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VinnyVincent

Why does everyone keep talking about toll roads like it's a positive thing?

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3 hours ago, VinnyVincent said:

"not necessarily toll lanes"???:lol:

Dude get real. I commute on 290 for it's entire congested section on a daily basis and I can tell you the you are way off on that brother. Let me break it down for you; read closely since you have now made it known that you don't even live in Houston but somehow know what's best for our local transportation...

The single lane that it currently has is under-used during HOV only hours as it is.

TO suggest that it "needed" two MORE lanes is totally absurd. There simply aren't that many people driving multi passenger vehicles during congested hours. It's about revenue plain and simple.

THat's ALL and HOT lane is folks...it's a GLORIFIED TOLL ROAD

 

 

Since you don't even live here you probably don't know the people who legitimately use the HOV have pushed back more than once when the HOT hours were being extended far into rush hour and causing the HOV drivers to have to sit in traffic caused by people paying the HOT toll. That should clue you in right there. The lane started as strictly HOV and motorcycles, then they saw an opportunity to make some money so made it an HOT, then they started expanding the hours to effectively make the lane a glorified toll road.

Further more look at the I-10 lanes which are managed by HCTRA. They don't allow motorcycles on for free. Why is it that metro allows motorcycles on for free on the 290 HOT, but HCTRA charges motorcycles like cars on the I-10 lanes?....guess they don't care if motorcyclists die is the way I see it. They'd rather make that five dollars each way than save someone life. Can you believe that?

 

 

 

As it stands, they are only expanding the main lanes by one lane in each direction. Adding two more HOT lanes would have effectively troubled the expansion efforts, correct?... why we they only contributing 400 million if the proposed effort was doubling the amount of development? Gee something is funny there. Wonder what the real reason they backed out was lol!

 

Only expanding the main lanes by one lane in each direction?  Wrong.

 

Here is information from HCTRA's website regarding motorcycles on the Katy Managed Lanes:


icon_motorcycle.gif 
MOTORCYCLES 

Quick toll guide:
 

Free during HOV hours: Monday through Friday, 5 am – 11 am and 2 pm – 8 pm, eastbound and westbound.

Be sure to pass through the tolling plaza in the HOV lane on the left.

No registration is currently required.

Subject to tolls at all other times, and on all other Harris County toll roads.

EZ TAG or TxTag required to ride the managed lanes during non-HOV hours

Tolls during non-HOV hours, including weekends: $0.30 - $0.40 per tolling plaza.

 

Every one of your posts is riddled with misinformation and lies  Are you really that ignorant or are you that dishonest? Either way, please stop.

Edited by Houston19514

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2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Only expanding the main lanes by one lane in each direction?  Wrong.

 

Here is information from HCTRA's website regarding motorcycles on the Katy Managed Lanes:


icon_motorcycle.gif 
MOTORCYCLES 

Quick toll guide:
 

Free during HOV hours: Monday through Friday, 5 am – 11 am and 2 pm – 8 pm, eastbound and westbound.

Be sure to pass through the tolling plaza in the HOV lane on the left.

No registration is currently required.

Subject to tolls at all other times, and on all other Harris County toll roads.

EZ TAG or TxTag required to ride the managed lanes during non-HOV hours

Tolls during non-HOV hours, including weekends: $0.30 - $0.40 per tolling plaza.

 

Every one of your posts is riddled with misinformation and lies  Are you really that ignorant or are you that dishonest? Either way, please stop.

Dude...read the information you just posted lol.

It says "subject to tolls at other times". Meaning "not free".

THat's not the case on the 290 HOV, it is always free.

Trust me I would know, I commuted on a MC for years.

 

Last I checked they were only expanding 290 one lane in each direction. Perhaps that info is outdated now since the whole thing has been a total train wreck and keeps changing as time goes by(likely due to HCTRA throwing a monkey wrench into the whole thing when they tried to scam us to begin with)

 

So I really don't think it's fair to call me ignorant/dishonest when you didn't even read the HCTRA info you posted and if you are so aware of whats going on with the 290 project like you portray yourself to be, you would know good and well that it had been planned as a one lane expansion in each direction for quite some time.

 

You sure you're from Houston or are yet another person who isn't even from here, who "rode on the HOV one time when traveling" and is getting the rest of their info from heresy and google?:P

Edited by VinnyVincent

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7 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Dude...read the information you just posted lol.

It says "subject to tolls at other times". Meaning "not free".

THat's not the case on the 290 HOV, it is always free.

Trust me I would know, I commuted on a MC for years.

 

Last I checked they were only expanding 290 one lane in each direction. Perhaps that info is outdated now since the whole thing has been a total train wreck and keeps changing as time goes by(likely due to HCTRA throwing a monkey wrench into the whole thing when they tried to scam us to begin with)

 

So I really don't think it's fair to call me ignorant/dishonest when you didn't even read the HCTRA info you posted and if you are so aware of whats going on with the 290 project like you portray yourself to be, you would know good and well that it had been planned as a one lane expansion in each direction for quite some time.

 

You sure you're from Houston or are yet another person who isn't even from here, who "rode on the HOV one time when traveling" and is getting the rest of their info from heresy and google?:P

 

I did read it.  Contrary to what you told us, motorcycles get free HOV privileges on the Katy managed lanes just as they do on Metro's HOV lanes.  They also get the bonus (as do other motorists) of being able to use the lanes in non-HOV times for a charge, something that is not possible for any price on Metro's HOV lanes.

 

I believe you when you now tell us you don't know how many lanes are being added to 290 (it's more than 1).  You've demonstrated in pretty much every post in this thread that you don't know what you are talking about, but are perfectly happy just making it up as you go along.

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8 hours ago, VinnyVincent said:

"not necessarily toll lanes"???:lol:

Dude get real. I commute on 290 for it's entire congested section on a daily basis and I can tell you the you are way off on that brother. Let me break it down for you; read closely since you have now made it known that you don't even live in Houston but somehow know what's best for our local transportation...

