Trying to find land

[Shannon]

Hi! I am looking around for a residential lot on which I plan to have a custom home built. I'd like to build in the 288/South Loop area, or within a very easy driving distance from there, but I'm not having a lot of luck finding lots on HAR and the other usual suspects. Does anyone know of a realtor or other professional who might be able to help? I'm unsure of exactly how large the lot would have to be, but it would be less than half an acre and I wouldn't want to spend more than around $30K. I don't know if that's reasonable or not, but I'll see what I can find.

This is my first venture into home building or even home ownership, as I have always rented. I have an idea for a mid-century modern rectangular house with a central open courtyard/pool area. The house itself will be two bedrooms with a study and two and a half baths. Yes, I'm looking for recommendations on architects, too.

I am just in the planning/thinking stages now, but I do want to get moving on this. I don't know any architects or contractors, so recommendations and advice is welcome. I'm reading several books on the process and doing a lot of Internet research, but that only goes so far. If anyone has any pearls of wisdom for me, I would appreciate them!

Thanks,

Shannon

[jm1fd]

Hi! I am looking around for a residential lot on which I plan to have a custom home built. I'd like to build in the 288/South Loop area, or within a very easy driving distance from there, but I'm not having a lot of luck finding lots on HAR and the other usual suspects. Does anyone know of a realtor or other professional who might be able to help? I'm unsure of exactly how large the lot would have to be, but it would be less than half an acre and I wouldn't want to spend more than around $30K. I don't know if that's reasonable or not, but I'll see what I can find.

This is my first venture into home building or even home ownership, as I have always rented. I have an idea for a mid-century modern rectangular house with a central open courtyard/pool area. The house itself will be two bedrooms with a study and two and a half baths. Yes, I'm looking for recommendations on architects, too.

I am just in the planning/thinking stages now, but I do want to get moving on this. I don't know any architects or contractors, so recommendations and advice is welcome. I'm reading several books on the process and doing a lot of Internet research, but that only goes so far. If anyone has any pearls of wisdom for me, I would appreciate them!

Thanks,

Shannon

I'm entertaining the notion of doing the same thing myself, as well. However there isn't much in even halfway decent 'hoods to be had for $30k. There are a couple lots for sale on HAR in 77023 from 30-60k. There are some pretty cheap ones ($20k) in 77011 and 77012.

[TheNiche]

Hi! I am looking around for a residential lot on which I plan to have a custom home built. I'd like to build in the 288/South Loop area, or within a very easy driving distance from there, but I'm not having a lot of luck finding lots on HAR and the other usual suspects.

Can you better define the area that you're looking at? Boundaries would be helpful.

[Shannon]

Thanks, JM. I've been looking at houses for a couple of years, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm so picky I won't be happy with anything that is already built. Also, I like a lot of non-traditional stuff that you don't see very often, and I absolutely require a pool. I know the land is going to be more than I want to spend, but of course I want to pay as little as possible.

Niche, I work near Holly Hall and 288, and need to stay around that area because of work commitments. I'm willing to go east of 288 or south of the Loop if the neighborhoods are decent, as well as just about anywhere else within a 10-15 minute drive. I'm not jazzed about going south on 288 because of the traffic issues. I am cautious about neighborhoods, as I am a single woman who lives alone.

Again, if anyone has any recommendations on builders, contractors, real estate/land agents, or architects, I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!

[segovia]

Check out the MacGregor/Riverside Terrace/SouthLawn areas (77021). I have been watching the area over the years and it is quietly making a comeback. I used to live in the Holly Hall/288 area.

[jdbaker]

Check out the MacGregor/Riverside Terrace/SouthLawn areas (77021). I have been watching the area over the years and it is quietly making a comeback. I used to live in the Holly Hall/288 area.

That area is great, but you will not find a standard sized lot for $30,000. You are probably looking at a minimum of $75,000 for anything in the Riverside/Macgregor area. I'm assuming that you are targeting the area of the third ward that is East of 288 and North of OST. If this is the case, you will probably not find much under $15-$20 psf. So, if you need a 5000sf lot, $30,000 is probably not realistic, unless you are willing to deal with something south of OST.

