Houston In World War 2

[Vertigo58]

Mom said you couldn't buy panty hose. Stores would not stock as they were needed for Parachutes, etc. Not until after 1945 could you buy or was it available.

Maybe thats why young ladies & teenyboppers were often called bobby soxers.

Listening to to these ladies help lift everyones spirits in those days and of course the big band sounds.

I was amazed to see this on wiki:

The Andrews Sisters became the best-selling female vocal group in the history of popular music, setting records that remain unsurpassed today.

[Alpha]

Mom said you couldn't buy panty hose.

LOL - Panty hose weren't around until the mid 60s. People wore silk stockings. I'm not sure when nylon came out.

[WestUNative]

The primary rationed items I remember were meat, sugar, rubber (could not buy tires, only patch them), all leather goods, cars, gasoline and real coffee. As I discussed earlier in this thread, everyone in the family would save their sugar coupons for a whole year and that would enable us to bake one birthday cake to celebrate them all, whenever they fell. Also, vivid memories of standing in long lines for eons to get whatever meat the market happened to have, generally not good stuff. Mostly we ate eggs and/or Spam for dinner, yuk, although in the UK they had few fresh eggs.

Stockings! Here is the lowdown on that. Pantyhose did not exist until the 1960's. Silk or silk/cotton stockings, with seams down the back were worn by the upper crust; plain cotton, then rayon by the plebs. Queen Elizabeth I was first to have pure silk stockings! By the 1920 and through the '30s, rayon was the most common material, but nylons came into use by the 1940's. That fibre too was rationed for some reason, though I understand only the forbidden silk was actually used for parachutes.

Otherwise prim and proper ladies had to go barelegged or wear socks, which look like crap with high heels. Bobbiesoxers, I think started in the '30s, but were the thing through the war and after. The only shoes I got during the war were leather Huraches from Mexico, all that you could buy. They squeaked loudly and smelled awful when wet. That is when we began to believe the stories about them being tanned in urine.

By the end of the war, we tried to make a trip of about 200 miles out of Houston. On the return journey, you won't believe, but is true, our poor, ancient patched tires graced us with 5 flats total. I was 4 at the time and thought, truly, that we would never get back home.

Later, when I met some war brides from England, I found out our little inconviences were as nothing compared to what the Brits went through, not only the Blitz, but real deprivation of just about everything and very little food of any kind.

[Vertigo58]

LOL - Panty hose weren't around until the mid 60s. People wore silk stockings. I'm not sure when nylon came out.

That's what I meant. I asked mom yesterday and she said, I said silk stockings! My err.

The silk was used for the parachutes.

[Vertigo58]

By the end of the war, we tried to make a trip of about 200 miles out of Houston. On the return journey, you won't believe, but is true, our poor, ancient patched tires graced us with 5 flats total. I was 4 at the time and thought, truly, that we would never get back home.

Later, when I met some war brides from England, I found out our little inconviences were as nothing compared to what the Brits went through, not only the Blitz, but real deprivation of just about everything and very little food of any kind.

Guess we would have to start a whole new topic on stories of the war. I had mentioned briefly in another subject of coworkers my mom worked with after the war. Like how they ended up in Houston and what they experienced while fleeing Nazi occupation. She knew 2 sisters that married GI's and fled to US to escape persecution and they lost their parents/brothers & sisters in the concentration camps. Our city was actually becoming quite diverse a long time ago. Most Houstonians think it is only recent but my mom worked with Jewish and Polish/Italian girls that fled Europe and found refuge here and all over US just in time or immediately after the war ended. There was a Tailor Shop on Main street called Bond's Tailor's. This is one of the places my mom became friends with many of these skilled workers from Europe. Bond's provided hand made suits for local business men and everyone there had to dress sharp. Downtown was the center of activity as we all know. Very metropolitan. I always wondered what became of all those ladies. They had some shocking stories to tell of what they went through. No one here could believe how bad things were becoming overseas during these years.

