fernz

From the HBJ, I don't have access to the whole article:

"The Four Oaks Place office complex may soon be more appropriately named Five Oaks Place.
The owner of the 1.8 million-square-foot office complex in the Galleria area is looking at spending between $100 million and $120 million to develop a new office building at 1550 Post Oak Blvd., where a 24 Hour Fitness is currently located"

Webcam:
http://oxblue.com/open/transwestern/5oaks

Renderings, and article from 10/13:

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/breaking-ground/2013/10/photos-developers-break-ground-on-bhp.html

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8507440817_0fefe9fa75_b.jpg

http://www.justintowart.com/wp-content/uploads/Towart-Work13-Arch-Illustration-40.jpg

http://www.justintowart.com/wp-content/uploads/Towart-Work13-Arch-Illustration-42.jpg

http://www.justintowart.com/wp-content/uploads/Towart-Work13-Arch-Illustration-43.jpg

The bell tower has been topped off. It has a similar gold cross to the dome's.

Hines is the only local firm that has the potential to simultaneuously change the course of local development while garnering the attention of other more interesting property developers.

I think you are overlooking Hanover. If you look at what they did with lofts at post oak and seven riverway, and what they are planning on doing at boulevard place, they are taking apartments to a new level of quality. Only finger is doing something similar, but they don't have the national presence that hanover does.

Can't wait to see what this apartment tower will look like. I am holding out hope that it will have a graceful curve.

it will

The renderings that I have seen do not have any sort of ornamental top to the building on the Hines 47. It is 47 floors, thats it. And they have said it will have street level retail.

The renderings and model I saw did not have any kind of spire, it is a flat-roofed building. However, at about level 36 there is a big garden terrace that seems to take a 5 story bite out of the building, and at that point the massing of the building changes and becomes two interlocking volumes. Pretty neat looking building, at least compared to what has been built in Houston in the last ten years. Like I said, no Pennzoil, but I nice building nonetheless.

I don't mean any offense to anyone here, but I am amazed how little architectural knowledge there is among the members of this forum, especially for a forum about architecture.

Anyone who has seen this building or pictures of it and still thinks that they might add a skin to it has no understanding of the significance of what is called exposed concrete, or even better, architectural concrete.

Even though they did a terrible job with this building, the concrete on the facade, with the little holes and the defined reveals and pattern, is considered a premium finish. Yes, Hines paid a premium for this concrete. It is not raw or unfinished as suggested by some. It is a premium, architectural grade concrete wall. It will not be covered up by any skin (unless Hines holds the contractor responsible for doing such a bad job on the concrete finish and makes them cover it up)

And yes it is plain concrete, it could be much better, but is not half as bad as described previously. I for one think it is much better than that fake stone looking parking garage attached to the Commerce Towers, and better than many parking garages in the city. It is clean, modern, honest and makes no apologies. It is a parking garage than is not disguised as something else, and it reflects the true identity of the city, one that is 100% car centric.

From Fernz' description in the other topic, it sounds like this will look similar to the Houston City Centre project on the Shamrock site two blocks up. Not bad if you ask me. Both are 3/4 block projects, in this case saving wrapping around the Stowers Building. So would it be reasonable to guess parking on the quarter block on Fannin adjacent to Stowers, and the tower section on the half block along Main. This could be real nice.

I am sorry for misleading you. I did not mean angling as in the City Center project where the angle is on the elevation. I meant angling as seen in floor plan, meaning that it is not a square box. I would say the shape is "similar" to the PanAm building in NY. It is all curtain wall though, very slick, without any strong bands or patterns, as most of the buildings you can see on the architect's website (particularly this one: http://www.pickardchilton.com/pagProject.a...#39;&ID=43)

I saw a printed version of the rendering, so I apologize, I have no links or images to post. But I'll say it again, it is a nice, slick building, much better that their last tower (Calpine Center) but not another Pennzoil.

Great! I'm assuming this is the block with the West Building and Montagu Hotel that Fernz was describing here.

Montagu Hotel topic.

I bet it is. I'm surprised they are willing to go at it without a tenant; I guess they want to beat the Discovery Tower out of the ground. The rendering I saw looked pretty slick, it's an all glass tower with slightly angled walls, and a terrace garden two-thirds up the building.

Does EVERYTHING have to have a financial return.

No, sometimes real estate companies get into projects that involve huge financial risk without expecting any financial return, just for fun. Maybe they built this parking garage only to enjoy reading the comments on this forum!

I just read this post for the first time and have a few things to add, or repeat:

-Violet, I'm sorry, you ended up with the short stick on this one.

-Yes, it is very disappointing to see Hines do this. Little by little, they are abandoning the philosophy their founder, Gerald Hines.

