Blackberries Are Going to Kill Us

[BryanS]

I just recently earned the privilege at work of being provided a BlackBerry. I was hoping that it would be a few more years before I was forced into that situation, but not my luck.

In the past month of using this thing... I have noticed a distinct buzzing/interference "noise" that the blackberry can impose on other, nearby electronics...

The AM radio in my hotel, where I had to stay recently. I turned up the volume on the radio (so I could hear the alarm go off in the morning) - but the BB was chirping, buzzing through the radio. I can't tell how many times I woke in the middle of the night: What the hell was that?! I finally figured it out... and then began putting the pieces together...

The telecon system at work. Six months ago, I thought we just had a crappy telecon system. Now I am finding out, that there was nothing wrong with the telecon system - just the BB's in the room was again, "broadcasting" that spooky BB interference noise.

Another sensitive telecommunication system at work, that I can

[musicman]

i've heard it in friends' car radios too. i agree it is quite a nuisance during telecons!!

[Texas Wahoo]

My cell phone (normal LG flip-phone) causes speakers to have static when it's about to ring. Haven't noticed anything like it with my blackberry, but then again, my blackberry is for email/internet - not phone service.

[20thStDad]

My blackberry makes the regular phone or any other speakers go nuts when it is getting/sending info. Annoying. I have to toss it at least 8 feet away if I'm on a conference call. But at least when I'm driving I don't have to look at the thing to know when I get an email. I guess. Don't usually care at that point.

[memebag]

I've had cell phones that would interfere with speakers as they were receiving calls, but my Blackberry never does. I think some may have better shielding than others. The FCC probably gets the ones with the best shielding.

[TJones]

My cell phone (normal LG flip-phone) causes speakers to have static when it's about to ring. Haven't noticed anything like it with my blackberry, but then again, my blackberry is for email/internet - not phone service.

It happens with my Blackberry, computer speakers mostly. You get that warning, d-d-d.....d-d-d, then the phone rings.

[TheNiche]

I only notice it on car speakers if I'm riding in an older car. And only on computer speakers if they're crappy speakers.

[houstonmacbro]

I read a recent report about all these electronic phones and brain tumors. Seems like that study is rearing its head again.

Let me ask, is using a headset (Bluetooth) any better? Does it reduce those signals piped into your brain or is just another frequency?

[TJones]

I read a recent report about all these electronic phones and brain tumors. Seems like that study is rearing its head again.

Let me ask, is using a headset (Bluetooth) any better? Does it reduce those signals piped into your brain or is just another frequency?

Yes, using a headset virtually extinquishes any harmful "waves" going into your head. I would definately invest the $20 into a nice safe headset.

[houstonmacbro]

Yes, using a headset virtually extinquishes any harmful "waves" going into your head. I would definately invest the $20 into a nice safe headset.

I've been using a headset for about 3 years. But ... aren't they using some sort of signal as well?

[musicman]

I've been using a headset for about 3 years. But ... aren't they using some sort of signal as well?

yes but the power needed is a lot lower cause it has a limited range

[editor]

In the past month of using this thing... I have noticed a distinct buzzing/interference "noise" that the blackberry can impose on other, nearby electronics...

Then you get to put this thing next to your head and talk on it. That concerns me. Either that, or trying to type on this thing while you drive, is going to kill us, eventually.

Wow... that's a pretty high level of hysteria for something that's been going on for over half a century.

Backberries aren't the only cell phones that do that. Just about any cell phone will, though it happens more often with GSM models because of the frequencies used. It also happens with iPods, TVs, garage door openers, clock radios, and just about anything electronic.

Hate to break it to you, but your home computer puts out about 20x the radiation of your Blackberry.

There are a lot of factors involved in this kind of interference -- how powerfully the device causing the interference (your cell phone, for example) is transmitting, how close it is to the object being interfered with (like your computer speakers), how well the device being interfered with was built, how well the device being interfered with is shielded, whether both devices are in good operating condition, and whether there are any other objects around on the same frequencies.