The single lane that it currently has is under-used during HOV only hours as it is.

TO suggest that it "needed" two MORE lanes is totally absurd. There simply aren't that many people driving multi passenger vehicles during congested hours. It's about revenue plain and simple.

THat's ALL and HOT lane is folks...it's a GLORIFIED TOLL ROAD

 

 

Since you don't even live here you probably don't know the people who legitimately use the HOV have pushed back more than once when the HOT hours were being extended far into rush hour and causing the HOV drivers to have to sit in traffic caused by people paying the HOT toll. That should clue you in right there. The lane started as strictly HOV and motorcycles, then they saw an opportunity to make some money so made it an HOT, then they started expanding the hours to effectively make the lane a glorified toll road.

Further more look at the I-10 lanes which are managed by HCTRA. They don't allow motorcycles on for free. Why is it that metro allows motorcycles on for free on the 290 HOT, but HCTRA charges motorcycles like cars on the I-10 lanes?....guess they don't care if motorcyclists die is the way I see it. They'd rather make that five dollars each way than save someone life. Can you believe that?

 

 

 

As it stands, they are only expanding the main lanes by one lane in each direction. Adding two more HOT lanes would have effectively troubled the expansion efforts, correct?... why we they only contributing 400 million if the proposed effort was doubling the amount of development? Gee something is funny there. Wonder what the real reason they backed out was lol!

 

Wrong. I lived in Houston for three months, and have probably racked up more mileage on 290 than any other intercity highway, driving my own car. The lane gets jammed because it is one lane, so if someone is driving slower than the rest of traffic, gets stalled, or yields to a bus turning onto the lane, it mucks up traffic, irrelevant of HOT vs. HOV drivers.

 

And while I don't live in Houston anymore, yes, that is a fact, I don't see how my opinions are any less valid than a toll road conspiracy theorist.

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On 1/2/2017 at 4:02 PM, Houston19514 said:

 

I did read it.  Contrary to what you told us, motorcycles get free HOV privileges on the Katy managed lanes just as they do on Metro's HOV lanes.  They also get the bonus (as do other motorists) of being able to use the lanes in non-HOV times for a charge, something that is not possible for any price on Metro's HOV lanes.

 

I believe you when you now tell us you don't know how many lanes are being added to 290 (it's more than 1).  You've demonstrated in pretty much every post in this thread that you don't know what you are talking about, but are perfectly happy just making it up as you go along.

 

 

You're the one talking out of your ass here. I commuted on 290 DURING the non HOV hours, in the HOT lane, for free.

Personally did it on a daily basis for work...so not only is it an option to ride the HOT hours with metro, but metro doesn't give you the "bonus" of having to pay tolls like HCTRA does in I-10.

You do realize that using the lanes during HOT hours "FOR A FEE" does not mean it's free right? I sure hope so...

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On 1/2/2017 at 6:37 PM, IronTiger said:

 

Wrong. I lived in Houston for three months, and have probably racked up more mileage on 290 than any other intercity highway, driving my own car. The lane gets jammed because it is one lane, so if someone is driving slower than the rest of traffic, gets stalled, or yields to a bus turning onto the lane, it mucks up traffic, irrelevant of HOT vs. HOV drivers.

 

And while I don't live in Houston anymore, yes, that is a fact, I don't see how my opinions are any less valid than a toll road conspiracy theorist.

Three months? lol I guess that means you're an expert.

Contrary to you I have been commuting the stretch from barker cypress to 610 daily, during prime traffic hoursfor almost ten years now.its clogged up because metro opened the lanes up to use as an HOT lane. Period. The lane does not get backed up during HOV hours because hardly anyone carpools during their commute/rush hour.

In other words it's clogged up because they decided to open it up as a toll lane. If they used the lane as as designed(an HOV lane not a toll road) one lane would be plenty. Instead of gee, I dunno adding additional main lanes, they decided to plan on adding more toll lanes.

Edited by VinnyVincent

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24 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Three months? lol I guess that means you're an expert.

Contrary to you I have been commuting the stretch from barker cypress to 610 daily, during prime traffic hoursfor almost ten years now.its clogged up because metro opened the lanes up to use as an HOT lane. Period. The lane does not get backed up during HOV hours because hardly anyone carpools during their commute/rush hour.

In other words it's clogged up because they decided to open it up as a toll lane. If they used the lane as as designed(an HOV lane not a toll road) one lane would be plenty. Instead of gee, I dunno adding additional main lanes, they decided to plan on adding more toll lanes.

 

"Hardly anyone carpools during their commute/rush hour"? Gee, I guess when it's 7:00 and traffic is backed up, the 3+ only HOV lane is totally empty, isn't it? Show of hands for those who actually commute that way and think that's BS, right?

 

I just checked Google's traffic site for the 290 HOT lane at 10:40 central time. All green, except for a little orange around the 290/610 intersection...and this is consistent with what I've observed in reality. I'm not sure where you get this "No congestion during peak hours but YUUUUGE congestion otherwise" talk.

 

A little research shows that the 2+ carpooling pre-2000 had severe congestion problems, so much so that 3+ had to be used ([link]) in peak hours and the extra capacity allowed HOT lanes to be used in the first place, so this "No congestion until HOT lanes and BAM! congestion" thing happened. And remember, it's only one lane, so if someone stalls out, then the traffic is going to grind to a halt no matter how many toll or HOV users there are.

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38 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

 

"Hardly anyone carpools during their commute/rush hour"? Gee, I guess when it's 7:00 and traffic is backed up, the 3+ only HOV lane is totally empty, isn't it? Show of hands for those who actually commute that way and think that's BS, right?

 

I just checked Google's traffic site for the 290 HOT lane at 10:40 central time. All green, except for a little orange around the 290/610 intersection...and this is consistent with what I've observed in reality. I'm not sure where you get this "No congestion during peak hours but YUUUUGE congestion otherwise" talk.

