H-Town Man

I doubt that will happen. Houston Second Baptist is snugly located in one of the city's finer areas, and the type of connections they've built up over the decades would probably be hard to break. I'd be interested in a mini-history of churches in Houston. What were the big power-churches at different times? When did their influence rise and fall? Was South Main Baptist the big thing before Second Baptist was? Was it always the Baptists who were on top? Did they ever have revivals at Buffalo Bayou? And, if so, did children ever disappear in the water, never to be seen again?

Remember when they used to have Italian ices in the Astrodome? I used to love those things. Then one day, I searched and they were gone. I must have walked a complete lap around the building as the realization slowly sunk in. I think they left about the same time as the scoreboard.

It'll be interesting to watch it slowly get submerged the next time it floods.

Written on the back of the t-shirts from offsite Bonfire: "If it was easy, everyone would do it." Exactly.

Thanks for your reply, GovernorAggie. You were a brave, mature person to ignore stereotypes and decide to experience A&M for yourself. So many people want nothing but an excuse to hate, and when they see that A&M has low figures for minorities, they say, "Ah! Racism! A chance for me to hate!" The sad thing is, white male Aggies like myself can be the friendliest most welcoming people in the world to other races, but our word means nothing. Noone on the outside believes us. It's always the same reply: "Of course you don't think A&M's racist... you don't know what it's like... (etc.)." So I'm glad that people like yourself are having a good experience, and I hope that you continue to speak out. When the news stories broke a year ago that A&M wasn't going to use race in the admissions process, the Houston Chronicle ran a cartoon personifying A&M as an antebellum plantation owner. That hurts. The person who drew that cartoon (C.P. Houston) knew nothing about the place he was attacking - he was a liberal journalist who knew that A&M was a conservative school, and he saw a chance to attack it. I'm a grad student in the English Dept., and many of my fellow students were convinced on day one that the A&M culture is unfriendly to blacks. They'll mention places like the Dixie Chicken, and say "Oh you don't want to go there - it's all a bunch of racist rednecks!" Whereas I see black people in the Dixie Chicken, and they appear to be having a good time. The bottom line is, people will hate what they don't understand, they will hate what they're not a part of, they will hate it when a group of people are having a good time, and they will hate people who have different beliefs. They will hate for all these reasons, and they will demonize what they hate, so they can appear justified in their hatred. Right now, accusations of racism are a huge, wonderful tool for anybody attacking conservative and rural attitudes. It makes it easy to dismiss people who might be harder to dismiss on questions like small govt. or religion. All you have to do is say, "Don't listen to all those people - they're racist," and if your listener hasn't been around these people himself, there's a chance he'll believe you. I don't mean to offend you if you're liberal - not all liberals are doing this - but it is very widespread, very hurtful, and very dirty.

pathetic

Oh yeah! I'm gettin' them confused...

This was the post to which I was referring - my original response to your post. I agree with just about everything you said. I hope we can continue to understand one another. Sorry about all the strife.

A&M increased its minority enrollment by 42% last year. A racist university would not elect a black student president. Yes, people do in fact decide to hate A&M and its "racist" rural culture without checking out the facts. Texas A&M is trying to reach out to minorities, accepts minorities, and does not deserve to be called racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You owe me an apology.

dbigtex, You are wrong to read everything I said as an attack on you. I never said that friendship, community, and God don't exist outside of A&M (although I did suggest that no other college manifests it to the same extent). I did not say that everyone outside of A&M is a "styrofoam munching.." etc., and I do not have contempt for the rest of the world! You are misreading me. I have contempt for people who make fun of us for the spiritual aspect of our lives. I see THESE people as representatives of a culture where spirituality doesn't exist. Otherwise, why would they hate us for it? I wonder why you don't notice the disdain for A&M expressed by others on this forum. Scroll up, and you will see where we have been made fun of for "mystical voodoo," etc. So I defended these "spiritual" things. I did NOT however say that they cannot exist elsewhere, but simply that it is better to have spirit and community than alienation and sterility. If you think I did, I am sorry. I know that many other cases of human bonding exist; excuse me for defending this one. As for the David Koresh thing... sorry dbigtex, but I don't for a second believe that you meant to say anything positive about A&M in that remark. I posed a few questions about what you were trying to say in a response post, and you never answered them. I think someone who didn't intend to offend religious people would have immediately answered those and cleared up the confusion - but you didn't. I can't believe that the remark was as innocuous as you say. I'm sorry for all the misunderstanding and emotion, but really, when people attack an institution (and yes, they did attack it) on its day of mourning, what on earth do they expect? I'm going to defend it, and my defense is going to be emotional.