That "spooky" noise you hear is GSM data.

This isn't a big deal. Your Blackberry was designed to put out radio waves (cell phone calls and data). Your telecom system was designed to pick up very faint electronic signals (voice phone calls) and amplify them into sound (the "spooky" noise).

Everything is working fine. This sort of thing has been going on since at least the 50's when people started moving into the suburbs and would build houses near radio station transmitters that were formerly in the boonies. Suddenly the radio station next door could be heard on every speaker in the house! Yeah, no big deal. It's called Physics. That's how radio waves work. When you put something close to a transmitter it picks up the transmissions. Duh. You're now experiencing it on a small scale in your office. It used to happen in my old office. It happens in my home if I put my iPhone down on the same counter as my Sirius radio's speakers.

What kind of FCC approval did this thing get? With that much interference on so many common (and not so common!) electronics

[TheNiche]

That was amusing (and informative).

Come to think of it, sometimes the marine radio transmissions from the Port of Galveston get randomly and inadvertently picked up by my parents' stereo system, too.

[houstonmacbro]

That was amusing (and informative).

Come to think of it, sometimes the marine radio transmissions from the Port of Galveston get randomly and inadvertently picked up by my parents' stereo system, too.

I hate it when my iPod trasmitter in my car goes out. I mean, one minute I am happily listening to Discovery News and the next I am getting blasted by some radio station I've never heard of.

[Gary]

Wow... that's a pretty high level of hysteria for something that's been going on for over half a century.

Backberries aren't the only cell phones that do that. Just about any cell phone will, though it happens more often with GSM models because of the frequencies used. It also happens with iPods, TVs, garage door openers, clock radios, and just about anything electronic.

Hate to break it to you, but your home computer puts out about 20x the radiation of your Blackberry.

There are a lot of factors involved in this kind of interference -- how powerfully the device causing the interference (your cell phone, for example) is transmitting, how close it is to the object being interfered with (like your computer speakers), how well the device being interfered with was built, how well the device being interfered with is shielded, whether both devices are in good operating condition, and whether there are any other objects around on the same frequencies.

That "spooky" noise you hear is GSM data.

This isn't a big deal. Your Blackberry was designed to put out radio waves (cell phone calls and data). Your telecom system was designed to pick up very faint electronic signals (voice phone calls) and amplify them into sound (the "spooky" noise).

Everything is working fine. This sort of thing has been going on since at least the 50's when people started moving into the suburbs and would build houses near radio station transmitters that were formerly in the boonies. Suddenly the radio station next door could be heard on every speaker in the house! Yeah, no big deal. It's called Physics. That's how radio waves work. When you put something close to a transmitter it picks up the transmissions. Duh. You're now experiencing it on a small scale in your office. It used to happen in my old office. It happens in my home if I put my iPhone down on the same counter as my Sirius radio's speakers.

The approvals are listed on the back of the device and in the manual in further detail. Oh wait... were you asking to be informed, or did you just want to post a hypothetical question to suggest there's some sort of government conspiracy against your brain?

All consumer electronics devices that are certified by the FCC are required to meet two guidelines:

• They must not produce harmful radio waves.
  
• They must accept all interference from other devices, even if that interference causes unwanted operation.
  

What you're hearing is #2. Just like in the 70's and 80's when your neighbor would turn on his cordless phone and your TV signal would go all funny. It's the same thing you're experiencing with your Blackberry.

If you're that paranoid about stray radio waves, then I recommend ripping all of the electrical wire out of the walls of your house, throwing away all of your light bulbs, toasters, hot air popcorn makers, hair dryers and curling irons because they all create far stronger electromagnetic fields than your Blackberry ever could.

Good stuff Wayne.

I remember in the 70's when using by base station CB, I would occasionaly pick up a radio station, and also would occasionaly pick up CB activity while listening to AM radio.

VHF devices like wireless mics will also pick up various radio wave signals.

[BryanS]

Wow... that's a pretty high level of hysteria for something that's been going on for over half a century.