 

A little research shows that the 2+ carpooling pre-2000 had severe congestion problems, so much so that 3+ had to be used ([link]) in peak hours and the extra capacity allowed HOT lanes to be used in the first place, so this "No congestion until HOT lanes and BAM! congestion" thing happened. And remember, it's only one lane, so if someone stalls out, then the traffic is going to grind to a halt no matter how many toll or HOV users there are.

I've lived off 290 back when it was only an HOV lane with not HOT option.

It was never backed up until they made it an HOT lane. Period. End of story.

 

I ride my motorcycle on the HOV lane during the time when it gets switched from HOT to HOV only. Sometimes I am there early and the thing is backed up all the way out of the park and ride station...show up a little late when it's HOV only and I ride right through without even slowing down.

 

I'm speaking from real world experience here. You're somebody living out of state using google trying to tell me you know  the road I commute on daily better than I do...

 

Anyways try to read between the lines a little instead of being a total sheeple type. Read what you just said "switching to 3+ allowed the lanes to be used as HOT in the first place". Okay so traffic was too bad to allow single riders to pay toll so what do they do? Change the carpooling requirements so that virtually no one can use the car pool lane to allow room for single riders to pay toll...yeah that makes a lot of sense right? Maybe if you're the one collecting tolls it does...

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49 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

 

"Hardly anyone carpools during their commute/rush hour"? Gee, I guess when it's 7:00 and traffic is backed up, the 3+ only HOV lane is totally empty, isn't it? Show of hands for those who actually commute that way and think that's BS, right?

 

I just checked Google's traffic site for the 290 HOT lane at 10:40 central time. All green, except for a little orange around the 290/610 intersection...and this is consistent with what I've observed in reality. I'm not sure where you get this "No congestion during peak hours but YUUUUGE congestion otherwise" talk.

 

A little research shows that the 2+ carpooling pre-2000 had severe congestion problems, so much so that 3+ had to be used ([link]) in peak hours and the extra capacity allowed HOT lanes to be used in the first place, so this "No congestion until HOT lanes and BAM! congestion" thing happened. And remember, it's only one lane, so if someone stalls out, then the traffic is going to grind to a halt no matter how many toll or HOV users there are.

Did you even read that link you posted? The "congestion" was in the Katy HOV lanes, not 290. They simply forced parts of the I-10 legislation onto the 290 lane which is the extent of 290 being mentioned in that article lol...

 

Why are you trying to debunk this so bad? I'm telling you we are being pissed on and told it's raining.

That freaking lane was NEVER congested until they made it HOT. Some .gov site mentions a different road nearby being congested and right away you think it applies to 290 and they have no reason to use some phony excuse to charge you extra taxes AKA tolls? Lol...I guess I should just give it up. Apparently everyone likes getting the shaft by their local government while they pretend they are being taken care of. WHat a joke.

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1 hour ago, VinnyVincent said:

Three months? lol I guess that means you're an expert.

Contrary to you I have been commuting the stretch from barker cypress to 610 daily, during prime traffic hoursfor almost ten years now.its clogged up because metro opened the lanes up to use as an HOT lane. Period. The lane does not get backed up during HOV hours because hardly anyone carpools during their commute/rush hour.

In other words it's clogged up because they decided to open it up as a toll lane. If they used the lane as as designed(an HOV lane not a toll road) one lane would be plenty. Instead of gee, I dunno adding additional main lanes, they decided to plan on adding more toll lanes.

 

Part of the problem of adding HOV exclusive express lanes is that they're severely underutilized relative to construction cost.

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22 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Did you even read that link you posted? The "congestion" was in the Katy HOV lanes, not 290. They simply forced parts of the I-10 legislation onto the 290 lane which is the extent of 290 being mentioned in that article lol...

 

Why are you trying to debunk this so bad? I'm telling you we are being pissed on and told it's raining.

That freaking lane was NEVER congested until they made it HOT. Some .gov site mentions a different road nearby being congested and right away you think it applies to 290 and they have no reason to use some phony excuse to charge you extra taxes AKA tolls? Lol...I guess I should just give it up. Apparently everyone likes getting the shaft by their local government while they pretend they are being taken care of. WHat a joke.

The I-10 lanes weren't designed the same way the 290 ones were, they were funded differently, and after the I-10 rebuild, it was always designed to be a toll road with HOV benefits...and in my times driving on I-10 in peak and non-peak hours from roughly Gessner to 610, I never saw this off-peak congestion you refer to, and certainly it was always less congested than the main lanes.

 

And indeed, looking at Houston Transtar's map for Houston...all green in the center lanes for Katy at 12:10 pm.

 

Since it seems you clearly aren't interested in the facts and accuse anyone who disagrees with you as being an HCTRA plant, what's your point?

Edited by IronTiger
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41 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

 

The I-10 lanes weren't designed the same way the 290 ones were, they were funded differently, and after the I-10 rebuild, it was always designed to be a toll road with HOV benefits...and in my times driving on I-10 in peak and non-peak hours from roughly Gessner to 610, I never saw this off-peak congestion you refer to, and certainly it was always less congested than the main lanes.

 

And indeed, looking at Houston Transtar's map for Houston...all green in the center lanes for Katy at 12:10 pm.

 

Since it seems you clearly aren't interested in the facts and accuse anyone who disagrees with you as being an HCTRA plant, what's your point?

