Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Rice - Baylor Med Merger


  • Please log in to reply
73 replies to this topic

#1 roadrunner

roadrunner
  • Full Member
  • 484 posts

Posted Wednesday, October 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM

http://www.chron.com...nt/6083117.html

"Rice University and Baylor College of Medicine have begun holding serious discussions that could lead to a merger of the state's top private university and one of the country's best medical schools.

A merger would bring Rice the reputational enhancement it has long desired and Baylor the security of a university affiliation, which is often necessary to keep medical schools afloat financially. Baylor is one of only nine stand-alone medical schools in the United States."

#2 Porchman

Porchman
  • Full Member
  • 1098 posts
  • Location:Heights
  • HAIFing from The Heights.
  •  

Posted Wednesday, October 29, 2008 at 8:54 AM

http://www.chron.com...nt/6083117.html


I think a merger would be beneficial for both institutions. Collaborative synergy and joint grant applications could create an even bigger powerhouse in the biomedical sciences.

Moreover, I was interested in the articles mention about concern over BCM's precarious financial situation, and the future of its President...

"The possible strains have raised questions about the future of Baylor's president, Dr. Peter Traber. A spokesperson declined comment, but numerous sources in the Medical Center said his leadership is the subject of board discussion."


The BCM Board should discuss his leadership as well as their own. In just 5 short years, BCM kissed off a 50-year relationship with Methodist, then couldn't play nice with St. Lukes, then leveraged itself to the hilt to build a hospital in an ever-evolving and highly competitive, managed health care environment.
Porchman

#3 Fringe

Fringe
  • Full Member
  • 2020 posts
  • HAIFing from none.
  •  

Posted Wednesday, October 29, 2008 at 9:14 AM

Heard about this possible merger a few weeks ago. Only problem is BCM is broke and obviously their leaders don't know what the hell they are doing so it sounds more like a "bailout" to me, with Rice acting in place of the government. Not sure if Rice can handle all the problems it would inherit.

#4 CoolBuddy06

CoolBuddy06
  • Full Member
  • 471 posts
  • Location:Manvel

Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 at 2:31 AM

Rice has directed more attention to medical research in the last decade. It officially became a TMC institution in 2003 I think. Thinking of taking over Baylor clearly shows Rice's vision. But they do need to iron out a lot of things, one of which is Baylor's affiliations with TMC hospitals. Without good practice sites there is no good med school.
CoolBuddy06
iThink forever.

#5 editor

editor
  • Administrator
  • 11123 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas
  • HAIFing from I move around a lot.
  •  

Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 at 10:52 AM

Let's brainstorm a new name.

I'm voting for "Baylorice" -- Pronounced "Bale of Rice."

#6 TexasVines

TexasVines

    User Rank:

  • Associates
  • 745 posts
  • HAIFing from none.
  •  

Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 at 3:22 PM

http://www.nacubo.or....._2007 NES.pdf

"""Rice is the more affluent of the two institutions. As of June 30, its endowment was $4.6 billion. As of Sept. 30, Baylor's was $954 million."""

has Baylor somehow really eaten through 300+ million of their endowment? :mellow: :huh:

#7 IronTiger

IronTiger

    Casualty of the Northwest Freeway

  • Full Member
  • 3639 posts
  • Location:Home
  • HAIFing from College Station.

Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 at 4:24 PM

I hope that Rice wouldn't change their name...since Baylor Med is apparently broke, why not absorb them?

The "clash of cultures" seems imminent. I say no. :o
RIP:
Auchan (1988-2003)
Foley's (1900-2006)
Astroworld (1968-2005)
The MKT Railroad (1893-1997)
Variety Fair 5&10 (1948-2010)

Also, please visit College Station Roads & Retail.

Would you like the Houston Center original plans scan, as seen in the "Houston: Potential" thread? PM me!

#8 sarahiki

sarahiki
  • Full Member
  • 653 posts
  • HAIFing from Westbury.
  •  

Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 at 6:11 PM

I hope that Rice wouldn't change their name...since Baylor Med is apparently broke, why not absorb them?

The "clash of cultures" seems imminent. I say no. :o

Rice won't change their name. They will acquire a medical school.

#9 Porchman

Porchman
  • Full Member
  • 1098 posts
  • Location:Heights
  • HAIFing from The Heights.
  •  

Posted Thursday, October 30, 2008 at 7:24 PM

Let's brainstorm a new name.

I'm voting for "Baylorice" -- Pronounced "Bale of Rice."