Cite your experience with A&M. How much time have you spent on campus? How much of this are you getting from other sources. First, your facts are wrong. Enrollment of minority students rose 42% last year, as A&M admissions officers actively recruit minorities, giving them phone calls and visiting their homes. We have a new Vice President for Campus Diversity, an Office of Multicultural Affairs, are planning a statue dedicated to the idea of diversity next to our main building, and just hosted a summit on the issue of diversifying campus that saw active participation. Have you ever considered that perhaps the reason there aren't many minorities at A&M is that minorities don't want to go to A&M? Over the past several years, a very low percentage of minorities accepted to A&M have chosen to attend. In other words, WE are welcoming THEM, but THEY are rejecting US. I have lived at A&M for two years, in 1998 and this year, and I have been associated with it and visited it for several years. I have had friends here who are black, asian, and Indian. My current roommate is Vietnamese. I have known professors who are black. Most of them love the place, and are happy here! I have NEVER ONCE seen or heard about a racist incident. I have been in groups of friends of mixed races, have seen people of different races joking with each other, talking to each other, singing and swaying arm and arm at football games. In 1998, when I was a student, a black student was elected Student President, in a huge campus-wide popular election. HOW DOES A RACIST SCHOOL ELECT A BLACK STUDENT PRESIDENT????!!!!! You have no leg to stand on. Your statements are wrong and hurtful. You are part of a different prejudice - prejudice of urban dwellers and liberals AGAINST rural whites. These people try to perpetuate the image of us as a racist society because they hate us, hate our beliefs, hate our politics, and are trying to smear us. A couple of months ago, somebody printed up a bunch of fliers supposedly attributed to a conservative student group that contained hateful messages against blacks and jews, and spread them all over campus. This was done by liberals trying to smear conservatives. It is very sick, and almost hard to believe, but there are people in this state who WANT A&M to be racist, WANT to believe that what was true in the past is true now, and FALSELY accuse it of racism in defiance of fact or reason. You are one of these people, and you make me sick.

Cite your experience with Bonfire and Texas A&M. How much of this have you seen yourself, and how much have you relied on other sources for? When did I say that this accident wasn't caused by people? Every accident is caused by people - and every person makes mistakes. The way bonfire was built was a mistake. I've said that already. I also said that it should be brought back if it can be done in a safe manner. I didn't say I would do it the same way next time, contrary to what you wrote. I've learned plenty from this tragedy. As for you... I'm sorry, but your posts on this topic clearly do not stem from concern for the lost. I've seen people mourning the loss who don't think Bonfire should be continued, and they do not talk like you. You are using this tragedy as an excuse to attack and make fun of A&M. Otherwise, why would you keep referring to Aggie jokes? Noone was talking about continuing bonfire when you showed up on this thread; they were talking about the memorial. You are posturing as someone who is concerned for safety and those who have died, when in fact your whole attitude is one of derisiveness and hate. Where were you during the memorial service yesterday? Talking to you gives me the creeps. Ironically, your avatar seems like the perfect image for your personality. You seem like a sick person.

Aggie spirit 'never stronger' It was a day to remember tradition and tragedy. But mostly, it was a day to remember the 12 who couldn't be there By ALLAN TURNER Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle COLLEGE STATION - After a night of heavy rain and a morning of leaden clouds, the sun came out Thursday, almost as if on cue, for the tearful dedication of Texas A&M University's memorial to students killed and injured in the 1999 collapse of the Aggie Bonfire. ADVERTISEMENT Thursday marked the fifth anniversary of the 59-foot-tall log tower's fall, in which 12 Aggies were killed and 27 injured. As students sprawled from the dedication site onto the lawn of the administration building

I appreciate your point, Pineda, but I do not think that's what dbigtex was saying. I have known the guy too long, and I don't think that that is what is in his character to say. My actual theory, if you want to know, is that he doesn't really like A&M, given its associations with conservatism, "redneck" culture, and religion, which he apparently associates with being in a cult, and so he decided to take a nice jab at us on the day that we are mourning our dead. I'll wait and see what he has to say. Does anyone else notice, by the way, that this thread simply started out as Aggies talking somberly about the memorial, and then was hijacked by people who couldn't resist taking shots at our camraderie and what we stand for? Noone was talking about why bonfire happened until these people brought it up. Why the hate?