I think you might be missing the part where I was referring to the time frame CLOSE to HOV only hours. AKA heavy traffic hours where there is stop and go trffic on main lanes, yet the HOV is open to single riders paying toll(HOT)

 

Of course there's no traffic at 12P.M. in a lane you have to pay toll in(don't be silly) Which brings me to my whole point about motorcycles; The whole reason they are allowed on the HOV is a state thing that has to do with safety. However, rush hour is not the time when a motorcyclists life is in danger the most. That would be when traffic is heavy yet flowing at full speed...precisely the time when the kind folks at HCTRA are making cyclists pay a toll. Why do they do that you ask? Because during "HOT" hours it is legally a toll lane not an HOV, so no more state requirement to protect motorcyclists safety...thanks a lot for caring HCTRA :rolleyes:

 

at any rate, I wasn't referring to that time frame when I mentioned HOT congestion disrupting HOV users. HOV switches to HOT only at 4:30p.m. now(recently pushed back from 5p.m. due to complaints from HOV users sitting in HOT traffic)

Try showing up at 4:10 and then show up at 4:45. You'll be waiting in line all the way back to I-10 at 4:10 VS driving right thru at 4:45 during HOV only hours. 

Things change fast in our city bro. You lived here for three months and then moved however long ago. Sorry bro but you likely know next to nothing about commuting in houston. I'm not exactly sure why you are participating in this discussion TBH when you have no real world experience in the matter.

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54 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

I think you might be missing the part where I was referring to the time frame CLOSE to HOV only hours. AKA heavy traffic hours where there is stop and go trffic on main lanes, yet the HOV is open to single riders paying toll(HOT)

 

Of course there's no traffic at 12P.M. in a lane you have to pay toll in(don't be silly) Which brings me to my whole point about motorcycles; The whole reason they are allowed on the HOV is a state thing that has to do with safety. However, rush hour is not the time when a motorcyclists life is in danger the most. That would be when traffic is heavy yet flowing at full speed...precisely the time when the kind folks at HCTRA are making cyclists pay a toll. Why do they do that you ask? Because during "HOT" hours it is legally a toll lane not an HOV, so no more state requirement to protect motorcyclists safety...thanks a lot for caring HCTRA :rolleyes:

 

at any rate, I wasn't referring to that time frame when I mentioned HOT congestion disrupting HOV users. HOV switches to HOT only at 4:30p.m. now(recently pushed back from 5p.m. due to complaints from HOV users sitting in HOT traffic)

Try showing up at 4:10 and then show up at 4:45. You'll be waiting in line all the way back to I-10 at 4:10 VS driving right thru at 4:45 during HOV only hours. 

Things change fast in our city bro. You lived here for three months and then moved however long ago. Sorry bro but you likely know next to nothing about commuting in houston. I'm not exactly sure why you are participating in this discussion TBH when you have no real world experience in the matter.

 

Less than a year ago, taking I-10 in different parts of the day since my part time job was inconsistent in that department. And no, I still live in the state. And also I should point out how quickly you went from "Well, outside the HOV-only hours, the road is ALWAYS jammed," (the exact quote was "its clogged up because metro opened the lanes up to use as an HOT lane") to "No, of course no one is going to clog up the toll lanes in the middle of the day, don't be ridiculous." But that's not my point, if we're talking the Katy Freeway lanes, the original pre-HOT lanes were part of the old Katy Freeway, with the old single lane like the Northwest Freeway...built in the median. With the Katy Freeway rebuild, the new "Katy Tollway" was always open to HOT traffic as per the PDF linked above. Trying to compare traffic counts between the old Katy Freeway HOV and the current Katy Tollway is going to be very different. The only other major change is price hikes for single-occupant users. Not that I expect any of this to change your mind, of course--your disregard of it and accusations of me being part of the Tolluminati somehow gives me the impression of you'll refuse to believe no matter what. ("A .gov page? Remember, they claimed that we actually landed on the Moon in 1969. No way I'd believe ANYTHING from them.")

 

And speaking of wild accusations, your "HCTRA doesn't care about motorcyclists" argument is crazy as well, because driving in heavy traffic at full speed often happens regardless of any toll roads. Motorcycling is inherently dangerous because you're less visible to other drivers and don't have the benefit of being surrounded by an exterior designed to crush in an accident instead of you (not to mention seatbelts and airbags), whereas motorcyclists just have a helmet and the clothes on their back, and I'm going to take the benefit of the doubt and assume that you do wear a helmet and aren't one of those guys that weave between lanes at higher speeds than vehicular (car) traffic. There is nothing HCTRA or TxDOT can do that will make it significantly safer for you short of a strictly enforced speed limit for anything with a motor.

 

Edited by IronTiger
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9 hours ago, IronTiger said:

And speaking of wild accusations, your "HCTRA doesn't care about motorcyclists" argument is crazy as well, because driving in heavy traffic at full speed often happens regardless of any toll roads. Motorcycling is inherently dangerous because you're less visible to other drivers and don't have the benefit of being surrounded by an exterior designed to crush in an accident instead of you (not to mention seatbelts and airbags), whereas motorcyclists just have a helmet and the clothes on their back, and I'm going to take the benefit of the doubt and assume that you do wear a helmet and aren't one of those guys that weave between lanes at higher speeds than vehicular (car) traffic. There is nothing HCTRA or TxDOT can do that will make it significantly safer for you short of a strictly enforced speed limit for anything with a motor.

 

Wrong. They can let me ride on their enclosed HOV lane which greatly reduces the risk of another car not seeing me and running into my lane, thus causing me to crash and not have the protection of airbags, seatbelt or a metal frame(thanks for pointing that out they didn't go over it in my MSF course) 

Apparently your opinion in this matter is the minority since your elected officials as well as elected officials in most states have decided to let motorcycles use the HOV lane for free in order to prevent accidents. 

Your friends over at HCTRA however decided to charge motorcyclists to the fullest extent of the law, so during the hours when it's a TOLL ROAD they charge motorcycles to use the lane, therefor most of them aren't going to pay since traffic is moving at full speed and thus are at higher risk. Thanks HCTRA.

Metro doesn't extend such courtesy and instead they let motorcycles use the lane for free any time, and especially when it actually benefits them, which is when traffic is traveling at full speed.

