BryanS Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 First, the watch list, the no-fly list, the could-be terrorist list... all the lists... if your name is on ANY of these - you don't get to board an airplane. Period. Second, the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber - total amateurs. We should do nothing different when these incidents happen (amateur hour). We over react, put in place even more ineffective security measures. Third, the amount of screening that is done by TSA is ridiculous, worthless, and really no more effective than before TSA was formed. The number of toe nail clippers, scissors, full tubes of toothpaste, and PertPlus+ shampoo needlessly discarded is criminal. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS), TSA - total waste. It is dehumanizing to put the once-proud Coast Guard under the DHS. What? And finally... not even full body "Total Recall" scanners would have caught the underwear bomber. He shaped the explosive element into a phallic form and put in his crotch. I don't know about you, but even when I've been patted down, rarely do the TSA agents go in for the squeeze - in that area. Whether they felt it - or saw it on x-ray - their only reaction would have been: lucky man. Basically, if they're going to get us, they will find a way. In the mean time, we're wasting millions/billions of dollars on ineffective screening and just adding to needless delays at the airport.... Airports used to be happy/sad places. When people could escort their children and loved ones onto a boarding plane. Or wait for them - right at the jet way. Those moments were truly touching. Sad, tearful good-byes; jubilant re-unions. Sometimes, I would cry. And I didn't even know those people. But no more. The whole mile long security line, take your shoes off routine, put everything in the bin - BUT NOT YOUR TICKET - kinda kills that atmosphere. I miss the old days. Daniel is travelling tonight on a plane I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain Oh and I can see Daniel waving goodbye God it looks like Daniel, must be the clouds in my eyes They say Spain is pretty though I've never been Well Daniel says it's the best place that he's ever seen Oh and he should know, he's been there enough Lord I miss Daniel, oh I miss him so much Daniel my brother you are older than me Do you still feel the pain of the scars that won't heal Your eyes have died but you see more than I Daniel you're a star in the face of the sky Daniel is travelling tonight on a plane I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain Oh and I can see Daniel waving goodbye God it looks like Daniel, must be the clouds in my eyes Oh God it looks like Daniel, must be the clouds in my eyes So sad. EDIT: The only effective screening is what Israel does. The underwear bomber idiot would have not even thought about even trying to board an El Al flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Geezus... I'm never being an asshat to another HAIFer ever again....... ( Okay, Not true.. but still. Freaky. ) http://www.cnn.com/2...line/index.html This guy's "Welcome Drink" should have been some Jim Jones Kool-Aid !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Judah Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I was watching Fox News at the car repair shop yesterday:-- according to Karl Rove, implementing the air-puff technology (where you walk through a thing that looks like a metal detector but which shoots puffs of air) would have stopped the bomber. This technology exists but is expensive.-- the guy tried to get on the plane in the Netherlands without a passport, according to a witness who is also a lawyer and blogger. The bomber was there with an older Indian man. The Indian man said "He's from Sudan, we do this all the time." When the person at the desk refused, they asked to speak to a manager. This means either the manager gave in and let the bomber on in the name of good customer service, or the bomber eventually produced a passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 -- the guy tried to get on the plane in the Netherlands without a passport, according to a witness who is also a lawyer and blogger. The bomber was there with an older Indian man. The Indian man said "He's from Sudan, we do this all the time." When the person at the desk refused, they asked to speak to a manager. This means either the manager gave in and let the bomber on in the name of good customer service, or the bomber eventually produced a passport.That's the problem. Our government can do as much as they want with TSA screeners on US soil... but this was a breakdown at another country's airport. Those screeners are non americans. I remember flying into the US from Belize and being amazed at how little their security officials screened us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 That's the problem. Our government can do as much as they want with TSA screeners on US soil... but this was a breakdown at another country's airport. Those screeners are non americans. I remember flying into the US from Belize and being amazed at how little their security officials screened us.Considering for years the big issue for airport security was drug importation, our systems were in place to combat that, not potential terrorists. With drugs, it's better to let the perpetrator get onto US soil where he/she can be caught at customs (and tried in America). Obviously, with a terrorist, it's better to stop the problem before it gets on the plane.We're dealing with a totally different animal than the one we're equipped to contend with, but we're still using the same antiquated protocols to counteract it. There needs to be an international effort to deal with this, not more half-measures to give us all warm fuzzies about our safety. I know this scares some NWO nuts and UN haters, but there needs to be an international body that establishes and implements a universally codified set of regulations to ensure security continuity around the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanS Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I was watching Fox News at the car repair shop yesterday:-- according to Karl Rove, implementing the air-puff technology (where you walk through a thing that looks like a metal detector but which shoots puffs of air) would have stopped the bomber. This technology exists but is expensive.