Incorporate Northwest Houston?

[mrfootball]

We live in an area with roughly the population of Austin, yet this area doesn't have much needed ordinance making authority to ensure that it remains a desireable place to live down the road.

Incorporation may be the answer.

My hope is that we can learn more about what needs to be done for us to possibly move forward with an initiative to Incorporate our community. Obviously there are issues of ETJ that need to be explored, but I feel this is worth looking into.

To begin, here's a link to an article with a rough primer on "How to start your own town"

[ChampionsAdam]

Okay...now you might be onto something

[mrfootball]

First off, I think we need a link to a current Houston ETJ (Extraterritorial Jurisdiction) map.

FYI - Here's a helpful study with regards to issues of ETJ in Texas:

http://www.bhlaw.net/CM/Articles%20Present...%20ETJ%20map%22

In it, they mention something about "Home Rule" Municipalities that have ordinance making power (such as signage, etc)

[RedScare]

Watch out, that first step

Houston ETJ

is a doozy!

[VicMan]

Yeah, you need Houston's permission to incorporate.

By the way, was Cypress ever incorporated?

[mrfootball]

Yes, Cypress was incorporated up until 1989.

I'd love to find a way to somehow reverse this, or a loophole provision that would ease the process of re-incorporating.

[VicMan]

Yes, Cypress was incorporated up until 1989.

I'd love to find a way to somehow reverse this, or a loophole provision that would ease the process of re-incorporating.

Do you have any news articles about that? I would like to add this info to the Cypress Wikipedia article.

By the way, what were the boundaries of the city of Cypress?

[Trae]

I wonder when Cinco Ranch and areas outside of Katy city limits will be incorporated by Houston. They go with the Katy address (equally about 185,000 people), but are in Houston's ETJ.

[FilioScotia]

I wonder when Cinco Ranch and areas outside of Katy city limits will be incorporated by Houston. They go with the Katy address (equally about 185,000 people), but are in Houston's ETJ.

Here's a little secret about Houston's annexation plans. They won't annex residential areas, because people in those areas would be very angry, and would form a voting bloc that could really cause trouble in city elections. So the city won't use that approach. They'll do what they did on Hwy 249. Houston annexed a strip of frontage on both sides of 249 out to 1960, to take in Willowbrook Mall and all the commercial properties around it. The city gets hundreds of millions of dollars in property and sales taxes, with none of the headaches angry residents would cause at the voting booths.

Houston's ETJ extends five miles beyond any point on the city limit line, and when the city limit line moves outward with an annexation, the ETJ moves outward with it. No unincorporated area in the ETJ is free to incorporate without Houston's permission, and Houston has never given any area that permission. Incorporated municipalities in existence before the ETJ law was passed in 1963 were grandfathered in. Places like Bellaire, the Memorial Villages, Katy, Humble, Pasadena and all those towns on the east side of the county.

I live in Copperfield, and we don't worry about being annexed. Too many voters out here, and we're overwhelmingly Republican and conservative. A voting bloc of nearly a hundred thousand people could really torch Houston City Hall (figuratively speaking of course) and end some political careers if they annexed this area, and Houston City Council knows that. They're not going to expose themselves to that potential. Houston does have its eyes on this area, but it's far more likely that it will annex a frontage strip on both sides of Hwy 6 from Clay Road to Hwy 290, and maybe even all the way around to 249. That would take in many hundreds of businesses of all sizes but no residential areas.

People now in the ETJ who want to incorporate can just forget it. Don't waste your time, energy or money. Houston won't let it happen, and there ain't a damn thing you or anyone else can do about it.

[Trae]

I guess that's why along the IH-10 Frontage Road, the adresses for the businesses say Houston (until Westgreen).

I guess Houston is actually smart about that. Don't annex the residential areas, just the commercial for some extra tax dollars.

