San Antonio Saints Or Marlins?

[DJ V Lawrence]

actually, no. San Antonio actually has two and a half championships.

And they are World Championships, not National Championships. Pro sports are considered "world."

Don't know why, it's just the way it is.

and when i mean two and a half, they won a championship in 1999 during a lockout, shortened season.

k, thx. :closedeyes:

Spurs Suck.

It would be better if MLB would just contract two teams.

That's kinda trippy. They're only called "World Champions", because the NBA calls them that. There's only two countries that have a chance at being a world champion in the NBA, NHL, and MLB. The NFL has only one country. AND there are MANY other professional sports leagues for basketball, baseball (which you'll see in the World Baseball Classic), ice hockey, and different styles of "football" (check out the Australian league).

You don't see those leagues on tv because the only one that matters to America are the American-based leagues, just as the professional leagues in other countries only focus on theirs. Only thing our leagues have more than others is money made and money offered.

There actually is a world championship tournament for basketball, and now one for baseball. It will be intresting if the winning country in the WBC will be named World Champion and get more recognition than the "World" Series champions.

Lastly, MLS is the biggest sports league in America that doesn't call their champion "World" champion, because they recognize all the other professional soccer/futbol leagues out there, plus the World Cup is the biggest tournament in all sports, and EVERY country has a chance to win the title.

I wonder why NCAA recognizes their teams as National Champions correctly, and American professional sports doesn't. It's almost like being an American or National champion to these leagues is degrading. It's sad, really.

[Subdude]

I still don't think SA could withstand an MLB team and 81 dates a year.

How so?

It would be better if MLB would just contract two teams.

You're probably right, but when they tried it before, MLB couldn't pull it off because the cities screamed bloody murder. I think they might try to float the idea again after the 2006 season.

[ProHouston]

How so?

Market size (too small) and disposable income (lower per capita income than most other MLB cities).

Spurs - 738,000 tickets/year (18,000 attendence*41 games) vs. MLB - 2,835,000 tickets/year (35,000 attendence*81 games)

The SA market is just not big enough to absorb that many games.

[RedScare]

Market size (too small) and disposable income (lower per capita income than most other MLB cities).

Spurs - 738,000 tickets/year (18,000 attendence*41 games) vs. MLB - 2,835,000 tickets/year (35,000 attendence*81 games)

The SA market is just not big enough to absorb that many games.

According to ESPN.com, only 6 of the 30 MLB teams exceeded 2,835,000 in attendance in 2005.

According to the US Census, 15 of the 30 MLB markets are smaller than the combined San Antonio/Austin MSA of 3.3 million.

Median Household Income of US cities:

