ricco67 Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 According to this article, it looks like they're going to install seat belts on school buses. The thing they don't really think about is, while in any other form of transportation seat belts is a good idea, but when a bus has a SERIOUS accident, they usually flip on it's side. The force of the seat belts on a body on the 'upside" will have the potential of further injuries.I'm surprised no one really looked into that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonian in Iraq Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 According to this article, it looks like they're going to install seat belts on school buses. The thing they don't really think about is, while in any other form of transportation seat belts is a good idea, but when a bus has a SERIOUS accident, they usually flip on it's side. The force of the seat belts on a body on the 'upside" will have the potential of further injuries.I'm surprised no one really looked into that fact.Isn't that the reason there was a hesitation in installing seatbelts in school buses? That they could cuase more harm than good. That in a fire all those kids could be upside down strapped to their seats and not be able to get pulled out in time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Also, has there been some rule put in place to limit the number of children to a seat? Standard such as 2 kids to a seat? In the past i have noticed that some busses are so full, they have 3 kids to a seat in some seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Just to reinforce my argument from the latest accident here in Houston mentioned in Today's Chronicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) Just to reinforce my argument from the latest accident here in Houston mentioned in Today's Chronicle.not sure if it reinforces your argument or is just a data point particularly because they are special needs students. a friend's pregnant sister was in an accident and wasn't wearing her seat belt either. her dr told her that she should be thankful she wasn't otherwise her baby would most likely be dead because of the nature of her injuries. but i don't use my seat belt as a result of her incident. the likelyhood if it helping me is greater.i believe the size of the bus is a major factor. since most vehicles are smaller than a bus the major damage would be to the smaller vehicle most likely. but if an 18 wheeler comes along you just don't know. too many ifs and probably just as many studies.the state is currently attempting to implement a child seat law for children up to 8 or 9 yrs of age, which seems old to me. if you're child isn't in a seat you will be ticketed. i just dont know what people visiting from out of state would do in this instance? all run out and buy a child seat? Edited March 21, 2007 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Maybe they want to add seatbelts just to cover themselves when something does happen, and then they can just point to the fact they have seatbelts and blame it on the kids or whomever for not wearing them.And did you guys ride the bus when you were a kid? There are like 25 rows w/ an average of two kids per seat, which is 50 kids?...It's hard enough to just keep the kids behaved sometimes, how are they even going to enforce this. I don't think they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Seatbelts should have been placed on school busses long ago. The only reason i can think of as to why it wasnt done is monetary. The upfront cost probably wasnt attractive, and it isnt an investment in which a district can get its expenditure cost back-----such as giving out tickets to students that dont wear the belts, as a policeman would do to you in your own automobile. Letting kids remain unrestrained, to be thrown about the cabin of a bus and end up with serious and or life threatening injuries in a serious accident, is nothing short of a jackassed approach to safety.And did you guys ride the bus when you were a kid?No I didnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Seatbelts should have been placed on school busses long ago. The only reason i can think of as to why it wasnt done is monetary. The upfront cost probably wasnt attractive, and it isnt an investment in which a district can get its expenditure cost back-----such as giving out tickets to students that dont wear the belts, as a policeman would do to you in your own automobile. Letting kids remain unrestrained, to be thrown about the cabin of a bus and end up with serious and or life threatening injuries in a serious accident, is nothing short of a jackassed approach to safety.No I didnt.Monetary reasons should not even enter the mind of anyone when considering seatbelts for safety. I'm lead to believe no group of decision makers are ignorant enough to think that way. If so, they should lose their jobs...and that would be a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Monetary reasons should not even enter the mind of anyone when considering seatbelts for safety. I'm lead to believe no group of decision makers are ignorant enough to think that way. If so, they should lose their jobs...and that would be a lot of people. You would be suprised how often it happens. Keeping low monetary expenditures trump safety in MANY