Backberries aren't the only cell phones that do that. Just about any cell phone will, though it happens more often with GSM models because of the frequencies used. It also happens with iPods, TVs, garage door openers, clock radios, and just about anything electronic.

Hate to break it to you, but your home computer puts out about 20x the radiation of your Blackberry.

There are a lot of factors involved in this kind of interference -- how powerfully the device causing the interference (your cell phone, for example) is transmitting, how close it is to the object being interfered with (like your computer speakers), how well the device being interfered with was built, how well the device being interfered with is shielded, whether both devices are in good operating condition, and whether there are any other objects around on the same frequencies.

That "spooky" noise you hear is GSM data.

This isn't a big deal. Your Blackberry was designed to put out radio waves (cell phone calls and data). Your telecom system was designed to pick up very faint electronic signals (voice phone calls) and amplify them into sound (the "spooky" noise).

Everything is working fine. This sort of thing has been going on since at least the 50's when people started moving into the suburbs and would build houses near radio station transmitters that were formerly in the boonies. Suddenly the radio station next door could be heard on every speaker in the house! Yeah, no big deal. It's called Physics. That's how radio waves work. When you put something close to a transmitter it picks up the transmissions. Duh. You're now experiencing it on a small scale in your office. It used to happen in my old office. It happens in my home if I put my iPhone down on the same counter as my Sirius radio's speakers.

The approvals are listed on the back of the device and in the manual in further detail. Oh wait... were you asking to be informed, or did you just want to post a hypothetical question to suggest there's some sort of government conspiracy against your brain?

All consumer electronics devices that are certified by the FCC are required to meet two guidelines:

• They must not produce harmful radio waves.
  
• They must accept all interference from other devices, even if that interference causes unwanted operation.
  

What you're hearing is #2. Just like in the 70's and 80's when your neighbor would turn on his cordless phone and your TV signal would go all funny. It's the same thing you're experiencing with your Blackberry.

If you're that paranoid about stray radio waves, then I recommend ripping all of the electrical wire out of the walls of your house, throwing away all of your light bulbs, toasters, hot air popcorn makers, hair dryers and curling irons because they all create far stronger electromagnetic fields than your Blackberry ever could.

Thank you for the physics tutorial, Mr. Wizard (I'm joking).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080214144349.htm

An Israeli scientist, Dr. Siegal Sadetzki, has found a link between cell phone usage and the development of tumors.

Those who used a cell phone heavily on the side of the head where the tumor developed were found to have an increased risk of about 50% for developing a tumor of the main salivary gland (parotid), compared to those who did not use cell phones.

The fundamental problem with some of your examples: electrical wiring, TVs, toasters, radios, etc, etc, all these wonderful EM devices that have been around since the 50's, is that you never really put those things right next to your head. Cordless phones have come and gone, so we'll probably never know there.

If cell phones and blackberries are so harmless (because they emit 20x less radiation than your avg PC), then why are more doctors and scientists coming out with stories like this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/13/...ain666601.shtml

As Stewart points out, "Some of the recent information that's coming through does suggest that there may be effects such as tumor formation, and DNA breakage, and these are serious facts if they are proven to be correct."

I'm no government conspiracist. I don't think the FCC is hiding anything... but I do think, being that they control and manage so many aspects of electromagnetic devices (frequencies, etc.) that they would have carved out some other frequency for BB use - so that it didn't interfere with so many existing electronics. It's annoying. That's all I am saying. In the 10 years I've had cell phones, none of them exhibited this kind of behavior.

We're probably not going to know, for sure, until it's too late. Asbestos, at one point, was thought to be harmless.

[editor]

Thank you for the physics tutorial, Mr. Wizard (I'm joking).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080214144349.htm

An Israeli scientist, Dr. Siegal Sadetzki, has found a link between cell phone usage and the development of tumors.

Those who used a cell phone heavily on the side of the head where the tumor developed were found to have an increased risk of about 50% for developing a tumor of the main salivary gland (parotid), compared to those who did not use cell phones.

