Lightrail/BRT Discussion

[TheNiche]

Not everyone would be going Downtown. Those four to five stops are at major population/employment centers. If the train stopped at the Marq*E/Northwest Transit Center station, then someone could catch the light rail to the Galleria area. Same thing for the Memorial City and Highway 6 area (though those would most likely be buses).

I wouldn't consider Highway 6 and I-10 to be a major population or employment center. And even though the Energy Corridor and Park 10 are in general proximity, nothing of importance is within walking distance of there. It would require an extensive and costly system of local bus routes to make it work as an employment destination, and the fact is that while the bulk of employees of that area are already scattered throughout greater west Houston and wouldn't be able to use transit very efficiently, those that aren't living there are scattered all over the place, making any sort of P&R or commuter rail service very difficult to justify. Its just a tough nut to crack.

Memorial City is slightly easier to justify, but it too is far more spread out than most people are willing to walk. A shuttle service or system of pedestrian skywalks like is in the TMC would be necessary. In contrast, P&R busses can make a circuit and drop people closer to their office buildings.

I wouldn't consider the Marq*E center to be close enough to the Northwest Transit Center to consider it served by the Transit Center...or to merit its own stop. The Northwest Transit Center is not itself near an employment/population center and would require people to transfer from one mode to another to get people to an employment/population center, resulting in some inconvenience and wasted time. In comparison, a Park & Ride bus could (and IMO should) deliver riders directly to Uptown and make a circuit so as to serve all parts of Uptown, including those not within walking distance to any new BRT on Post Oak Blvd.

It wouldn't remove lane miles, either. There would still be a four-five lane wide Katy Freeway (on each side). The only difference is that tollway wouldn't be there, and there could possibly still be an HOV lane (one lane in each direction).

Oh, now I understand! You don't want to remove lane miles, just two to four lanes of HOT. And HOT isn't road, nor is it going to serve any purpose that might be viewed as an opportunity cost.

I have seen this done on I-10 in Los Angeles, so it works.

I don't dispute that your idea can be done...just whether it should be done.

Do bear in mind that the LA metropolitan area has more than twice the population to contend with than we do, and that as population of a region increases, so does the individual's propensity to use transit. Little things like that do occasionally make a difference in determining what works best as far as transit is concerned.

[Trae]

I wouldn't consider Highway 6 and I-10 to be a major population or employment center. And even though the Energy Corridor and Park 10 are in general proximity, nothing of importance is within walking distance of there. It would require an extensive and costly system of local bus routes to make it work as an employment destination, and the fact is that while the bulk of employees of that area are already scattered throughout greater west Houston and wouldn't be able to use transit very efficiently, those that aren't living there are scattered all over the place, making any sort of P&R or commuter rail service very difficult to justify. Its just a tough nut to crack.

I actually would consider the Highway 6/Park 10 area a major employement center for this side of town. It would actually not be too hard to shuttle people to the employement centers, either. Once the train would stop at the station there, a shuttle bus would be waiting for them to take them the rest of the way. A few bus stops could be placed in Park 10 and those four tall towers and the smaller ones around that.

Memorial City is slightly easier to justify, but it too is far more spread out than most people are willing to walk. A shuttle service or system of pedestrian skywalks like is in the TMC would be necessary. In contrast, P&R busses can make a circuit and drop people closer to their office buildings.

The same thing for the Memorial City stop (as I said above). Also, there isn't a P&R close to Memorial City. The closest is Highway 6.

I wouldn't consider the Marq*E center to be close enough to the Northwest Transit Center to consider it served by the Transit Center...or to merit its own stop. The Northwest Transit Center is not itself near an employment/population center and would require people to transfer from one mode to another to get people to an employment/population center, resulting in some inconvenience and wasted time. In comparison, a Park & Ride bus could (and IMO should) deliver riders directly to Uptown and make a circuit so as to serve all parts of Uptown, including those not within walking distance to any new BRT on Post Oak Blvd.

The Northwest Transit Stop would be the easiest. A light rail line (BRT at the moment) will connect the the NW Transit Center. If a commuter rail stoped there, people could then catch the LRT to Uptown, a major employment center.

Oh, now I understand! You don't want to remove lane miles, just two to four lanes of HOT. And HOT isn't road, nor is it going to serve any purpose that might be viewed as an opportunity cost.