In all seriousness, though, if this thing were to happen, I would love to see it named the DeBakey School of Medicine at Rice University. Not only did Dr. DeBakey bring tremendous prominence to BCM, he assigned many of his patent royalties to the institution over the years. In so doing, he may be one of BCM's biggest, all-time donors.
Porchman

#10 plumber2

plumber2
  • Full Member
  • 1240 posts
  • Location:Western Galveston County
  • HAIFing from none.
  •  

Posted Friday, October 31, 2008 at 9:41 AM

In all seriousness, though, if this thing were to happen, I would love to see it named the DeBakey School of Medicine at Rice University. Not only did Dr. DeBakey bring tremendous prominence to BCM, he assigned many of his patent royalties to the institution over the years. In so doing, he may be one of BCM's biggest, all-time donors.


"Say it ain't so Joe!"

#11 KinkaidAlum

KinkaidAlum
  • Full Member
  • 2983 posts
  • Location:People's Republic of Boston
  • HAIFing from No longer in Texas.

Posted Friday, October 31, 2008 at 10:40 AM

Baylor has a great national reputation and would be a nice fit with Rice's image. Too bad Baylor and Methodist had such an ugly split though. It was so ugly that I wonder if this is Traber's last middle finger effort to Methodist? After all Methodist announced the possibility of using their new affiliation with Cornell Med to help the University of Houston open a Medical School in the TMC tied to Methodist...

#12 wernicke

wernicke
  • Full Member
  • 507 posts

Posted Friday, October 31, 2008 at 3:16 PM

Baylor has a great national reputation and would be a nice fit with Rice's image. Too bad Baylor and Methodist had such an ugly split though. It was so ugly that I wonder if this is Traber's last middle finger effort to Methodist? After all Methodist announced the possibility of using their new affiliation with Cornell Med to help the University of Houston open a Medical School in the TMC tied to Methodist...


Methodist affiliated with Cornell because the "Best Hospital" rankings require a medical school affiliation... basically Methodist just payed to put the Cornell name on official documents and signs. Very little collaboration goes on with the institution in New York. The establishment of a UofH medical school affiliated with Methodist is an entirely different issue. Although, most people think El Paso is next in line for a new medical school (affiliated with Texas Tech, I believe)... and it is clearly harder to sell a third med school in the Houston area. But I think it will happen eventually, and Methodist's new research building and institute is a step in that direction.

I think BCM royally screwed up when they broke from Methodist... they lost huge numbers of medicine and surgical faculty to better paying jobs and nicer facilities at Methodist. Seems like their leadership is a mess. The ambitious hospital development plus a terrible economy has exposed serious institutional problems. They continue to be ranked in the top 10 medical schools though.

#13 TexasVines

TexasVines

    User Rank:

  • Associates
  • 745 posts
  • HAIFing from none.
  •  

Posted Friday, October 31, 2008 at 3:30 PM

Methodist affiliated with Cornell because the "Best Hospital" rankings require a medical school affiliation... basically Methodist just payed to put the Cornell name on official documents and signs. Very little collaboration goes on with the institution in New York. The establishment of a UofH medical school affiliated with Methodist is an entirely different issue. Although, most people think El Paso is next in line for a new medical school (affiliated with Texas Tech, I believe)... and it is clearly harder to sell a third med school in the Houston area. But I think it will happen eventually, and Methodist's new research building and institute is a step in that direction.

I think BCM royally screwed up when they broke from Methodist... they lost huge numbers of medicine and surgical faculty to better paying jobs and nicer facilities at Methodist. Seems like their leadership is a mess. The ambitious hospital development plus a terrible economy has exposed serious institutional problems. They continue to be ranked in the top 10 medical schools though.


Texas Tech has already established their second medical school and yes it is in El Paso

http://www.ttuhsc.edu/elpaso/

#14 wernicke

wernicke
  • Full Member
  • 507 posts

Posted Friday, October 31, 2008 at 3:40 PM

Texas Tech has already established their second medical school and yes it is in El Paso

http://www.ttuhsc.edu/elpaso/


Cool... wasn't aware it was already approved.

The Texas Tech School of Medicine was established in 1969 for the West Texas region and El Paso has hosted a regional campus since 1973. The El Paso campus has provided clinical training for a large portion of Texas Tech's School of Medicine for well over 30 years. The Paul L. Foster School of Medicine at El Paso is a new full four year medical school that will have its first freshman class start in August 2009.


So I guess, now there is a TT med school based in Lubbock, but still with 3rd and 4th year rotations in El Paso and a TT med school entirely based in El Paso.

#15 CoolBuddy06

CoolBuddy06
  • Full Member
  • 471 posts
  • Location:Manvel

Posted Friday, October 31, 2008 at 4:21 PM

I hope that Rice wouldn't change their name...since Baylor Med is apparently broke, why not absorb them?

