Why Have So Many Malls In Houston Be Let Go?

[kzseattle]

I mentioned Northline Mall but no one has commented on it. You think it should stick around or what?

Glen

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One reason that hasnt been mentioned and what could also be a major factor behind a dying mall is competition. Town and Country mall was so close to Memorial City that its downfall was inevitable. If you are on I-10 and want to go to Town and Country mall, you have to exit at Gessner. But if you are on Gessner, Memorial City is right there!

Similarly, Westwood mall was right next to Sharpstown which itself is close to Galleria.

Folks in the north can go to the Woodlands mall and those in Champions area can go to Willowbrook at the expense of Greespoint, and it doesnt help that Greenspoint has a bad reputation.

So the dying malls need to reinvent themselves and do something unique or innovative to draw customers. Therefore, Town and Country created Town and Country village to provide a different kind of shopping experience.

In general, however, all malls in bad areas/neighborhoods dont seem to be doing good and so I am not sure if rennovation would help much.

I think some good locations for a new mall could be Bear Creek/Cy-fair area (perhaps on 290), Kingwood area and Clear Lake/Pearland area. As far as I know, these areas are farthest from existing malls.

[bachanon]

it's unfortunate that greenspoint mall doesn't capitalize on the close proximity of the office buildings and hotels to it's immediate east. the daytime activity and business travelers across the street are an asset.

considering the growing demographic of middle income homeowners near greenspoint, i believe (IMHO) that greenspoint could be redeveloped a la gulfgate, (although that would not be my design preference).

[citykid09]

One reason that hasnt been mentioned and what could also be a major factor behind a dying mall is competition. Town and Country mall was so close to Memorial City that its downfall was inevitable. If you are on I-10 and want to go to Town and Country mall, you have to exit at Gessner. But if you are on Gessner, Memorial City is right there!

Similarly, Westwood mall was right next to Sharpstown which itself is close to Galleria.

Folks in the north can go to the Woodlands mall and those in Champions area can go to Willowbrook at the expense of Greespoint, and it doesnt help that Greenspoint has a bad reputation.

So the dying malls need to reinvent themselves and do something unique or innovative to draw customers. Therefore, Town and Country created Town and Country village to provide a different kind of shopping experience.

In general, however, all malls in bad areas/neighborhoods dont seem to be doing good and so I am not sure if rennovation would help much.

I think some good locations for a new mall could be Bear Creek/Cy-fair area (perhaps on 290), Kingwood area and Clear Lake/Pearland area. As far as I know, these areas are farthest from existing malls.

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How long have you been in Houston??????????

[kzseattle]

How long have you been in Houston??????????

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About a couple of months. Why?

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Guest danax]

As for Greenspoint, how is it that area is not booming with hotels & restaurants from the proximity to the airport. I've never understood that.

Glen

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Don't forget that ever-expanding restaurant row on both 45 feeders just north of there. It might seem odd for a non-local to have so many restaurants up in that spot but I'm guessing the airport visitors have a lot to do with that. Not sure how they ended up over there and not closer though.

[bachanon]

ok.......i can't take it! the obvious absence of.......do i have to say it.

http://www.town-center.com/about.cfm

http://www.town-center.com/map.cfm

http://www.marketstreet-thewoodlands.com/index.htm

newbies.....take i-45 north or the hardy toll road to the woodlands parkway. also, there are metro park and rides lots you can find via daily metro routes and town center shuttles from the park and ride lots to the mall perimeter, woodlands waterway, and market street.

sorry, couldn't help myself.

also, the "restaurant row" north of greenspoint does well because of the massive amounts of apartments along ella and cypress station, and, single family residences along 1960. there are hundreds (possibly thousands) of new homes being built on the east side of i-45, south of 1960 and north of airtex. the homes range in price from the 90s-150s. ergo, my opinion that greenspoint will have a rebound and or redevelopment in the next few years.

[kzseattle]

KZ I agree. Also, you remind me of myself about two years ago, when I first moved here. How many times in the last few weeks since you moved here, have you just been driving in your car with a map out, going from one end of a street to the other, just to see what's there?

Glen

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That is exactly what I have been doing!! My wife thinks I am crazy driving around with a map but it's strange how this city grows on you. It may be because of the great diversity of neighborhoods and geopgraphy around the city.

Indeed, with a good map, you feel the city is on your fingertips.

By the way, while looking for the bookstore, I went to Montrose area for the first time today. I didnt know an area that funky existed in this town. I noticed several nice looking restuarants and unique shops. The area still seems to be in transition since some parts are upscale and some parts have yet to catch up.