Rank Place Median Lower Bound Upper Bound

1 San Jose city, CA 76,181 70,724 81,638

2 Anchorage municipality, AK 60,728 58,593 62,863

3 San Francisco city, CA 58,621 56,455 60,787

4 Virginia Beach city, VA 53,540 49,867 57,213

5 Arlington city, TX 52,634 49,857 55,411

6 San Diego city, CA 50,538 48,410 52,667

7 Aurora city, CO 49,394 46,995 51,793

8 Charlotte city, NC 48,975 46,599 51,351

9 Raleigh city, NC 48,553 45,266 51,840

10 Bakersfield city, CA 47,272 42,909 51,635

11 Riverside city, CA 47,152 40,580 53,724

12 Colorado Springs city, CO 46,693 43,287 50,099

13 Seattle city, WA 46,541 43,601 49,481

14 Austin city, TX 45,785 42,602 48,968

15 Anaheim city, CA 45,184 41,455 48,913

16 Las Vegas city, NV 44,593 41,087 48,099

17 Sacramento city, CA 44,446 41,276 47,616

18 Washington city, DC 43,681 41,158 46,204

19 Honolulu CDP, HI 43,284 41,042 45,526

20 Phoenix city, AZ 42,721 40,596 44,846

21 St. Paul city, MN 42,484 39,471 45,497

22 Mesa city, AZ 42,145 37,908 46,382

23 Indianapolis city (balance), IN 41,278 39,409 43,147

24 Omaha city, NE 40,892 39,785 41,999

25 Albuquerque city, NM 40,852 38,229 43,476

26 Oakland city, CA 40,703 37,929 43,477

27 Jacksonville city, FL 40,366 38,302 42,430

28 Stockton city, CA 40,295 36,612 43,978

29 Boston city, MA 39,819 34,699 44,939

30 New York city, NY 39,285 37,902 40,668

31 Kansas City city, MO 39,230 36,113 42,347

32 Los Angeles city, CA 39,139 37,806 40,472

33 Portland city, OR 39,016 37,599 40,433

34 Nashville-Davidson (balance), TN 38,978 36,708 41,248

35 Long Beach city, CA 38,975 33,799 44,151

36 Lexington-Fayette, KY 38,970 34,726 43,214

37 Chicago city, IL 38,803 36,699 40,907

38 Fort Worth city, TX 38,268 35,752 40,784

39 Wichita city, KS 37,845 33,316 42,374

40 Columbus city, OH 37,540 36,347 38,733

41 Santa Ana city, CA 37,504 31,015 43,993

42 Houston city, TX 37,355 36,060 38,650

43 Tulsa city, OK 37,229 33,937 40,521

44 Fresno city, CA 37,131 32,580 41,682

45 Denver city, CO 37,010 34,192 39,828

46 San Antonio city, TX 36,706 34,850 38,562

47 Corpus Christi city, TX 36,580 30,757 42,403

48 Minneapolis city, MN 35,708 31,288 40,128

49 Oklahoma City city, OK 35,504 33,273 37,735

50 Atlanta city, GA 35,280 29,805 40,755

51 Dallas city, TX 35,028 32,822 37,234

52 Tampa city, FL 32,937 29,944 35,930

53 Milwaukee city, WI 32,447 30,056 34,838

54 Baltimore city, MD 32,337 30,327 34,347

55 Tucson city, AZ 31,686 30,741 32,631

56 Cincinnati city, OH 31,656 29,854 33,458

57 Philadelphia city, PA 31,340 30,206 32,474

58 Toledo city, OH 31,285 29,812 32,758

59 El Paso city, TX 30,946 28,836 33,056

60 Memphis city, TN 30,729 29,341 32,117

61 Detroit city, MI 30,461 28,303 32,619

62 Louisville city, KY 30,327 25,481 35,173

63 New Orleans city, LA 29,097 26,175 32,019

64 Pittsburgh city, PA 28,513 25,076 31,950

65 Newark city, NJ 27,539 21,685 33,393

66 Cleveland city, OH 26,529 23,871 29,187

67 St. Louis city, MO 26,324 24,130 28,519

68 Buffalo city, NY 25,886 20,179 31,593

69 Miami city, FL 20,883 18,573 23,193

Combined median income of SA/Austin is over $41,000. Only 6 MLB cities rank higher.

Additionally, SA/Austin's only competition for sports entertainment dollars are the Spurs and UT.

Next argument.

[DJ V Lawrence]

According to ESPN.com, only 6 of the 30 MLB teams exceeded 2,835,000 in attendance in 2005.

According to the US Census, 15 of the 30 MLB markets are smaller than the combined San Antonio/Austin MSA of 3.3 million.

Combined median income of SA/Austin is over $41,000. Only 6 MLB cities rank higher.

Additionally, SA/Austin's only competition for sports entertainment dollars are the Spurs and UT.

Next argument.

Only question now would be if San Antonio's willing to put up the public money for a new stadium. If so, there'd be no reason whatsoever why San Antonio couldn't have a team...

[ProHouston]

According to ESPN.com, only 6 of the 30 MLB teams exceeded 2,835,000 in attendance in 2005.

According to the US Census, 15 of the 30 MLB markets are smaller than the combined San Antonio/Austin MSA of 3.3 million.

