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2112

Dallas "leisure " Packages

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I am sure you love this quote:

"The average Dallas citizen in the suburbs doesn't have a good idea of what is going on in downtown Dallas. "

Looks like there are i610 snobs in Big-D, too!

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What I find funny is the term "LoMac"! Is that the low cal Mac & Cheese eaten by mid-west transplants?

And Deep Ellum is walkable? More like run-for-your-lifeable.

(duh, I know it's lower McKinney, but please)

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What I find funny is the term "LoMac"!  Is that the low cal Mac & Cheese eaten by mid-west transplants?

And Deep Ellum is walkable?  More like run-for-your-lifeable. 

(duh, I know it's lower McKinney, but please)

LoMac?

Pardon me while I hurl my foie gras.

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And Deep Ellum is walkable? More like run-for-your-lifeable.

I shouldn't laugh at that but I can't help it.

As for the pass... hey, it's not a bad idea. What could it hurt?

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"As for the pass... hey, it's not a bad idea. What could it hurt?"

Well, Hizzy, that really depends on whether you decide to walk the walkable Deep Ellum.

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"Uh, oh! Now you've done it! You're in Deep Ellum now, Mister!"

I didnt feel unsafe in deep elum when I was there this past month to be honest with you. I did feel unsafe under the freeway parking areas - there was evidence of car break-ins. But then again that happens here too in any place that has little people walking around and at night. So not much difference in safety I would guess.

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But back to the weekend getaways, I guess what I really enjoyed was their smugness in assuming Houston is so void of nightlife and culture that we should be included in their initial marketing strategy, along with Midland for crying out loud

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LoMac?

Pardon me while I hurl my foie gras.

Well, I respect the guy who came up with that. I just wish non of us would do any of that, including whatever Houstonian who came up with NoDo (North Downtown), which of course no one ever refers to. I hate that term. L.A. did it also, Seatle did it with SoDo, and so did Austin with SoCo (South Congress). Enough with the copying of NY terms allready, it makes all of us look like, well, copy cats. None of us are New York. Yet New York is not any of us either, and we should trumpet what is real about us. Nothing works as well as organically grown terms that have meaning through history, like The Montrose, or Deep Elum, WestU, The Rice Village. All of those are real and wholesome, and they don't smell of copy cats.

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Well, I respect the guy who came up with that.  I just wish non of us would do any of that, including whatever Houstonian who came up with NoDo (North Downtown), which of course no one ever refers to.  I hate that term.  L.A. did it also, Seatle did it with SoDo, and so did Austin with SoCo (South Congress).  Enough with the copying of NY terms allready, it makes all of us look like, well, copy cats.  None of us are New York.  Yet New York is not any of us either, and we should trumpet what is real about us.  Nothing works as well as organically grown terms that have meaning through history, like The Montrose, or Deep Elum, WestU, The Rice Village.  All of those are real and wholesome, and they don't smell of copy cats.

That's a damn fine point, 2112, and I couldn't agree more. Lame NY inspired nicknames are just that...lame. They have no history behind them, and are no better than the faux "town centers" surrounded by parking lots that someone referred to on another post.

How could a SoHo knockoff ever compete with Deep Ellum, which came into existence when the old blues men described Elm Street in their southern soulful dialect? Or, Offats Bayou, named for the poor, uneducated men who would ask the train conductor to drop them "off ats the bayou" in Galveston? Or Lower Westheimer, as opposed to upper Westheimer, home of Uptown (one of the few recently coined terms to stick)? Or any of our wards, 1st through 6th, or West End or Rice Military? The names work because they represent thepast history of the area.

Hipsters, constantly in search of the new "in" thing, try to hip up a place with a new urban name. I can think of nothing less hip than that.

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It's hip to be square.

Report: Trying to be hip is losing its appeal

"The whole point of being hip in the pure sense of the word is to essentially be

oblivious to it," says pop culture observer Robert Thompson. "Now the only thing you can describe a hipster as being is a 'hipster' in quotation marks. Almost by definition a hipster is a wannabe." (Los Angeles Times)

http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcas...ip20jul20.story

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um... yeah... i lived in dallas for a long... long time and served on the Uptown Association board... no one, and i do mean NO ONE calls that area LoMac.

kinda makes me chuckle thinking about those people who live in sherman/denison/durant and call it Far North Dallas..... lmao

Trollygirl needs to get back on the short bus.

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"Trollygirl needs to get back on the short bus." :lol:

Chances are, she lives in 'Far North Dallas' and was trying to sound (tragically) 'hip'.

