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Would you have it any other way?

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Now that the verdict is in, what are your thoughts? Is it what you expected? Or would you rather have Hillary in office? Personally I think that Trump is the better choice between the two (although not the best we could have come up with) and I did expect him to win. 

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I personally don't think that Trump is the best man for the job, but seeing as Hillary belongs more in a jail cell than she does in the White House, I guess I'd prefer to have Trump in the seat. 

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On 11/10/2016 at 2:40 PM, Kay2 said:

I personally don't think that Trump is the best man for the job, but seeing as Hillary belongs more in a jail cell than she does in the White House, I guess I'd prefer to have Trump in the seat. 

Can you tell me what crime she has committed, or are you just repeating what you've heard from Republican supporters. I'd be all for someone going to jail (especially a politician) if they actually committed a crime.  Receiving a unsolicited email, or leaving something out on a coffee table for someone to see may be careless, but committing a crime it is not.

I've walked up to the copy machine at work, and seen stuff that belongs to the CEO in the print tray. I thumb through the stuff to get to my document, but do I think he needs to by fired for leaving it in the tray? No of course not. Careless? Yes.

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28 minutes ago, plumber2 said:

Can you tell me what crime she has committed, or are you just repeating what you've heard from Republican supporters. I'd be all for someone going to jail (especially a politician) if they actually committed a crime.  Receiving a unsolicited email, or leaving something out on a coffee table for someone to see may be careless, but committing a crime it is not.

I've walked up to the copy machine at work, and seen stuff that belongs to the CEO in the print tray. I thumb through the stuff to get to my document, but do I think he needs to by fired for leaving it in the tray? No of course not. Careless? Yes.

 

That's not at all what the allegations are. A better analogy would be if I as a high-level employee of a company took home some company information home with me on a flash drive to my personal computer, lying that I did it, then attempting to destroy evidence that I did do it. The cover up is usually the bigger story than the actual crime, how big would Watergate be if Nixon stated that some of his men had done a break-in, and fired them?

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Is there actually a cover up? I haven't heard that. She did instruct her staffer to turn over all of the government related emails on her server, which they did. All other emails on her server where hers to do with however she wanted to dispose of them. Common practice. Nothing has been discovered to show that she lied or intentionally covered up anything. It's been investigated for months now. Am I missing something?

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Few people have the technical acumen or need to run a personal email server but have a personal email account, so I wonder how this scandal would have gone if it was just a gmail account that she used instead of the state.gov account

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A number of lower level government employees have been convicted of crimes for errors in handling classified material. No reason the same rules shouldn't apply to a Secretary of State.

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Fact:  classified material was sent by Secretary Clinton via email on non-State.gov servers.  Some will say that the information was "not marked" as classified and that may be true.  However, shouldn't the Secretary of State 1) understand what is actually classified (whether or not marked) and 2) exhibit enough judgement as to understand that she may, from time to time, receive and/or need to forward, information that MIGHT be classified and therefore ensure that ALL WORK RELATED emails go through her COMPANY'S (I.e. The State Department's) email?  The only way she can do that is to actually use it.  Huge error in judgement that I believe may yet to be shown as also illegal.

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

Fact:  classified material was sent by Secretary Clinton via email on non-State.gov servers.  Some will say that the information was "not marked" as classified and that may be true.  However, shouldn't the Secretary of State 1) understand what is actually classified (whether or not marked) and 2) exhibit enough judgement as to understand that she may, from time to time, receive and/or need to forward, information that MIGHT be classified and therefore ensure that ALL WORK RELATED emails go through her COMPANY'S (I.e. The State Department's) email?  The only way she can do that is to actually use it.  Huge error in judgement that I believe may yet to be shown as also illegal.

I totally agree with you UtterlyUrban. It was a huge error in judgement, but maybe not enough to classify it as a crime. I do believe that Hillary wasn't necessarily the best 'man' for the job, but maybe what she did wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. 

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At least she isn't a scam artist. A $25 million out of court settlement for the Trump University lawsuit says it all to me. Donald Trump is no more different than the Kevin Trudeau. A TV huckster scam artist. The only difference is that Kevin Trudeau is in jail! and Donald Trump is president elect of the United States and about to pull off the biggest scam in the history of the world.

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During the entire campaign, Trump bragged about never settling. A week after being elected, he settles for $25 million. I wonder what Russian will pay out?

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Anyone that voted for Trump is a sucker (and his contradictory actions the past week have shown he plans to enrich himself through the office and has the temperament of a child).

 

Hillary had a private server like other officials have done, and the emails she sent were not deemed classified at the time (only retroactively by conservative officials). She received 1.6million (and growing) more votes than Trump.