 

Edited by VinnyVincent

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We can go back and forth on this but the bottom line is HCTRA and their proposal to put three "HOV" lanes in the center of 290 was nothing more than an attempt to turn 290 into a toll road. It's only an HOV lane for what 2 hours a day? The rest of the day it operates just like any other toll road.

But dang how do they get all that traffic($) they are missing during rush hour? Oh thats right they change it to a three passenger minimum and charge everyone else who does't have three passengers, which is pretty much everyone.

Call it an HOV lane to smooth it over with the sheeple(you apparently) and everyones happy. They get their toll road and you think they somehow compromised and actually care how long you sit in traffic and not anything more than how much they can extract...Why didn't I think of that?

 

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8 hours ago, VinnyVincent said:

We can go back and forth on this but the bottom line is HCTRA and their proposal to put three "HOV" lanes in the center of 290 was nothing more than an attempt to turn 290 into a toll road. It's only an HOV lane for what 2 hours a day? The rest of the day it operates just like any other toll road.

But dang how do they get all that traffic($) they are missing during rush hour? Oh thats right they change it to a three passenger minimum and charge everyone else who does't have three passengers, which is pretty much everyone.

Call it an HOV lane to smooth it over with the sheeple(you apparently) and everyones happy. They get their toll road and you think they somehow compromised and actually care how long you sit in traffic and not anything more than how much they can extract...Why didn't I think of that?

 

 

 

So if I have this right, you want the HOT lanes on 290 to remain single-lane so you don't have to worry about anyone cutting into your lane. Got it. A bit selfish, I suppose, but at least it kind of makes sense.

 

Since now we've resorted to the "sheeple" argument, I'd like to show you this little thing that you inspired me with the other day. I'm thinking of making it my new avatar.

 

 

tolluminati.png

Edited by IronTiger
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There are two ways to reduce congestion in the HOV/HOT lanes: 1) raise HOT prices and 2) increase the passenger count required for HOV access. I don't see how you don't understand the rationale behind this, Vinny. The 290 HOV lanes are open from 5AM - 11AM inbound and 2PM - 8PM outbound. The only 3+ passenger time is 6:30AM to 8:00AM. The reason for this increase is that there were too many vehicles in the lane. It was underutilized as an HOV-exclusive lane, and it is over-utilized following a peak hour, HOV/low-cost HOT setup. So from 6:30 to 8:00 it is HOV only (3+)/no HOT, and just prior to that, it is $7 for the HOT lane with a $5 rate just after that window. However, HOV (2+) usage is still permitted at other times. These are lane-management methods, Vinny. And the 6:30-8:00 window is given to preserve timeliness of service for the bus service that the lanes were designed for.

Edited by The Pragmatist
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5 hours ago, The Pragmatist said:

There are two ways to reduce congestion in the HOV/HOT lanes: 1) raise HOT prices and 2) increase the passenger count required for HOV access. I don't see how you don't understand the rationale behind this, Vinny. The 290 HOV lanes are open from 5AM - 11AM inbound and 2PM - 8PM outbound. The only 3+ passenger time is 6:30AM to 8:00AM. The reason for this increase is that there were too many vehicles in the lane. It was underutilized as an HOV-exclusive lane, and it is over-utilized following a peak hour, HOV/low-cost HOT setup. So from 6:30 to 8:00 it is HOV only (3+)/no HOT, and just prior to that, it is $7 for the HOT lane with a $5 rate just after that window. However, HOV (2+) usage is still permitted at other times. These are lane-management methods, Vinny. And the 6:30-8:00 window is given to preserve timeliness of service for the bus service that the lanes were designed for.

Actually we've gotten quite far off topic here. (possibly iron tigers intention with his troll antics)

 

I could make some points where it kind of isn't their intention, rather an excuse to make the road more profitable, but I'd rather go another direction...

 

I understand that all that is a method to reduce HOV lane congestion.(at least it seems that way) What I don't understand is why 290 needs 3 "HOV" lanes when I ride my motorcycle down the HOV lane between 6:30-6:50 doing anywhere from 60-80 mph depending on who is leading the pack, meanwhile traffic in the main lanes is completely stopped for miles. It literally looks like driving by a parking lot that is miles long some mornings.

After you witness that and then you read about a plan for them to expand the mainlanes by only one lane, all while adding two more "HOV" lanes that are actually just toll roads 90% of the time, it becomes quite obvious what they are trying to accomplish.

Edited by VinnyVincent

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3 hours ago, VinnyVincent said:

Actually we've gotten quite far off topic here. (possibly iron tigers intention with his troll antics)

 

 

I wasn't trolling (well, if the "Tolluminati" image really bothers you that much, I can remove it) but let's not point fingers...you were the one who dragged this topic into how HCTRA is evil and anyone who says otherwise is probably associated with it.

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19 hours ago, IronTiger said:

I wasn't trolling (well, if the "Tolluminati" image really bothers you that much, I can remove it) but let's not point fingers...you were the one who dragged this topic into how HCTRA is evil and anyone who says otherwise is probably associated with it.

The Tolluminati thing is awesome - keep it. Thanks for reminding to check my account to see if my monthly payment from HCTRA is there yet. (that's satire, for the less perceptive among us)

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On 1/4/2017 at 10:03 AM, VinnyVincent said:

 

 

You're the one talking out of your ass here. I commuted on 290 DURING the non HOV hours, in the HOT lane, for free.

Personally did it on a daily basis for work...so not only is it an option to ride the HOT hours with metro, but metro doesn't give you the "bonus" of having to pay tolls like HCTRA does in I-10.

You do realize that using the lanes during HOT hours "FOR A FEE" does not mean it's free right? I sure hope so...

 

OMG.  I know this is a waste of time, but here goes.  You did not commute on the 290 HOV/HOT lanes during non-HOV hours.  The 290 HOV/HOT lanes do not have any non-HOV hours during which the lanes are open.  When it's open, it's an HOV.  It's free for motorcycles during all HOV hours, just as are the I-10 Managed lanes.  Stop lying.

