NDtexan

Screw the projections and the meaning of the word projection. Anyone no what the most recent totals are?

Does anyone have some solid numbers for the downtown residential population of both cities that is recent? The numbers that i found from houstondowntown.com are 3,800(says it's a current figure, but no date given), and 3,100 from downtowndallas.org(but i think that's a 2004 number). downtowndallas.org also projects over 10,000 residents downtown by 2010. I'm not sure what houston's projections are.

I think the biggest factor of whether or not Victory might be classified as downtown at some point within the next 10 years is the redevelopment of the West End. If the West End can be lulled out its slumber (perhaps as a spillover effect from Victory) then there would truly be a connection between Victory and the core of the CBD. That along with a creative plan to address the WR underpass would really bring the two together, but who knows if that'll happen. If that doesn't happen, reconstructing WR as a tunnel will get the job done too. ha.

Alright, that was so biased one way, I might as well try to bring it back the other way. I think the diversity of Dallas' buildings works amazingly well to give downtown a distinction and character that Houston's completely lacks. There are seven very different towers in DT Dallas (BOA, Renaissance, Fountain Place, Chase, JPMorganChase, Trammel Crow, and Reunion) that really catch the onlookers' attention. I really don't understand why having a variety of architechtural styles would be conceived as a negative thing. I think Dallas gets more bang for its buck in terms of beauty and awe - especially at night - for each of its major towers than a lot of other skylines. The one valid criticism of dt Dallas that I see is that the buildings do seem isolated from one another at ground level as each has way too much surrounding surface parking. On the other hand, I'm always surprised to see, either in person or in pictures, how underwhelming Houston's skyline is. The one building that I think is truly striking in Houston isn't even in the CBD (Williams Tower). Houston has far more buildings that add to downtown's density but do very little to visually enhance the landscape. Houston's - and Texas' - tallest tower, the JPMorganChase Tower, is flat-out bland and uninspired. It's too bad the developers of Dallas' BOA didn't add another 85 feet or so. Houston does get credit for BOA Center and Heritage Plaza, but they don't do enough to give Houston a stand-out downtown. This is all coming from a Dallasite of course, but I think it's the truth. ps - I just went through emporis' first page of Houston's high-rises, and it totally confirmed what I said about Houston being bland and underwhelming

Sweet dude, it's nice to hear from 14 year olds that are excited about their city. Maybe there's hope for our youth after all.

So according to your sources, Trump's looking at land on the west side of 35 near Industrial Blvd. not too far from the huge jail complex? I sure hope not, because if this project ever comes near fruition, it'll need to be in downtown. Having new high-rise construction outside of DT and outside of Victory/Uptown really doesn't seem to make sense at this point - there's little to no interest in that area for mixed use development right now (if the Trinity project ever gets rolling, then it'll be a totally different story). Plus, the negative impact on DT could be huge...missing out on a new major high-rise again would only further enforce the stigma that downtown Dallas is still dead as a doornail. But you were right, I'm not optimistic when it comes to Trump, so there's really no reason to get worked up about it. And there's no reason to keep straying from the topic of this thread, so I'll stop.

The Mondrian is on Central not I-35, so you've either got the highway or the building wrong. Chances are you've got the entire thing wrong, as it seems Trump is all about floating rumors to generate interest in his speaking engagements that he charges for...whatever the case might actually be, if you haven't already, please post this information at dallasmetropolis where it can be discussed properly.

Wrong. WFAA has the best newscast I've seen anywhere. They are a little overexcited about their new Victory studio, but who cares. They still have the best looking set, the best anchors, and the best production in all of Dallas and maybe in all of the country.

First, when I said the DFW subforum, I was indicating this very subforum that we're both posting in right now. Gary, only those of us who are insecure here on this forum see everything as bashing, badmouthing, dissing, etc. I enjoy reading people's claims and then the rebuttals and supporting statements made to affirm or deny those claims. Many times it does turn into a flame war, sometimes it doesn't. Most of the time, I stop reading when folks like dallasboi, midtowncoog, 713 to 214, or houstonfella blurt in something blatantly biased and/or uninformed. Sometimes I continue to read those posts simply for their comedic/entertainment value. The Dallas forum doesn't really have a good subforum for non-DFW items. It's there, but rarely are posts made in that subforum. That's just the way the forum was initially designed. HAIF has a much better orgainzed set of subforums for issues within and without Houston. In my opinion, the "war" in this thread started when 713 to 214 made a few dumb comments in his refutation to tierwestah's nightlife review. Those commest aside, this thread really didn't get out of hand until you chimed in. That is why I made a comment. I was learning something about both cities by filtering the initial posts in this thread. Like I said before, you're little "prayer" blew this thing up. The thread probably needs to be locked now....

Honestly Gary. Before you began your inane rant, I was somewhat enjoying this thread (except for some of the mindless arguing between 713 to 214 and tierwestah). Unfortunately, you've butted in and blown up this thread with your little prayer for Dallas posters to go away. In my opinion, you're a cancer to the DFW sub-forum. You're comments come off as insecure and defensive of Houston, and you always attack not just the city of Dallas but the posters supporting Dallas (Dallasites or not). I don't post very often in threads because I enjoy reading and learning from other people's various perspectives and experiences in both cities. I tend to post when comments are made that anger me. And I'm sure you've noticed, Gary, that many of my posts are directed towards you. Like always, my comments are not personal attacks. I just feel that sometimes, but NOT ALWAYS, you're criticisms of certain posts are just as erroneous as those you cite.