Median Household Income of US cities:

Rank Place Median Lower Bound Upper Bound

1 San Jose city, CA 76,181 70,724 81,638

2 Anchorage municipality, AK 60,728 58,593 62,863

3 San Francisco city, CA 58,621 56,455 60,787

4 Virginia Beach city, VA 53,540 49,867 57,213

5 Arlington city, TX 52,634 49,857 55,411

6 San Diego city, CA 50,538 48,410 52,667

7 Aurora city, CO 49,394 46,995 51,793

8 Charlotte city, NC 48,975 46,599 51,351

9 Raleigh city, NC 48,553 45,266 51,840

10 Bakersfield city, CA 47,272 42,909 51,635

11 Riverside city, CA 47,152 40,580 53,724

12 Colorado Springs city, CO 46,693 43,287 50,099

13 Seattle city, WA 46,541 43,601 49,481

14 Austin city, TX 45,785 42,602 48,968

15 Anaheim city, CA 45,184 41,455 48,913

16 Las Vegas city, NV 44,593 41,087 48,099

17 Sacramento city, CA 44,446 41,276 47,616

18 Washington city, DC 43,681 41,158 46,204

19 Honolulu CDP, HI 43,284 41,042 45,526

20 Phoenix city, AZ 42,721 40,596 44,846

21 St. Paul city, MN 42,484 39,471 45,497

22 Mesa city, AZ 42,145 37,908 46,382

23 Indianapolis city (balance), IN 41,278 39,409 43,147

24 Omaha city, NE 40,892 39,785 41,999

25 Albuquerque city, NM 40,852 38,229 43,476

26 Oakland city, CA 40,703 37,929 43,477

27 Jacksonville city, FL 40,366 38,302 42,430

28 Stockton city, CA 40,295 36,612 43,978

29 Boston city, MA 39,819 34,699 44,939

30 New York city, NY 39,285 37,902 40,668

31 Kansas City city, MO 39,230 36,113 42,347

32 Los Angeles city, CA 39,139 37,806 40,472

33 Portland city, OR 39,016 37,599 40,433

34 Nashville-Davidson (balance), TN 38,978 36,708 41,248

35 Long Beach city, CA 38,975 33,799 44,151

36 Lexington-Fayette, KY 38,970 34,726 43,214

37 Chicago city, IL 38,803 36,699 40,907

38 Fort Worth city, TX 38,268 35,752 40,784

39 Wichita city, KS 37,845 33,316 42,374

40 Columbus city, OH 37,540 36,347 38,733

41 Santa Ana city, CA 37,504 31,015 43,993

42 Houston city, TX 37,355 36,060 38,650

43 Tulsa city, OK 37,229 33,937 40,521

44 Fresno city, CA 37,131 32,580 41,682

45 Denver city, CO 37,010 34,192 39,828

46 San Antonio city, TX 36,706 34,850 38,562

47 Corpus Christi city, TX 36,580 30,757 42,403

48 Minneapolis city, MN 35,708 31,288 40,128

49 Oklahoma City city, OK 35,504 33,273 37,735

50 Atlanta city, GA 35,280 29,805 40,755

51 Dallas city, TX 35,028 32,822 37,234

52 Tampa city, FL 32,937 29,944 35,930

53 Milwaukee city, WI 32,447 30,056 34,838

54 Baltimore city, MD 32,337 30,327 34,347

55 Tucson city, AZ 31,686 30,741 32,631

56 Cincinnati city, OH 31,656 29,854 33,458

57 Philadelphia city, PA 31,340 30,206 32,474

58 Toledo city, OH 31,285 29,812 32,758

59 El Paso city, TX 30,946 28,836 33,056

60 Memphis city, TN 30,729 29,341 32,117

61 Detroit city, MI 30,461 28,303 32,619

62 Louisville city, KY 30,327 25,481 35,173

63 New Orleans city, LA 29,097 26,175 32,019

64 Pittsburgh city, PA 28,513 25,076 31,950

65 Newark city, NJ 27,539 21,685 33,393

66 Cleveland city, OH 26,529 23,871 29,187

67 St. Louis city, MO 26,324 24,130 28,519

68 Buffalo city, NY 25,886 20,179 31,593

69 Miami city, FL 20,883 18,573 23,193

Combined median income of SA/Austin is over $41,000. Only 6 MLB cities rank higher.

Additionally, SA/Austin's only competition for sports entertainment dollars are the Spurs and UT.

Next argument.

Easy, I wouldn't include Austin in the demo. I don't think Austinites would travel that far 81 times a year.

Here's some sports specific market information showing San Antonio's ability to support a team in each of the major leagues.