 

For anyone interested in facts:

 

Here are the hours the 290 HOV/HOT lane is open.  Note that all open hours are HOV hours.  

 

US 290 West 
Northwest Freeway 

Monday - Friday 

5 - 6:30 a.m. 
6:30 - 8 a.m. 
8 - 11 a.m. 
1 - 8 p.m. 

Inbound
Inbound
Inbound
Outbound 

2+
3+
2+
2+

Edited by Houston19514

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Federal law allows motorcycles to use HOV lanes, even with only one passenger. (link, at #15).  It was not always thus - Houston's first contraflow lanes did not allow them; at first neither did the fully separated HOV lanes that replaced them.  The Federal mandate came into being in part because of this.

 

 

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On 1/7/2017 at 2:36 PM, Houston19514 said:

 

OMG.  I know this is a waste of time, but here goes.  You did not commute on the 290 HOV/HOT lanes during non-HOV hours.  The 290 HOV/HOT lanes do not have any non-HOV hours during which the lanes are open.  When it's open, it's an HOV.  It's free for motorcycles during all HOV hours, just as are the I-10 Managed lanes.  Stop lying.

 

For anyone interested in facts:

 

Here are the hours the 290 HOV/HOT lane is open.  Note that all open hours are HOV hours.  

 

US 290 West 
Northwest Freeway 

Monday - Friday 

5 - 6:30 a.m. 
6:30 - 8 a.m. 
8 - 11 a.m. 
1 - 8 p.m. 

Inbound
Inbound
Inbound
Outbound 

2+
3+
2+
2+

Try to keep up...

 

You do realize I have to drive home? I've already gone over those times...no one is lying here.

If you were really trying to educate people on the facts, you would post where motorcycles are free during HOT hours as well.

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2 hours ago, VinnyVincent said:

Try to keep up...

 

You do realize I have to drive home? I've already gone over those times...no one is lying here.

If you were really trying to educate people on the facts, you would post where motorcycles are free during HOT hours as well.

 

Try to keep up indeed.  Both the 290 HOV lane and the Katy managed lanes allow motorcycles free usage during all HOV hours.  Your statements to the contrary are false. The 290 HOV lane is ALWAYS HOV.  Every hour it is open it is HOV.  It is impossible to use the 290 HOV lane in non-HOV hours. In fact, on the Katy managed lanes, motorcycles can ride free 12 hours each day, in both directions.  The 290 HOV lane only offers free motorcycle rides 6 hours in one direction and 7 hours in the other direction each day.  After examining the facts, your initial idea that HCTRA doesn't care about the lives of motorcycle riders because they don't let them ride free the way Metro does on 290 is even more insane than it first sounded.

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HOV, HOT... since they're only separated by the letter U it gets very confusing.

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On 1/10/2017 at 11:43 AM, Houston19514 said:

 

Try to keep up indeed.  Both the 290 HOV lane and the Katy managed lanes allow motorcycles free usage during all HOV hours.  Your statements to the contrary are false. The 290 HOV lane is ALWAYS HOV.  Every hour it is open it is HOV.  It is impossible to use the 290 HOV lane in non-HOV hours. In fact, on the Katy managed lanes, motorcycles can ride free 12 hours each day, in both directions.  The 290 HOV lane only offers free motorcycle rides 6 hours in one direction and 7 hours in the other direction each day.  After examining the facts, your initial idea that HCTRA doesn't care about the lives of motorcycle riders because they don't let them ride free the way Metro does on 290 is even more insane than it first sounded.

Okay not sure where you got any of that from but if that's what you think after reading their website I think you may have some serious reading comprehension problems.

 

 but we aren't talking about HOV. We are talking about HOT hours. 290 is not ALWAYS HOV. What are you smoking? I ride past the sign that says "HOT: 5.00" daily.

 

motorcycles are free on 290 during HOV AND HOT hours.

 

They are not free on I-10 during their HOT hours.

 

 

Seems to me like you aren't understanding the info you are reading correctly. 

 

Let me guess; you don't even live in Houston either?

Edited by VinnyVincent

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Will motorcycles be allowed to use the Katy Managed Lanes?

 

Yes. Motorcycles qualify as HOV 2+ on the Katy Managed Lanes and may use the facility free of charge during HOV hours. Note: Motorcycles must pay a toll on all other Harris County Toll Road Authority facilities, as well as on the managed lanes during non-HOV hours. [Emphasis added]

 

https://www.hctra.org/KatyManagedLanes

 

That said, there are 5 free lanes next to the two 2 tolled managed lanes.  

 

The best way to think about it is the Katy Managed lanes are a tollroad that waives the tolls to high occupancy vehicles during peak travel hours.

US-290 has an HOV lane that during certain times of the day allows you to pay a toll to use as a single occupancy vehicle.

 

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11 minutes ago, cspwal said:

 

https://www.hctra.org/KatyManagedLanes

 

That said, there are 5 free lanes next to the two 2 tolled managed lanes.  

 

The best way to think about it is the Katy Managed lanes are a tollroad that waives the tolls to high occupancy vehicles during peak travel hours.

US-290 has an HOV lane that during certain times of the day allows you to pay a toll to use as a single occupancy vehicle.

 

What you aren't understanding is the part that says "on all other harris county toll road authority facilities"

 

290 is not an HCTRA facility and therefor does not fall under that rule. 
It is free to use it during HOT hours on a motorcycle. End of story. I did it daily for years. Rode right past the metro police doing it...trust me its free.

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*face palm* I knew I should have also posted the FAQ for 290 managed lanes as well.  It is an ordinary HOV lane that you can sometimes pay to use if you aren't HOV.  So you are correct that motorcycles can use it all times.  I thought we were arguing about the Katy toll lanes.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, cspwal said:

*face palm* I knew I should have also posted the FAQ for 290 managed lanes as well.  It is an ordinary HOV lane that you can sometimes pay to use if you aren't HOV.  So you are correct that motorcycles can use it all times.  I thought we were arguing about the Katy toll lanes.

