Jeff Bagwell Retires

[77017]

[77017]

Man I got choked up during the press conference.

This man was the heart of the Astros for so many years. Sad day. It was comin though.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Bags was a solid first basemen and still is, but time has caught up with the bat, and he's pretty banged up overall. It was time, but at least he is staying on as a possible coach or something. I think he would make a great manager, Garner ought to start grooming him now.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Bags was a solid first basemen and still is, but time has caught up with the bat, and he's pretty banged up overall. It was time, but at least he is staying on as a possible coach or something. I think he would make a great manager, Garner ought to start grooming him now.

The dude's a legend, and that's gonna show when you see how it will take for his records to be broken. The thing I'll miss is the power behind every hit. If I were a baseball, the last bat I'd wanna en dup on would have been Bagwell's.

I agree with Barnes. He probably would end up a hell of a manager, ESPECIALLY with the Astros after Garner.

[lockmat]

Man I got choked up during the press conference.

This man was the heart of the Astros for so many years. Sad day. It was comin though.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I got choked up too.

It wasn't until he said those words that I realized it was truly over. I had flashbacks of what it was like when he was playing.

It's a shame he was bashed so much about his contract the past couple years.

[Mark F. Barnes]

I think what amazed me about Bags, was the odd mechanics of his swing, and how he generated all that bat speed from hip rotation. And it didn't hurt that he had forearms like Popeye. But that wide stance and the fact that he stepped back to start forward inertia was simply amazing. His swing mechanics went against all things taught at the lower level, I bet he drove hitting coaches crazy, but hey, it worked out very damn well.

[Gary]

On a more personal note... I know Bags fairly well (dated his ex-wife Shawn) and can say that he's a stand up guy, with allot of character.

Sad to see him go.

[texastrill]

I think what amazed me about Bags, was the odd mechanics of his swing, and how he generated all that bat speed from hip rotation. And it didn't hurt that he had forearms like Popeye. But that wide stance and the fact that he stepped back to start forward inertia was simply amazing. His swing mechanics went against all things taught at the lower level, I bet he drove hitting coaches crazy, but hey, it worked out very damn well.

That is what I always liked about him.His swing and mechanics were odd,but special.Hate to see him go.

[TJones]

They announced today that Bags will be in the front office and helping recruit and coaching to bring along some players. How sweet would that be, having Bagwell as your caoch.

[DJ V Lawrence]

They announced today that Bags will be in the front office and helping recruit and coaching to bring along some players. How sweet would that be, having Bagwell as your caoch.

Perhaps he should replace Purpura as GM...

[KimberlySayWhat]

I was hoping he'd say, "syyyyke! I'm all well and I'm playing!", but no.

[TJones]

I was hoping he'd say, "syyyyke! I'm all well and I'm playing!", but no.

If only ! ! ! Nah, stick a fork in poor bags, he is done. He is my second all-time favorite player behind Frank Thomas, who has also succumbed to the realization that he is just too old and too beat up to play effectively anymore.

[lockmat]

That is what I always liked about him.His swing and mechanics were odd,but special.Hate to see him go.

The only thing unorthodox about his mechanics was his pre-swing, which for the most part doesn't matter. All that matters is how you look when you get to your base and then the swing after that. Prior to getting to your base, what you do doesn't mean jack.

All that to say, his swing mechanics were perfect.

[DJ V Lawrence]

The only thing unorthodox about his mechanics was his pre-swing, which for the most part doesn't matter. All that matters is how you look when you get to your base and then the swing after that. Prior to getting to your base, what you do doesn't mean jack.

All that to say, his swing mechanics were perfect.

I disagree. His hitting stance and swing mechanics work only for Bagwell. It's not a traditional stance that you could expect to teach others learning to play the game.

[west20th]

I disagree. His hitting stance and swing mechanics work only for Bagwell. It's not a traditional stance that you could expect to teach others learning to play the game.

The best description came from, I think, Ken Camineti (sp?). I can't remember the exact quote but he pretty much said he looked like he was taking a dump with his batting stance. The best part was when he said he could get in a few practice swings while he was in the bathroom.

[lockmat]

I disagree. His hitting stance and swing mechanics work only for Bagwell. It's not a traditional stance that you could expect to teach others learning to play the game.

Well yeah, his stance too, but that really hardly matters. What matters is that you keep your hands inside the ball, swing all the way through and get extension so your bat head stays inside the strike-zone as long as possible, all of which he did. He also dropped his hands, but like I said, when he got to his base, his hands were exactly where they needed to be.

His stance was extremely wide, but if you look at most, if not all power hitters they have very wide stances. Plus, Bagwell took a step back instead of striding forward, so really, he wasn't as spread out when he hit the ball as he was pre-pitch.