The "clash of cultures" seems imminent. I say no. :o


I will suggest BCM at Rice U.
CoolBuddy06
iThink forever.

#16 sevfiv

sevfiv
  • Moderator
  • 7910 posts
  • Location:SE side
  • HAIFing from Deep in the heart of Texas.
  •  

Posted Friday, December 19, 2008 at 11:20 AM

Update on the potential academic and research "powerhouse:"

We are writing to update you on the status of merger discussions between Baylor College of Medicine and Rice University – discussions which could
join our institutions into an academic and research powerhouse that could make huge contributions to health and prosperity here and around the world.
Texas Children’s Hospital is playing an integral role as these discussions progress. We have before us a unique opportunity for all three institutions, and others, to take a giant step forward in creating a world-class university and academic medical center that will serve our stakeholders, city and state well. We appreciate the enthusiastic expressions of support for these discussions that we have received from our various constituencies.

The advancement of education and research provides the primary impetus for the discussions, and we believe the resulting knowledge and discovery can improve health care and, in the process, create a dynamic engine of biomedical enterprise in the Texas Medical Center. The partnership would create a premier research university with unparalleled ability to translate new discoveries into innovative medical care that protects and restores the health of the patients we would serve, and of
people around the world who would benefit from these treatments and technologies.

Many issues remain to be resolved. Positive solutions must be found, for example, for the new BCM hospital now under construction and the relocation
and continuing operations of the Baylor Clinic. Texas Children's Hospital and BCM -- already primary partners in pediatric and obstetrical care -- are
working on identifying solutions. BCM also has important relationships with other institutions in the Texas Medical Center, including The Methodist Hospital, St. Luke’s Episcopal Hospital, the Michael E. DeBakey Veterans Affairs Medical Center and Ben Taub General Hospital. A successful merger would include strengthening those collaborations.

The proximity of these and other institutions in the Texas Medical Center is rich ground for such partnerships. In this age of bioscience, the results of that collaborative research offer breathtaking possibilities for the prosperity and prominence of Houston and Texas.

BCM, TCH and Rice are committed to this significant and worthy goal and we will continue to update you as the discussions evolve.


------
-------------
-----------------------

www.facebook.com/archarchive


#17 strickn

strickn
  • Full Member
  • 376 posts
  • HAIFing from none.

Posted Thursday, February 12, 2009 at 11:32 PM

BCM got ahead of itself, sadly. Med schools have such vicious internal politics that that can happen more easily than you would think for such large behemoths (they will also have a doubly hard time integrating outside influence). Endowments are going to keep taking hits for the foreseeable future, so it's a question of the extent to which Rice sees that writing on the wall and decides the higher profile name placement is worth the very serious risks. If they risk it, Rice will get top billing because reputation promotion is half the game. Rice University will remain Rice University; BCM will much more likely become the Rice University Baylor College of Medicine - indicating that it's one of the subsidiary faculties (a bit more like MIT Sloan, although there was no merger there, than a merged name like Case Western) - than simply Rice Baylor College of Medicine.

#18 strickn

strickn
  • Full Member
  • 376 posts
  • HAIFing from none.

Posted Friday, February 13, 2009 at 6:42 PM

http://www.nacubo.or....._2007 NES.pdf

"""Rice is the more affluent of the two institutions. As of June 30, its endowment was $4.6 billion. As of Sept. 30, Baylor's was $954 million."""

has Baylor somehow really eaten through 300+ million of their endowment? :mellow: :huh:


Yes. If you compare nacubo's FY 2004 report, when the BCM endowment was $ .972 billion, to the 30/09/2007 one you link, when it was $ .954 billion, and then add in the statement in the back of their Winter 2008 print magazine that they have received just over $ .7 billion in philanthropic donations since 2003, they have eaten through a lot.

http://www.nacubo.or...etsforPress.pdf

#19 marmer

marmer
  • Full Member
  • 1401 posts
  • Location:Pearland

Posted Friday, February 13, 2009 at 6:59 PM

I have heard from a BCM staffer that one of the conditions of the breakup of the Baylor College of Medicine from Baylor University (in the 1960's) was that if the College of Medicine were to associate itself with another (then) Southwest Conference school it could no longer use the Baylor name. The proposed name would be something like the DeBakey College of Medicine at Rice University. Yes, the DeBakey name would definitely be used.

My source also said that the influential Jewish leadership of the Texas Children's Hospital really did not want to see Baylor re-associate itself with a "sectarian" institution (presumably Methodist or St. Luke's.) and that was one of the reasons why Rice was so attractive.