Source: bizjournals.com

San Antonio's capacity as a % to support a team in the league (100 = fully capable)

NFL 51%

MLB 19%

NBA n/a

NHL 48%

MLS 100%

Additionally, San Antonio Area's total personal income: $55.4 billion Surplus for new team: $17.0 billion

This report shows the best city for an MLB team right is northern New Jersey (Area's total personal income: $282.9 billion Surplus for new team: $126.7 billion).

Some cities ranked higher than SA for ability to support an MLB team...

Albany, NY

Albuquerque, NM

Anchorage, AK

Austin, TX

Baton Rouge, LA

Birmingham, AL

...

I think this shows SA isn't ready for the MLB and is a much better fit for the NFL right now. The Saints will be back.

Only question now would be if San Antonio's willing to put up the public money for a new stadium. If so, there'd be no reason whatsoever why San Antonio couldn't have a team...

If this were the case the AT&T Center would be sitting next to the Alamodome right now. Where it was proposed before city leaders decided it would cost too much.

[KinkaidAlum]

If they land the Marlins, they should keep the fish theme going...

San Antonio River Perch

[Subdude]

Only question now would be if San Antonio's willing to put up the public money for a new stadium. If so, there'd be no reason whatsoever why San Antonio couldn't have a team...

Well, there's already a preliminary finance plan. I would be shocked if, given the opportunity for an MLB team, San Antonio didn't cough it up for a stadium. It's a rare city that can say no.

[Kam]

That's kinda trippy. They're only called "World Champions", because the NBA calls them that. There's only two countries that have a chance at being a world champion in the NBA, NHL, and MLB. The NFL has only one country. AND there are MANY other professional sports leagues for basketball, baseball (which you'll see in the World Baseball Classic), ice hockey, and different styles of "football" (check out the Australian league).

You don't see those leagues on tv because the only one that matters to America are the American-based leagues, just as the professional leagues in other countries only focus on theirs. Only thing our leagues have more than others is money made and money offered.

There actually is a world championship tournament for basketball, and now one for baseball. It will be intresting if the winning country in the WBC will be named World Champion and get more recognition than the "World" Series champions.

Lastly, MLS is the biggest sports league in America that doesn't call their champion "World" champion, because they recognize all the other professional soccer/futbol leagues out there, plus the World Cup is the biggest tournament in all sports, and EVERY country has a chance to win the title.

I wonder why NCAA recognizes their teams as National Champions correctly, and American professional sports doesn't. It's almost like being an American or National champion to these leagues is degrading. It's sad, really.

I don't know why they call themselves "World" Champions myself, but you have to realize that America is the World.

The NHL calls their champions, the Stanley Cup Champions and not NHL World Champions. But everybody knows the best hockey league in the World is in the NHL.

The NFL calls their champions the Super Bowl Champions, however, I've seen shirts that said World Champions and crap like that. It may have been unlicensed shirts or something, but I've heard it been refered to as that.

MLB calls their champions World Series. There was folklore that said the term World Series was sponsored by a newspaper called the New York World or something like that. Google it.

I have no clue why the NBA calls themselves World Champions. The NBA is the best basketball league in the World.

These are club teams. Not country teams.

Country teams play in their governing bodies sanctioned tournment. For example, in soccer, they play in the FIFA World Cup. In basketball, they play in the FIBA World Championship. In a couple of days, the sport of baseball will have theirs called the World Baseball Classic.

MLS calls their champions the MLS Champions. MLS is an inferiour league compared to say the English Premiere League or the Bundisliga or the Italian leagues.

In Europe, they also have something Champions League, when a few teams from other european soccer leagues play each other.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I have no clue why the NBA calls themselves World Champions. The NBA is the best basketball league in the World.

How U figure? Argentina currently has the best basketball in the world. They won the gold medal. It's the most sought after title in World basketball.

Can't assume we're the best just because of our money and talent. We have to win first...

[Kam]

How U figure? Argentina currently has the best basketball in the world. They won the gold medal. It's the most sought after title in World basketball.

Can't assume we're the best just because of our money and talent. We have to win first...

The NBA is a professional sports league. That's different from countries playing other countries.

The NBA is the best basketball league in the World. That's why all the top talent from the world comes to the NBA. That is why they get paid the money.

If that was the case, why don't people go play ball in the Argentine leagues?