[TheNiche]

That area is great, but you will not find a standard sized lot for $30,000. You are probably looking at a minimum of $75,000 for anything in the Riverside/Macgregor area. I'm assuming that you are targeting the area of the third ward that is East of 288 and North of OST. If this is the case, you will probably not find much under $15-$20 psf. So, if you need a 5000sf lot, $30,000 is probably not realistic, unless you are willing to deal with something south of OST.

Either that, or north of Alabama, deep in the heart of the 3rd Ward. That area has appreciation potential, though, so it is worth consideration. Personally, though, I'd check out the South Union area first, then go 3rd Ward before Sunnyside.

[TheNiche]

Niche, I work near Holly Hall and 288, and need to stay around that area because of work commitments. I'm willing to go east of 288 or south of the Loop if the neighborhoods are decent, as well as just about anywhere else within a 10-15 minute drive. I'm not jazzed about going south on 288 because of the traffic issues. I am cautious about neighborhoods, as I am a single woman who lives alone.

I've pulled a few listings for you. It seems like it's gotten almost impossible to get in anywhere in the 3rd Ward anymore. Prices have gone up, up, up since last I checked. The area around South Union is still cheap though, even though the demographics are better.

There's a 9740sf lot on Rebecca Street near Tierwester listed for $30k. The smaller corner lot is also listed, and it is for $18k.

There's also a 5000sf lot on Mainer Street between Springhill and Tierwester listed for $19,500. That one has really good access to 288 and 610, and is the street that becomes Holly Hall, so you don't even have to get on a freeway to get to work. It's also pretty visible, so you can show off your masterpiece.

There are also a couple of quarter-acre lots on Schroeder Street off of Griggs that are listed for $30,900 each. Schroeder is a dead-end street that is blocked by an elementary school. A couple streets down from that is Grace Street, on which a couple of architecture students built their tiny vertical home. Drop by. They'd probably love to share their experiences and show off their work.

If you don't mind going further east, you could try a lot on Fennel Street in old Harrisburg. 5212sf for $15k.

Also, how about a 5200sf lot at Moline and Lancaster, which is just off of Telephone Road near Dixie, for $27,500? Or another one on Moline that is 13,020sf for $32k?

[jm1fd]

There are also a couple of quarter-acre lots on Schroeder Street off of Griggs that are listed for $30,900 each. Schroeder is a dead-end street that is blocked by an elementary school. A couple streets down from that is Grace Street, on which a couple of architecture students built their tiny vertical home. Drop by. They'd probably love to share their experiences and show off their work.

Schroeder is in 77021. Grace appears to be in 77003. Or am I missing a Grace st in 77021?

I'll have to check out the vertical house in 77003 sometime (if that's where it is).

[TheNiche]

Schroeder is in 77021. Grace appears to be in 77003. Or am I missing a Grace st in 77021?

I'll have to check out the vertical house in 77003 sometime (if that's where it is).

77003 is just east of downtown. I'm not at all familiar with a Grace Street in that area.

[rps324]

There is a lot on W. Dallas for $44,900 in Woodleigh, which is the Eastwood area. Without seeing the block its on, I would venture to say that one might be worth stretching your budget a little. I don't think it would be as intimidating as deep into the 3rd ward. Plus you already have the new construction gentrification to the west of it, and Eastwood's upswing immediately east.

[jm1fd]

77003 is just east of downtown. I'm not at all familiar with a Grace Street in that area.

Grace St in 77003

I guess you meant Grace Ln. Dunno how I overlooked that!

[Shannon]

These are all great suggestions! I really appreciate everyone's help -- thanks so much!

[Guest danax]

I was going to suggest the Near Northside, which I think will be another townhome heaven/cool place to live ala Rice Military but.....I hadn't checked prices in awhile and they're out of your range now , expect ones on Hardy & Elysian but those are likely to be bought out for the Hardy Tollroad extension.