Well, the freeway needed to be widened regardless. Four (or five) lanes in each direction (I would prefer four, but five would probably be needed), one HOV lane in each direction, and a commuter rail line down the middle would work.

I don't dispute that your idea can be done...just whether it should be done.

I think it should.

Do bear in mind that the LA metropolitan area has more than twice the population to contend with than we do, and that as population of a region increases, so does the individual's propensity to use transit. Little things like that do occasionally make a difference in determining what works best as far as transit is concerned.

And this region we live in now is growing and growing every year. Chicago has done the same thing with many of their commuter rail lines.

[TheNiche]

I actually would consider the Highway 6/Park 10 area a major employement center for this side of town. It would actually not be too hard to shuttle people to the employement centers, either. Once the train would stop at the station there, a shuttle bus would be waiting for them to take them the rest of the way. A few bus stops could be placed in Park 10 and those four tall towers and the smaller ones around that.

The same thing for the Memorial City stop (as I said above). Also, there isn't a P&R close to Memorial City. The closest is Highway 6.

The Northwest Transit Stop would be the easiest. A light rail line (BRT at the moment) will connect the the NW Transit Center. If a commuter rail stoped there, people could then catch the LRT to Uptown, a major employment center.

Well, the freeway needed to be widened regardless. Four (or five) lanes in each direction (I would prefer four, but five would probably be needed), one HOV lane in each direction, and a commuter rail line down the middle would work.

I think it should.

I know what you're trying to say. You've said it already, and I've provided counterpoints. But why am I wrong?

And this region we live in now is growing and growing every year. Chicago has done the same thing with many of their commuter rail lines.

We aren't going to approach Chicago's current size for at least another 20 or 30 years. Perhaps the next time I-10 needs reconstruction, your idea may have become more practical (though I doubt that it will necessarily be the most practical), but it wasn't in 2005, and it isn't today.

[Ethanra]

With all the new development on Post Oak (BLVD place, Cosmo, etc...), does any one think that the investors know something about the UT line that the public doesn't? Like, it is for 100% sure it is going to be built or even be LRT? Same with the university line. There has been some new development inside the loop along Richmond...

[Highway6]

With all the new development on Post Oak (BLVD place, Cosmo, etc...), does any one think that the investors know something about the UT line that the public doesn't? Like, it is for 100% sure it is going to be built or even be LRT? Same with the university line. There has been some new development inside the loop along Richmond...

No.. to answer your question. These developments are hardly new.. not relative to the the process of getting rails in the ground.

Both Cosmo and BLVD have been in the works for quite awhile. 2-3 years ago, the developers knew the same stuff we knew - Metro wanted to include a N-S piece of the rail network along Post Oak and it would eventually happen and if it fell through, they still had pretty damn good locations to develop.

I just question your skepticism.. I'm the 'public'.. and i believe it's 100% going to be built and will 100% be LRT along Post Oak because that is what Metro wants.

Nothing has happened in the last 2 years to indicate to me that each line Metro has currently planned won't get built.

[RedScare]

The Uptown segment appears to have been decided as to allignment. Only 3 alternatives were debated, and every one of them went down the Post Oak median. The only debate was the northern section from Post Oak and 610 to the Northwest Transit Center. Though the path running parallel to the 610 feeder road provided better access, the park people opposed giving up a sliver of Memorial Park ROW. So, it appears the line will jump into the 610 median until Post Oak, where it will go underground (look, citkid, we have a subway!) and pop up in the Post Oak median.

The Uptown line is locally funded to federal specs, so it can be upgraded to LRT. Since it is locally funded, there is no reason to believe it will not be built. The difference between BRT and LRT is about $50 million.

Go to METRO's website, click on METRO Solutions, then click on Uptown Corridor for more info.

[Ethanra]

This new SLIDESHOWby metro shows all 4 lines will start construction in April '08.

[Trae]

The Uptown segment appears to have been decided as to allignment. Only 3 alternatives were debated, and every one of them went down the Post Oak median. The only debate was the northern section from Post Oak and 610 to the Northwest Transit Center. Though the path running parallel to the 610 feeder road provided better access, the park people opposed giving up a sliver of Memorial Park ROW. So, it appears the line will jump into the 610 median until Post Oak, where it will go underground (look, citkid, we have a subway!) and pop up in the Post Oak median.