Why do the good Argentines like Manu Ginobili, and Andres Nicionni play in the NBA instead of staying at home and playing in their country's leagues? If that's the case, why does Yao leave China to play in the NBA instead of in Argentina. Why does Andrei Kirilino leave Russia to play in the NBA instead of whatever league is in Argentina? Why does Pau Gasol leave his Spanish league team to play in the NBA instead of staying in Spain or playing in Argentina?

Playing for your country is different from playing for your professional club.

Argentina winning the gold is a separate issue from the NBA. The Houston Rockets will not play for a Gold Medal. The Miami Heat, the New York Knicks, the Atlanta Hawks, the Seattle Sonics, The Toronto Raptors, the Phoenix Suns, the Chicago Bulls, the Los Angeles Lakers, the Washington Wizards will not be playing for the Gold medal. These teams will be playing for the Larry O'Brien Trophy.

How U figure? Argentina currently has the best basketball in the world. They won the gold medal. It's the most sought after title in World basketball.

Can't assume we're the best just because of our money and talent. We have to win first...

So you're telling me, you can take an Argentine based professional sports team, who might be comprised of people from Brazil, Columbia, Ecuador, and beat an NBA team consisting of guys from The Virgin Islands, Argentina, France and the USA?

Or a team with a guy from China, and Congo, and the USA?

I doubt a professional team from another league could beat an NBA team. Except for a few teams like I don't know, Toronto?

Toronto lost in a pre-season game to Maccabi Tel-Aviv of the Israeli leagues.

How U figure? Argentina currently has the best basketball in the world. They won the gold medal. It's the most sought after title in World basketball.

Can't assume we're the best just because of our money and talent. We have to win first...

USA sucked it up at the Olympics. They sent the wrong players and the wrong coach. I didn't see Kobe there. (he was at court.) I didn't see Shaq, I didn't see Kevin Garnett, I didn't see Tracy McGrady, I didn't see Paul Pierce, I didn't see Ray Allen.

Argentina has the scoreboard.

USA better fix it at the World Champions this summer, and The Olympics in 08.

[tamtagon]

Argentina winning the gold is a separate issue from the NBA. The Houston Rockets will not play for a Gold Medal. The Miami Heat, the New York Knicks, the Atlanta Hawks, the Seattle Sonics, The Toronto Raptors, the Phoenix Suns, the Chicago Bulls, the Los Angeles Lakers, the Washington Wizards will not be playing for the Gold medal. These teams will be playing for the Larry O'Brien Trophy.

Go Spurs!

[DJ V Lawrence]

The NBA is the best basketball league in the World. That's why all the top talent from the world comes to the NBA. That is why they get paid the money.

The NBA's the best league in the world BECAUSE they have the top talent, and they have the top talent BECAUSE they get offered the most money.

If that was the case, why don't people go play ball in the Argentine leagues?

NBA offers more money and international fame.

Why do the good Argentines like Manu Ginobili, and Andres Nicionni play in the NBA instead of staying at home and playing in their country's leagues? If that's the case, why does Yao leave China to play in the NBA instead of in Argentina. Why does Andrei Kirilino leave Russia to play in the NBA instead of whatever league is in Argentina? Why does Pau Gasol leave his Spanish league team to play in the NBA instead of staying in Spain or playing in Argentina?

Money again...

Playing for your country is different from playing for your professional club.

Argentina winning the gold is a separate issue from the NBA. The Houston Rockets will not play for a Gold Medal. The Miami Heat, the New York Knicks, the Atlanta Hawks, the Seattle Sonics, The Toronto Raptors, the Phoenix Suns, the Chicago Bulls, the Los Angeles Lakers, the Washington Wizards will not be playing for the Gold medal. These teams will be playing for the Larry O'Brien Trophy.

So you're telling me, you can take an Argentine based professional sports team, who might be comprised of people from Brazil, Columbia, Ecuador, and beat an NBA team consisting of guys from The Virgin Islands, Argentina, France and the USA?

Or a team with a guy from China, and Congo, and the USA?

I doubt a professional team from another league could beat an NBA team. Except for a few teams like I don't know, Toronto?

Toronto lost in a pre-season game to Maccabi Tel-Aviv of the Israeli leagues.

USA sucked it up at the Olympics. They sent the wrong players and the wrong coach. I didn't see Kobe there. (he was at court.) I didn't see Shaq, I didn't see Kevin Garnett, I didn't see Tracy McGrady, I didn't see Paul Pierce, I didn't see Ray Allen.

