Imams kicked off US Airways flight

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

U.S. Muslims outraged after imams kicked off plane

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Muslim leaders expressed outrage on Tuesday after six imams were removed from a commercial airline flight in Minnesota for what they said was nothing more than trying to say evening prayers.

"They were treated like terrorists ... humiliated," said Abu Hannoud, civil rights director for the Arizona chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, who said the men were taken off the US Airways flight in handcuffs.

He said the men were still trying to find a flight back to Phoenix where most are affiliated with a major mosque after the carrier refused them passage following the incident on Monday evening.

"We are concerned that crew members, passengers and security personnel may have succumbed to fear and prejudice based on stereotyping of Muslims and Islam," added Nihad Awad, executive director of the council, in a statement from the group's Washington headquarters.

"We call on relevant authorities to investigate whether proper procedures were followed by security personnel and members of the US Airways flight crew," he said.

The group said the men told it they were accused of "suspicious activity," which they believed was only their attempt to pray.

Hannoud said in an interview that the men had been attending a three-day meeting of the North American Imams Federation in the Minneapolis area "discussing how to build bridges" between Muslims and American society, and that the FBI and local police had been informed in advance about the meeting.

"They were rewarded by being treated like terrorists," he said. "Their humiliation is really a humiliation for the entire Muslim community," he added, and further proof that Islam phobia is a growing problem in the United States.

Patrick Hogan, spokesman for the Minneapolis-St. Paul Metropolitan Airports Commission, said the airline asked airport police to remove the six men from the Minneapolis to Phoenix flight because their actions were "arousing some concerns" among both passengers and crew.

He said the men had been praying at the gate area but he did not know if they tried to pray once at their seats inside the plane.

He also said some witnesses reported the men were making anti-American statements involving the Iraq war, asked to change seats once inside the cabin, that one requested an extender to make his seat belt larger even though he did not appear to need it and that in general "there was some peculiar behavior."

US Airways issued a statement saying it was "diligently conducting our own investigation ... We are debriefing crew members and ground personnel as well as working with law enforcement."

The carrier said it is "always concerned when passengers are inconvenienced and especially concerned when a situation occurs that causes customers to feel their dignity was compromised. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind and will continue to exhaust our internal investigation until we know the facts of this case."

more here http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061121/ts_nm/religion_imams_dc

[editor]

I wonder if they tried to pray on the plane. Some Middle Eastern airlines have a place in the back of the cabin where people can lay out their prayer mats together. I bet a handful of guys gathering in the back of the cabin unrolling their mats would freak out the stewardesses/air hostessts/cabin crew.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I wonder if they tried to pray on the plane. Some Middle Eastern airlines have a place in the back of the cabin where people can lay out their prayer mats together. I bet a handful of guys gathering in the back of the cabin unrolling their mats would freak out the stewardesses/air hostessts/cabin crew.

From what i have read, that seems to be the case.

I was on a US Airways flight back in 2003 from PHL-MAN. Completely full as almost usual and there were several Muslim males on the flight, no problem. After we got airbourne and had been flying for maybe 3 hours, these men got up and started going to different areas of the airplane. The doors and the galleys. This is an evening flight with the lights on dim. The actions apparently unnerved the economy class passengers and some passengers in the envoy class section of the plane near the mid galley. Result, the lights were turned on full bright and there was a reaction from the flight attendants like i have never seen before!! They got together and tried to get these guys to go back to thier seats and also some of the flight attendants went throughout the cabin and got the biggest guys they could find-yours truely included- to assist them with helping to get these men to return to thier seats. When i saw what they were attempting to do, i explained to the F/A that they were about to pray and that they were crowding on the side of the plane that faced east. This wasnt good enough as she explained, if these guys dont sit down right now, we will be diverting and met by military jets, for we are concerned with the safety of this plane and its passengers first. There were probably about 14 of these young men total and maybe 20 of us male passengers along with 14 flight attendants. The men returned quickly to thier seats without incident. It made me feel bad because i understood what was happening. I also understand the reaction from the passengers after the events of 9/11. Kind of a rock and a hard place :(

I stayed behind after we arrived in Manchester, England to see if the crew needed me and some of the other guys to write a letter or anything, and they said no. I then asked how they were able to get the situation under such control so fast and the response shocked me. The lead F/A informed me that that particular crew mostly fly together a lot and that during the boarding process they size up the larger males and the general area they are seated in so they can go get them if needed in an emergency situation. What a sign of the times!

[Jeebus]

I wonder if they tried to pray on the plane. Some Middle Eastern airlines have a place in the back of the cabin where people can lay out their prayer mats together. I bet a handful of guys gathering in the back of the cabin unrolling their mats would freak out the stewardesses/air hostessts/cabin crew.

It would freak me out.

[editor]

I don't know what the solution is.

I understand that they have to pray in flight.

But I also understand the concern among the others.

I don't have a solution other than suggesting that some imam somewhere declare it OK for them to pray from their seats. While I think the prayer is mildly worrying, it's the getting up en masse that I think really bothers people.

[west20th]

I understand that they have to pray in flight.