That plus apparently a lot of board overlap among Rice and BCM.

The time frame of this merger would be dependent upon substantial completion of the BCM hospital building structure so that it could be taken over by Harris County as a psychiatric hospital.

I have no way to substantiate any of this since I am hearing it secondhand. Just thought it was interesting.

#20 Porchman

Porchman
  • Full Member
  • 1098 posts
  • Location:Heights
  • HAIFing from The Heights.
  •  

Posted Friday, February 13, 2009 at 9:08 PM

I have heard from a BCM staffer that one of the conditions of the breakup of the Baylor College of Medicine from Baylor University (in the 1960's) was that if the College of Medicine were to associate itself with another (then) Southwest Conference school it could no longer use the Baylor name. The proposed name would be something like the DeBakey College of Medicine at Rice University. Yes, the DeBakey name would definitely be used.


That would be great. He has a great legacy with BCM, and, from what I understand, he had given (continues to give!) through patents of his inventions. We're not talking small numbers. :mellow:

My source also said that the influential Jewish leadership of the Texas Children's Hospital really did not want to see Baylor re-associate itself with a "sectarian" institution (presumably Methodist or St. Luke's.) and that was one of the reasons why Rice was so attractive.




Peter Wareing's jewish! Who knew? Oy! :D



Both institutions have had jewish leadership for many years. Actually it's a matter of business and business model.



Regarding Methodist…

The TMH/BCM divorce has much emotion wrapped around it. They basically want to piss on each other. (How healthy is that? :P ). Also, TMH has a 50-year contract with Weill Cornell. They have invested much into the TMH Research Center. They also have developed a formidable network of community hospitals. Just not a good fit with a very siloed clinical care institution.




Regarding St. Lukes Episcopal Hospital…

They have a model built around primary care. They have created a vast network of clinics. They also have a deep relationship with Kelsey-Seybold. That primary care is not a good fit with BCM's research/tertiary aspirations.



That plus apparently a lot of board overlap among Rice and BCM.



That makes sense. If anything, Houston is still a town that consolidates power. Always has been.

The time frame of this merger would be dependent upon substantial completion of the BCM hospital building structure so that it could be taken over by Harris County as a psychiatric hospital.




Uhhh…Baylor has a psych clinic (in a basic outpatient model). However, the ONLY inpatient facilities that operate around here are TMH and HCPC
(operated by UT Health Science)



Oh, there is Menninger. BCM and TMH have interest of that. If BCM is looking to offload that, they should just have write it off to TMH.
Porchman

#21 Houston19514

Houston19514
  • Full Member
  • 4509 posts
  • HAIFing from none.
  •  

Posted Saturday, February 14, 2009 at 10:00 AM

Yes. If you compare nacubo's FY 2004 report, when the BCM endowment was $ .972 billion, to the 30/09/2007 one you link, when it was $ .954 billion, and then add in the statement in the back of their Winter 2008 print magazine that they have received just over $ .7 billion in philanthropic donations since 2003, they have eaten through a lot.

http://www.nacubo.or...etsforPress.pdf



Your own numbers show they have not eaten through any like $300 Million of their endowment. To the contrary, you show their endowment going down by only $18 Million; one would imagine they might have had some losses on their investments. Perhaps they've burned through a lot of other money; I don't know. But not all money goes in the endowment.

The fact that they have raised just over $700 Million in donations since 2003, while the endowment has not grown substantially does not really tell us anything either. Not all donations go to the endowment (in fact, I would venture to guess that most do NOT go into the endowment) and not all of that money has necessarily been spent.

A lot of those donations are probably for the new hospital construction. (For example Dan Duncan gave $35 Million in 2004 for a new adult ambulatory care center, and also pledged $100 Million for the cancer center; Neither of those amounts is likely to be in the endowment; first, because they are pledged for specific items, including construction and equipment; and second because, at least in part, they are pledges that may not have been completely delivered yet.)

Edited by Houston19514, Monday, February 16, 2009 at 11:51 AM.


#22 tamtagon

tamtagon
  • Full Member
  • 494 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, Dallas
  • HAIFing from none.

Posted Sunday, February 15, 2009 at 1:42 AM

This merger would be a pretty unusual thing, right, doesn't happen very often...?

#23 frid

frid
  • Full Member
  • 19 posts

Posted Monday, February 16, 2009 at 8:24 PM

I have heard from a BCM staffer that one of the conditions of the breakup of the Baylor College of Medicine from Baylor University (in the 1960's) was that if the College of Medicine were to associate itself with another (then) Southwest Conference school it could no longer use the Baylor name. The proposed name would be something like the DeBakey College of Medicine at Rice University. Yes, the DeBakey name would definitely be used.