Argentina has the scoreboard.

You're right, but who DID you see? You didn't see the Caveliers, Nuggets, Pistons,or Knicks playing against Argentina. You saw the BEST players from the Caveliers, Nuggets, Pistons, and Knicks playing against Argentina. The fact that McGrady, Bryant, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, and Shaq didn't participate doesn't take away from the fact that we still had the talent and coaching staff to win, and Argentina, and 2 other countries beat us fair and square. The World Championships and the Olympics are the best way to decide who's best because money and endorsements are not involved, and the deciding factor to winning is who wants it the most for their country.

Remember this as well...every player on the USA squad was an NBA All-Star at one point, and the head coach won the NBA championship that same year.

And regarding the Raptors, ANYBODY can lose if they let their guard down.

USA better fix it at the World Champions this summer, and The Olympics in 08.

TOTALLY agree. Those tournaments are no longer a USA exibition like they used to be (the Dream Team days), and our talents need to step it up. We can't hold another country accountable because Bryant wasn't playing for us or because an American player's scared of a terror threat when the other team isn't.

(Back on subject, I would like to see San Antonio with a baseball AND NFL team. They deserve it )

[RedScare]

(Back on subject, I would like to see San Antonio with a baseball AND NFL team. They deserve it )

Calling the NBA champions 'World Champions' is marketing hype...nothing more.

Back on topic, San Antonio doesn't have the population base to support both leagues. There are numerous examples of this in the form of Pittsburgh, Cincinatti, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, etc. The cost of running a team has gone up so much that the number of cities that can support all of the sports is shrinking.

Some do not think SA can support baseball, but positioned correctly, I think it can. NFL, yes. Both, no way.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Calling the NBA champions 'World Champions' is marketing hype...nothing more.

Absolutely.

Back on topic, San Antonio doesn't have the population base to support both leagues. There are numerous examples of this in the form of Pittsburgh, Cincinatti, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, etc. The cost of running a team has gone up so much that the number of cities that can support all of the sports is shrinking.

Some do not think SA can support baseball, but positioned correctly, I think it can. NFL, yes. Both, no way.

I think they can easily support the NFL because they already have the facilities for it, and don't have to spend more cash for it. That's why I'm surprised that they don't have a professional team in the Alamodome for ANY sport. I would have thought the NFL would have recognized that by now. The Dome can also be used for MLS.

It seems like the chances of an MLB franchise moving are greater than an NFL. Is that accurate?

[DJ V Lawrence]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3768934.html

So do you think San Antonio would retain the name "Marlins"? According to this, San Antonio has the best chance of landing the Marlins than any other city, maybe even including Miami if they don't work out a deal. S.A.'s willing to put up $200 million in tax revenue for a $310 million dollar open-air stadium, and it looks like 2011 would be the year of the move if S.A. won the bid.

[Subdude]

I doubt that they would keep "Marlins", since actual marlins are few and far between around SA. My guess is that Miami will grudingly come up with a new ballpark for the team. Right now it's just in the "threatening to move" stage.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I doubt that they would keep "Marlins", since actual marlins are few and far between around SA. My guess is that Miami will grudingly come up with a new ballpark for the team. Right now it's just in the "threatening to move" stage.

Has South Florida actually turned down a stadium deal in the past, or has a financial plan not even been proposed yet?

[Subdude]

I don't belive they've proposed anything to the Marlins liking. Updates from fieldofschemes.com

Charlotte mayor: No Fish for us

So much for Charlotte as a potential Florida Marlins relocation site: "We're not ready" for a third major-league sport, Charlotte Mayor Pat McCrory told the Charlotte Observer yesterday. "If [the Marlins]see the same numbers we have, you question why they're interested. I want to make sure we're not being played." Gosh, who would do a thing like that?

April 03, 2006

Play (hard)ball!

It's a baseball Opening Day tradition: the throwing out of the first franchise relocation threat of the season. This year's entry, it will come as no surprise, came from the Florida Marlins, whose owner Jeffrey Loria declared yesterday that while the team is "still looking at all our options ... our talks with San Antonio are serious." How serious? Loria has invited San Antonio officials to join him today at the Marlins' season opener "to learn more about San Antonio." You think Jerry Reinsdorf gets royalties for this?

