Terror Plot Foiled

[RedScare]

Allowing an airmarshall to act and investigate has nothing to do with garnering publicity for fightting terror.

IF a cop is allowed pull over a driver he suspects is drunk by observing them... why cant the air marshalls act.

The cop doesnt wait till the drunk driver crashes before acting.. that would be irresponsible and pointless.

Police and investigators are allowed to act on suspicion and hunch. They are at least allowed to further investiagate.

Why is mainting anominity of the air marshalls more important a goal then investigating suspicious behavior.

Maybe airlones should be forced to employ bouncers. One per flight. Big and obvious. There to deter suspicious behaviour.

No, police are NOT allowed to act on suspicion and hunch. They articulable facts that give them authority to pull over those suspected of driving impaired, such as weaving on the road, speeding, jerky stops, etc. Once stopped, there is no authority to arrest until there is probable cause to arrest, again based on facts observed.

Again, what do you know about this flight that tells you nothing was done? Where is it written that law enforcement did nothing. And, what is suspicious about going to the restroom, especially since everyone on board had been screened prior to getting on the plane?

Using that woman's article is a poor support for your argument. I don't disagree that screening and air marshalls should be used. I disagree that this woman knows what she's talking about. In fact, NOTHING happened on this flight. The musicians were CLEAN. Maybe, it is because law enforcement DID do their job, and this nosy delicate flower doesn't know that. It is not the air marshall's job to tell her.

[Trae]

...or just got confused.

...or couldn't read something that long

[Highway6]

No, police are NOT allowed to act on suspicion and hunch. They articulable facts that give them authority to pull over those suspected of driving impaired, such as weaving on the road, speeding, jerky stops, etc. Once stopped, there is no authority to arrest until there is probable cause to arrest, again based on facts observed.

I'm not saying they have the authority to arrest.

Your cops are using their observations as reason to invesitgate further... which entails stoping them, observing closer, then letting them go on their way if wrong or arresting if right.

IF a driver is weaving back in forth in his lane, if he has a jerky stop and go... these alone are not against the law.. but they are indications that a law is being broken and are enough to be pulled over so a cop can investigate closer.

Thats what I am saying.. they should have the power to investigate further behavior they observe to be suspicious.

All the acts in the article( repeatedly going to the restroom, going into the lavatory with a full mcdonalds bag and coming out with an empty, hand signal) .. alone are harmleess and not against the law. But when strung together, could indicate a law is being broken.

Again, what do you know about this flight that tells you nothing was done? Where is it written that law enforcement did nothing. And, what is suspicious about going to the restroom, especially since everyone on board had been screened prior to getting on the plane?

Using that woman's article is a poor support for your argument. I don't disagree that screening and air marshalls should be used. I disagree that this woman knows what she's talking about. In fact, NOTHING happened on this flight. The musicians were CLEAN. Maybe, it is because law enforcement DID do their job, and this nosy delicate flower doesn't know that. It is not the air marshall's job to tell her.

The only part of her account Im using is to describe the suspicious behavior.

The fact that it was suspicious enough that the entire crew was aware of it and authorities called to await the plane means we don't have to base this off of 'one nosy delicate flower's' account of things. if the crew noticed, and authorities were called, we can assume the air marshalls noticed.

You're right, neither you nor I know exaclty what the Air marshalls did in this instance.. however...

I referenced the quote from the spokesman for the Federal Air Marshals saying they can't act unless something actually happens. If this is indeed true, i dont know. If it is, That is saying they don't have the power to investigate and act solely on observation in order to prevent something from happening.

[TJones]

You do what any government gang does when confronted with an organized criminal organization. Create a police task force to investigate and search them out. The US should strengthen its ties with its allies around the world, sharing intelligence to find the ringleaders. Undercover agents can and should be deployed to silently "take out" the gang leaders, whether it be kidnapping for interrogation, or assassination to end that terrorist's influence for good. If done quietly, it gives no fuel for the rest of the group to rally around.

Diplomacy and bullying can be used with sovereign states, but not with criminal gangs. Even Hezbollah and Hamas have a political component. al Qaida is nothing more than an MS-13 or the Mafia, whose goal is pandemonium, rather than monetary profit.

Red, this requires "wiretapping" and "sneak and peek" ops,(which is what the British black ops did) and looking at incoming emails and phone calls from out of the country, at a moments notice. Are you "all in" on that now ? As long as you don't know about it, RIGHT ?

You talked about Al- Queda pulling strings, Al-Queda's objective is not to "slow-down" the time it takes you to get through the check points at the airport, it is to kill every non-muslim, America loving, freedom loving, person they can. Their mission is to blow up as many people as possible to end the infidel reign.

[RedScare]

You're right, neither you nor I know exaclty what the Air marshalls did in this instance.. however...

I referenced the quote from the spokesman for the Federal Air Marshals saying they can't act unless something actually happens. If this is indeed true, i dont know. If it is, That is saying they don't have the power to investigate and act solely on observation in order to prevent something from happening.