The Uptown line is locally funded to federal specs, so it can be upgraded to LRT. Since it is locally funded, there is no reason to believe it will not be built. The difference between BRT and LRT is about $50 million.

Go to METRO's website, click on METRO Solutions, then click on Uptown Corridor for more info.

Yeah, a subway ! That would be cool if Uptown Park/those buildings on the right side of 610 had a subway station.

[MetroMogul]

Riding by TSU today I saw Wheeler St. was blanketed with signs stating the following "We say no to Metro." Looks like another battle may be brewing.

[Trae]

Why is there so much opposition?

[Transit Nut]

Riding by TSU today I saw Wheeler St. was blanketed with signs stating the following "We say no to Metro." Looks like another battle may be brewing.

Where exactly on Wheeler did you see these?

[MetroMogul]

Where exactly on Wheeler did you see these?

Wheeler @ Ennis and all the way towards 288.

[ricco67]

I was planning on doing this a month or so down the road on a week day, but with the closing of the bridge for 14 months, it was now or never. Good thing I didn't have any plans for sunday.

Once again, I had to deal with the A55 overheating issues, but I've gotten used to it. Once again, I used the polarizing filter that I used on the Richmond video. The interesting thing for me is how the signal lights looked. You will notice the difference, particularly on Main @ Cambridge.

Didn't really find a Dedicated "Red Line" discussion, so I threw it on here. If the mods want to move it, that would be cool.

[totheskies]

I'm very late to the discussion (like several years late), but I think that some of the past points need to be visited/re-visited.

Because Houston is so car-oriented, it makes our next steps for tranist difficult to achieve. We know some things are coming up soon though. 290 is about to be re-built because it is now unsafe to drive with the amount of traffic volumes that it handles every day... that's an emergency situation IMO.

I-45 in either direction (especially inside the Beltway) is also becoming a safety issue quickly. As a region we have to decide the best way to move forward with these places. I think for Houston, the best way is to do a combination of road expansion and BRT outside the loop, and focus on rail transit inside the loop. But real BRT with its own separate lanes and something that could be upgraded to rail in the future.

This system would be perfect for nodes like Memorial City or Greenspoint. Even connecting these places to the Red Line alone could be a profitable venture (we already do this during Rodeo time on a small scale). As diffused as our city is, there are a few activities that still draw people to the central city like sports events, the museum district and the medical center. Start with that, and promote the hell out of it.

[ricco67]

I'm very late to the discussion (like several years late), but I think that some of the past points need to be visited/re-visited.

Because Houston is so car-oriented, it makes our next steps for tranist difficult to achieve. We know some things are coming up soon though. 290 is about to be re-built because it is now unsafe to drive with the amount of traffic volumes that it handles every day... that's an emergency situation IMO.

I-45 in either direction (especially inside the Beltway) is also becoming a safety issue quickly. As a region we have to decide the best way to move forward with these places. I think for Houston, the best way is to do a combination of road expansion and BRT outside the loop, and focus on rail transit inside the loop. But real BRT with its own separate lanes and something that could be upgraded to rail in the future.

This system would be perfect for nodes like Memorial City or Greenspoint. Even connecting these places to the Red Line alone could be a profitable venture (we already do this during Rodeo time on a small scale). As diffused as our city is, there are a few activities that still draw people to the central city like sports events, the museum district and the medical center. Start with that, and promote the hell out of it.

I agree up to a point.

The problem is the same Houston had in the 60's. It is hard to tell what will develop in the future, but you also have NIMBY's that would raise all sorts of hell.

One "solution" might be is to let the current systems be completed along with their next phase and let them mature for a few years so people can see that they are asset and not a liability.

Perhaps in the future there would be radiating lines (BRT or LRT) at Greenspoint, Memorial, Greenway, Galleria, and Med center.

My biggest concern has been the red line capacity.

As it currently stands, it can barely handle everyday rush hour. Throw in special events (BBQ, Rodeo, WWF, Sports) and we're talking a sardine situation. Once the rest of the lines go active, I sincerely believe the Main street line will not be able to keep up, even with additional double trains.

The proposed rolling stock from Spain would have been a good starting point, but I wouldn't doubt that in less than 10 yrs, we will have to talk about getting bigger trains.