[mrfootball]

If true, if we aren't permitted to incorporate, and Houston only wants to steal tax revenue from our local retail, this just doesn't seem right. How could this be constitutional? On one hand, Houston wants our lucrative tax revenue, on the other they don't wish to carry the expense of providing services. Meanwhile, we're held prostrate, unable to form our own government due to some horseshit ETJ laws? Houston's essentially holding us hostage from improving our own local areas with ordinances and regulations -- powers that the County doesn't have.

This is quite simply, taxation without representation.

[Trae]

Or Houston could annex all of the residential area's to make it two steps closer to Chicago, and one steps ahead of Phoenix.

[mrfootball]

Houston's still trying to digest Kingwood...

[Trae]

Houston couldn't handle Kingwood? I think that Cypress should incorporate (almost everything in Cy-Fair). Everything under the Katy address should incorportate. The Woodlands should incorporate, too.

[mrfootball]

Agreed.

Houston has had a difficult time matching the same level of service Kingwood had prior to annexation. Houston also doesn't like (as mentioned earlier) the fact that they'd be annexing large chunks of energized Republican voters with a score to settle.

[Trae]

I think with these incorporations, some of Houston suburbs would become like Dallas', and Houston would have to compete with its suburbs, like Dallas.

[mrfootball]

I think with these incorporations, some of Houston suburbs would become like Dallas', and Houston would have to compete with its suburbs, like Dallas.

Of course competition isn't necessarily a bad thing. Seriously...how big does Houston need to be? How big and spread out can Houston actually be and still be governed effectively? They can't handle what they have now as it is. I see Sugar Land offering the closest thing in terms of what they've got in Dallas.

[Trae]

Yeah, Sugar Land and you forgot the Woodlands. Those two are huge. The Energy Corridor (along Eldridge Parkway), and The Parkway Developments by Kickerillo feel like they are in Katy. I guess it's because of Katy I.S.D. butting the area.

[FilioScotia]

If true, if we aren't permitted to incorporate, and Houston only wants to steal tax revenue from our local retail, this just doesn't seem right. How could this be constitutional? On one hand, Houston wants our lucrative tax revenue, on the other they don't wish to carry the expense of providing services. Meanwhile, we're held prostrate, unable to form our own government due to some horseshit ETJ laws? Houston's essentially holding us hostage from improving our own local areas with ordinances and regulations -- powers that the County doesn't have.

This is quite simply, taxation without representation.

I agree it's not right, but it's not taxation without representation. We pay no Houston taxes out here in the ETJ suburbs and we're not getting city services either. It's still wrong because Houston is holding us hostage and we don't have the right to decide who governs us.

The ETJ law was passed to give urban areas control over its unincorporated suburbs, so it can annex and grow, and expand its tax base. Houston learned a bitter lesson when it annexed Clear Lake City in the early 70s and spent years and millions of dollars fighting the lawsuits in court. Houston went through the same thing again when it annexed Kingwood in the 90s, and ultimately won the court battles, but the fight sapped Houston's will to deal with angry residential property owners who can file endless lawsuits and vote them out of office. That's why they only annex commercial areas now -- not residential areas. I can't sit here and say that is the city's official policy, but it is the pattern it seems to be in now.

As for the constitutionality of the ETJ law, it's been challenged all the way to the Supreme Court by Clear Lake City and by Kingwood but it was upheld both times.

I'm not a lawyer, but I can say I don't think the ETJ law has ever been challenged on the right grounds. Courts only rule on the specific claims and allegations presented by the plaintiffs, and I believe a lawsuit claiming denial of the unalienable American right to self-determination might succeed, because that right is one of the principles this country was founded upon. Hell it was one of the reasons for the American revolution, but I don't think it was part of either of the big annexation lawsuits.

[KinkaidAlum]

Well, for all you folks who like to delicate flower and moan out in the ETJs of the metro region and like to claim things like taxation without representation, have you thought about this...

How often do you use the City of Houston's services, whether it be at your workplace (if you work in the city) or when you are at play? Do you drive on city streets? Do you flush the toilet or turn on the sink at work? Do you utilize the city's airports?