[rps324]

That is exactly what I have been doing!! My wife thinks I am crazy driving around with a map but it's strange how this city grows on you. It may be because of the great diversity of neighborhoods and geopgraphy around the city.

Indeed, with a good map, you feel the city is on your fingertips.

By the way, while looking for the bookstore, I went to Montrose area for the first time today. I didnt know an area that funky existed in this town. I noticed several nice looking restuarants and unique shops. The area still seems to be in transition since some parts are upscale and some parts have yet to catch up.

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For Montrose, or a lot of Houston's inner-loop for that matter, some parts being upscale and some parts needing to "catch up" is not a transition, it's about the only constant.

As for malls,

Poor old Northline. It makes Northwest look like the Galleria.

Did Mall of Mainland ever really get off the ground? It has been a long time since I have been in that one, but other than the anchors, it seemed pretty empty best I remember.

What about Almeda? I haven't been in that one in years either. Any comments?

Last I heard they were going to convert Greenspoint Mall into a conference center because of the access to the airports. I don't see Greenspoint turning around at all. What is there to turn around? It's all apartments, and you have to give the Cityview people an "A" for effort. They pumped so much money into advertising, renovations, landscaping, doing everything to make them really nice. It only went so far. It never shook off the reputation for crime and problems. If it didn't turn around with this last well organized effort by Lincoln Property Company, then what is going to turn it around?

I have heard that Katy Mills is not doing as well as the developers had hoped. I like the outlet stores, but not the drive. Whenever I have made the trek, I have seen a lot of people I know that live inner-loop shopping there. That totally surprises me. Is it just me, but I wonder why they don't take some of these dying malls like Greenspoint, and instead of having the same anchors and stores as nearby newer malls, (Deerbrook, Woodlands, Willowbrook), turn them into outlet type malls. It just seems like it might be some sort of adaptive re-use.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[tw2ntyse7en]

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[kzseattle]

For Montrose, or a lot of Houston's inner-loop for that matter, some parts being upscale and some parts needing to "catch up" is not a transition, it's about the only constant.

...

I have heard that Katy Mills is not doing as well as the developers had hoped.  I like the outlet stores, but not the drive.  Whenever I have made the trek,  I have seen a lot of people I know that live inner-loop shopping there.  That totally surprises me.  Is it just me, but I wonder why they don't take some of these dying malls like Greenspoint, and instead of having the same anchors and stores as nearby newer malls, (Deerbrook, Woodlands, Willowbrook), turn them into outlet type malls.  It just seems like it might be some sort of adaptive re-use.

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I wouldnt think that inner-loop is constant these days. I would imagine, or call it my wish, that with the renewed interest in inner-loop and higher demand for land for new condos, town homes and apartments, the areas needing to "catch up" would diminish if not disappear. If the price of land goes up, it wouldn

[kzseattle]

Hey KZ - you'll know you're finally here when you have time off, and can't think of anything to go drive through and check out for the first time. This hit me about a year ago. I had an opportunity to go driving, and I realized there was nothing left in the Greater Houston Metro Area that I wanted to check out! I still need to go snooping around Kingwood, Clearlake, Tomball & Conroe some more, but as for Houston - I feel right at home. As for my wife - she still thinks I'm crazy

Glen

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Yeah, one drawback of exploring the area too quickly is that soon you run out of places to explore. However, Houston area is so big that it is going to take a while to fully explore it. And, of course, when you run out of things to see in Houston, you can peek into its neighbors such as Clear Lake.

Besides, the city seems to be on the move with all the constructions and new things going around the town so you would always want to check out a new restuarant, shopping/entertainment center or a neighborhood.

[ssullivan]

I hope that Katy Mills does well. I like that mall. It could be that the closure of Jillian

[ssullivan]

Just wait until the gay parade - then you'll see some funky Orrrrr... just drive up Grant St. (one street east of Montrose off of Westheimer) on a Friday night and you can see men in leather and men dressed like women - seriously.

Glen

Haha. Now not all of us who visit those bars wear leather or dress like women. :-)

Seriously though, Montrose has always been one of my favorite neighborhoods in the city. There's such a clash of different cultures and communities there, and for the most part everyone pretty much gets along. And some of my favorite restaurants in Houston are there, not to mention a couple of my favorite bars, my favorite dance club, and my church. I do think the non-food retail establishments in the neighborhood have changed for the worse though. I really do miss a few stores like Crossroads Market that were there when I moved to Houston that are no more.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[kzseattle]

KB Toys (not affiliated with KB Homes) is also in Chapter 11 and has been closing a lot of stores nationwide. They've been hit hard by the emergence of discounters like Wal-Mart taking over the toy market. It's the same thing that's hurt Toys R Us and pretty much killed off FAO Schwartz completely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope Toys R Us or a similar business stays so I dont have to go to Walmart for everything. They basically sell junk in a junk yard. Walmart doesnt nearly have as many selections of toys as Toys R Us and, IMO, the prices arent any different either.