[TheNiche]

I was going to suggest the Near Northside, which I think will be another townhome heaven/cool place to live ala Rice Military but.....I hadn't checked prices in awhile and they're out of your range now , expect ones on Hardy & Elysian but those are likely to be bought out for the Hardy Tollroad extension.

It's too bad that there isn't a market for buying put options on vacant lots. There are several neighborhoods now for which prices are irrationally exhuberent over too large a land area. I'd make a killing on a three- or four-year contract.

[TAK]

It's too bad that there isn't a market for buying put options on vacant lots.

Good idea. Make it happen.

[Natty]

I've pulled a few listings for you. It seems like it's gotten almost impossible to get in anywhere in the 3rd Ward anymore. Prices have gone up, up, up since last I checked. The area around South Union is still cheap though, even though the demographics are better.

"The Niche" Just needing clarification. What do you mean the demographics are better? Third ward is by no means as bad as some of this board would like others to think. Alot of you have never been anywhere near the 3rd ward but because of your preconceived predudices continue to make derogatory comments about it. Maybe I'm being over sensitive. In reality I am sick and tired of the derogatory repetition. Don't get me wrong there are small pockets of the area that are suspect and we know there is crime in the area but tell me of an area that has no crime. We all know the real reason why certain people dislike the area.

I am in the process of renovating an expensive home in 3rd ward >$500000, there are many others doing the same. We love the neighborhood and are glad that people like you can not afford to live here.

This goes out to all who continue the negative commentary - live a little, broaden your horizons, open your mind, you might learn something.

[flipper]

What are the borders of the third ward?

flipper

"The Niche" Just needing clarification. What do you mean the demographics are better? Third ward is by no means as bad as some of this board would like others to think. Alot of you have never been anywhere near the 3rd ward but because of your preconceived predudices continue to make derogatory comments about it. Maybe I'm being over sensitive. In reality I am sick and tired of the derogatory repetition. Don't get me wrong there are small pockets of the area that are suspect and we know there is crime in the area but tell me of an area that has no crime. We all know the real reason why certain people dislike the area.

I am in the process of renovating an expensive home in 3rd ward >$500000, there are many others doing the same. We love the neighborhood and are glad that people like you can not afford to live here.

This goes out to all who continue the negative commentary - live a little, broaden your horizons, open your mind, you might learn something.

[jm1fd]

"The Niche" Just needing clarification. What do you mean the demographics are better? Third ward is by no means as bad as some of this board would like others to think. Alot of you have never been anywhere near the 3rd ward but because of your preconceived predudices continue to make derogatory comments about it. Maybe I'm being over sensitive. In reality I am sick and tired of the derogatory repetition. Don't get me wrong there are small pockets of the area that are suspect and we know there is crime in the area but tell me of an area that has no crime. We all know the real reason why certain people dislike the area.

I am in the process of renovating an expensive home in 3rd ward >$500000, there are many others doing the same. We love the neighborhood and are glad that people like you can not afford to live here.

This goes out to all who continue the negative commentary - live a little, broaden your horizons, open your mind, you might learn something.

Are we talking about the same 3rd ward here? I thought the 3rd ward (and all the other wards, for that matter) were primarily modest little homes built around or before the turn of the century. That doesn't mesh too well with the description of renovating an expensive 1/2 million dollar house. You're not expanding the boundaries of the 3rd ward because of race are you? Why that would be racist.

What are the borders of the third ward?

Well...according to this, most of downtown, midtown, parts of the east end, and various other places are in the 3rd ward. While I think they have the general vicinity right (southeast of downtown), I think they might've gotten a little overzealous with the shading.

Here's another description and another which happens to mention the 3rd ward as "being the most desperate ghettos of Houston"

Edited January 7, 2007 by jm1fd

[Natty]

Paste this link and you will get an idea of where third ward starts and ends http://www.houstoncl.com/3rdward/3rdward.htm

Take a drive down S. Macgregor toward UH all that area is 3rd ward.