 

 

No worries I'm pretty sure Houston435438765298754 was just trolling/misleading people by making false claims to support his pro toll road bureaucrat agenda. I can see where you got mixed up for sure.

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10 minutes ago, cspwal said:

*face palm* I knew I should have also posted the FAQ for 290 managed lanes as well.  It is an ordinary HOV lane that you can sometimes pay to use if you aren't HOV.  So you are correct that motorcycles can use it all times.  I thought we were arguing about the Katy toll lanes.

 

 

ANyhow I know we've gotten quite off topic but this was my original point that keeps getting disputed.

People asked why I dislike HCTRA and I told them they don't have the best interest of the public in mind.

 

A prime example would be the differing motorcycle policies when you compare HCTRA to METRO.

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1 hour ago, VinnyVincent said:

Okay not sure where you got any of that from but if that's what you think after reading their website I think you may have some serious reading comprehension problems.

 

 but we aren't talking about HOV. We are talking about HOT hours. 290 is not ALWAYS HOV. What are you smoking? I ride past the sign that says "HOT: 5.00" daily.

 

motorcycles are free on 290 during HOV AND HOT hours.

 

They are not free on I-10 during their HOT hours.

 

 

Seems to me like you aren't understanding the info you are reading correctly. 

 

Let me guess; you don't even live in Houston either?

 

The 290 HOV lane is ALWAYS HOV.  Every hour it is open, it is HOV.  The fact that there are a few hours during which it is ALSO HOT, does not change the fact that it is HOV during every hour during which it is open.

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15 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

ANyhow I know we've gotten quite off topic but this was my original point that keeps getting disputed.

People asked why I dislike HCTRA and I told them they don't have the best interest of the public in mind.

 

A prime example would be the differing motorcycle policies when you compare HCTRA to METRO.

 

There is no differing motorcycle policy.  Both have their lanes open and free to motorcycles during every minute of every hour during which the lanes are open and operating as HOV lanes. 

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5 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

There is no differing motorcycle policy.  Both have their lanes open and free to motorcycles during every minute of every hour during which the lanes are open and operating as HOV lanes. 

Let's not waste time arguing over senseless technicalities. effectively, you would have to pay to get on the I-10 managed lanes during certain times on a motorcycle, where you can ride on the 290 lanes anytime they are open.

 

Besides, it does not help your argument since you are now stating that HCTRA does not allow HOV PERIOD during toll hours. That's a lot worse than just cutting out motorcyclists.

I'm sure they argued the HOV point when they were lobbying for the I 10 lanes too then they turn around and pull that BS. What a disgrace.

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28 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Let's not waste time arguing over senseless technicalities. effectively, you would have to pay to get on the I-10 managed lanes during certain times on a motorcycle, where you can ride on the 290 lanes anytime they are open.

 

Besides, it does not help your argument since you are now stating that HCTRA does not allow HOV PERIOD during toll hours. That's a lot worse than just cutting out motorcyclists.

I'm sure they argued the HOV point when they were lobbying for the I 10 lanes too then they turn around and pull that BS. What a disgrace.

 

LOL Senseless technicalities like the fact that the HOV motorcycle policies are exactly the same?  Senseless technicalities like the complete falsity of your statement that HCTRA doesn't "allow motorcycles on for free" when they in fact allow motorcycle on for free under exactly the same terms that Metro does on 290?  Stop posting lies and nonsense.  (Yes, that effectively means you should stop posting.)

 

 

Edited by Houston19514

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12 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

LOL Senseless technicalities like the fact that the HOV motorcycle policies are exactly the same?  Senseless technicalities like the complete falsity of your statement that HCTRA doesn't "allow motorcycles on for free" when they in fact allow motorcycle on for free under exactly the same terms that Metro does on 290?  Stop posting lies and nonsense.  (Yes, that effectively means you should stop posting.)

 

 

Now you sound like a ridiculous child.

 

My original statement was and still is true. You can not ride a motorcycle on the I10 HOV lanes for free during HOT hours. Whether it's in a motorcycle or a multi passenger car.

You CAN ride on the 290 HOV lane during any time it is open, including HOT hours.

It's really simple;  Metro allows motorcycles on for free during HOT hours, HCTRA doesn't. No need to attempt to obscure that fact anymore than you already have. 

 

Stop trying to twist things around to discredit me and suit your bureaucrat troll road agenda. 

Edited by VinnyVincent

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8 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Now you sound like a ridiculous child.

 

My original statement was and still is true. You can not ride a motorcycle on the I10 HOV lanes for free during HOT hours. Whether it's in a motorcycle or a multi passenger car.

You CAN ride on the 290 HOV lane during any time it is open, including HOT hours.

 

Stop trying to twist things around to discredit me and suit your bureaucrat troll road agenda. 

 

Didn't twist anything at all.  Just quoted what you said, which was and is false ( as are so many other things you've said).  And you CAN ride a motorcycle on the I-10 managed lanes during the HOT hours that are also HOV hours, just as you can on 290.  The motorcyles-ride-free policy on both is entirely based on HOV policies.  It has nothing to do with the HOT lane operations on either road.  The fact that the lanes also operate as HOT lanes and the hours in which they so operate is completely irrelevant to the motorcycles-ride-free policy on both systems.  I don't know why you think motorcycles should be entitled to ride free at times when all other vehicles are required to pay.

 

Again, contrary to your original claim (and contrary to your revised claim) motorcycles are treated exactly the same in both systems.  They get to ride free during HOV hours on both systems.  They get to ride free on both systems during HOV/HOT hours.  Period.  They do not ride free on either system during non-HOV hours.  The facts are neither childish nor mere senseless technicalities, but they are stubborn.