 

I plan to hold every person I know accountable for their vote by constantly reminding them of their terrible choice. I hope Trump proves me wrong... but those that criticized Obama for years (and subsequently shut up as the economy improved) now get their turn. The difference this time is that Republicans control everything. Their

failure this time around can only be blamed on themselves.

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5 hours ago, brian0123 said:

Anyone that voted for Trump is a sucker (and his contradictory actions the past week have shown he plans to enrich himself through the office and has the temperament of a child).

 

Hillary had a private server like other officials have done, and the emails she sent were not deemed classified at the time (only retroactively by conservative officials). She received 1.6million (and growing) more votes than Trump.

 

I plan to hold every person I know accountable for their vote by constantly reminding them of their terrible choice. I hope Trump proves me wrong... but those that criticized Obama for years (and subsequently shut up as the economy improved) now get their turn. The difference this time is that Republicans control everything. Their

failure this time around can only be blamed on themselves.

I voted for a 3rd part candidate as I could not vote for either.  

 

Keep in mind that "More votes" is irrelevant as Presidential candidates don't care about raw vote count.  They build their campaign strategies based on the electoral college and the strategies that come from that do not necessarily jive with winning the popular vote.  If they cared about the popular vote (I.e. There was no electoral college), their strategies would be very different.  If the electoral college was NOT there, Trump (and Clinton) would have run different campaigns and, because of that, it is impossible to say who would have won the popular vote.  

 

That said, I agree with you on most of your sentiment.  Trump will quickly start shooting his mouth off like a porcine brat and the Republicans in the House will pay with their jobs in 2 years if they don't deliver on "promises" Of "change"....

 

But, you mention a "fact" that I am unaware of:   Can you tell me what other Secretary of State exclusively used a private email server which they kept in the basement of their house?  Who?

Edited by UtterlyUrban

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12 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

I voted for a 3rd part candidate as I could not vote for either.  

 

Keep in mind that "More votes" is irrelevant as Presidential candidates don't care about raw vote count.  They build their campaign strategies based on the electoral college and the strategies that come from that do not necessarily jive with winning the popular vote.  If they cared about the popular vote (I.e. There was no electoral college), their strategies would be very different.  If the electoral college was NOT there, Trump (and Clinton) would have run different campaigns and, because of that, it is impossible to say who would have won the popular vote.  

 

That said, I agree with you on most of your sentiment.  Trump will quickly start shooting his mouth off like a porcine brat and the Republicans in the House will pay with their jobs in 2 years if they don't deliver on "promises" Of "change"....

 

But, you mention a "fact" that I am unaware of:   Can you tell me what other Secretary of State exclusively used a private email server which they kept in the basement of their house?  Who?

It was widely reported back then... One article I found http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/the-republicans-who-did-exactly-what-hillary-did

 

Personally I think her decision was stupid, but her email account corresponded with government run emails that could be searched for he content. If she truly wanted to hide something she would have created a mattlikescars@gmail account and used an offshore server.

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7 hours ago, brian0123 said:

It was widely reported back then... One article I found http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/the-republicans-who-did-exactly-what-hillary-did

 

Personally I think her decision was stupid, but her email account corresponded with government run emails that could be searched for he content. If she truly wanted to hide something she would have created a mattlikescars@gmail account and used an offshore server.

Ok, but  that MSNBC stuff is not the matter at hand: NO Secretary of State has ever used a personal email address EXCLUSIVELY for all communication (personal and State), hosted on his/her own computer housed in the bowels of his/her own house, maintained by a political staffer turned State employee who was paid by Clinton personally for his time to maintain the server but who may or may not have sufficient security training.

 

complicating matters further is the issues that OTHER PEOPLE WITHOUT SECURITY CLEARANCES (like Daughter Clinton) also had email adresses on that same server.  And, who else touched that machine with or without the correct security?  

 

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I expected Trump to win and, no, I wouldn't have it any other way. I trust Trump more than Clinton and I respect him more too. Not because of his crude comments, but the sheer fact that he was able to take 1 million dollars and turn it into 4 billion+ in a very cutthroat industry in a cutthroat town like New York. You can't be weak, indecisive and stupid and do all that and I would like our leader to be strong, decisive and intelligent on a business level. All this political garbage has to go and Trump is just the man to drain that swamp.

 

Four after the first four.

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No offense SirJac, but what? 4 billion? Where did that figure come from? Any reputable link will work.

 

Also, the man who said he never settles lawsuits... just settled one. Nothing like scamming desperate people for as much as $35,000 just to make another buck you don't need. 

 

The fact that people voted for this orange assclown is so damn discouraging. I didn't like Clinton, but she has a solid history of service and a serious desire to work hard. Trump is a lazy trust fund kid who couldn't even be bothered to study for a debate (it showed) and now can't be bothered to sit in on security briefings.