It's everything that he does before getting to his base that's all whacked out. Of course you wouldn't want to teach that b/c it's wasted motion, but still, it doesn't effect his actual swing.

I've heard him say it, and Bags will tell you the most important thing is a good base and to be balanced. If that's wrong, everything else will go wrong.

The best description came from, I think, Ken Camineti (sp?). I can't remember the exact quote but he pretty much said he looked like he was taking a dump with his batting stance. The best part was when he said he could get in a few practice swings while he was in the bathroom.

that's funny stuff

[TJones]

The best description came from, I think, Ken Camineti (sp?). I can't remember the exact quote but he pretty much said he looked like he was taking a dump with his batting stance. The best part was when he said he could get in a few practice swings while he was in the bathroom.

Was that before or after Ken would Speedball ?

[DJ V Lawrence]

I've heard him say it, and Bags will tell you the most important thing is a good base and to be balanced. If that's wrong, everything else will go wrong.

I can't think of any batter I've ever seen with a wider stance than him. But it did work, and his fundamentals were all there, which is why he has 449 HRs to his name.

Yeah, I enjoyed the pre-swing, too. He'd rotate the bat around with an intimidating Chuck Norris stare directly at the pitcher's eyes that seemed to say "you don't want me to hit it. You don't...want...me...to...hit...it...." Everytime he hit the ball...EVERYTIME he hit it (home-run, hit, foul ball), you'd see the pitcher flinch as if he just heard a gunshot in the stadium >

Camineti and Bagwell: the last two Astros who were MVP. Who will be next?

[lockmat]

Camineti and Bagwell: the last two Astros who were MVP. Who will be next?

Berkman hopefully. He'd probably have one by now if others wouldn't have performed like they were inhuman.

I think he'll get in in the next couple years.

[Mark F. Barnes]

His stance was extremely wide, but if you look at most, if not all power hitters they have very wide stances. Plus, Bagwell took a step back instead of striding forward, so really, he wasn't as spread out when he hit the ball as he was pre-pitch.

Let's see:

Babe Ruth-No- extremely closed- feet 12" apart at the most

Carl Yastrzemski-No- extremely closed- feet 12" apart at the most- very little stride- held bat straight up in the air

Mickey Mantle-No close stand feet 12-18 inches apart very little leg kick and stride, fast hands and huge power from the hips and lower back

Reggie Jackson-No- narrow stance- Mays type of stride

Willie Mays-No-started from a medium stance but had an extremely long stride, almost coming to one knee.

Hank Aaron-No-medium stance and very little stride, power from hips and quick hands

Stan Musial-No- almost a cork screw type stance stepped behind himself instead of towards the pitcher

Barry Bonds-No- close stance long stride very Willie Mays like, since the say hey kids taught him to hit it makes sense

Harmon Killebrew-No- close stance nearly no stride

Ken Griffey, Jr.-No = very close stance, high front leg kick but short stride. Very quick hands and sweet follow thru

Willie McCovey-No- very strange short stance big step, huge powerful hands and arms

Ted Williams-No- close stance picture perfect swing and stride

Mel Ott-No- very weird stance also corkscrew like very little stride, just raw power

All of the Power Hitters listed used what is known as a typical closed stance with a few that are noted, none used a stance over shoulder width. So I tend to disagree with your assessment.

[Gary]

Let's see:

Babe Ruth-No- extremely closed- feet 12" apart at the most

Carl Yastrzemski-No- extremely closed- feet 12" apart at the most- very little stride- held bat straight up in the air

Mickey Mantle-No close stand feet 12-18 inches apart very little leg kick and stride, fast hands and huge power from the hips and lower back

Reggie Jackson-No- narrow stance- Mays type of stride

Willie Mays-No-started from a medium stance but had an extremely long stride, almost coming to one knee.

Hank Aaron-No-medium stance and very little stride, power from hips and quick hands

Stan Musial-No- almost a cork screw type stance stepped behind himself instead of towards the pitcher

Barry Bonds-No- close stance long stride very Willie Mays like, since the say hey kids taught him to hit it makes sense

Harmon Killebrew-No- close stance nearly no stride

Ken Griffey, Jr.-No = very close stance, high front leg kick but short stride. Very quick hands and sweet follow thru

Willie McCovey-No- very strange short stance big step, huge powerful hands and arms

Ted Williams-No- close stance picture perfect swing and stride

Mel Ott-No- very weird stance also corkscrew like very little stride, just raw power

All of the Power Hitters listed used what is known as a typical closed stance with a few that are noted, none used a stance over shoulder width. So I tend to disagree with your assessment.

Impressive stuff Mark.