SpaceCity, My group didn't kill people. The Aggie community did not kill those twelve kids. A freak accident did. Sure, there may have been errors of human judgment leading to that accident, as there are in any time and place, but that's not the same as accusing my "group" of killing people. I can't believe what you are saying.

What on earth are you talking about? What does any of this have to do with David Koresh? Are you calling us a cult because we pray to God when we remember our dead? Does that make us the equivalent of David Koresh? Is this how you see people who have religious faith?

People who are outside of a group always hate the ones in the group for their togetherness. This is why they make fun of the Aggie Spirit - because they have nothing similar to it in their lives. The sad thing is that A&M welcomes everyone into the family, and remembers them all when they are gone, so those who hate it are the miserable ones who exclude themselves. You saw this thing in school when you were growing up. The loner always hated the large, happy groups of friends. It's the same reason why that boy in Jonesboro, AR fired a gun at all those kids who were holding hands praying. People hate people who care for one another, and they hate it most of all when God is involved, as He was today at the ceremony, and on every plaque of the memorial.

How is building a safe bonfire disrespectful to the dead? If I don't respect the dead, why was at their memorial today? What on earth was I doing walking around, reading all of their bronze plaques and thinking about their loss? What were you doing today?

I agree that Bonfire should be designed by an engineer - and I believe that it was. But does everyone involved in building it have to be an engineer, as some people have suggested? Was everyone involved in the construction of any office building an engineer? As long as you have a good design, can't regular students do the gruntwork? Again, it is very easy to point out problems after an accident has happened. But it worked dozens of times before, and the people currently working on the 45 foot Unity Bonfire off-campus are proving that it can be done again, in a very safe fashion. The Big Dig project in Boston cost $14.6 billion, and now has 700 leaks in a single mile-long section of tunnel. It was designed by engineers, but apparently mistakes were made. With Bonfire, one stack in 90 years fell. Accidents happen.

The fact that tens of thousands of people will be travelling from all over to attend the service in College Station today, for twelve people that most of them never met, is testament that the Aggie Spirit is in fact a very real and very meaningful thing, contrary to the laughs and deprecations of envious, insecure (or why else would they waste time making fun of us?) types who are not a part of it. Most of us have attended college, but unless your college happens to be Texas A&M University, or maybe one of the military academies, it could never show such commitment as this.

Noone was drunk. Are you saying this from the experience of having been there, or are you just sitting in Houston making guesses from your own prejudices? It is very easy to beat up on and make fun of something when an accident has happened. There is always a group of scavenging cowards who never said anything about it before, but after the accident, when it is an easy target, they swoop down and take advantage of it. Accidents happen all the time, and people get killed, but when it is something that is unique, and that people do not understand, they blame the whole thing rather than just conceding that it was an accident. A few years ago in Chicago a scaffolding fell from the John Hancock Center where people were washing windows, landing on a car and killing the people in the car as well as the people on the scaffolding. Did people call for an end to window washing, or say that the people on the scaffolding were drunk and stupid? No, they called it a freak accident, which it was. Bonfire was built at least fifty times to the same height or much higher than the one that fell. Every time it was an incredible feat. Now it is being built again, off-campus, with an improved design, and it is still an incredible feat. At bottom, I think people are jealous that we are a part of this great, mystical thing that they don't have in their lives.

Anyone who presumes to attack the A&M bonfire and what it stood for needs to ask himself two questions: 1. Do I know anything about what I am talking about? Have I ever participated in the building of a bonfire? Have I ever even been to a bonfire? Do I know what student life is like at A&M, or am I just going on stereotype and ignorance? Do I know about the history and what it means? If not, then I should shut my mouth because I don't know what I'm talking about. 2. Have I ever participated in something meaningful or sacred? Are there traditions that I am a part of, that bond me to other people, living or dead? Is there anything in my life that I can point to and say, "this has a deeper meaning than it does on the surface"? Or am I just a whining postmodern brat raised on video games and MTV, who's never hiked in the woods, swung an ax, or built a fire, living in a godless, sterile, commercialized culture with no meaningful connection with those who have left or even those around me?

This one's only $30 million. That's probably out of disappearing range.

Parking Spaces! Parking Islands! I never thought about that! Houston can always replace its most defining piece of architecture. What it really needs, though, are parking spaces and parking islands. Tear 'er down!