I'm not at all familiar w/Muslim doctrine but isn't silent prayer acceptable?

[MidtownCoog]

Reports are starting coming out that Iman Ahmed Shqeirat is affilated with the Holy Land Foundation - a banned organiztion who supports terrorism and has funneled money to Hammas and Al Queda.

People in Dallas should remember this organization in Grapevine in 2001.

And to call him a Muslim scholar is a joke. I'd sure like to see his transcript.

If he's a scholar so am I.

[nmm]

I remember when Cat Stevens was banned from America. They never let him step foot off the airport.

I dont know much about these guys. However i wouldnt attempt to pray on a NonMuslim Aircraft because people get scared.

If it is indeed so important to pray, the following Airlines would have been great:

Emirates

Pakistan International Airlines

Gulf Air

Egypt Air

Turkish Airlines

Royal Jordanian Airlines

and many more . . . . .

They accomadate prayer, and no one freaks out.

[VicMan]

I remember when Cat Stevens was banned from America. They never let him step foot off the airport.

I dont know much about these guys. However i wouldnt attempt to pray on a NonMuslim Aircraft because people get scared.

If it is indeed so important to pray, the following Airlines would have been great:

Emirates

Pakistan International Airlines

Gulf Air

Egypt Air

Turkish Airlines

Royal Jordanian Airlines

and many more . . . . .

They accomadate prayer, and no one freaks out.

Uhm, but it's not possible to get a Houston to Dallas flight on any of these carriers.

U.S. airlines MUST allow Muslim prayer. BUT, at the same time, I have little sympathy for the people who backed the Holy Land Foundation.

[nmm]

Yeah, well, if i was smart, i wouldnt book a flight whose timings conflicted with prayer timings in the first place.

I mean, being raised in the USA, ive prayed many places. You name it, ive prayed there. Besides the 60+ Masjids in the Greater Houston area:

McDonalds Parking lot

New Jersey Turnpike

off of I-45

Memorial City Mall

University of Houston AD Bruce Relgion Center

University of Houston MD Anderson Library

Taco Bell

Memorial High School

Stephen F Austin High School

Westheimer and Dunvale's Walmart Shopping Lot

Any dumbass knows to preplan your day for prayer. And any genius with an iota of intelligence knows not to pray on a plane filled with Americans post 9/11.

If its a political statement your trying to make, then expect politics to get in the way. Otherwise plan wisely.

[VicMan]

Yeah, well, if i was smart, i wouldnt book a flight whose timings conflicted with prayer timings in the first place.

I mean, being raised in the USA, ive prayed many places. You name it, ive prayed there. Besides the 60+ Masjids in the Greater Houston area:

McDonalds Parking lot

New Jersey Turnpike

off of I-45

Memorial City Mall

University of Houston AD Bruce Relgion Center

University of Houston MD Anderson Library

Taco Bell

Memorial High School

Stephen F Austin High School

Westheimer and Dunvale's Walmart Shopping Lot

Any dumbass knows to preplan your day for prayer. And any genius with an iota of intelligence knows not to pray on a plane filled with Americans post 9/11.

If its a political statement your trying to make, then expect politics to get in the way. Otherwise plan wisely.

While it's true that one should pre-plan his or her day to avoid noon prayer, that's not always possible. Connecting flights and really long flights may make avoiding prayer time in-flight impossible.

HOWEVER, it is a good idea to let the airline know ahead of time about your noon prayer habits and what they involve so that the airline can notify passengers about your habits. That way, the people on the plane are not too surprised to see Muslims praying.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

HOWEVER, it is a good idea to let the airline know ahead of time about your noon prayer habits and what they involve so that the airline can notify passengers about your habits. That way, the people on the plane are not too surprised to see Muslims praying.

I dont see that happening. I can see them possibly hanging up on someone that calls with something like that

I am familiar with the praying on planes by both Muslims and Jews. I have seen it on US carriers as well as El Al. I think the trouble starts when theres a large number of people doing it all at once. People unfamiliar with the practice will be non too happy to see it occur especially since 9-11. And to speak on 9-11, i have seen the onbaord prayers more now after 9-11 than before. The difference with El Al and other carriers is, you had better do as you are asked to do the first time or you are liable to get the hell beaten out of you by the crew or there secret forces onboard

[MidtownCoog]

Have y'all ever heard of "Contract of Carriage"?

That's the contract betweent the public and air carriers. I think it's FAR Sec. 141.

An aircraft is not a public place. Here is the link to Delta's:

http://www.delta.com/legal/contract_of_carriage/index.jsp

Every US Airline has their own, and when you buy your ticket you enter into this "contract".

[VicMan]

I dont see that happening. I can see them possibly hanging up on someone that calls with something like that

I am familiar with the praying on planes by both Muslims and Jews. I have seen it on US carriers as well as El Al. I think the trouble starts when theres a large number of people doing it all at once. People unfamiliar with the practice will be non too happy to see it occur especially since 9-11. And to speak on 9-11, i have seen the onbaord prayers more now after 9-11 than before. The difference with El Al and other carriers is, you had better do as you are asked to do the first time or you are liable to get the hell beaten out of you by the crew or there secret forces onboard

I don't see why the airlines should hang up - The airline should know that Muslims pray en masse at noon. The Muslims, though, should ask beforehand about praying at noon in-flight and notify the airline and its passengers beforehand so that the passengers are not surprised.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I don't see why the airlines should hang up - The airline should know that Muslims pray en masse at noon. The Muslims, though, should ask beforehand about praying at noon in-flight and notify the airline and its passengers beforehand so that the passengers are not surprised.