[FilioScotia]

Two weekends from now, on September 1st and 2nd, Old Town Spring will host its second annual World War Two Weekend. They'll have all sorts of military memorabilia and hardware on display, and I've been told that their special guest will be a man named Bob Jackson, who claims he was a WWII "flying ace", a member of the famous Flying Tigers, and a member of Doolittle's Raiders.

That's what the press release from Old Town Spring's PR lady says, but I am skeptical of this man's claims. Very skeptical.

An "ace", as you know, is a fighter pilot with at least five kills. I Googled up a complete list of ALL WWII aces, from all countries, all sides, and his name isn't on it. Strike 1.

Then I found a website with names and pictures of all the bomber crews who flew the Doolittle Raid on Japan in April of 1942. This man's name and photo are nowhere to be found on that website. Strike 2.

I can't find a list of the Flying Tiger pilots, but based on what I know of their history, they didn't even start flying until after Pearl Harbor in December of 41. Even then they only flew for about a year before the US Army Air Corps took over what they were doing to defend China from the Japanese. It's likely that some of the Tigers just started flying for the Army Air Corps, but that was long after the Doolittle Raid.

For this man's claims to be true, he would have been flying with Doolittle's Raiders and with the Flying Tigers in approximately the same time frame, which is highly unlikely to say the least, in my opinion.

The Doolittle crews landed and crashed in China after bombing Japan, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility that some of the surviving pilots and crewmen could have come into contact with the Flying Tigers. But how likely is it that one of them would have stayed in China to fly with the Tigers? Not very, I say.

General Clair Chennault's Flying Tigers were basically mercenaries under contract to the government of Nationalist China, with the full approval and support of the US government. Doolittle and his bomber crews were Army Air Corps regulars. Two very different groups of people, and while it's not impossible that a man could have flown in both organizations, I say it's highly improbable.

Opinions anyone?

[Gary]

Sounds bogus to me.

My grandfather had 4 kills while flying p-47's and later 51's. Funny thing is that he could have had number 5 at the end of the war. A German pilot was fleeing from an airbase somewhere around Stockholm, and my Grandfather caught up to him (flying a 51), and signaled for him to land, which the German pilot did. I always thought... Now that's a secure man. He could have achieved his ace by killing a lame duck but decided to spare the guy. I actually have photos of the pilot as my grandfather made the guy pose for pics while sitting on the wing next to the cockpit. The German pilot does not look happy.

[ricco67]

it would only depend on what capacity would it be even remotely possible, and it's VERY improbable.

If you were a flying tiger before the war started as a pilot, it would be highly unlikely you would be a bomber pilot. The training is too exhaustive, unless he took on a role as a gunner, which again, is highly unlikely.

The reverse is also true. A gunner can't be a fighter pilot, but he COULD be a mechanic. A pilot of a bomber can't be a pilot of a fighter unless he's trained for it. He can't be trained in china, they just didn't have time for such a thing. The training is just too different and the transition would have been highly unlikely.

In my search, I couldn't find anything on a variety of sites.

[Gary]

.

The reverse is also true. A gunner can't be a fighter pilot, but he COULD be a mechanic. A pilot of a bomber can't be a pilot of a fighter unless he's trained for it. He can't be trained in china, they just didn't have time for such a thing. The training is just too different and the transition would have been highly unlikely.

I don't know about that. My grandfather has mentioned over the years that from about 1943 through 45, pilots were trained very quickly, and as a result were under qualified to fly. Not that this guy is being truthfull, but they were training our boys pretty quick.

[ricco67]

But that was during 43-45.

We're talking 39-june'42.

The pilots of that particular time went through a pretty thorough training regimen.

[TheNiche]

I don't know about that. My grandfather has mentioned over the years that from about 1943 through 45, pilots were trained very quickly, and as a result were under qualified to fly. Not that this guy is being truthfull, but they were training our boys pretty quick.