[N Judah]

I think some good locations for a new mall could be Bear Creek/Cy-fair area (perhaps on 290), Kingwood area and Clear Lake/Pearland area. As far as I know, these areas are farthest from existing malls.

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People in the Bear Creek/Cy fair area just go to Willowbrook. For that matter, people in Copperfield go to Willowbrook. Hell, I know of people in Katy who prefer going all the way to Willowbrook for their shopping. What can I say? Willowbrook rocks.

[westguy]

New malls seem like wasted efforts since the era of that form of retail is almost over. Everything is in big boxes or strip centers surrounded by parking lots. No one wants to have to walk everywhere.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I remember from past visits to Houston in the early 90s when they advertised the coming of the "Copperfield Mall" at FM 529 and Hwy 6.

Obviously that fell through.

[citykid09]

I remember from past visits to Houston in the early 90s when they advertised the coming of the  "Copperfield Mall" at FM 529 and Hwy 6.

Obviously that fell through.

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Were are you from?

[The Great Hizzy!]

Originally from Miami, FL. Now live in Westchase.

[kzseattle]

New malls seem like wasted efforts since the era of that form of retail is almost over. Everything is in big boxes or strip centers surrounded by parking lots. No one wants to have to walk everywhere.

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I dont think everyone goes to malls just for shopping. Many go there just to walk around and window shop. People dont like to walk around in parking lots, especially when it is hot and humid. One would go to strip a center only if one is headed to a specific store and has a specific item in mind. However, most want to compare and contrast what's available in a variety of stores including Foleys, Dillards, Gap, Express etc which they can only do so in a mall. This is precisely why online retailing for items such as clothes, shoes, jewelry, cosmetics, fragrances etc didnt take off as expected because many 1) malls have a larger variety of these items and 2) customers arent interested only in buying but also in the experience of buying.

As for big-box retailers, I think most of the items sold by such retailers (electronics, home improvement gear, furniture, groceries etc) arent usually available in a mall. As for stores such as Target and Walmart, they do carry many of the items available in a mall but they are in a different kind of markets. I cant see how can they compete with malls because of 1) lack of variety 2) lack of quality 3) lack of brand names 4) dull shopping experience. I dont remember ever buying clothes or shoes from these stores.

Malls could take on different forms, such as an open-air or lifestyle center or a mix of both indoor and outdoor sections but I dont see them going away completely. Too many malls in close proximity is another story and, in that case, the underperforming ones simply die out.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

Jillians has been replaced by Dave and Busters. As for Katy Mills not doing well.....

Katy Mills planning strong '05

By: Claudia Richter, Staff 01/05/2005

New stores, hotel opening to boost traffic at mall, officials say

new store openings, tourism from Mexico and the "enduring popularity of Katy Mills" are all combating worries that planned reconstruction of the Katy Freeway will drive customers away from the Katy shopping and entertainment complex, Mills officials said.

Katy Mills General Manager Mace Hirt reported that the mall's vehicle traffic during the holidays "was better this year, and store managers have reported their numbers are up, as well."

Recent store closings at the Mills center, located at Pin Oak and I-10, left many wondering if the mall is suffering financially.

"Some leases have expired, and seasonal type stores come and go," Hirt said, "but these have already been replaced by new tenants who have signed lease agreements and will open later in the year."

Neiman Marcus opened a store in the mall early last month, he said, and has attracted "upscale clientele which, demographically speaking, adds to our reputation as a destination mall," Hirt said.

Katy Mills started off the new year by hiring a new marketing director, Celena McGuill, who has worked for three other shopping centers on the east side of Houston including Pasadena Town Center, Mall of the Mainland and Mainland Crossing.

"Celena is a great fit and we are very excited to have her on our team," said Hirt said.

In addition to new stores and attractions, a new hotel close to the mall is slated to open this April.

Mall officials also hope the hotel's opening will increase tourism in the Katy area.

Construction of the portion of the Katy Freeway near Katy Mills began in the summer of 2003 and is scheduled to be complete by the summer of 2006. Construction on all portions of the Katy Freeway is scheduled to be complete by spring of 2009.