[Natty]

Are we talking about the same 3rd ward here? I thought the 3rd ward (and all the other wards, for that matter) were primarily modest little homes built around or before the turn of the century. That doesn't mesh too well with the description of renovating an expensive 1/2 million dollar house. You're not expanding the boundaries of the 3rd ward because of race are you? Why that would be racist.

Exactly what mean I mean. If you knew 3rd ward you would not have made the above comments. Other HAIFers would also be more educated in their comments too!

[jm1fd]

Are we talking about the same 3rd ward here? I thought the 3rd ward (and all the other wards, for that matter) were primarily modest little homes built around or before the turn of the century. That doesn't mesh too well with the description of renovating an expensive 1/2 million dollar house. You're not expanding the boundaries of the 3rd ward because of race are you? Why that would be racist.

Exactly what mean I mean. If you knew 3rd ward you would not have made the above comments. Other HAIFers would also be more educated in their comments too!

Well then...by all means...educate us! Where did I go wrong in the above statement?

[Natty]

Here's another description and another which happens to mention the 3rd ward as "being the most desperate ghettos of Houston"

You are kidding me right !?! people on this board get their information about a neighborhood from Wikipedia a free online enclyclopedia.

Why don't you take a drive around the neighborhood? I promise you there is nothing better than seeing for yourself. You will be safe, the boogie men don't come out till dark.......

[jm1fd]

You are kidding me right !?! people on this board get their information about a neighborhood from Wikipedia a free online enclyclopedia.

Why don't you take a drive around the neighborhood? I promise you there is nothing better than seeing for yourself. You will be safe, the boogie men don't come out till dark.......

I actually cited MULTIPLE sources. Can you provide better ones? Heretofore, all you've done on this thread is piss and delicate flower about how we're wrong. Problem is...that's all you've done....we're mostly reasonable people...provide us with some counterexamples.

I have driven through the 3rd ward as well as Washington Terrace and Riverside Terrace.

Edited January 7, 2007 by jm1fd

[Guest danax]

You are kidding me right !?! people on this board get their information about a neighborhood from Wikipedia a free online enclyclopedia.

Why don't you take a drive around the neighborhood? I promise you there is nothing better than seeing for yourself. You will be safe, the boogie men don't come out till dark.......

You're right that most here haven't spent more than the time it takes to drive through 3rd Ward so we really don't know how it really is there plus, we really don't have much representation from that area on this board, so it's nice to have you. But it's not necessarily racist for people who don't know what 3rd Ward is really like in 2007 to assume that crime would be relatively higher there than in other parts of the city. Not knowing firsthand leaves one relying on statistics and anecdotes and statistically, black still usually means higher crime. Another HAIF contributor who lives nearby, Original Timmy Chan's, has also stated that the area's crime is overestimated and now you're helping to set the record straight too.

As you mentioned, the ironic thing about that is that once people lose their fear of the area then, as Garnet Coleman said, "they" will start moving in.

[Natty]

I actually cited MULTIPLE sources. Can you provide better ones? Heretofore, all you've done on this thread is piss and delicate flower about how we're wrong. Problem is...that's all you've done....we're mostly reasonable people...provide us with some counterexamples.

I have driven through the 3rd ward as well as Washington Terrace and Riverside Terrace.

I don't think I've in your words "piss and delicate flower" thru this thread. Each to his own interpretation. I'm not sure what counter examples you want. All I'm asking for is accurate information without the personal prejudices when reponding to questions.

To be fair you did include the TSU reference, and I must congratulate you for having made and survived the trip thru 3rd ward.

[TheNiche]

"The Niche" Just needing clarification. What do you mean the demographics are better?

Higher average household income and, in most places, less population density. The worst place that anybody can live is in a place surrounded by lots and lots of poor people. If you doubt me, check out the southwest side.