-- the guy tried to get on the plane in the Netherlands without a passport, according to a witness who is also a lawyer and blogger. The bomber was there with an older Indian man. The Indian man said "He's from Sudan, we do this all the time." When the person at the desk refused, they asked to speak to a manager. This means either the manager gave in and let the bomber on in the name of good customer service, or the bomber eventually produced a passport.Does that assume that the explosive has to be outside the body? I can just see the looks on their faces: "Captain, we got a positive result on this one. We've stripped him down naked, but can't find anything! ... wait a minute... OOhhhh... we get it now."You're only as strong as your weakest link. I've flown out of CDG back to the US two or three times now. Didn't have to take off my shoes. Or any of the other silliness. What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 You're only as strong as your weakest link. The problem with screening technology is that it cannot keep up with the human propensity to find new ways to blow each other up. We're spending trillions to get beat by cavemen with IEDs in the desert. I think the single weakest link is lack of coordination among intelligence agencies, both ours and foreign. Ideally there would be just one 'list', and it would be international. But there again, intelligence is often faulty and worse, corruptible. Maybe some meaningful changes in the intelligence agency structure will come about because of this.(putting it all under "homeland security' and considering that meaningful: fail) An old Army BF of mine used to work on a lot of joint task force stuff with the DoD/ DEA and CIA, and he always complained that nothing got done because they were all more interested in a pissing match over jurisdiction than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 We're spending trillions to get beat by cavemen with IEDs in the desert. According to this article (from which I extrapolate a bit), the economies of the developed world are no longer sustainable without some serious retooling anyhow. Soon we won't have the trillions to spend to keep up with the cavemen anymore. Once we've reached this inevitable economic parity, we'll all be in caves and they'll have no more airplanes to blow up. Everybody wins... er, loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Obviously every airline passenger needs to be strip searched with a full body cavity probe.  This should probably apply to all Metro passengers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Obviously every airline passenger needs to be strip searched with a full body cavity probe. This should probably apply to all Metro passengers as well. NBC nightly news just showed that this scanner can now submit images that are less personal; basically just showing the outline of a body...so it seems the privacy issue is becoming a less valid argument, if one at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Judah Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Does that assume that the explosive has to be outside the body? I can just see the looks on their faces: "Captain, we got a positive result on this one. We've stripped him down naked, but can't find anything! ... wait a minute... OOhhhh... we get it now."Hrm, good question. I don't know. I was under the impression that a lot of these techniques rely on the explosives being outside the body. Maybe it's possible to use a combination of detection techniques? Air puffs plus bomb sniffing dogs as you exit the air-puff bomb detector area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 NBC said they don't use the air puffs anymore because they worked well in the labs, but not in real life b/c it mixed whatevers in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Surely someone is near to perfecting homemade injestable explosives, right? If drug mules are willing to swallow balloons filled with uncut heroin for a little cash, committed jihadists will swallow worse for their God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Judah Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 At that point I don't think it would even be worth it for the terrorists. They might as well use easier methods on easier non-airport targets. Also, I don't think the R&D abilities of 20-30 guys in Yemen can compare to the extensive R&D abilities of the drug cartels. Not that it matters -- remember, the terrorists' biggest success to date did not utilize any bombs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 At that point I don't think it would even be worth it for the terrorists. They might as well use easier methods on easier non-airport targets. Also, I don't think the R&D abilities of 20-30 guys in Yemen can compare to the extensive R&D abilities of the drug cartels. Not that it matters -- remember, the terrorists' biggest success to date did not utilize any bombs at all.The Yemenis are the Polaks of the Arab world. I guess our intelligence departments didn't find anything they do to be too serious ever since the CIA realized the best way to stop a Yemeni horse mounted attack was to turn off the merry-go-round. They can't get to us by water either after they installed screen doors on all their submarines. I hear they bought some septic tanks, but we don't have to worry about an invasion till they learn how to drive them. Did you hear about last week's big Yemeni tragedy? Apparently the power went off across the entire country and people were stuck on escalators for hours and hours.You just know this Nigerian kid was trained by Yemenis because he obviously wasn't successful. I say, let's not worry about any intelligence out of Yemen (aside from the fact there's no intelligence to come out of Yemen) as any Yemen suicide mission will be about as successful as a WWII Japanese kamikaze pilot who's been on 35 flights.You know how to keep a Yemeni in