At any rate, these weekend getaway promotions are not unusual. And marketing to Houston is not a slap either, even if the quote was insulting. Houston's CVB markets Houston weekend getaways to Dallas, and has ever since downtown was redone. It is merely an attempt to fill up hotel rooms on slow weekends, and short trips are easier to plan. Galveston markets Houston and Dallas as well.

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From what I understand, TG lives pretty much in the core of Dallas-- or at least inside their "loop" (Loop 12). But I submit you can't always take comments from people from rival cities too seriously, lest you miss when they might be joking around.

2112,

You're NOT hip, dude. You're old. :lol:

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"But I submit you can't always take comments from people from rival cities too seriously, lest you miss when they might be joking around."

Good point. If she was joking, I stand corrected. If she was not, well..... B)

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I am about due for a trip to Bill's Records and Tapes in Richardson.

And it's nowher near LoMac!

Oh, the humanity!

Bet she rides a scooter, too.

vespa_h1.jpg

FYI - these are not "Houston" scooter chicks I was talking about in another post.

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2112,

You're NOT hip, dude. You're old.  :lol:

Why you little youngster whipersnapper you...just wait until I show up at your party not wearing any PANTS!

oh...did I say that out loud?

:unsure:

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I dont think I could ever bring myself to setting foot in that city.

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I am about due for a trip to Bill's Records and Tapes in Richardson.

And it's nowher near LoMac!

Oh, the humanity! 

Bet she rides a scooter, too.

vespa_h1.jpg

FYI - these are not "Houston" scooter chicks I was talking about in another post.

Yeah, ours don't even look that good. :lol:

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Of course not. You can't even bring yourself to step foot in The Woodlands, Greenspoint or Sugar Land. Dallas is quite a long ways from DT Houston.

:lol:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

HAHAHAHAHHAHA

HAHAHHAA

HAHA

HAAAAAAA HA HA

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

HAha

hahaha

ha

aha

ooooooo

ha

hmmmm

ahemm.

:unsure:

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Dallas' downtown is really dead. Even on business days. Yawn. At least Dallas has a good train system already. We are still working on our train system. But our downtown is a couple of decades ahead of Dallas' downtown. :rolleyes:

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Dallas' downtown is really dead. Even on business days. Yawn. At least Dallas has a good train system already. We are still working on our train system. But our downtown is a couple of decades ahead of Dallas' downtown. :rolleyes:

Dallas' Downtown is absolutely BOOMING! Thousands of new residences live in recently converted skyscrapers with over 10,000 more under construction is coupled with an equally prolific explosion of ultra-chic restaurants and glamourous night clubs and supper clubs. Not mention luxury hotels and the private Penthouse Clubs atop many of the spires of downtown. There is now only two blocks of dead space between Deep Ellum and Downtown and three blocks between Downtown and the West End. Many new developments will quickly remove that.

Additionally, as the covering of Woodall Rodgers Freeway with the fabulous and glamorous SKY GARDENS OF THE ARTS DISTRICT is completed, the ultra-chic UPTOWN area will spill into Downtown and Dallas will have a spectacularly active and dense city life.

The Glamour, The Arts, The culinary delights, the sophisticated night life, the booming businesses, the concert and sporting venues, the private clubs, the ultra luxe hotel and residential, the spectacular architecture...Dallas has it all!

dallasskyline10009kl.jpg

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You should get a job with the Convention and Visitors Bureau, Rosewood. Outright fabrications such as yours, shouldn't be wasted on a forum like this that knows better. It should be put to use faking out tourists, who won't know it's a lie until they're standing in the middle of downtown Dallas, staring at a mugger, wondering where the "BOOMING" nightlife is.

"Ultra-chic restaurants"? "Glamorous nightclubs"? Where? In the West End Marketplace? :lol:

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Personally, I'm just glad the cityfeels of Dallas and Houston have begun to develop more independently. What will really make these weekend get-a-ways pleasurable for travelers and profitable for service providers is increasing developmental differences.

By the end of this decade, a weekend visit to Dallas without a car will have crossed the marketing threshold from concept to reality as DART trains connect key downtown neighborhood. It will have taken 25 years to complete, but DART is on the verge of taking it's second step toward significantly improving quality of life in urban Dallas.

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You should get a job with the Convention and Visitors Bureau, Rosewood. Outright fabrications such as yours, shouldn't be wasted on a forum like this that knows better. It should be put to use faking out tourists, who won't know it's a lie until they're standing in the middle of downtown Dallas, staring at a mugger, wondering where the "BOOMING" nightlife is.