With Loria handling the saber-rattling for once, it was left to Marlins president David Samson to talk about what the Fish would actually need in order to relocate. And the bottom line, he told the San Antonio Express-News, isn't the luxuriousness of their corporate suites, but the size of their cable contract. "Naming rights, suite deals, season-ticket sales, corporate support - without all of that there is no franchise," said Samson. "But TV revenue is the engine that keeps the train rolling. ... The biggest issue we are having right now as we go through the numbers in San Antonio is trying to figure out where we fit in the broadcast market."

That'd be #37 in the U.S., according to the Nielsen figures. But the bigger problem is that the Houston Astros currently view San Antonio, even though it's not technically their MLB-designated "territory," as part of their media market, with Astros games being broadcast there on Fox Sports Southwest. Admitted Samson: "A TV territory would have to be carved out and then monetized." In other words, last year's Baltimore Orioles-Washington Nationals deal has set the precedent: Either the Marlins or MLB would have to indemnify the Astros for encroaching on their media domain, adding tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to their relocation costs. Add in that San Antonio officials aren't offering any more public money than Florida has (the Marlins' share would go down, but only because of a crazy-low $300 million stadium price tag - sound familiar?) and that the whole deal would be contingent on a November referendum of San Antonio voters, and this move still sounds like a longshot - sorry, make that a "serious" longshot.

[Subdude]

Sounds like San Antonio is getting serious.

San Antonio to Marlins: Put up or shut up

Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff has turned the tables on the Florida Marlins' compulsive deadline-setter David Samson, issuing an open letter that the Fish need to "fish or cut bait by May 15" if they want a stadium built in San Antonio. Wolff further told the San Antonio Express-News:

"We need to organize a campaign, select [a stadium]site and reach an MOU. You need time to do that right. ... I've been in business for a long time and have sold two companies. I know this game a little. You need to get off the ship or stay on. They need to see if they can get [a stadium deal] in Miami and this sets a time frame for them to do that."

County Commissioner Lyle Larson then let loose with the other barrel, telling the Express-News that "all of this groveling cheapens our stature as a community. We need to show more pride." At which point Wolff went all Dick Cheney on his fellow Texan, saying: "Nobody's groveling. Where did he get that [expletive, but you can guess which one]? What have we groveled about? The Marlins approached us about moving."

Wolff added that the May 15 deadline was necessary to get a stadium-funding referendum on the November 15 ballot, and that if the Marlins don't commit to move by then, "as far as I'm concerned, it's over." Your move, David.

Link

[west20th]

That's why I'm surprised that they don't have a professional team in the Alamodome for ANY sport. I would have thought the NFL would have recognized that by now. The Dome can also be used for MLS.

It seems like the chances of an MLB franchise moving are greater than an NFL. Is that accurate?

I'm sure the NFL turns it's nose up at the Alamodome because it's not new enough, wouldn't generate enough revenue, and is not as nice as Reliant, for example. Don't underestimate the greed of the NFL. They will squeeze every last nickel out of a city that they can. The only reason they haven't yanked the Saints out of NOLA is the public relations nightmare wouldn't be worth the money they could shake down another city for.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I'm sure the NFL turns it's nose up at the Alamodome because it's not new enough, wouldn't generate enough revenue, and is not as nice as Reliant, for example. Don't underestimate the greed of the NFL. They will squeeze every last nickel out of a city that they can. The only reason they haven't yanked the Saints out of NOLA is the public relations nightmare wouldn't be worth the money they could shake down another city for.

That NO Saints situation's interesting. The team was pushing for a new stadium or relocation prior to Katrina, and now they seem to be backing off. For all we know, Katrina may have saved football for NO. Odd.

Was the primary purpose of AlamoDome to lure an NFL team, or is the building actually raking in revenue for S.A.? And why would S.A.'s current mayor be so stupid to not pursue an MLS franchise for AlamoDome, yet even talk to an MLB team about using taxpayer dollars on a new stadium? I mean c'mon, the stadium's already there, and would be one of the best in the league. If they don't pursue an MLS expansion team within the next 5 years, he'd be foolish.