Alot of you have never been anywhere near the 3rd ward but because of your preconceived predudices continue to make derogatory comments about it. Maybe I'm being over sensitive. In reality I am sick and tired of the derogatory repetition. Don't get me wrong there are small pockets of the area that are suspect and we know there is crime in the area but tell me of an area that has no crime. We all know the real reason why certain people dislike the area.

Oh, I've been in the 3rd Ward. I was a student at UH for several years and drove through about four times a week. I tried unsucessfully to get a lot on Bastrop Street a few blocks south of Drexler's BBQ. The views would've been protected by church property, but that didn't work out due to some legal problems. Nothing like a forged signature to ruin your day, eh? More recently, I've worked professionally on several proposed developments in the general area...this is how I got a hold of the demographics. And if you were insinuated some sort of a racial bias, as I think you were, then let it be known that I dated a black girl that grew up in the 3rd Ward for a couple years. Is my name cleared yet?

I am in the process of renovating an expensive home in 3rd ward >$500000, there are many others doing the same. We love the neighborhood and are glad that people like you can not afford to live here.

This goes out to all who continue the negative commentary - live a little, broaden your horizons, open your mind, you might learn something.

If you're working on a home south of Alabama, then I personally don't consider it 3rd Ward. It's part of the "Greater 3rd Ward" in my mind, which extends down to Sunnyside, but that's a pretty diverse cross-section of neighborhoods. I'd consider you in the MacGregor/Riverside/Washington Terrace area. And that is a genuinely nice area.

EDIT: By the way, is the City of Houston a reliable enough source for you? They define the Greater 3rd Ward Super Neighborhood as shown at the website linked to below. Their definition seems to be different from mine and other people's, but it still seems to support those opposed to your reaction to an otherwise-innocuous comment.

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/suprnbhd...use/sn67lu.html

Edited January 8, 2007 by TheNiche

[Natty]

You're right that most here haven't spent more than the time it takes to drive through 3rd Ward so we really don't know how it really is there plus, we really don't have much representation from that area on this board, so it's nice to have you. But it's not necessarily racist for people who don't know what 3rd Ward is really like in 2007 to assume that crime would be relatively higher there than in other parts of the city. Not knowing firsthand leaves one relying on statistics and anecdotes and statistically, black still usually means higher crime. Another HAIF contributor who lives nearby, Original Timmy Chan's, has also stated that the area's crime is overestimated and now you're helping to set the record straight too.

As you mentioned, the ironic thing about that is that once people lose their fear of the area then, as Garnet Coleman said, "they" will start moving in.

Please note I have called noone racist, all I was asking for was clarification. I do however think it is wrong to perpetuate wrong information based on preconceived prejudices. I agree with you more representation is needed on this board. Not sure it will change the deeply entrenched beliefs people have.

[Shannon]

Natty, I understand your frustration with people who may lump all of the Third Ward into "the ghetto," but I think what started all of this might have been my request for information on land in the general area, taking into account that I am a single woman who lives alone and who has to be cognizent of my own safety.

There are a lot of beautiful houses in the North and South McGregor areas, and I wish I could afford to live there, but there are also some really, really scary places just a street or two over. I think what you read and have taken issue with was someone who was trying to help me and who was aware of my single status.

Like many neighborhoods in Houston, the Third Ward is a place where you can have a crack house three doors down from a mansion. My challenge is to find an affordable space, close to my work, and in a safe neighborhood. Everyone on this board has been very helpful, and I don't think anyone meant to slam the Third Ward or anything. I hope this helps clear things up a little.

Thanks,

Shannon

[rps324]

Please note I have called noone racist, all I was asking for was clarification. I do however think it is wrong to perpetuate wrong information based on preconceived prejudices. I agree with you more representation is needed on this board. Not sure it will change the deeply entrenched beliefs people have.

For many people when you say third ward, they think of the area along Elgin, not Macgregor. Many make a name distinction between the Riverside communities and the small third ward houses north of Alabama, (and many do not).