"Ultra-chic restaurants"? "Glamorous nightclubs"? Where? In the West End Marketplace? :lol:

Redscare, not going to say downtown Dallas is BOOMING, cuz its not like the Miracle Mile in Chicago, or Union Square in NY or even close to Times Square. Now you do have to be informed of some major mile stones for downtown Dallas. What we are seeing are the Main Street Tax Incentives for retailers and restuarants taking hold. West End is experencing a decline due in loss of business because NHL not playing and other factors. Some new possible leases are on the horizon as residential continues to move in. I will not try to compare to Houston, because I am not there and don't know the "in's and out's" of what all is going on. However, to say Downtown Dallas is dead is off the mark. Going down Main Street you will come to a crawl as a line waits for people to get cars valeted, people going from one place to the next.

Some businesses are moving around such as "Dick's last Resort" to take advantage of securing a better location in response to new development coming online like Victory. With some 2,200 residential units downtown currently has some 90 percent occupancy (Dallas Morning News) with that figure being low because of some just opened properties. What is currently opened is only a tip of the iceberg of what's to come. Here is a list of things currently going on in DT Dallas off the top of my head (as I get ready to go to the gym), and I know there is more.

Fuse - new chic Tex-Asian cuisine in Dallas Power & Light, (the party scene is not stopping)

Neiman's - is now experiencing a much stronger market then it has in the past ten years (asked a senior staff member in the store first hand)

THe Incubator - in the Wilson across from Neiman's - place where fashion new comers sell their new merchandise before hitting big in the fashion industry

O-Bar - between the Iron Cactus and Neiman's where it is packed every Thursday - Saturday night with "pretty people" and over priced drinks

Crimson - next door to Fuse off of Commerce - a boutique shop for women's clothes and now men's clothes

Kul Design - modern furnishings, art gallery in the basement, and other misc items for the home in the Davis building

Swirl - Davis Building where you can make your own wine

Ten Sports bar on Main across from the Davis

Press Box Grill - sports bar in the Wilson

The Metropolitan Steak House- in Stone Streets across from Iron Cactus which now features a small live theater on the second story

Pegasus Plaza has continous concert events throughout the spring/summer/fall for sporting events or just to attract people to downtown

Joe S. Bank - I think is the name of it - a men's suit shop that has signed a new lease on main will be opening in the coming year

Jeroboam - in the Kirby building featuring french cuisine - was one of the first "chic" resturants to return downtown that is still going strong

Iron Cactus - 3 story restuarnt on main off of Pegasus Plaza that has a tex-mex cuisine and mulitple bars

Urban Market - new grocery store/bar/restuarant in the revitalized Interurban building with apartments above

Davis building - opened and leased up. A 20 something story building formerly where the Dallas Times was based

Dallas Power & Light - just opened and leaseing VERY quickly. Pair of Art Deco towers converted to apartments

Interurban - still underconstruction / opened. All apts opened are occupied

Kirby Building - 18 story building with Jeraboam at the base. Maintains a 98 percent occupancy for almost 10 yrs now

SoCo Lofts - apartments in a converted warehouse (10 stories I think). Started to convert apts to condors. Maintains at least a 95 percent occupancy

1001 Ross - dont have much to say about this (not a fan of it) Its in the West End and about 50 percent occupied. It opened this past spring.

1505 Elm - Condo building on the Dart Line. Only has 5 units left in a formerly 20 story office building

Can not remember the name but a new 4 story development with a restuarant, bar, banquet rooms, and roof top bar is about to open on Main a block down from the Davis buildng

Joule Urban Resort - adjacent to Iron Cactus is under construction. A boutique hotel / Day spa across from Stone Streets

The Metropolitan (condo tower) sold out and under construction at this time

The Mercantile will start construction late winter early next year. Will add some 800 new apts

Republic Center off of Thanksgiving Square - starting demolition for a conversion to residents - some 400 new apartments

Mosaic - Formerly Fidelity Union Bankers building - starting demolition for a conversion to residents - some 500 new apartments

Purse buidling - just announced yesterday - 70 new units, don't know if they will be for purchase or lease. This is on the edge of the west end off of Elm Street. Conversion of old 6 story warehouse

Camden's Farmer's Market - Just opened a second phase and according to a publication from the Real State insiders here, 900 new units are about to start construction soon.

A Canadian Developer announced plans to convert an office building near city Hall to apts with the addition of another new building (waiting to hear if it will be office, residential, or hotel)

JPI has bought Fram's (who developed 1001 Ross) site in the West End on the Dart Rail behind Sonny Bryant's. This will be an addtional 200 units.