The Air Marshalls have more authority to act than any law enforcement agency in the US. Now, I am done debating this non-event, as it has nothing to do with the big picture of combatting criminal organizations.

Red, this requires "wiretapping" and "sneak and peek" ops,(which is what the British black ops did) and looking at incoming emails and phone calls from out of the country. Are you "all in" on that now ? As long as you don't know about it, RIGHT ?

You talked about Al- Queda pulling strings, Al-Queda's objective is not to "slow-down" the time it takes you to get through the check points at the airport, it is to kill every non-muslim, America loving, freedom loving, person they can. Their mission is to blow up as many people as possible to end the infidel reign.

TJ, there are numerous laws on the books allowing criminal investigations, including wiretap and searches of homes. They have proved to be very effective at bringing down large criminal enterprises. I reject the Bush administration argument that we need to give up our constitutional rights to capture these particular criminals. For instance, the intelligence that captured this group came from Pakistan.

I also reject your generalized definition of al Qaida. In fact, that political rhetoric is part of the problem. al Qaida should be described as what it is...a criminal enterprise that is using high publicity criminal acts to achieve its goals. For the US government to assist al Qaida in publicizing itself is counter-productive to eliminating the group.

Local police for years have resisted publicizing gang names for exactly that reason. Recently, some news organizations have taken to sensationalizing MS-13, but the police would prefer otherwise. When I worked in Ft. Worth, FWPD policy was to never confirm the names of gangs. They do not deserve the pub.

[TJones]

I totally agree that Al-Queda is a bunch of thugs, but Bin Laden and his group of chimps ain't doin' it for the money, Bin Laden has plenty of it, and can get more from his Saudi family if he desires, he is doin' it to take down as many Americans as he can.

Word on the terrorist plot now is that the green light was given as soon as the first arrests were being made in Pakistan. I have to say I was a little surprised that it was Pakis, I know a couple of Pakistanis, and they couldn't be nicer. Maybe it is just a front and they are "sleepers" ?

[Gary]

a criminal enterprise that is using high publicity criminal acts to achieve its goals. For the US government to assist al Qaida in publicizing itself is counter-productive to eliminating the group.

I absolutely agree with this and it was actually part of the point in my previous post.

As far as the wiretapping issue goes, I tend to agree with TJ, although I do understand your point Red. I know it's scary to give the government that much power into our lives, but I would rather that than see a nuke hitting the ship channel.

[Highway6]

The Air Marshalls have more authority to act than any law enforcement agency in the US. Now, I am done debating this non-event, as it has nothing to do with the big picture of combatting criminal organizations.

Ok. Well, I don't know what authority they have.

I'm reacting to a quote, from a spokeman of the FAM agency, basically admitting their limitations... which suggests they dont have more authority to act than other law enforcement agencies. (the actual non-event as you put it, or nosy source don't matter. Its put forth as quoting a FAM spokesman, therefore we should assume it to be accurate.)

IF you're right, then yes, then its a not as much an issue as I thought.

So prove it. Find me some quotes or examples detailing they do have as much authority as you claim.

I produced a quote detailing the limitations.

If you can produce actual evidence or quotes to counter that.. that says they can act upon suspicious behavior, and don't actually have to wait for something to happen. Thats would be great.

I'm being sincere here.. please show me that they are not as limited as I believe them to be.

[RedScare]

I totally agree that Al-Queda is a bunch of thugs, but Bin Laden and his group of chimps ain't doin' it for the money, Bin Laden has plenty of it, and can get more from his Saudi family if he desires, he is doin' it to take down as many Americans as he can.

al Qaida is dedicated to ridding the Middle East, especially his native country of Saudi Arabia, of US influence. bin Laden desires control of the Middle East. Attacks on American interests are not the GOAL, but the METHOD. Bush statements to the contrary are political statements, not accurate ones, meant to shore up political support. They are extremely damaging to the stated goal of defeating terrorism, because they suggest that ALL Muslims are anti-US, and aid both recruiting and anti-US sentiment in the Middle East, a region that the US depends on greatly.

bin Laden could care less about our "freedoms", "democracy", "Christians" and all of the other simplistic and jingoistics reasons given. It is about control of the Middle East, and the US and bin Laden both want it. NEITHER group wants democracy in the Middle East. BOTH want control.

[TJones]

Red, you seem to forget that if it wasn't for "US interests" Bin Laden and his family would not reap the rewards of their "oil millions". The people of the Middle East I think for the most part enjoy their Mercedes and Porsches, and 62" Plasma TVs.

If Bin Laden is intent on ridding the Middle East of US interests, then why attack buildings and the people here and in the UK, why not just start attacking the people of US and English origin in the Middle East, why try to come here. I assure you if they just start taking these people out of their hotels and such, that no one will want to be there. What is the use of flying planes into the buildings ? Then keep trying to blow up more planes ? If the problem is within his own country, why not deal with his problem there ? Maybe I shouldn't give these suicide nutjobs any ideas.