Thousands of suburban folks TAX the City of Houston's services without paying their fair share on a daily basis. In landlocked cities all over the country, this situation has caused the demise of many a locale (think Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland, Milwaukee, etc...) because they do not have the ability to make up for the shortfalls caused by people moving out to the exurbs yet still utilizing city services. Houston is lucky to be in the situation she is in.

Also, as a home buyer, it is really your responsibility to do some research before you purchased your home; especially if you are one of those self-sufficient conservative types. I have no sympathy for someone who buys a home in an unincorporated area who now cries about being held hostage. You should have fled to an incorporated area. It's really that simple.

[VicMan]

I think with these incorporations, some of Houston suburbs would become like Dallas', and Houston would have to compete with its suburbs, like Dallas.

As Trae said - Dallas, to the north, west and east, is landlocked. Right now it has no incentive to annex parts of the south - But once the Union Pacific terminal grows, Dallas may change its mind.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Also, as a home buyer, it is really your responsibility to do some research before you purchased your home; especially if you are one of those self-sufficient conservative types. I have no sympathy for someone who buys a home in an unincorporated area who now cries about being held hostage. You should have fled to an incorporated area. It's really that simple.

I think the prority as a home buyer for some people here is to escape the minorities. Cant be part of a city thats filled with those horrible minority folks.

[TheNiche]

Also, as a home buyer, it is really your responsibility to do some research before you purchased your home; especially if you are one of those self-sufficient conservative types. I have no sympathy for someone who buys a home in an unincorporated area who now cries about being held hostage.

Every once in a while, I find myself in complete agreement with you. Good post.

[mrfootball]

Incorporated municipalities in existence before the ETJ law was passed in 1963 were grandfathered in. Places like Bellaire, the Memorial Villages, Katy, Humble, Pasadena and all those towns on the east side of the county.

Cypress was definitely incorporated back then. I wonder if the 'grandfather' clause would still apply should we decide to reincorporate?

[VicMan]

I agree that Cypress should reincorporate to its former boundaries, albiet with no ETJ.

[FilioScotia]

I think the prority as a home buyer for some people here is to escape the minorities. Cant be part of a city thats filled with those horrible minority folks.

I didn't know Cypress was once an incorporated municipality. I also wonder if, once being grandfathered, it could somehow restore itself to that status. That's an interesting question that's worth exploring.

One of the posters here sneered at my suggestion that people in the ETJ are being held hostage by Houston. How else can you describe a situation where the larger municipality -- Houston -- has the power to prevent you from governing yourself, but it won't annex you because that would bring in thousands of potentially angry voters -- and upset city voting patterns in ways that could violate the Federal Voting Rights Act, and embroil the city in years of expensive litigation with angry newly annexed voters and the US Justice Department? We're not allowed to govern ourselves, and we're not allowed to vote for or against the people who are denying us that right, i.e. the Houston City Council. There's something wrong with that picture. We are being governed de facto by people we have no control over, and if that's not being "held hostage" I don't know what is.

Furthermore, I didn't move to the suburbs to escape minorities. Anybody who does that is in for a rude surprise. We moved out here because it was affordable. The housing market was bad in the 80s, but home prices were higher in the city than in the suburbs -- even for new houses. (Still are.) We also didn't want to send our kids to HISD schools, and that had nothing to do with minorities either. Our living choices and school choices were grounded in family economics and quality of education.

You may be surprised at the number of "minorities" who feel the same way. My Copperfield neighborhood is filled with people of all races, ethnicities and nationalities. On my block alone we have five or six black families, several Vietnamese or Korean, four or five middle eastern, several Hispanic, some Caucasians like me, and we all get along just fine. That's just one block. We could hold a United Nations meeting.

There's no such thing as a "lily-white suburb" anymore. It doesn't exist in Houston, and to suggest that minorities can't move to the suburbs is absurd. Come out to Bear Creek and Copperfield on any Saturday or Sunday, and you'll find plenty of upwardly mobile people of all colors and races, and they moved to the suburbs for the same reasons everyone does -- cost of living and quality of life. People can live anywhere they can afford to live, whatever their race.