The fundamental problem with some of your examples: electrical wiring, TVs, toasters, radios, etc, etc, all these wonderful EM devices that have been around since the 50's, is that you never really put those things right next to your head. Cordless phones have come and gone, so we'll probably never know there.

You put a cell phone next to your head for 30 minutes a day. You're surrounded by electric wiring in your home and office about 20 hours a day. Phear the walls!

If cell phones and blackberries are so harmless (because they emit 20x less radiation than your avg PC), then why are more doctors and scientists coming out with stories like this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/13/...ain666601.shtml

As Stewart points out, "Some of the recent information that's coming through does suggest that there may be effects such as tumor formation, and DNA breakage, and these are serious facts if they are proven to be correct."

I'm no government conspiracist. I don't think the FCC is hiding anything... but I do think, being that they control and manage so many aspects of electromagnetic devices (frequencies, etc.) that they would have carved out some other frequency for BB use - so that it didn't interfere with so many existing electronics. It's annoying. That's all I am saying. In the 10 years I've had cell phones, none of them exhibited this kind of behavior.

We're probably not going to know, for sure, until it's too late. Asbestos, at one point, was thought to be harmless.

There are 10 million scientists in the world. About a dozen believe there *may* be a *chance* that cell phones are harmful. And "coming out" isn't exactly accurate. There has been a smattering of scientists saying this since the 80's when cell phones went bagless, and before that there were fringe scientists who said that walkie-talkies did the same thing. And before radios, it was long-term exposure to ink through reading too many newspapers.

Cell phone use exploded in the early 90's. It's been 20 years, if your well vocalized fears are true, then we're about to have a rash of millions of brain tumor cases. I'd wager it won't happen.

If you're really worried about it, you should be more worried about your sperm. Your cell phone spends way more time in your pocket than next to your head.

If the GSM buzz really freaks you out, here's how to get rid of it.

[RedScare]

There are 10 million scientists in the world. About a dozen believe there *may* be a *chance* that cell phones are harmful.

Hmm. 10 million scientists who have not studied the issue beats out the 12 who have studied it. That impresses me almost as much as talk radio hosts declaring global climate change a hoax.

[BryanS]

You put a cell phone next to your head for 30 minutes a day. You're surrounded by electric wiring in your home and office about 20 hours a day. Phear the walls!

There are 10 million scientists in the world. About a dozen believe there *may* be a *chance* that cell phones are harmful. And "coming out" isn't exactly accurate. There has been a smattering of scientists saying this since the 80's when cell phones went bagless, and before that there were fringe scientists who said that walkie-talkies did the same thing. And before radios, it was long-term exposure to ink through reading too many newspapers.

Cell phone use exploded in the early 90's. It's been 20 years, if your well vocalized fears are true, then we're about to have a rash of millions of brain tumor cases. I'd wager it won't happen.

If you're really worried about it, you should be more worried about your sperm. Your cell phone spends way more time in your pocket than next to your head.

If the GSM buzz really freaks you out, here's how to get rid of it.

I think what you are missing is that radiation exposure, from radiation sources, is an exponential function. The sun is fusion bomb, going off right over our heads. But is 92 million miles away. I'm not up in my attic adding lead shielding to my house. Cell phones, blackberries emit way less than that... but they are right next to your body, not 92 million miles away. And even at that distance, you shouldn't spend too much time in the sun because you can get skin cancer. In that same vein, it may prove that you want to limit your cell phone exposure to your head because there are reports coming out indicating problems, links to cancer.

To illustrate my point, here is a picture for you:

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/...finds.html#more

In children, cell phone radiation almost pentrates the skull, from ear to ear.

...and another...

http://alinaphoenix.wordpress.com/

...after 15 minutes... look what happens. I see red, I see heating. And that heating is near the lower salivary gland/area that people are showing up with cancer, at rates higher than average, that has some doctors concerned.

...and you're right. I've also thought about what might be happening to body parts near my pockets with my cell phone and blackberry in there. It makes you wonder.