My source also said that the influential Jewish leadership of the Texas Children's Hospital really did not want to see Baylor re-associate itself with a "sectarian" institution (presumably Methodist or St. Luke's.) and that was one of the reasons why Rice was so attractive.

That plus apparently a lot of board overlap among Rice and BCM.

The time frame of this merger would be dependent upon substantial completion of the BCM hospital building structure so that it could be taken over by Harris County as a psychiatric hospital.

I have no way to substantiate any of this since I am hearing it secondhand. Just thought it was interesting.


My sources say that the original plan for the BCM hospital and clinic is still a go; The real question that needs to be answered is what happens to all of the faculty at SLEH when the new hospital opens. I think BCM has the potential to take a large faculty hit when this happens. Some of these folks are perfectly happy where they are and don't want to leave.

#24 strickn

strickn
  • Full Member
  • 376 posts
  • HAIFing from none.

Posted Monday, February 16, 2009 at 11:47 PM

Anyone's happy to leave the proving job to the fact (that tamtagon picks up on) that this is an institution backed into a corner.

Your own numbers show they have not ...


This merger would be a pretty unusual thing, right, doesn't happen very often...?



#25 Houston19514

Houston19514
  • Full Member
  • 4509 posts
  • HAIFing from none.
  •  

Posted Tuesday, February 17, 2009 at 6:39 PM

Anyone's happy to leave the proving job to the fact (that tamtagon picks up on) that this is an institution backed into a corner.



really not sure where you're going with that. They may or may not be in financial difficulty; I do not know and have not expressed an opinion. And that is a quite different (although related) question than the question of whether they have eaten through a lot of their endowment.

All my post demonstrated was that, at least according to the figures you posted, they had NOT eaten through any significant amount of their endowment (contrary to your statement).

#26 frid

frid
  • Full Member
  • 19 posts

Posted Wednesday, March 25, 2009 at 9:34 PM

So, BCM has sent out the word that they are finishing the exterior of their new hospital, but will suspend construction of the interior indefinitely until they have the financial capacity to do so.

#27 TheNiche

TheNiche
  • Castaway
  • 14102 posts
  • HAIFing from none.
  •  

Posted Wednesday, March 25, 2009 at 9:40 PM

So, BCM has sent out the word that they are finishing the exterior of their new hospital, but will suspend construction of the interior indefinitely until they have the financial capacity to do so.


WTF!? Are they that seriously mismanaged? :blink:

#28 houstonfella

houstonfella
  • Full Member
  • 1022 posts
  • HAIFing from none.

Posted Thursday, March 26, 2009 at 7:15 AM

Here' the full story link from the Chron.

Chronicle

In an e-mail to faculty, Butler said the temporary suspension buys time to acquire additional capital through philanthropy, federal funds and other sources, gives the markets a chance to settle and provides an opportunity to consider project partners.

Sources said that by not building out the interior, it’s also possible the hospital shell would be more attractive to a buyer wanting to tailor the facility to its own desired specifications.

But in his e-mail to faculty, Butler dismissed such speculation: “Taking this pause will allow us to ultimately fulfill the plan to build the hospital,” he wrote. “The board has made it clear it is committed to this project.”

#29 plumber2

plumber2
  • Full Member
  • 1240 posts
  • Location:Western Galveston County
  • HAIFing from none.
  •  

Posted Friday, March 27, 2009 at 8:10 AM

Here' the full story link from the Chron.

Chronicle

In an e-mail to faculty, Butler said the temporary suspension buys time to acquire additional capital through philanthropy, federal funds and other sources, gives the markets a chance to settle and provides an opportunity to consider project partners.

Sources said that by not building out the interior, it’s also possible the hospital shell would be more attractive to a buyer wanting to tailor the facility to its own desired specifications.

But in his e-mail to faculty, Butler dismissed such speculation: “Taking this pause will allow us to ultimately fulfill the plan to build the hospital,” he wrote. “The board has made it clear it is committed to this project.”



The article also mentioned that the board had hired Price-Waterhouse to give them recommendations. That translates into "layoffs".

#30 CoolBuddy06

CoolBuddy06
  • Full Member
  • 471 posts
  • Location:Manvel

Posted Saturday, March 28, 2009 at 5:21 PM

An e-mail from Texas Children's did say that Baylor and Rice signed MOU on the merger, meaning that talks are still going on.
CoolBuddy06
iThink forever.