Hold now VicMan, they wont hangup until after authorizing your credit card

The will not do as you suggest because theres really no reason for or i should say profit in doing it. The days of "special perks" are coming to a swift halt for all but the most frequent of air travelers and they too are feeling the affects.

[houstonmacbro]

i am not entirely certain of muslim prayer doctrine, but i do know i have seen them use prayer mats and kneeling (towards the east?) ... but, i agree with an earlier question. in situations like this, can't a person (of muslim faith) just pray silently?

if i want to pray, i can do it any time (in a crowd, on a bus, on a plane) by just going inside myself (that sounded weird...) and praying silently to my God.

can those of the muslim faith do the same? or do they have to go through the whole 'ritual' for it to be considered 'prayer'?

(**i am not trying to be funny ... i am serious in my questions and do not mean to offend anyone of any faith or belief**)

[editor]

I remember when Cat Stevens was banned from America. They never let him step foot off the airport.

I dont know much about these guys. However i wouldnt attempt to pray on a NonMuslim Aircraft because people get scared.

If it is indeed so important to pray, the following Airlines would have been great:

Emirates

Pakistan International Airlines

Gulf Air

Egypt Air

Turkish Airlines

Royal Jordanian Airlines

and many more . . . . .

They accomadate prayer, and no one freaks out.

None of those airlines serve Minneapolis, which is where the incident happened.

But the more I think about it, the more it seems like a set-up -- like they did it deliberately to make a point. After all, they managed to fly TO Minneapolis just fine. It was only after their conference that they were (presumably) all fired up and ready to make a scene.

This group says that Americans should be more tolerant. Maybe they should be more tolerant of the rest of America. While I know that many Muslims (though none of the ones I work with) choose to pray five times a day on a little rug facing Mecca, I don't think everyone does. And I don't think it's reasonable to expect every person in the country to know every little detail of every religion of every person they might encounter in a day and then make accommodations for all of those people.

In life you have a responsibility to behave in a non-disruptive manner. It used to be called "common courtesy." But now that we're deep into the "entitlement generation" where people think the world owes them something, we're seeing more and more people act in anti-social ways.

[VicMan]

This group says that Americans should be more tolerant. Maybe they should be more tolerant of the rest of America. While I know that many Muslims (though none of the ones I work with) choose to pray five times a day on a little rug facing Mecca, I don't think everyone does. And I don't think it's reasonable to expect every person in the country to know every little detail of every religion of every person they might encounter in a day and then make accommodations for all of those people.

In life you have a responsibility to behave in a non-disruptive manner. It used to be called "common courtesy." But now that we're deep into the "entitlement generation" where people think the world owes them something, we're seeing more and more people act in anti-social ways.

Agree with editor - While I do believe the Muslim pax should pray, again, the passengers should have notified the airline ahead of time as to avoid making a scene.

[Jeebus]

But the more I think about it, the more it seems like a set-up -- like they did it deliberately to make a point. After all, they managed to fly TO Minneapolis just fine. It was only after their conference that they were (presumably) all fired up and ready to make a scene.

Excellent point.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Saw a little bit more on CNN earlier. They are following the story and interviewed one of the Imams, apparently theres more to the story.....

Have to stay tuned. Some funny stuff was going on, didnt seem sinister but was odd non the less.

[MidtownCoog]

Word on the street this was higly orchestraed PR stunt to advance the 12th Century Muslim agenda.

[Guest Marty]

Word on the street this was higly orchestraed PR stunt to advance the 12th Century Muslim agenda.

It's about time somebody woke up, i been telling my friends the last day or two that this was a dry run.

[VicMan]

It's about time somebody woke up, i been telling my friends the last day or two that this was a dry run.

A dry run for what?

[Guest Marty]

A dry run for what?

911 part 2 Vic, what did you think i was talking about ???

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

911 part 2 Vic, what did you think i was talking about ???

Nah, i doubt it. Something like that happens again, Bush would be hard pressed to not go more extreme in the US response.

[Guest Marty]

Nah, i doubt it. Something like that happens again, Bush would be hard pressed to not go more extreme in the US response.

You and VicMan don't know what the hell you are talking about. Do some research on the subject. please

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

You and VicMan don't know what the hell you are talking about. Do some research on the subject. please

????? Im not following.........

[Guest Marty]

????? Im not following.........

See that's what I'm talking about, short attention spans

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

See that's what I'm talking about, short attention spans

I know, my attention span is out the freakin window-------im smelling too much good cooking from the kitchen to focus!!!!!

Need to shut the darn door

[Guest Marty]

Dreaming about thanksgiving dinner gots my brain squirrely Moonman, sorry