[lockmat]

Let's see:

Babe Ruth-No- extremely closed- feet 12" apart at the most

Carl Yastrzemski-No- extremely closed- feet 12" apart at the most- very little stride- held bat straight up in the air

Mickey Mantle-No close stand feet 12-18 inches apart very little leg kick and stride, fast hands and huge power from the hips and lower back

Reggie Jackson-No- narrow stance- Mays type of stride

Willie Mays-No-started from a medium stance but had an extremely long stride, almost coming to one knee.

Hank Aaron-No-medium stance and very little stride, power from hips and quick hands

Stan Musial-No- almost a cork screw type stance stepped behind himself instead of towards the pitcher

Barry Bonds-No- close stance long stride very Willie Mays like, since the say hey kids taught him to hit it makes sense

Harmon Killebrew-No- close stance nearly no stride

Ken Griffey, Jr.-No = very close stance, high front leg kick but short stride. Very quick hands and sweet follow thru

Willie McCovey-No- very strange short stance big step, huge powerful hands and arms

Ted Williams-No- close stance picture perfect swing and stride

Mel Ott-No- very weird stance also corkscrew like very little stride, just raw power

All of the Power Hitters listed used what is known as a typical closed stance with a few that are noted, none used a stance over shoulder width. So I tend to disagree with your assessment.

One sided argument. Not to mention a huge majority of those were old timy players.

And I'm not saying that all of them had huge/wide stances, but for the most part, they are.

Here are my one sided examples

Albert Pujols

Jim Edmonds

Jason Giambi

Sammy Sosa

Alfonso Soriano

David Ortiz

Jim Thome

Andruw Jones

Carlos Delgado

Vladimere Guruerro

Nobody had a stance like Bags. Plus, he squated which made it look even worse.

You could make a case for either way. The most important thing is a good base after your stride (if you even have one).

Plus, if you don't have quick hands, you don't play in the majors. Every good to average hitter has good hands.

[TJones]

Baggie's squatting wasn't a fashion statement, it was to take away the strike zone. The guy is already 5'8", now he squats down to 3'10", and it is like pitching to a dwarf. Good Luck with that. Baggie's was the most unorthodox stance in baseball. I remember reading that EA had to actually bring Bags in one year to CGI his stance, because nobody at headquarters could mimick it.

Sorry, Baggie's stance to me is just an Opinion, not fact.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Nice one sided argument. Not to mention a huge majority of those were old timy players.

And I'm not saying that all of them had huge/wide stances, but for the most part, they are.

Here are my one sided examples

Albert Pujols

Jim Edmonds

Jason Giambi

Sammy Sosa

Alfonso Soriano

David Ortiz

Jim Thome

Andruw Jones

Carlos Delgado

Vladimere Guruerro

Nobody had a stance like Bags. Plus, he squated which made it look even worse.

You could make a case for either way. The most important thing is a good base after your stride (if you even have one).

Plus, if you don't have quick hands, you don't play in the majors. Every good to average hitter has good hands.

Home Runs

All Time Leaders

'Top 100'