 

God save me from your "followers."

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But, he's been having so much fun these past few days, parading a line of people in front of the cameras, interviewing each for a job in his administration. Just like the Celebrity Apprentice show. 

 

BTW, could he please hire Rick Perry and give him a job far away from us. His embarrassing appearance on "Dancing with the Stars" the other night is just another reason people in the rest of the world think most of us in Texas are stupid idiots! I'm beginning to think so too.

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17 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

No offense SirJac, but what? 4 billion? Where did that figure come from? Any reputable link will work.

 

Also, the man who said he never settles lawsuits... just settled one. Nothing like scamming desperate people for as much as $35,000 just to make another buck you don't need. 

 

The fact that people voted for this orange assclown is so damn discouraging. I didn't like Clinton, but she has a solid history of service and a serious desire to work hard. Trump is a lazy trust fund kid who couldn't even be bothered to study for a debate (it showed) and now can't be bothered to sit in on security briefings.

 

God save me from your "followers."

Clinton is a women with no moral compass and poor judgement.

Trump is a man with no moral compass and poor judgment.

 

Both are miserable.  Perhaps, IMO, the most miserable two candidates ever nominated by two miserable parties.  The Miserable Female Millionaire "public servant"  was so miserable that she couldn't win against the Miserable Male (supposedly rich) "reality TV douche."  

 

The electoral college system will soon decide which miserable candidate is President for the next 4 years.

 

the democrats should be as embarrassed as the republicans for nominating "Les Misérables"......  and we all should be ashamed of both.

 

 

Edited by UtterlyUrban

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A thought exercise:

 

This is not a poll - no public answer is needed or even wanted.  

 

For those on either side who are complaining of the quality of the candidates... Did you listen to / watch / read media that doesn't reinforce your basic set of inclinations?  Did you vote in the primary?  Did you contribute time and/or money to the candidate of your choice?  Have you contributed time and/or money to political organizations and/or issue groups (not individual candidates) that you support? 

 

Most importantly:  Did you try to engage in civil conversation with others who may not agree with you?  If so, were you the last person to give up and start shouting, or the first?

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1 hour ago, mollusk said:

A thought exercise:

 

This is not a poll - no public answer is needed or even wanted.  

 

For those on either side who are complaining of the quality of the candidates... Did you listen to / watch / read media that doesn't reinforce your basic set of inclinations?  Did you vote in the primary?  Did you contribute time and/or money to the candidate of your choice?  Have you contributed time and/or money to political organizations and/or issue groups (not individual candidates) that you support? 

 

Most importantly:  Did you try to engage in civil conversation with others who may not agree with you?  If so, were you the last person to give up and start shouting, or the first?

Mollusk:

 

the answers to your questions" for me personally, is "yes".  

I read a host of news/political sources from the right, left, and (shrinking) center.

I supported a candidate in the primaries and gave money to same.

i have given money or labor to a parties and other causes I support.

 

And, to the last question, I have never been in a political discussion with anyone in which he/she or I started shouting, I leave that to fools and children.

 

All that said, both Candidates in this Presidential election were miserable. 

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 "no moral compass" is a right wing radio cliche talking point. The radio hosts restated this quote over and over again through out the campaign. (Yes I listened). 

The next time I hear anyone use this phrase again any against future democratic candidate, or claim the opposite for their republican choice I will claim foul, and call them out for the hippocratic that they are. The "right" has closed the door on the use of "moral" in any future campaign. 

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44 minutes ago, plumber2 said:

 "no moral compass" is a right wing radio cliche talking point. The radio hosts restated this quote over and over again through out the campaign. (Yes I listened). 

The next time I hear anyone use this phrase again any against future democratic candidate, or claim the opposite for their republican choice I will claim foul, and call them out for the hippocratic that they are. The "right" has closed the door on the use of "moral" in any future campaign. 

IMO, as I have already stated, Clinton has no moral compass.  And neither does Trump.

 

do you now intend to call me a hypocrite or do you intend to ask me to take an oath for Doctors?

 

 

 

 

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No Utter, I wasn't even referring to you personally. I was just using your post (sorry about that) to point out the continuous use of those words in print and on air. (Especially the word "moral"). I'll try not to step on you again like that.

(I also notice the humor in your spell checking me. I kind of like you now.)

 

 

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Someone bumped this thread by liking a post of mine. It's fun to read now.

 

Anyone here willing to admit that Trump hasn't been great or that they'd still prefer him over Hillary? Anyone willing to admit that Trump will likely serve jail time before Hillary?

 

The Russia thing existed for a long time before the election, but, y'all, her emails!

 

 

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