This is true. My grandfather was trained to be a B-17 pilot even though he had dislexia. The Army arranged to school him with a 4-year degree in the span of 18 months that was concurrent to his flight training in order to qualify as an officer.

He was all set to drop some bombs on the Japanese; then two bombs ended the war and that was that.

[gonzo1976]

Here's a list of Flying Tiger pilots. Didn't see a Jackson listed.

[FilioScotia]

Here's a list of Flying Tiger pilots. Didn't see a Jackson listed.

Strike 3.

Using resources available on the Internet, we have learned that Bob Jackson's name is not on the list of WWII aces.

You won't find his name on the list of Doolittle Raid crewmembers, and he's not on the list of the Flying Tigers.

Then again, that's not a complete list of the Tigers. Robert L. Scott, the most famous of the Tigers, isn't on it either. Scott wrote of his experiences in the book God is My CoPilot. He died in Georgia just last year.

I just read that history of the Tigers a little more closely and learned that they flew for a total of seven months -- from December 41 to July 42. The Doolittle Raid was in April of 42. I just don't think it's possible that a man could have done both.

I'm not willing to state flatly that Bob Jackson is a phony, but I will say he has some explaining to do. This is one of those things I would dearly love to be wrong about. Please someone -- prove me wrong.

[ricco67]

Nope. you're going to have to talk to a veteran's officer and they'll take the action. it's against the law to pose as a member of the military.

[Gary]

Nope. you're going to have to talk to a veteran's officer and they'll take the action. it's against the law to pose as a member of the military.

We don't know that he wasn't in the military.

[ricco67]

Doesn't matter. Still falls under their jurisdiction. Just inform them and they'll have a nice little chat with him.

[FilioScotia]

Doesn't matter. Still falls under their jurisdiction. Just inform them and they'll have a nice little chat with him.

I'm beginning to feel a little guilty about even bringing this up, because this guy must be at least 90 years old, and maybe older.

I'm inclined to let the old boy enjoy being in the spotlight, even though there's a good chance that he's making up at least some of his story.

Besides, at his age, he may really believe his stories. I've read that there is a point in the aging process where real memories and wishful fantasies become indistinguishable.

He's not hurting anybody, but if he were 40 or 50 years younger, I'd turn him in.

[57Tbird]

Two weekends from now, on September 1st and 2nd, Old Town Spring will host its second annual World War Two Weekend. They'll have all sorts of military memorabilia and hardware on display, and I've been told that their special guest will be a man named Bob Jackson, who claims he was a WWII "flying ace", a member of the famous Flying Tigers, and a member of Doolittle's Raiders.

That's what the press release from Old Town Spring's PR lady says, but I am skeptical of this man's claims. Very skeptical.

Just a thought here. Do we actually know this is what Bob Jackson claims to be, or, as in many cases, this is what a PR person claims him to be? Could be just so much hype to increase attendance. Maybe someone from the area could go to this event and have a talk with Mr. Jackson and determine the facts.

[FilioScotia]

Just a thought here. Do we actually know this is what Bob Jackson claims to be, or, as in many cases, this is what a PR person claims him to be? Could be just so much hype to increase attendance. Maybe someone from the area could go to this event and have a talk with Mr. Jackson and determine the facts.

I got that information from the press release faxed around town by a PR person inviting media coverage of the World War Two Weekend in Old Town Spring.

She's the one who identified Jackson as a WWII "Flying Ace", and a member of the Flying Tigers and Doolittle's Raiders, and offered to set up interviews for media interested in meeting him. I'm assuming that was the information she was given.

[ricco67]

Well you could also think about it as a con artist. Some of these speakers make a good living with their fees.

I say just verify the info with the military. They keep records of EVERYBODY, including hose with a significant battles on their chest.

[Reefmonkey]

The Army arranged to school him with a 4-year degree in the span of 18 months that was concurrent to his flight training in order to qualify as an officer.