^Katy Mills, IMO, is a mini-Galleria.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

Jillians has closed. In its place.....

LATEST NEWS

October 11, 2004

New owner plans to close Jillian's in Texas

The new owner of a Jillian's Entertainment center in Katy, Texas, plans to close the club after it completes the purchase from Louisville-based Jillian's Entertainment Holdings Inc., according to a report by the Houston Business Journal, a sister publication of Business First.

The amusement center, which serves as an anchor tenant at Katy Mills Mall, is scheduled to close after it is acquired by Dave & Buster's Inc. The mall is located in a Houston suburb.

Jillian's Entertainment, which filed for protection under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code on May 23, is selling the majority of its 35 restaurants and clubs to Dave & Busters (NYSE: DAB) and Massachusetts-based Gemini Investors III for about $65 million.

The sale has been approved by U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Western District of Kentucky, which is overseeing Jillian's reorganization.

A spokesman for Dallas-based Dave & Buster's told the Houston Business Journal that the firm will acquire and continue to operate another Jillian's location in Houston.

"Dave & Buster's is buying the assets of the Katy location, but has no intention of operating from that location," said company spokesman Jeff Elliott.

Executives with the publicly traded Dave & Buster's would not comment further, citing a confidentiality agreement.

Jillian's Chief Financial Officer Greg Stevens said Dave & Buster's is assuming the lease for the Houston location but, "in the Katy Mills location, they are not taking over the lease."

The Jillian's locations in Houston and Katy are the only two the company has in Texas. The 55,000-square-foot Katy site opened in 1999, while the Houston complex opened in 2000.

The Dave & Buster's deal to acquire the locations is expected to close by the end of October.

Jillian's announced last week that it also has closed its club in Rochester, N.Y., because the company has been unable to find a buyer for the location.

^From the report, you can tell that I was clearing wrong, but Dave and Busters might consider working in that location. Great oppurtunity, IMO, for them.

[ssullivan]

I hope Toys R Us or a similar business stays so I dont have to go to Walmart for everything. They basically sell junk in a junk yard. Walmart doesnt nearly have as many selections of toys as Toys R Us and, IMO, the prices arent any different either.

Me too, but then I avoid Wal-Mart for everything anyway. I did hear a report on NPR's Marketplace before Christmas that Toys R Us was doing much better this Christmas than in the last few years, and seemed to be hurting Wal-Mart on toy sales. Apparently Toys R Us got the brilliant idea of striking deals with some toy manufacturers for exclusive sales arrangements where certain toys would only be sold at Toys R Us. They also put in some new promotional gimicks and tried to recharacterize their stores as a place where you could play with things before buying. It seems to have worked, as Wal-Mart was being forced to slash prices to drastically low levels to generate sales before Christmas, which was hurting their profits. Hopefully that trend will continue, and in areas other than toys.

[VicMan]

That reminds me, I'm making a story with my friend about six teenagers from Westside High School and Stratford High School who end up going to Sharpstown Mall... their classmates predict that they will get in trouble.

"(Stratford High School)

Feifei Wu: Where did Jack and his friends go?

Sam Johnston: He went to Sharpstown Mall. Why are you asking?

Ray Rayburn: Those idiots! They are gonna get shot there!"

[Hunter]

Yeah, one drawback of exploring the area too quickly is that soon you run out of places to explore. However, Houston area is so big that it is going to take a while to fully explore it. And, of course, when you run out of things to see in Houston, you can peek into its neighbors such as Clear Lake.

Besides, the city seems to be on the move with all the constructions and new things going around the town so you would always want to check out a new restuarant, shopping/entertainment center or a neighborhood.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I spend a lot of time driving around this city and after years of doing this I have yet to run out of new places to explore and discover. Just the other day I found a neighborhood tucked way back where every street had the same name. (No joke) The only way to tell where you were was by the house numbers.There was only one way in and one way out if you were in a car. I later found out that thre were several little areas in the same subdivision that were just like that. Wierd.

[kjb434]

About the street names: Harris County and particulary Houston has so many streets that you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get an original name. The city plats and the county plats can't have duplicates.

I remember one time, a developer didn't give a co-worker the names they wanted for the subdivision when it was time to plat, so my co-worker started making up stuff and then named the main road after himself. It subdivision was platted. Right when construction started the developer finally decided on some names and had them all changed. I think he left one in there for my co-worker.

Since houston doesn't have a general naming convention like numbering streets (only for a section of the city) or using states and letter, developers have had to name everything. Not many left for them use anymore.

Cities like Galveston and Miami have naming conventions. Many other cities do also, just those two came to mind.