 

By the logic of your revised complaint, we'd be somehow better off if HCTRA closed its lanes during non-HOV hours. I doubt even you would actually pretend that is true.

Edited by Houston19514

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6 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Didn't twist anything at all.  Just quoted what you said, which was and is false ( as are so many other things you said).

 

Again, contrary to your original claim (and contrary to your revised claim) motorcycles are treated exactly the same in both systems.  They get to ride free during HOV hours on both systems.  They get to ride free on both systems during HOV/HOT hours.  Period.  They do not ride free on either system during non-HOV hours.  The facts are neither childish nor mere senseless technicalities, but they are stubborn.

 

By the logic of your revised complaint, we'd be somehow better off if HCTRA closed its lanes during non-HOV hours. I doubt even you would actually pretend that is true.

And again,  your entire post has absolutely nothing to do with their policy regarding motorcycles during HOT hours. 

You accuse me of lying when you're the one trying to intentionally mislead and confuse people.

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57 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

Here is some interesting discussion on this topic.

Apparently I'm not in the vast minority as Houston2048327507437 and iron tiger would have you all believe:

 

http://www.twtex.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-29701.html

First off, just because you found some like-minded folks doesn't mean you're right.

 

Second off, you keep jumping between 290 and I-10 so many times my head is literally hurting, as well as constantly shifting between whether you ride during HOV or HOT hours. Are you trying to argue that you should be able to ride on the I-10 managed lanes for free 24/7? Are you trying to argue that you like the 290 lane because vehicles can't pass you? Hell if I know, that also changes.

 

In any case, the center managed lane when METRO stepped in to help out TxDOT with some repairs in exchange for adding a center bus lane, which was indeed built with FTA funds. It was always done with TxDOT with contributions from METRO. When the road was rebuilt, HCTRA contributed to the managed lanes, and METRO got to run buses for free on it because of the original FTA funds. Unlike what "drfood" said on that forum, the overengineered center lanes were NOT done with federal funding, that was all METRO's doing, and that's probably one reason why any additional light rails beyond the 2004 Red Line took so long to come to fruition.

 

http://d2dtl5nnlpfr0r.cloudfront.net/tti.tamu.edu/documents/0-6688-1.pdf

 

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I also would like to mention that "HOT" stands for "High Occupancy Toll".  Since outside of peak hours, the Katy tollway doesn't recognize high occupancy vehicles in the first place, its is confusing to call those "HOT" times.

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35 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

First off, just because you found some like-minded folks doesn't mean you're right.

 

Second off, you keep jumping between 290 and I-10 so many times my head is literally hurting, as well as constantly shifting between whether you ride during HOV or HOT hours. Are you trying to argue that you should be able to ride on the I-10 managed lanes for free 24/7? Are you trying to argue that you like the 290 lane because vehicles can't pass you? Hell if I know, that also changes.

 

I'm only jumping back and forth because of your attempts to derail the thread.

 

The original point was that HCTRA needs to go away because they are more in line with private interests and not the public. A prime example was the fact that METRO runs the 290 HOT lanes and they allow motorcycles on them for free. 

In contrast HCTRA runs the I-10 HOT lanes and you have to pay to use those.

 

I'm not sure why you are confused as to whether I ride my motorcycle during HOV or HOT hours. The answer is both.

I generally ride during HOV hours in the morning(although sometimes I get on the road early so it's still HOT hours.)

and HOT hours in the afternoon(and the opposite can be true in the afternoons. Sometimes I work late so I ride during HOV hours)

 

You've mutated that into some retarded argument over technicalities, when the reality still remains that you cannot ride on a motorcycle for free in the I-10/Katy HOT lane, but you can on the 290 HOT.

 

 

In other words I know a lot more about commuting on the 290 HOV/HOT than you do, so you should hang that one up.

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1 minute ago, cspwal said:

I also would like to mention that "HOT" stands for "High Occupancy Toll".  Since outside of peak hours, the Katy tollway doesn't recognize high occupancy vehicles in the first place, its is confusing to call those "HOT" times.

I'd wager that it is intentionally made confusing to distract people from the facts. Similar to what Houston3408214732 has done in this thread.

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3 minutes ago, VinnyVincent said:

I'm only jumping back and forth because of your attempts to derail the thread.

 

The original point was that HCTRA needs to go away because they are more in line with private interests and not the public. A prime example was the fact that METRO runs the 290 HOT lanes and they allow motorcycles on them for free. 

In contrast HCTRA runs the I-10 HOT lanes and you have to pay to use those.

 

I'm not sure why you are confused as to whether I ride my motorcycle during HOV or HOT hours. The answer is both.

I generally ride during HOV hours in the morning(although sometimes I get on the road early so it's still HOT hours.)

and HOT hours in the afternoon(and the opposite can be true in the afternoons. Sometimes I work late so I ride during HOV hours)

 

You've mutated that into some retarded argument over technicalities, when the reality still remains that you cannot ride on a motorcycle for free in the I-10/Katy HOT lane, but you can on the 290 HOT.

 

 

In other words I know a lot more about commuting on the 290 HOV/HOT than you do, so you should hang that one up.

 

I did not derail the thread, you did, and I can find out where that did happen. In any case, let me get this straight.

 

- You ride your motorcycle for free on METRO's 290 HOV lane during the HOV times. Check. Got it. You do not ride it on the off-hours because it closed on the off-hours.

- You ride your motorcycle for free on HCTRA's Katy Managed Lanes during the HOV times. Check. Got it. You want to ride it on the off-hours but it has a toll, making it "invalid" somehow.

 

Along these lines, you've dragged a variety of issues into this, like how "HCTRA doesn't care about motorcyclists" or something along those lines. Based on everything you've said about the KML and the Beltway, I think the conclusion is because you ride a motorcycle, that you're entitled to ride free wherever, whenever.

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