Your opinion of Dallas is all well and fine, but earlier, I was disagreeing with your conclusion that most people would favor Houston over Dallas as WorldlyMan did. That's all I was arguing. Like I said, I think people's preferences would probably be based more on friends and family than the cities themselves. Now I'll address what you just posted. I think your generalization of Dallas' condescending persona is short-sighted at best. Sure, North Dallas and the Park Cities do have their share of wealthy residents, but as a lower middle class North Dallasite, I feel that attitude is not the prevalent one. If you get out and see all of Dallas beyond Uptown, the Park Cities, Preston Hollow, and other affluent neighborhoods, you'll encounter down-to-earth hard-working folks. Plus, a great majority of the wealthy people I do know(who are aware of my family's economic status) are not snobby at all. Many rich people won't blink twice or act any differently when they realize that you live in a house about an eigth the size of theirs. Often, I'm surprised by the size of the houses people live in after getting to know them. Now, I do admit there are some upper class people who are nasty and exclusive(as there are everywhere), but they definitely make up a minority. And if you spend enough time here, you'd realize that. While Dallas is not predominantly blue collar, it is absolutely wrong to give it a universal pompous and arrogant personality as you do Gary.

Gary, Gary, Gary... Thanks for giving us all a good laugh. How could you assume such a thing. The fact is is that very few people, yourself included I'm sure, have experienced all of what both cities have to offer. I doubt that those who have spent a good deal of time in Dallas and Houston would favor one city over the other by a wide margin. I would suspect it'd be around 50-50. Most people would probably prefer the city where they have the closest friends and where they are closer to family. Anyhow Gary, we all know you love Houston...just don't generalize your feelings to a majority of the overall population. It doesn't add anything to the thread.

I was looking at some pictures of Houston's Galleria on SSC and couldn't help but noticing that it looked incredibly similar to Dallas' Galleria. I'm assuming that's not really a coincidence...so what is the story behind the two malls' development?

Houstonfella, you don't fail to amaze me with your ludicrous and bipolar posts. You say you try to mend fences with Dallas folks, and at the same time you bring in some dumbass horse slaughtering article and imply everyone in Dallas has got the horses' blood on their hands. What the hell are you really saying? I personally can't stand your posts. Even when you're repressing your desire to suck Houston's appendage, it's obvious you're absolutely dying to tell everyone its the 4th largest city...I'd love to see folks in NY, California, and Chicago read your posts. You sound like a pretentious prat. This post isn't meant to be offensive, just entertaining.

From a map on the Victory Dallas website: 01-Service Retail 02-Sports Restaurant 03-Victory Tavern 04-Progressive Casual Dining 05-Quiksilver 06-Havana Room Social Club 07-Paciugo Gran Caffee 08-WFAA Channel 8 09-Nove 10-Stuff

Good lord, houstonfella, please take some of your own advice. While some of your fellow houstonians make at least somewhat relevant and poignant remarks, you consistently throw in ridiculous biased posts and boasts that do nothing but provoke people into making comments unrelated to the topic (like me, right here). By the way, everyone on this site knows Houston is the fourth largest US city in population. Repeating it over and over again impresses noone. Don't take this too personally, but for the good of the forum (and of the Dallas folks' impression of Houstonians on this site) just lay off the extreme bragging....thanks man

This is a stupid thread. Close it.

That Buffalo Bayou creek thing looks poopy

Where are you getting 400 from? Emporis? If you look closer at Houston's page there, you'll see that out of the 400 listed, 15 were never built, 10 were demolished, 9 are under construction, and 35 are in the design/pre-construction phase. So unless Houston just built 71 buildings overnight, you're wrong dude. Right now, it looks like Dallas has the tallest building in the works between the two cities. According to Emporis(and I know it's not totally reliable), Dallas' tallest approved tower is the 43 story Victory Tower(Mandarin Oriental), and Houston's is the 37 story One Park Place.

well since the two cities are not the same size in land area, go ahead and list the other skylines in metro houston...what else is there outside of houston anyway? Clear Lake and Galveston maybe? i don't know...

Notable DFW skylines: DTD DTFW Uptown North Dallas/Galleria area Richardson Telecom Corridor Las Colinas Addison/Tollway Northwest Highway & Tollway Stemmons Corridor Denton

The Williams Tower and BoA don't share the same footprint, but they both are tall rectangular buildings in appearance that have interesting recessed features at each corner of the building. Plus, there's only a 20 ft. height difference between the two. Like I said they're somewhat similar...somewhat being the key word Actually, I do admit that the design works a hundred times better for First City than Burnett, but I'm still not crazy about the design.

I wouldn't bet on it...Exxon Mobil's campus in Irving is impressive. It's surrounded by native Mesquite trees and it's set well back from the street on a small hill, and the building itself looks like an oriental pagoda or something. It's really pretty damn beautiful. Plus, it's ten minutes from the airport in the nice Las Colinas area.

Actually, I think Dallas has a fair amount of buildings that compare (for better or worse) to those in Houston. Here's just a few tall buildings from both cities that somewhat remind me of each other: Heritage Plaza(Houston) & JPMorganChase Tower(Dallas)...different colors, but Heritage just needs a keyhole and they'd be siblings Williams Tower(Houston) & BoA Plaza(Dallas)...same basic shape BoA Center(Houston) & Fountain Place(Dallas)...both have interesting triangular perspectives...btw, Fountain Place is my favorite skyscraper anywhere Centerpoint Energy Plaza(Houston) & Renaissance Tower(Dallas)..both were first simple rectangular buildings that got renovated with some decorations on top also... First City Tower(Houston) & Burnett Plaza(Fort Worth)...both unbelievably ugly