suspense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanS Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 NBC nightly news just showed that this scanner can now submit images that are less personal; basically just showing the outline of a body...so it seems the privacy issue is becoming a less valid argument, if one at all.That's the problem. It's not the nakedness. It's the shape. People wear clothes to hide - or showoff - their shape. That is still a private matter, for those who can't show it off. Being able to hide what you really look like under clothing. And like I said, unless that scanner can also perform virtual colonoscopies, we're still vulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 That's the problem. It's not the nakedness. It's the shape. People wear clothes to hide - or showoff - their shape. That is still a private matter, for those who can't show it off. Being able to hide what you really look like under clothing. And like I said, unless that scanner can also perform virtual colonoscopies, we're still vulnerable.Agreed. The scanner is worthless and a waste of money. They will just put it inside and go to the bathroom. http://www.strategyp...talcavities.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 That's the problem. It's not the nakedness. It's the shape. People wear clothes to hide - or showoff - their shape. That is still a private matter, for those who can't show it off. Being able to hide what you really look like under clothing. And like I said, unless that scanner can also perform virtual colonoscopies, we're still vulnerable. I will not be writing a novel anytime soon as a result of my poor ability to describe something. They finally have last nights video on their website. Here is a screen shot of what I was talking about. Really, we have no excuse now. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp/34635900%2334635900 As the video says, they're becoming mandatory in other countries and coming soon to a US airport near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 I will not be writing a novel anytime soon as a result of my poor ability to describe something. They finally have last nights video on their website. Here is a screen shot of what I was talking about. Really, we have no excuse now.http://www.msnbc.msn...5900%2334635900As the video says, they're becoming mandatory in other countries and coming soon to a US airport near you.If it can't detect genitals, then how can it be trusted to detect a gun of the non-fleshy variety?Seriously... it can detect a belly button but not a nipple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanS Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I will not be writing a novel anytime soon as a result of my poor ability to describe something. They finally have last nights video on their website. Here is a screen shot of what I was talking about. Really, we have no excuse now.Looking at that image, it does not appear to be peering deep enough into the colorectal region of the body. People have hidden all kinds of things up there. Large amounts of cocaine and other illicit drugs, prison inmates sneaking cell phones into their jail cells (they probably put it on vibrate), etc, etc. If we're not willing to go to that level of invasive screening, we're wasting our time and money. A lot of time and a lot of money.The highest return on investment in terms counter-measure effectiveness, and really the only ones we need, are: metal detectors, reinforced bullet-proof cockpit doors on aircraft, scanning of luggage for bomb/explosive residue, and banning travel if your name is on any government bad list(s).Taking your shoes off, forbidding tubes of toothpaste, keeping non-ticketed passengers out of the terminal, the entire TSA, the entire DHS, etc - all that is nothing but a huge waste, offering the least return on counter-measure effectiveness. This latest case is proof enough: the guy smuggled on-board the same stuff as the shoe bomber guy. We've added more and more screening and idiotic rules - yet it got us nothing. Zip. Spent millions, yet we got a $0 return. What a waste.The only next effective screening technique, if we must add more, would be Israeli-style pre-flight interrogations coupled with full body cavity searches. No advanced technology needed, nor required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Looking at that image, it does not appear to be peering deep enough into the colorectal region of the body. People have hidden all kinds of things up there. Large amounts of cocaine and other illicit drugs, prison inmates sneaking cell phones into their jail cells (they probably put it on vibrate), etc, etc. If we're not willing to go to that level of invasive screening, we're wasting our time and money. A lot of time and a lot of money.Exactly. People need to read the link I posted earlier. They have already hidden a bomb in the colon: The concealment of Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) in rectal cavitiesExcerpt:On 27 August 2009, at about 23:30 hours (local time), in Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) a suicide bomber tried to assassinate the Assistant Interior Minister of Saudi Arabia, Prince Muhammad bin Nayef. Muhammad, who is also the son of the country's Interior Minister, was lightly injured in the attack. According to several media worldwide, the suicide bomber had hidden the improvised explosive device (IED) in his rectum and activated it once close to the Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Keeping with the Yemeni bashing and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 I've got a baby, so yeah, I'm at home tonight instead of on the road with all the drunk-driving amateurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Why are you posting all the silly pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Why are you posting all the silly pictures?Levity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 14 idiots kill themselves when their bombs blow up early.What do you bet they're from Yemen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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