areas, happens a lot, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 not sure if it reinforces your argument or is just a data point particularly because they are special needs students. a friend's pregnant sister was in an accident and wasn't wearing her seat belt either. her dr told her that she should be thankful she wasn't otherwise her baby would most likely be dead because of the nature of her injuries. but i don't use my seat belt as a result of her incident. the likelyhood if it helping me is greater.If your sister was riding in a private vehicle, she should have worn a seat belt. Period. The kids that were on the bus landed on it's side (the fact as to whether they were special needs is not relevant) and had relatively minor injuries. If this happened same accident happened in a car (SUV, Truck, etc) without belts, it would have resulted in more serious injuries, but with belts the injuries would have been not have been life threatening (taking in all the other factors, of course).Sorry, picturing kids dangling from their sides wearing lap or shoulder belts is just trouble waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 If your sister was riding in a private vehicle, she should have worn a seat belt. Period. The kids that were on the bus landed on it's side (the fact as to whether they were special needs is not relevant) and had relatively minor injuries. If this happened same accident happened in a car (SUV, Truck, etc) without belts, it would have resulted in more serious injuries, but with belts the injuries would have been not have been life threatening (taking in all the other factors, of course).Sorry, picturing kids dangling from their sides wearing lap or shoulder belts is just trouble waiting to happen.my friend's sister was in a private vehicle and didn't wear her seat belt because she was pregnant and too uncomfortable with it on. my recommendation would have been to follow the law. the article was not thorough so i'm not sure whether any of the children were in wheelchairs, which some special needs people are. the wheelchairs on buses are required to used the belts. while the passengers can roam freely. if they were in wheelchairs, the belts may have prevented a more serious injury (or cause injury to another child not in a wheelchair if not buckled), i don't know. as i mentioned earlier, i think the size of the vehicle is a big factor as to why school buses don't have seat belts in this age of safety consciousness. i can compare a truck and a car relatively but i don't wouldn't compare them to a bus wrt size. another impt factor is seat design no doubt, particularly if crashes are from the front or behind. side crashes are the ones where some kind of restraint may be more helpful, assuming you can get the children to wear it properly. as for saying "I'm surprised no one really looked into that fact." i'm in doubt. i'm sure there are numerous studies but i'll bet the conclusions vary just like ours do here.i just don't see how the article is reenforcing your argument. so are you saying that if the children weren't wearing seatbelts their injuries would have been less? the adult aide wasn't wearing a belt (tacit assumption) and she was taken to the hospital too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 The point was that a bus that is thrown on it's side does not automatically mean the kids will die a horrible death.While the article doesn't explain the details on special needs students (wheel chair students are typically put on smaller buses), it is probable that they were, for the most part quite mobile before the accident.You're right, I'm sure there might have been a couple of studies done in regards to bus accidents, but perhaps they can get a move on as far as results go. Perhaps laterally collapsing benches if a sudden weight of say, 200 lbs is detected to cushion a fall would be a more useful solution. Your sister should have just sucked it up and worn it, you can't predict where/when an accident will occur. She was totally lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Sorry, picturing kids dangling from their sides wearing lap or shoulder belts is just trouble waiting to happen. Priceless The seat belts i have seen on school busses are not the lap belt type. They are harnesses. The harness belt doesnt allow for dangling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Priceless The seat belts i have seen on school busses are not the lap belt type. They are harnesses. The harness belt doesnt allow for dangling. Harnesses? Dang, I feel sorry for the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Harnesses? Dang, I feel sorry for the kids.if they had to wear them at astroworld RIP, they can wear them on the bus. i don't i feel sorry for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) if they had to wear them at astroworld RIP, they can wear them on the bus. i don't i feel sorry for them.LOL, I guess. haha...Astroworld and the bus are a little different though, aren't they?I'm not a parent either, but I am an uncle. I think I'd be ok if my nephew were on a school bus w/o seatbelts. But it depends on the route they travel too I guess. I know when I took the bus, it was pretty much all residential. We never took busy roads. So maybe that's why I think differently.What's the RIP for? Did