This list is centered around whats going on in and around Main Street does not include the Arts District or Victory. Anyone that knows the struggles downtown Dallas has had since the collapse in the 1980's can not deny this list alone is impressive.

Edited by slfunk

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funk, that was pretty much my point. If the poster had said downtown is showing signs of recovery, or signs of growth, that would be one thing. But, BOOMING is an outright fabrication. Remember, we are talking Downtown, here. Even hard-core Dallasites admit downtown is lame. (BTW, West End didn't die when the NHL went on strike. It died in the early 90s, when the gansters started robbing patrons in the parking lots.)

You listed over 3,000 housing units proposed for downtown. As we all know in Houston, when the rebar comes out of the ground, you can count it. Until then, it's just another big-mouthed developer trying to impress his friends. And, half a dozen bars and restaurants in a district the size of downtown Dallas qualifies as a cemetary.

Uptown is rocking...apparently at the expense of other areas...but, hopefully, that energy will spill into downtown. But, to say downtown is even off of life support right now is pushing it.

BTW, yes, I've been there...recently.

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Funk.....LOL... I haven't heard that since my frat days. I was just responding to the Dead comment. Because it is neither dead nor booming. It is in transition with far more activity then just 5 yrs ago, and there is some exciting stuff coming on board. If it was 5 yrs ago, I'd give you that. On that list the only thing I would count as speculative would be the Canadian firm. I know what you mean about "until the rebar comes out of the ground." I feel that way even after the ground breaking. Azure had me skeptical because is took almost 4 or more months for them to start moving dirt after their "groundbreaking." These other developers going after the projects already have proven themselves to be serious. Like the one who just purchased the Purse building. That is the same developer who has developed the Interurban where the "Urban Market" is. He is building on his success. Knowing how the TIF works, the others are already been granted approval. Their are costly penalities for them not meeting their expected delivery dates, and backing out of the project. With the exception of the Canadian firm these developments have passed for TIF. The TIF causes them to be married to the project until it is ultimately developed ensuring the city that property will not stay vacant. Applying for TIF is optional but almost all of these developers are heading down that path for the CBD. According a statement from city hall and downtown development organizations.. to date since 1996 around 800,000,000 in private dollars has been spent or is currently under construction. 1996 being the year council seriously started looking at ways to regenify downtown. You may not see this in the way of cranes because much of it is rehabing vacant towers. And no its not the same dollar amount as Houston put in getting things together for their redevelopment program and the Super Bowl.

Uptown is different becuase the TIF district has expired and there is nothing binding the developer to that property.

Edited by slfunk

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Do you know the actual over under of construction/renovation of Uptown vs downtown? I bet you don't, and I bet you'd be surprised. Renovations are simply not as visible, but those actually happening right now are huge in unit numbers. You probably didn't know there are two high rises under construction right now in downtown, with many in various pre-construction stages. Bet you don't know of the parks plan that's already started with construction.

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Do you know the actual over under of construction/renovation of Uptown vs downtown? I bet you don't, and I bet you'd be surprised. Renovations are simply not as visible, but those actually happening right now are huge in unit numbers. You probably didn't know there are two high rises under construction right now in downtown, with many in various pre-construction stages. Bet you don't know of the parks plan that's already started with construction.

Is that directed towards me? I wouldn't know the ratio, but sure its not hard to figure out.

Edited by slfunk

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Hope I didn't cause any bad frat flashbacks with the Funk comment. :lol:

Rant's comment was probably a response to me. And, I'm not trying to start a war, or a comparison. We've had enough of those. I was, however, pointing out the ridiculousness of Rosewood's remarks. Clearly, downtown is getting off the mat. With the 25% vacancies of the late 90s and early 00s, that isn't hard to do.

I hope the proposals come to fruition. There is too much activity near downtown for downtown not to gain some benefit from it.

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I have said it many times and will say it again. I really like the way Dallas has pushed hard for development in the areas around downtown as well as around DART stations;. It has actually pushed real demand into/towards the adjacent CBD as Uptown prices swell and land grows scarce, especially the Arts District. As East Dallas and the Cedars continue to grow the way Uptown did early on, I wonder if the same effect will happen to their adjacent CBD areas. It would have been cool if these efforts were put into the CBD first, but wow is a large swath of urbanity being taken care of very quickly. The DART station development is simply a bonus of infill and functionality. I would prefer not to need any revitalization, but I do like the way in which things are happening. We say it all the time, but wow will things be nice, not just for downtown, but for intown Dallas as a whole in less than 10 years. That can't be denied whether you like Dallas or not.