It is almost as if you advocate the status quo of our present understanding of the situation and, that alone, should suffice (no ill health effects). However, the status quo - before we really started looking into the problems - also found no links between smoking and cancer, that asbestos was perfectly safe, etc. We turned out to be wrong, way wrong, in those cases. And while the jury is still out, I would bet in 20 years, we will find links.

EDIT: Just for the record, the YouTube videos of cell phones popping popcorn kernels is a hoax. Cell phones cannot do that.

[memebag]

Hmm. 10 million scientists who have not studied the issue beats out the 12 who have studied it. That impresses me almost as much as talk radio hosts declaring global climate change a hoax.

A lot more than 12 scientists have studied the cancer risks of non-ionizing radiation. UV is the only form of non-ionizing radiation proven to cause cancer in humans. That doesn't mean you can't get cancer from a cell phone, but there's no consistent data showing that you can. If you just want to worry, worry about sunlight before you worry about cell phones.

[TheNiche]

I think what you are missing is that radiation exposure, from radiation sources, is an exponential function. The sun is fusion bomb, going off right over our heads. But is 92 million miles away. I'm not up in my attic adding lead shielding to my house.

You should know (given your line of work) that it is Earth's magnetic field is what prevents harmful solar radiation from getting through. Distance is not the key variable.

[editor]

I think what you are missing is that radiation exposure, from radiation sources, is an exponential function. The sun is fusion bomb, going off right over our heads. But is 92 million miles away. I'm not up in my attic adding lead shielding to my house. Cell phones, blackberries emit way less than that... but they are right next to your body, not 92 million miles away. And even at that distance, you shouldn't spend too much time in the sun because you can get skin cancer. In that same vein, it may prove that you want to limit your cell phone exposure to your head because there are reports coming out indicating problems, links to cancer.

To illustrate my point, here is a picture for you:

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/...finds.html#more

In children, cell phone radiation almost pentrates the skull, from ear to ear.

...and another...

http://alinaphoenix.wordpress.com/

...after 15 minutes... look what happens. I see red, I see heating. And that heating is near the lower salivary gland/area that people are showing up with cancer, at rates higher than average, that has some doctors concerned.

...and you're right. I've also thought about what might be happening to body parts near my pockets with my cell phone and blackberry in there. It makes you wonder.

It is almost as if you advocate the status quo of our present understanding of the situation and, that alone, should suffice (no ill health effects). However, the status quo - before we really started looking into the problems - also found no links between smoking and cancer, that asbestos was perfectly safe, etc. We turned out to be wrong, way wrong, in those cases. And while the jury is still out, I would bet in 20 years, we will find links.

EDIT: Just for the record, the YouTube videos of cell phones popping popcorn kernels is a hoax. Cell phones cannot do that.

All you've done is show pictures that allegedly show radiation going into a human head. We already know that cell phones put out radiation and that it goes through a human head. That's not news. If it didn't happen, then your cell phone wouldn't work.

There's all sorts of radiation being pushed through our bodies all the time from the ground, from the air, from electrical wires, from the sun, from your TV, from radio stations and again from those evil toasters. What hasn't been proven is that it's harmful.

One picture you posted shows a head being hot after a phone call. You know what? If I press my hand to my head for the length of a phone call it's going to get hot, too.

Blog posts are not science. They're not even journalism. All responsible sources say "may," "possibly," and "could be." When legitimate science develops a consensus that isn't hedged, then I'll believe it.

[plumber2]

My head feels hot right now. Maybe because I just took a big gulp of coffee. Uhmmm good.

Back in the 70's when my geeky friends and I were using CB radois we could always go to a certain spot in Galveston and talk with people in Missouri. Wisconsin, or Mexico, you name it. It was called the "Crystal Spot" for some reason. The spot was near the corner of 53rd and Ave S.

I was driving down Ave S just the other day talking on my Treo, and turned on to 53rd when the call suddenly dropped. I couldn't get the call back until I got several blocks away. When I finally got the person back, they told me that they were hearing a different conversation before their cell dropped their call also. Spooky!

