly mall walkers on their morning exercise routine were crushed... But at that time Northline seemed to be getting some new life. The new theaters opened, and Stage Stores converted what was a Beall's clearance outlet store to a Palais Royal. But then the mall's other big anchor, Montgomery Ward, went under.

I think Northline has some potential for redevelopment. There's a very large population base in the surrounding area and not a lot of shopping except for the mall and surrounding strip centers. Granted that population isn't of the highest socioeconomic status but there are a lot of them. I think that's why the mall has held on as long as it has. With light rail coming to the area I could see some increased potential for redevelopment. I don't think people who live downtown or in Midtown or the Museum District are going to hop on the rail to go shop at Northline, but it will likely make it easier for residents of the neighborhoods south of Northline to get to the mall. Those neighborhoods are already very dependent on Metro's bus service, so enhanced service theoretically would make it easier for more people to get to the Northline Transit Center, and that could spill over to the mall as increased business. I do think a Meyerland/Gulfgate-style redevelopment where the mall is turned inside-out might help as well.

[The Great Hizzy!]

METRO planners talk with Northline Mall owners constantly because part of the North Hardy rail line extension is slated to run on the mall's property, and they have to adhere to strict ROW guidelines because the mall owners have ambitious plans to expand and renovate the current mall and tie it into the actual rail station.

Saw a photo of the plan and, given the area, it's pretty impressive.

I just hope it isn't talk or is something that will take forever to input even if it isn't just talk, making it more unlikely as time ticks away.