-For those who said that Hines should somehow be responsible for their deceit, I am sorry to inform you that it's not possible. Under our no zoning laws, their promises were always empty promises. They cannot be held accountable for not delivering on them.

-However, zoning is no guarantee that this could have been stopped. If parking garages were allowed in downtown by-right in a zoning ordinance (which is likely), the parking would only need to meet safety codes to get a permit. Zoning only helps when the developer is requesting a variance/rezoning/site plan approval/PUD or whatever you want to call the process that goes beyond by-right development and therefore triggers public hearings.

-Stop bashing Niche, he is giving constructive ideas on how to get this resolved. You can choose to ignore him if you want, or disprove his logic if you think he's wrong.

-Bad PR does help. It has not stopped McDonald's or KFC, but it has caused them to add healthful chioces to their menus and to eliminate trans-fats. A well organized PR campaign showcasing Hines lies and self of interest for their hometown would get those executives worried about investors/tenants backlash, at least locally. It won't stop any Pennzol building employee from parking in the garage, but in a couple of years when there are three or four office building under construction in Downtown fighting for tenants, Hines will not want any bad PR. True, Hines will only break ground once they sign a big pre-lease, but they will still be 40-50% vacant and will be fighting for tenants with Crescent, Trammell and Brookfields if they all move forward with current plans.

-Violet, you have another option, albeit an expensive one. Sue Hines. Not for lying, not for building blight in Downtown, but for infringing on your rights - actually, only your lower level neighbors could get away with this. Under the property right laws in this country, you are allowed to certain rights. I am no attorney but I think you can at very least claim that the light is a nuisance on your property which denies you "enjoyment" of your property, one of the four rights you have as a real property owner.

If anyone has any pictures please post for those of us that don't live in Houston.

June 22, 2007, 8:02AM

Plan offered to save 2 city icons

Panel suggests listing endangered River Oaks and Alabama sites as landmarks

By MIKE SNYDER

Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4911051.html

I am a fool for thinking that Weingarten will take this into consideration, but I can still hope so.

It would just be disgusting and sick if they tore down these landmarks or OSW, etc...

The article is no longer in the Chronicle website. Can anyone tell me what the proposal was?

You're kidding right? Shamrock is dead and THIS is going to go up?

Anyone have any additional info? I'm about ready to do a happy dance.

There is a post somewhere in this forum about Hines having two projects in the works in Downtown, and my understanding is that this one is second in line; so who knows how long it will take for this block to be developed. Also, there is no evidence that "this" is Hines project. Who knows how old this rendering is, it might as well be from a study done before the Shamrock. Hines is usually very good at not revealing what they are working on, and I would be surprised if they authorized their architects to post their building online. However, ANYTHING Hines does will be much better than the Shamrock.

No, I thought the Shamrock site was closer to the inner-core of the city.

Nope. That's it right there. On Main Street, across the street from the Chase parking garage and catty corner from the Rice Hotel.

From SSP:

Kobi Karp has updated the site map layouts that were dead links for the renderings..

That's the Shamrock site! That block is supposedly being developed by Hines.

I forgot ther is a link for progress and updates:

http://www.diogh.org/cocathedral/tour/index.htm

And here's teh link to the ABC newscast. There are two videos and a slide show.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=...amp;id=5391309#

On the news last night they showed the big stained glass windows ready to be installed.

Can't wait until the do the tower

Do you remember which news?

Here are some recent pics....

I agree the towers look nice. I don't have a problem with the parking lot in front. I can't see Post Oak becoming some major pedestrian boulevard, and perhaps the sight of parking in front will make BLVD more attractive to drivers going by.

They do look nice, but they look too commercial. Isn't the tall one supposed to be apartments? I bet these are just massing representations and the towers themselves (at least the residential one) will not look anything like it.

Is Wulfe developing all of it or is he only doing the retail and partnering with other developers who do have office / residential experience to do those portions? There has been talk on this forum that Hanover will be doing the residential component. That would make it even more likely that the towers will look very different from what's shown on the renderings. I don't think it's a coincidence that the renderings show a lot more detail on the retail components than on the towers.

As for the parking lot on Post Oak, Wulfe knows from his experience that retailers in Houston will not sign a lease if they don't have parking in front of their storefronts. It's a business decision that has nothing to do with the urban character of Post Oak.

It seems they had more money than expected. In addition to the bell tower, someone mentioned that the church was spending a huge amount on upgrading the interior, including some expensive Italian chandeliers.