I'm reminded of an incident that happened about ten years ago, when Houston's professional perpetually offended Nation of Islam racist Quanell X came running out here when a black family who had just moved in complained publicly about hearing racist comments from one of his white neighbors.

Mr. X did his usual ranting about white racism for the TV cameras, but he left quickly and quietly when he discovered how many black families live in that same neighborhood, and they and their white neighbors get along just fine thank you very much. It turned out that the white guy at the center of the incident had a reputation for being a jerk and nobody paid any attention to him. Well, nobody but Quanell X.

[shinoda28107]

I didn't know Cypress was once an incorporated municipality. I also wonder if, once being grandfathered, it could somehow restore itself to that status. That's an interesting question that's worth exploring.

One of the posters here sneered at my suggestion that people in the ETJ are being held hostage by Houston. How else can you describe a situation where the larger municipality -- Houston -- has the power to prevent you from governing yourself, but it won't annex you because that would bring in thousands of potentially angry voters -- and upset city voting patterns in ways that could violate the Federal Voting Rights Act, and embroil the city in years of expensive litigation with angry newly annexed voters and the US Justice Department? We're not allowed to govern ourselves, and we're not allowed to vote for or against the people who are denying us that right, i.e. the Houston City Council. There's something wrong with that picture. We are being governed de facto by people we have no control over, and if that's not being "held hostage" I don't know what is.

Furthermore, I didn't move to the suburbs to escape minorities. Anybody who does that is in for a rude surprise. We moved out here because it was affordable. The housing market was bad in the 80s, but home prices were higher in the city than in the suburbs -- even for new houses. (Still are.) We also didn't want to send our kids to HISD schools, and that had nothing to do with minorities either. Our living choices and school choices were grounded in family economics and quality of education.

You may be surprised at the number of "minorities" who feel the same way. My Copperfield neighborhood is filled with people of all races, ethnicities and nationalities. On my block alone we have five or six black families, several Vietnamese or Korean, four or five middle eastern, several Hispanic, some Caucasians like me, and we all get along just fine. That's just one block. We could hold a United Nations meeting.

There's no such thing as a "lily-white suburb" anymore. It doesn't exist in Houston, and to suggest that minorities can't move to the suburbs is absurd. Come out to Bear Creek and Copperfield on any Saturday or Sunday, and you'll find plenty of upwardly mobile people of all colors and races, and they moved to the suburbs for the same reasons everyone does -- cost of living and quality of life. People can live anywhere they can afford to live, whatever their race.

I'm reminded of an incident that happened about ten years ago, when Houston's professional perpetually offended Nation of Islam racist Quanell X came running out here when a black family who had just moved in complained publicly about hearing racist comments from one of his white neighbors.

Mr. X did his usual ranting about white racism for the TV cameras, but he left quickly and quietly when he discovered how many black families live in that same neighborhood, and they and their white neighbors get along just fine thank you very much. It turned out that the white guy at the center of the incident had a reputation for being a jerk and nobody paid any attention to him. Well, nobody but Quanell X.

My family just recently moved into Westcreek Village in Copperfield. We are African Americans leaving the city behind. I still attend a magnet high school in an urban school district and i have two teachers (one of Chinese descent and from India), that also live here. This place is just the most friendly and racially homogeneous suburb around. I hope that this area of Metro-Houston can incorporate. Imagine the new industries that the City of .....? pop: 750,000 could attract!

[Trae]

Yeah, my teachers are the same here out in Katy...

But, what I think if West Houston corporated, we would attract more companies and have a population of around 700,000. We don't want Houston to be hemmed in, though it does have other sides to expand to.

[VicMan]

I wonder what the boundaries of the City of Cypress were

Football, why not lead a campaign to have Cypress reincorporate to its former boundaries (with no ETJ)? That should keep COH happy and keep Cypress residents happy

[mrfootball]

I discussed this with some of my neighbors who seemed pretty keen on the idea. It would be great if somebody could provide us with a map of Cypress pre 1989 which would show the boundaries.