Name Home Runs Rank

Hank Aaron 755 1

Barry Bonds 734 2

Babe Ruth 714 3

Willie Mays 660 4

Sammy Sosa 588 5

Frank Robinson 586 6

Mark McGwire 583 7

Harmon Killebrew 573 8

Rafael Palmeiro 569 9

Ken Griffey, Jr. 563 10

Reggie Jackson 563

Mike Schmidt 548 12

Mickey Mantle 536 13

Jimmie Foxx 534 14

Willie McCovey 521 15

Ted Williams 521

Ernie Banks 512 17

Eddie Mathews 512

Mel Ott 511 19

Eddie Murray 504 20

Lou Gehrig 493 21

Fred McGriff 493

Frank Thomas 487 23

Stan Musial 475 24

Willie Stargell 475

Jim Thome 472 26

Manny Ramirez 470 27

Dave Winfield 465 28

Alex Rodriguez 464 29

Jose Canseco 462 30

Gary Sheffield 455 31

Carl Yastrzemski 452 32

Jeff Bagwell 449 33

Dave Kingman 442 34

Andre Dawson 438 35

Juan Gonzalez 434 36

Cal Ripken, Jr. 431 37

Billy Williams 426 38

Mike Piazza 419 39

Darrell Evans 414 40

Carlos Delgado 407 41

Duke Snider 407

Andres Galarraga 399 43

Al Kaline 399

Dale Murphy 398 45

Joe Carter 396 46

Graig Nettles 390 47

Johnny Bench 389 48

Dwight Evans 385 49

Harold Baines 384 50

Larry Walker 383 51

Frank Howard 382 52

Jim Rice 382

Albert Belle 381 54

Orlando Cepeda 379 55

Tony Perez 379

Matt Williams 378 57

Norm Cash 377 58

Carlton Fisk 376 59

Rocky Colavito 374 60

Gil Hodges 370 61

Ralph Kiner 369 62

Joe DiMaggio 361 63

Gary Gaetti 360 64

Johnny Mize 359 65

Yogi Berra 358 66

Chipper Jones 357 67

Greg Vaughn 355 68

Lee May 354 69

Ellis Burks 352 70

Dick Allen 351 71

Chili Davis 350 72

Jim Edmonds 350

Jason Giambi 350

George Foster 348 75

Jeff Kent 345 76

Andruw Jones 342 77

Ron Santo 342

Jack Clark 340 79

Tino Martinez 339 80

Dave Parker 339

Boog Powell 339

Don Baylor 338 83

Vladimir Guerrero 338

Joe Adcock 336 85

Darryl Strawberry 335 86

Bobby Bonds 332 87

Luis Gonzalez 331 88

Hank Greenberg 331

Mo Vaughn 328 90

Willie Horton 325 91

Gary Carter 324 92

Lance Parrish 324

Ron Gant 321 94

Vinny Castilla 320 95

Moises Alou 319 96

Cecil Fielder 319

Shawn Green 318 98

Roy Sievers 318

George Brett 317 100

Before you start questioning the validity of my list, here's the top 100 HR hitters of all time. How many of your guys are in there and how many of mine are in it? I'll give you a hint....All of mine are! Just say you made a bad assessment of Bags swing and leave it at that. It was pretty well known all over the league that his mechanics were off the chart, but his numbers were good and that made it okay. I simply made a point in my original post, that that was what amazed me every time I saw him bat. And you had to come in with your two cents and gave your condescending assessment, then made the ludicrous follow up about "most if not all" power hitters have a wide stance, you have clearly been shown that that is false. If you continue to go through the top 100 HR list you will find that 80 percent of them used a closed stance, with feet no wider than shoulder width or less. Strides varied by the individual player. And if you truly knew anything about the mechanics of a swing, you'd know that the players with the longer torso and arms had to take longer stride to get their bats around in time to meet the contact zone properly. The shorter torso players with the shorter arms took shorter stride if any at all and produced their power from their hips, forearms and lower backs.

[lockmat]

Home Runs

Before you start questioning the validity of my list, here's the top 100 HR hitters of all time. How many of your guys are in there and how many of mine are in it? I'll give you a hint....All of mine are! Just say you made a bad assessment of Bags swing and leave it at that. It was pretty well known all over the league that his mechanics were off the chart, but his numbers were good and that made it okay. I simply made a point in my original post, that that was what amazed me every time I saw him bat. And you had to come in with your two cents and gave your condescending assessment, then made the ludicrous follow up about "most if not all" power hitters have a wide stance, you have clearly been shown that that is false. If you continue to go through the top 100 HR list you will find that 80 percent of them used a closed stance, with feet no wider than shoulder width or less. Strides varied by the individual player. And if you truly knew anything about the mechanics of a swing, you'd know that the players with the longer torso and arms had to take longer stride to get their bats around in time to meet the contact zone properly. The shorter torso players with the shorter arms took shorter stride if any at all and produced their power from their hips, forearms and lower backs.

All your guys are dead or about to be dead, of course they're in there. Mine are modern day.

And no, I didn't give a bad assesment of his swing at all. His swing is fine. Just because some journalist in front of a camera says something doesn't mean it's true. Look at his mechanics after his stride - everything is perfect, and that's all that matters.

I didn't even see your first post.

And I was probably wrong about the "most if not all" comment, but a good majority these days do.

I don't even know why you're arguing a closed stance. I didn't say anything about that.

And name one person in the whole world besides your little league coach who teaches the correlation of a good swing to the length of your arms and torso.

And oh, did I mention Ryan Howard, the HR champ last year?

-------

I don't want this to get any uglier. I made my point.

[TJones]

WOW! Mike Schmidt ! Talk about an underrated All-Star 3rd baseman, I remember watching him play alot back in the 70's and 80's. I got his autograph like 3 times.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Wrong not a wide stance

David Ortiz places his left foot near the back line of the batters box, leans in and positions his right foot so that his stance is slightly open and he has a clear view. Clearly not a wide stance

Jim Thome Very closed stance, long stride

Andruw Jones has an awkward stance, it looks wider than it is because he starts with his lead foot back behind him, definitely an open stance.

Carlos Delgado slightly open at best

Vladimir Guerrero slightly open, long stride

enough yet?

[lockmat]

enough yet?

Obviously our defenitions of a wide stance are different. And I still can't figure out why you're arguing opened and closed stances when I said nothing about it.

If you don't think Jim Edmonds and Albert Pujols have wide stances, I don't know what to say.

Look forward to more civilized conversations in other threads in the future. Later man

[Mark F. Barnes]

Ryan Howard has a full open stance, would not call it overly wide, slightly yes, no where near Bagwell.

[lockmat]

Never once did I compare anyones stance to Bagwells. I just said wide. Bagwell is in a league of his own.