They didn't actually give people a four year degree in 18 months. Now the military requires a 4 year degree to be an officer, but during the war, when having gone to college was not as common, and the military needed people to fill officer positions, especially pilots, they put them through OCS as 90 day wonders. If you had the IQ and the other attributes to fill the officer role they needed, you could be commissioned, but you didn't come out with a college degree, just basic, officer training, and your specialty training.

For single place pursuit planes (fighters), the Army Air Force would sometimes make a pilot without a college degree a flying sergeant, and possibly a Flight Officer, a type of Warrant Officer, and it was possible to become commissioned as well.

[FilioScotia]

They didn't actually give people a four year degree in 18 months. Now the military requires a 4 year degree to be an officer, but during the war, when having gone to college was not as common, and the military needed people to fill officer positions, especially pilots, they put them through OCS as 90 day wonders.

Huge numbers of men went into flight training during WWII right out of high school. Some had some college, but most didn't.

That was a time when only those who could afford it went to college. Scholarships didn't grow on trees the way they do today, and student loans hadn't been invented.

One of the youngest pilots of the war was George H.W. Bush, who was flying a Navy torpedo bomber in the Pacific in 1943 at the age of 19. In fact, the Navy says at that time, Bush WAS the youngest pilot. A year later his plane was shot down and a submarine fished him out of the drink.

It's awesome to think that many of the pilots who flew the fighters and bombers in Europe and the Pacific were in their early 20s, and only a few of them had been to college. Men grew up in a hurry in those days.

[RedScare]

They didn't actually give people a four year degree in 18 months. Now the military requires a 4 year degree to be an officer, but during the war, when having gone to college was not as common, and the military needed people to fill officer positions, especially pilots, they put them through OCS as 90 day wonders. If you had the IQ and the other attributes to fill the officer role they needed, you could be commissioned, but you didn't come out with a college degree, just basic, officer training, and your specialty training.

For single place pursuit planes (fighters), the Army Air Force would sometimes make a pilot without a college degree a flying sergeant, and possibly a Flight Officer, a type of Warrant Officer, and it was possible to become commissioned as well.

Just got off the phone with a real Army Air Corp pilot (my dad). You did not need a college degree to fly in WWII. In fact, you did not even have to have college credit at all. What you did have to have was a passing grade on all of the qualifying tests, a psych exam, and pass a physical. Once you passed this gauntlet of test, they sent you to Pre-Flight School, not OCS. And, they were full time Army, not 90 day wonders. My dad's Pre-Flight was in Miami Beach, where the Army had commandeered many of the huge tourist hotels to house the tens of thousands of cadets.

After Pre-Flight, you went to flight school for training. Dad was sent to Eagle Pass, Texas (little did he know he would return to Texas 30 years later). Here, everyone trained initially on single engines. He, along with others were tricked into getting multi engine training as well, a needless skill, since they were all going to be fighter pilots, right? Wrong. He ended up flying C-47s in Europe, an assignment that pretty well makes achieving 'Ace' status impossible.

Upon completing Flight School, virtually every cadet was awarded 2nd Lieutenant brass. Only severe screwups managed to be made Flight Officers. Non-pilots DID go to OCS training, however.

NOTE: My dad was a sophomore at NC State when he joined up, though college was not a requirement to fly. He finally ended up graduating in 1949.

[Oldpilot]

Mr. Jackson wasn't a member of the 1st American Volunteer Group, the 60 or so pilots who resigned from the US military in 1941 to fly for the Chinese Air Force. Here's a complete list of the AVG Flying Tigers and perhaps more to the point, here's a list of survivors, of whom there are only five men who flew the Curtiss P-40 in combat. Their names are Hill, Bond, Jernstedt, Keeton, and Rossi.