[RedScare]

A lot more than 12 scientists have studied the cancer risks of non-ionizing radiation. UV is the only form of non-ionizing radiation proven to cause cancer in humans. That doesn't mean you can't get cancer from a cell phone, but there's no consistent data showing that you can. If you just want to worry, worry about sunlight before you worry about cell phones.

Oh, I'm not worried about it. I was just pointing out the foolishness of the suggestion that 10 million scientists not commenting on cell phone hazards meant that they found none. I believe it is an unanswered question that warrants more study. We used plastics for 50 years before they found that some of them leach cancer causing toxins into the water they hold. There are numerous unintended consequences to our scientific advances.

In the meantime, I still use my phone. But, because I do not have it attached to my ear all day long like some users, I am not concerned about it.

[BryanS]

You should know that it is Earth's magnetic field is what prevents harmful solar radiation from getting through. Distance is not the key variable.

.

Do you actually believe this statement? If you're far away from a known, hazardous radiation source (the sun, an atomic bomb going off, Chernobyl, etc.)

[TheNiche]

Thank you for pointing out that the Earth does have a magnetic field. But it doesn't block everything. People get cancer from harmful solar radiation here on earth.

According to the Health Physics Society, "The only conclusive adverse health effect from natural radiation has been the reported increase of lung cancers in underground miners exposed to radon. Sources of natural radiation include cosmic radiation from space, terrestrial radionuclides in the earth, and cosmogenic radionuclides, such as 3H and 14C, that are created by cosmic radiation in the atmosphere."

Assuming your level of shielding (or lack thereof) is constant, distance is the key variable. If you walk around in a lead suit, you'll obviously reduce your exposure, but that's not what I am talking about.

And assuming your distance is constant, shielding is the key variable. I'm thinking that I probably misspoke by trying to label something a 'key variable', but that you should've been more thoughtful in the first place in acknowledging other pertinent factors.

[20thStDad]

If my blackberry kills me it will be because I'm trying to email someone while driving. If radiation kills me it will be because I work right next to that plethora of radio towers between Pearland and Missouri City, I can see them right outside my office window. Still bitter about this office move...

[houstonmacbro]

If my blackberry kills me it will be because I'm trying to email someone while driving. If radiation kills me it will be because I work right next to that plethora of radio towers between Pearland and Missouri City, I can see them right outside my office window. Still bitter about this office move...

I think mobile phones are just one source of all this radiation. Have we forgotten about televisions, microwave ovens, computers, laptops (and those if used as a laptop are closer to our important man parts than a phone would be).

Heck, I just say use all this stuff with caution.

[memebag]

Oh, I'm not worried about it. I was just pointing out the foolishness of the suggestion that 10 million scientists not commenting on cell phone hazards meant that they found none.

But you then seem to suggest that every scientist who studied it found a cancer link:

10 million scientists who have not studied the issue beats out the 12 who have studied it.

Most of the research shows no link.

[editor]

According to the Health Physics Society, "The only conclusive adverse health effect from natural radiation has been the reported increase of lung cancers in underground miners exposed to radon. Sources of natural radiation include cosmic radiation from space, terrestrial radionuclides in the earth, and cosmogenic radionuclides, such as 3H and 14C, that are created by cosmic radiation in the atmosphere."

I've never heard of the Health Physics Society. But that statement flies in the face of things that people from mountainous areas know -- that radon can harm your health, even if you're not a miner.

In 1992 the EPA estimated that 21,000 people died from radon exposure in their homes. The New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection even has a document on testing granite countertops to see if they're giving off harmful levels of radon.

The Surgeon General's office states that radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer behind smoking. The federal EPA encourages homeowners in the Northeast and some other regions to test their homes for radon regularly. In those areas you can buy radon detection kits in hardware stores. Some states will even send state inspectors to your house to check it for radon.

Beyond that, there are many parts of the world (and even parts of east central Ohio) where uranium occurs naturally and is a hazard to people living in the area.

I don't know who wrote that statement for the Health Physics Society, but it seems completely wrong.