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Houstonites: Let's calm down, people. Everyone's stripes are showing. There's nothing wrong with a little booserism, so there's no need to jump down people's throat. It just makes Houston look insecure.

Dallasites: Since people on HAIF are a skeptical bunch, it helps a lot to have hard numbers to back up your assertions. Those numbers should be accompanied by sources and a link whenever possible. I'm sorry this is necessary, but it's the reality around here.

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We're Houstonians, thank you very much.

And, I'd be willing to bet that the three posters involved in this discussion would be unanimous in their confusion as to what you are talking about. Reread the posts. I doubt you'll find the venom you accuse us of, except for slfunk and I calling out Rosewood on his/her statement.

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Houstonites: Let's calm down, people. Everyone's stripes are showing. There's nothing wrong with a little booserism, so there's no need to jump down people's throat. It just makes Houston look insecure.

Dallasites: Since people on HAIF are a skeptical bunch, it helps a lot to have hard numbers to back up your assertions. Those numbers should be accompanied by sources and a link whenever possible. I'm sorry this is necessary, but it's the reality around here.

I agree with everything you said. In defense of the Houston guys, many in our state have seen such booms at various levels, that anything less than stunning is just "ho hum." By the time everyone agrees you're having a boom then it will probably be over. ;)

Jason

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As a Dallasite, I read HAIF to learn about what's happening in Houston. I think it really adds color to the developer press releases published in the trade/business journala. I would think that the Houstonians, on HAIF, would want to use the Dallas topic treads to discuss projects and get that same kind of insight. However, every time information is presented on in the Dallas topic thread, it is met with hostile skeptism and the thread denegrates in to a Dallas bashing. I really try not to read this secition of HAIF because useless negative banter with virtually not substantive information.

I really wonder why the moderators allow the Dallas topic to remain on HAIF given the fact that a free flow of information and ideas is impossible. I also question why Rosewood is allowed to continue his inflamitory schtick on the board. Unless moderators view his presence as a useful tool to continue this topic's tradition of Dallas-bashing.

Edited by WestTexan

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As a Dallasite, I read HAIF to learn about what's happening in Houston. I think it really adds color to the developer press releases published in the trade/business journala. I would think that the Houstonians, on HAIF, would want to use the Dallas topic treads to discuss projects and get that same kind of insight. However, every time information is presented on in the Dallas topic thread, it is met with hostile skeptism and the thread denegrates in to a Dallas bashing. I really try not to read this secition of HAIF because useless negative banter with virtually not substantive information.

I really wonder why the moderators allow the Dallas topic to remain on HAIF given the fact that a free flow of information and ideas is impossible. I also question why Rosewood is allowed to continue his inflamitory schtick on the board. Unless moderators view his presence as a useful tool to continue this topic's tradition of Dallas-bashing.

Houston/Dallas bashing is an honor passed down from our great founders, and we should honor thier memory by carrying on the torch they so thoughtfully handed down to us. As long as the topics don't get personal, I see no problem with the enthusiasm and rigor we each give to defend our city agains the other, in either direction. Let the games continue.

Dallas' Downtown is absolutely BOOMING! Thousands of new residences live in recently converted skyscrapers with over 10,000 more under construction is coupled with an equally prolific explosion of ultra-chic restaurants and glamourous night clubs and supper clubs. Not mention luxury hotels and the private Penthouse Clubs atop many of the spires of downtown. There is now only two blocks of dead space between Deep Ellum and Downtown and three blocks between Downtown and the West End. Many new developments will quickly remove that.

Additionally, as the covering of Woodall Rodgers Freeway with the fabulous and glamorous SKY GARDENS OF THE ARTS DISTRICT is completed, the ultra-chic UPTOWN area will spill into Downtown and Dallas will have a spectacularly active and dense city life.

The Glamour, The Arts, The culinary delights, the sophisticated night life, the booming businesses, the concert and sporting venues, the private clubs, the ultra luxe hotel and residential, the spectacular architecture...Dallas has it all!

dallasskyline10009kl.jpg

Incase anyone is interested, these phrases appeared on this here post:

The Glamour

The culinary delights

The sophisticated night life

The private clubs

The spectacular architecture

The spectaculalarly active city life

The fabulous and glamorous

luxury hotels and the private Penthouse Clubs

The ultra-chick uptown

The equally prolific explosion of ultra-chic restaurants

The ultra-chic restaurants

glamourous night clubs and supper clubs

And you wonder, why on this God's Earth, are Houstonians so quick to speak thier minds about Dallas? No one likes uppity people contantly remind everyone else how beautiful they are. It's as simple as that.

Edited by 2112

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