[Subdude]

I thought the original idea behind the Alamodome was to lure an NFL team back when so many franchises were moving. At this point it has to be a white elephant, since the NFL has made it clear the next team(s) will be in LA.

I don't know why the city isn't interested in an MLS franchise, but even if they got one it seems unlikely that it would play in the Alamodome, just like the Houston MLS team doesn't play in the Astrodome.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I thought the original idea behind the Alamodome was to lure an NFL team back when so many franchises were moving. At this point it has to be a white elephant, since the NFL has made it clear the next team(s) will be in LA.

I don't know why the city isn't interested in an MLS franchise, but even if they got one it seems unlikely that it would play in the Alamodome, just like the Houston MLS team doesn't play in the Astrodome.

When the previous S.A. mayor was in office, they made public that the MLS would call Alamodome permanently home. Would have been a smart move. They have basketball, but there are lots of soccer fans there. Dunno if they could have sold it out, but at least the stadium would be used at least 16 more days a year.

[ProHouston]

SA tried hard for an MLS team just last year. They would've had one before Houston. However, when the new mayor came on board he thought it was a bad idea and squashed it. He royally ticked off the MLS when he did it too. They were almost ready to sign on the dotted line. So don't look for an MLS team to come to SA until there is a new mayor.

Also, the Alamodome was built for the NFL. Henry Cisneros got the stadium referendum passed when he was still mayor. It is currently hurting for a tenant. I don't think it's losing money, but it's not making a lot either.

I think SA could guarantee NFL success way before MLB success. They're crazy about Cowboy football over there, it's really kinda nauseating.

[DJ V Lawrence]

SA tried hard for an MLS team just last year. They would've had one before Houston. However, when the new mayor came on board he thought it was a bad idea and squashed it. He royally ticked off the MLS when he did it too. They were almost ready to sign on the dotted line. So don't look for an MLS team to come to SA until there is a new mayor.

Also, the Alamodome was built for the NFL. Henry Cisneros got the stadium referendum passed when he was still mayor. It is currently hurting for a tenant. I don't think it's losing money, but it's not making a lot either.

I think SA could guarantee NFL success way before MLB success. They're crazy about Cowboy football over there, it's really kinda nauseating.

What really sickens me is that the Vikings couldn't move there because the NFL went out of it's way to save football in Minnesota.

Why didn't S.A. try to get a team guaranteed BEFORE the referendum to use taxpayer money to build it? That just doesn't make sense. Sounds like stupid business. Even when McNair got the Texans, he asked for the Super Bowl within the deal.

SA's current mayor is not very bright if he doesn't try to bring MLS into the AlamoDome. He's probably still wishing for an NFL franchise to move there. That probably won't happen until L.A. gets theirs first, which by that time he would no longer be in office, and the Alamodome at that time would probably look outdated compared to other NFL stadiums.

[DJ V Lawrence]

The San Antonio Chargers?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5526234

[ProHouston]

The San Antonio Chargers?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5526234

I think this would be a great move. If SA could get the Chargers then it wouldn't have to wait until 2010 when the Saints lease is up, plus they get a better owner. Ok, not the best owner but still better than Tom Benson.

[tamtagon]

The eagerness (and stadium availability) in San Antonio to be a host city to another pro sport team is, like, a major bargaining tool for teams to get a better deal out of their current hosts. I think MLS at the AlamoDome would be great, and very successful. San Antonio seems to have a demographic which could actually use as many seats as the Alamodome could offer. I love the idea that San Antonio could become a futbol-centric American city. Having a really successful and popular Pro Soccer team in SA would bouy the teams in Dallas and Houston.

[DJ V Lawrence]

The eagerness (and stadium availability) in San Antonio to be a host city to another pro sport team is, like, a major bargaining tool for teams to get a better deal out of their current hosts. I think MLS at the AlamoDome would be great, and very successful. San Antonio seems to have a demographic which could actually use as many seats as the Alamodome could offer. I love the idea that San Antonio could become a futbol-centric American city. Having a really successful and popular Pro Soccer team in SA would bouy the teams in Dallas and Houston.

I agree 100%

One question, though. Say both the Chargers AND Marlins moved to S.A.. Could that region support both teams as well as the Spurs? And wouldn't that hurt the chances of S.A. becoming home to an MLS team?