[Trae]

Well, I got a corn field right by my school that we could use.

[TJones]

Well, I got a corn field right by my school that we could use.

SEE ! RIGHT THERE ! He has a cornfield we can use, we are well on our way.

psssssssssttttt............Trae, WTF are you talking about ?

[Gary]

SEE ! RIGHT THERE ! He has a cornfield we can use, we are well on our way.

psssssssssttttt............Trae, WTF are you talking about ?

(Falling out of chair and unable to breath)

[Trae]

We can settle this issue while eating corn on the cob!

pssssssssssssssst............Ethanol or whatever kind of new ways to run cars.

[TJones]

Ethanol or whatever kind of new ways to run cars.

Oh Geeeeeeez, ok, I thought you were talking about a place to bury a few Bin Laden lovers.

Gary, I was using my Dave Atell voice in that other post.

[Trae]

Oh Geeeeeeez, ok, I thought you were talking about a place to bury a few Bin Laden lovers.

That, too .

[Parrothead]

First thing that should be done is to shove the United Nations into the ocean. Kick that jackassed group of individuals out of America. Its nothing more than a habitat for extremist Islamic nations that do not have the best interest of America in mind. Incase you have forgotten or dont remember, i dont give a damn about the world. Im not a citizen of the world i am a citizen of America. The best interest of America is and always will be paramount to me.

Second, turn the radar towards nations that are known to habor and provide aid in some form or another to terrorist.

To say that the terrorist are not a nation, and radical Islam doesnt play a roll in it, is a bunch of BS.

Next, move all strategic assets to highest level.

Recall American Ambassadors to these nations and shut off all communication to the countries other than dialogue that points out the terrorist and thier supporters.

I will stop there to give you sometime to digest that, i know its hard for some people.

HOLY CRAP and AMEN!

[Gary]

Oh Geeeeeeez, ok, I thought you were talking about a place to bury a few Bin Laden lovers.

Gary, I was using my Dave Atell voice in that other post.

Stop it TJ!

[MexAmerican_Moose]

kudos to the brits

[TJones]

That

[TJones]

Not necessary, I just thought it strange that you typed in the third person.

Discerning, I meant to give you the quick version of THE RULES OF HAIF CLUB !

1) Number 1 rule of HAIF Club.............you don't talk about HAIF Club.

2) You must have "thick skin" to want to be in HAIF Club. (there are alot of knuckleheads here, as you have already seen.)

3) Third and last rule of HAIF Club.............you don't talk about HAIF Club.

[TJones]

OK...I didn't know it was a secret club-lol and I have noticed a few knuckleheads-kinda cranked up it sounds like.

Was my post too long and did any of it hit home?

Well, sure it does, just like your namesake implies, you have to figure out what IS the greater good ? Then, try not to lose sight of it, and, to use a Presidential word I know will irritate the hell out of some, be "STEADFAST".

btw, nmain...............how do you like the new avatar ? I think I am keeping this one for awhile, or at least until it gives me a seizure from drooli..........I mean staring at it.

[Gary]

Not necessary, I just thought it strange that you typed in the third person.

Discerning, I meant to give you the quick version of THE RULES OF HAIF CLUB !

1) Number 1 rule of HAIF Club.............you don't talk about HAIF Club.

2) You must have "thick skin" to wabt to be in HAIF Club. (there are alot of knuckleheads here, as you have already seen.)

3) Third and last rule of HAIF Club.............you don't talk about HAIF Club.

To join the goof ball club... TJ, who is that lovely lady on your avatar? I almost had to make a break for the bathroom.

[Trae]

Nice avatar TJones.

Whoa!!! It turned out big

[TJones]

To join the goof ball club... TJ, who is that lovely lady on your avatar? I almost had to make a break for the bathroom.

Tsk.....Tsk.....Tsk........... Gary, you are killin' me ! Think SIN CITY !

Sorry folks, I have now hijacked the whole thread, let's get back on topic. So............about that cornfield ? Just how many gallons do you think we could make out there ?

[Highway6]

.

[TJones]

I concur.

I'm am posting that I concur strictly as an excuse to have Jessica wiggle on the screen even more.

CORNFIELDS DAMMIT !

[Gary]

Sorry folks, I have now hijacked the whole thread, let's get back on topic. So............about that cornfield ? Just how many gallons do you think we could make out there ?

I've got a killer recipe for corn mash.

[nmainguy]

btw, nmain...............how do you like the new avatar ? I think I am keeping this one for awhile, or at least until it gives me a seizure from drooli..........I mean staring at it.

You just got a thumbs up from my 19yo nephew who's staying with me for the rest of the summer so I guess you got the "19yo perpetually horney guy" vote.

[Trae]

What happend to your avatar TJones??