some kids die on a ride by not wearing the proper belts? Edited March 21, 2007 by lockmat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 What's the RIP for? Did some kids die on a ride by not wearing the proper belts?astroworld is no longer with us. a few accidents did happen their too and seat belts weren't always the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicMan Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Guys,Lap belts on school buses would cause internal injuries.I am not sure about lap and shoulder belts, but remember that school buses ARE different from private automobiles and therefore should be given special treatment.In HISD, the NEWER buses lack lap belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Guys,Lap belts on school buses would cause internal injuries.what type of results did you get from your research? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 the same results that would have gotten from the GOVT. during their crash tests using only lapbelts in accidents, which is why we have shoulder belts in the back seats in newer cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 the same results that would have gotten from the GOVT. during their crash tests using only lapbelts in accidents, which is why we have shoulder belts in the back seats in newer cars. from tests on buses, the govt determined that shoulder belts in newer cars are needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 from tests on buses, the govt determined that shoulder belts in newer cars are needed? No, from lapbelt in cars in government car crash tests that have been run for decades. Sorry I had to clarify that. Here is the link that contains some of what I'm trying to say which includes the following: Seat Belt Syndrome. Seat Belt Syndrome, or SBS, is a phrase that was originally coined by the medical community in the late 1950s and early 1960s to describe injuries that physicians were seeing as a result of occupants wearing lap-belt-only restraints in frontal collisions. These injuries typically include: (1) severe abdominal injuries, (2) fractures of the lumbar spine, and (3) serious closed head and facial injuries. These injuries are primarily the result of the occupant's body jackknifing over the lap belt, at the waist, during the collision. Under such circumstances, the lap belt causes extreme force to be applied along the pelvis to the mid-section of the occupant. Securing the waist without securing the upper torso leads to increased head and neck velocities, which can cause serious head and neck injuries following either a head strike or inertial loading of the spine. A majority of these injuries can be prevented by the installation of an integrated three-point belt or other upper-torso restraint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicMan Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 what type of results did you get from your research?http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:klyNRT...cd=10&gl=usThis is by the Colorado Department of Education."lap belts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:klyNRT...cd=10&gl=usThis is by the Colorado Department of Education.and it goes on to say...Large school buses use a passive restraint system known as Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 If your sister was riding in a private vehicle, she should have worn a seat belt. Period. The kids that were on the bus landed on it's side (the fact as to whether they were special needs is not relevant) and had relatively minor injuries. If this happened same accident happened in a car (SUV, Truck, etc) without belts, it would have resulted in more serious injuries, but with belts the injuries would have been not have been life threatening (taking in all the other factors, of course). i agree but buses are different than cars which is where the differences result IMO. NO? REALLY? I thought someone might have said that earlier.... No... yeah...I believe so. That's right, *I* said that it WAS different. While I'm not sure if the NTSB ever ran crash tests on school buses (but it would make sense if they did, but I can't find the relevent information yet.), but movements of a body in that type of restraints (lapbelts and lap and shoulder) or none, are basically the same, the only difference are the points of contact and the volume of area that the body is allowed to come to rest. It would be something along the lines of riding the dungeon drop type ride sideways using the shoulder or lap belt for safety,elevating 10-20 feet, and letting go. Yes, you'd wouldn't hit the ground if restrained, but you're going to be in a serious amount of hurt internally. Quite frankly, I think a broken arm is far more preferable to cracked or broken ribs, injured spines and such. I may not be a physics expert, but I am a thinker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 NO? REALLY? I thought someone might have said that earlier....No... yeah...I believe so.That's right, *I* said that it WAS different.when the thread was on school buses, i didn't understand how data from cars would apply. they are two different beasts and data can't be used for a vehicle that is designed significantly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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