The interior artwork and furnishings always had a separate budget. Bishop Fiorenza was always very careful in all his statements to make it clear that the costs were for the building only, not including furniture, stained glass, sacred objects or artwork. Therefore, I would not consider the Italian chandeliers an "upgrade". As far as I know, the interior walls are all plaster now. I believe the original design was for stone walls, but was revised when the basement was deleted to save money. The idea was that in the future, when more money might be available, the walls could be upgraded to stone.

fernz, I just checked with my architect buddy, and for new construction, he says you have to have dedicated off-street parking. As for existing structures, you do not have to provide any additional parking, though. Regardless of the requirement, you are correct that a developer would be a fool not to provide adequate parking. This is exactly what causes some buildings to rent quickly, and others to sit vacant.

Not to drag on this issue, but have your architect buddy look into Chapter 26 (my mistake, it's not Chapter 42) of the code of ordinances. You can even check it yourself, it's online at http://www.houstontx.gov/codes/index.html

Section 26-3 (d) states that "...the central business district has in place an adequate level of parking and loading facilities and it is hereby exempted from the requirements of this chapter." (you can look at the beginning of the chapter for the definition of the CBD)

How do you think a building with huge parking requirements such as the new Catholic Cathedral was permitted with ZERO parking spaces provided?

H-Town, I believe code requires parking be provided for new tower construction. It does not have to be built into the building (it can be reserved in an adjacent garage, for instance), but the developer does have to account for a specified number of spaces per 1,000 feet of office space.

There is an exception on Chapter 42 (Houston development ordinance) that allows construction in Downtown with NO PARKING at all. But TC would be crazy to build a Class A office tower with no parking.

Except they're going to have real stores... house hold names, not just a giant food court for the Houston Center.

Park Shops used to have household name stores, and they left because the demand isn't there!

You should do more research. Kobi Karp is HOT right now in South Florida and in Vegas. Here is a break down.

COMPLETED IN THE LAST 5 YEARS (15 towers)

42 floor LaPerla in Sunny Isles Beach

21 floor Bridgewater in North Bay Village

13 floor Los Suenos in Miami

27 floor Meridian in Sunny Isles Beach

14 floor King David Condos in Sunny Isles Beach

18 floor Bel-Aire on the Ocean in Miami Beach

26 floor Grand Venetian in Miami Beach

13 floor Hilton Marina Bay in Sunny Isles Beach

20 floor twins at the Parc Central in Aventura

25 floor twins and a 17 floor bldg at the Intra Coastal Yacht Club in Sunny Isles Beach

12 floor Golden Bay Club in Sunny Isles Beach

15 floor twins at the Vue in Fort Lauderdale

UNDER CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW (15 towers)

26 floor twins at the Tao in Sunrise

20 floor twins at the ONE in Las Vegas

15 floor Nobe Bay in Miami Beach

53 floor Jade in Sunny Isles beach

24 floor Sole in Sunny Isles Beach

22 floor Mei in Miami Beach

20 floor Eloquence in North Bay Village

18 floor The Lexi in North Bay Village

26 floor Star Lofts in Miami

19 floor Caribbean

25 floor twins at the Duo

19 floor St. Tropez

APPROVED (14 buildings)

One West with 34, 32, and 32 story towers

Sapphire with twin 12 floor towers

Tiziano with 15 floors

Belaire on the Bay with 15 floors

Prisma Lofts with 16 floors

1101 Brickell with SEVENTY FLOOR floors

Brickell FlatIron with SEVENTY floors

St. Tropez with two more 19 story towers

The Chelsea with FIFTY THREE floors

The Park Lane with 33 floors

The DaVinci with 27 floors

PROPOSED (16 buildings)

41 floor Lima

32 floor Ocean Resort

30 floor Westin Diplomat

15 floor Driftwood

22 floor 5th Avenue Lofts

70 and 50 floor South Biscayne Blvd

twin 31 story Arts Condos

twin 19 story St. Tropez

twin ONE HUNDRED and SIX story Empire World Towers

41,33 and 22 floor Electra Towers

The architect's success in South Florida and Vegas doesn't mean much. If you can show me a similar list of the developer's track record in the Houston market, then I'll think there is a possibility. I have worked in three different architecture firms in the last ten years, and all three have an extensive list of "projects" as part of their marketing material that are a collection of real projects and a range of feasibility studies, competition entries, or mere marketing for owners looking to sell their land.

Besides, looking at all the potential towers planned for DT, all are for office space because that is where the demand is. With the Finger tower going up and the HP residential scrapped, I would bet that the numbers are not there to support additional apartments or condos in DT, espacially for a luxury 50-story tower.

Just like everyone else I hope this one is for real, but something tells me it's not.

Architects typically will not publish their designs without owner's approval, and that happens once the project has been anounced or canceled. As secretive as the potential developers for the next DT towers have been - especially Hines - I doubt they would let the rendering to be made public.

Did anyone notice how most projects on that site are renderings? Architects love to post renderings of projects that never made it past schematic design because they are still their original design, before the owner and marketing gurus mess it up.

Anyone interested in a preview?