But here's something to ponder: there was also a 2nd AVG, a bomber group recruited in the fall of 1941. Some ground crew and one pilot sailed for Burma (the AVGs were trained in Burma) in November, and the first pilots and air crews were scheduled to fly out on December 10, three days after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The planes were 33 Lockeed Hudson light bombers with long-range fuel tanks, sitting on the tarmac at Burbank CA. Planes and crews were taken back into the USAAF.

So it's just remotely possible that Mr. Jackson was a member of that group, and that he was subsequently picked for the Doolittle Raiders. But I wouldn't bet the family jewels on it!

HarperCollins is publishing -- today, as a matter of fact! -- my history of the 1st AVG under the title Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942. Click on the title for more information.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

[FilioScotia]

So it's just remotely possible that Mr. Jackson was a member of that group, and that he was subsequently picked for the Doolittle Raiders. But I wouldn't bet the family jewels on it!

HarperCollins is publishing -- today, as a matter of fact! -- my history of the 1st AVG under the title Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942. Click on the title for more information. Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Blue skies back at ya. What a coincidence, that I would bring up this guy Jackson, who may, or may not be, a former member of both the Flying Tigers AND Doolittle's Raiders, the day before publication of a book about the Tigers.

Mr. Ford: I'm glad you weighed in on this. Am I making too much of my suspicions that this guy might not have had the experiences he claims? I assume that you've read the preceding posts, and all the speculation and theorizing. What do you think? Would you question his claims?

It's the time frames that are a problem for me. The AVG's were in place in China and flying in late 1941. They only flew for about seven months, and were disbanded in July of 42.

After Pearl Harbor, Doolittle came up with the idea for the bombing raid sometime in January or February of 42, picked his crews out of the ranks of regular Army Air Corps pilots, trained them for carrier take-offs during March, and set sail on the Carrier Hornet on April 2nd. The bombing raid was carried out on April 18th. After the raid, they landed and crashed in China, and the survivors spent weeks and months getting back to the USA.

For me, the AVG and Doolittle Raid time frames practically overlap. I just don't think anybody could have done both. And if somebody really did do both, I think he'd be as famous as Audie Murphy.

[TheNiche]

Just got off the phone with a real Army Air Corp pilot (my dad). You did not need a college degree to fly in WWII. In fact, you did not even have to have college credit at all.

I admit that I haven't talked with him in depth about it, but back when I was in school studying economics, he made a point one evening to try and compare what he was taught in his wartime coursework in Wisconsin with what I got in mine. If all that was required were those factors relating to successful flying of a plane, then he certainly picked up some extras along the way. Perhaps it had to do with being near the end of the war, and they were stalling for time before deploying fresh pilots or something.

[millennica]

Just got off the phone with a real Army Air Corp pilot (my dad).

My father and uncle were both Tuskegee Airmen.

[plumber2]

My mother says that when she went to Galveston during the war that the businesses and restaurants on Seawall Blvd. had black out rules. No lights were allowed to show. You had to enter one door and let that one close behind you before you entered the next. It was even forbidden to use your headlights while driving at night on the Seawall or while driving south toward it.

[Vertigo58]

Just wondering if anyone has or knows any one that has placed any WWII or Korean War pics of their dad's, uncle's etc at any boards like you see at many Walmart and Golden Corral Entrance's?

I am glad I made copies of some of my uncles that actually served in WWII and some of my dad while he was training for Korean War around 1952-53. We were very fortunate all of my uncle's came back "physically" anyway. Be surprised how many young people have no idea what Shell Shock means.

Anyway just thought some of you have considered placing some pics of your families on these boards?

PS, this goes for women too. I saw one or two of WAC's in uniform. Kind of cool, reminded of the old Andrews's Sister's photo's and films of the era.

[Sam Maxwell]

This is true. My grandfather was trained to be a B-17 pilot even though he had dislexia. The Army arranged to school him with a 4-year degree in the span of 18 months that was concurrent to his flight training in order to qualify as an officer.

He was all set to drop some bombs on the Japanese; then two bombs ended the war and that was that.