East End BRT

[TheNiche]

I think that when all is said and done, its hard to argue with the straight shot down Richmond...if it weren't for special interests, nobody would care about the temporary impact on existing businesses that'll just pop right back up once construction is completed.

But with this one, which route is the preferred route where none is really perfect?

Even though I'd stand to personally benefit more from the line down Harrisburg, I'd prefer to see it go to Navigation. The reason is that even though warehouses are among the only things out there right now, those warehouses are on tracts of land that are often very large, very polluted, and very scenic along the portions that back up to the Buffalo Bayou. There's a lot of opportunity, but there needs to be something like this to anchor a transformation of the bayoufront into a residential enclave. My stance on this one carries quite a bit of risk to it, but I think that the reward is sufficient to accept that risk...and speculators have been amassing land in that area, just waiting for someone to light the fuse.

...on the other hand [self-serving side takes over], I'd love to be able to remove that freight rail corridor and drop in a BRT or LRT within six blocks of my new Eastwood residence. It'd probably give a boost to the proposed retail center at Harrisburg and Lockwood, too. Property values would skyrocket if those two amenities just dropped into Eastwood's back yard.

So what do you all think?

Link to METRO's Alternative Alignment Map

July 10, 2006, 2:12AM

EAST END ACCESS

Metro looking for right fit

A proposed rapid transit line on Harrisburg would mean changes to the thoroughfare

By RAD SALLEE

Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

NOISY protests over a possible light rail line on Richmond have eclipsed a quieter discussion of where to put rapid transit in the East End, a historic neighborhood in the midst of economic revival and on the threshold of gentrification.

Link to Article

Edited July 10, 2006 by TheNiche

[Guest danax]

According to the article, it looks like Harrisburg will be the route, and rightly so. It's the Westheimer of the East End (Eastheimer?). As much as I'd like to see Navigation get the development boost, running it up there would be silly, with so few riders right now. I could see that as an additional line in the future once density increases. The hike/bike trail should stay too.

[TheNiche]

As much as I'd like to see Navigation get the development boost, running it up there would be silly, with so few riders right now. I could see that as an additional line in the future once density increases.

But that's just the thing...density is unlikely to increase at all until there's a reason. This would be the reason.

[musicman]

But that's just the thing...density is unlikely to increase at all until there's a reason. This would be the reason.

I agree wtih Danax on this one. Justification for building on Navigation is not there yet. There are so many abandoned properties along the Main St rail currently. It has to be put where it would be utilized the most and since the ultimate destination is the Magnolia Transit Center, then Harrisburg is probably the best locale. But the comments from the article including high traffic volume should also be thought out carefully. There are numerous cross streets along this route some of which will be closed. Will closing these neighborhood streets cause MORE problems? Will it hinder access to neighborhoods by emergency vehicles? The current line doesn't really cut through neighborhoods so you'll have a different set of problems. I use the bike trail regularly so I don't want to see that go either.

I think METRO will have their hands full on this one with land acquisitions alone. There are MANY properties that basically front Harrisburg.

Edited July 10, 2006 by musicman

[TheNiche]

I agree wtih Danax on this one. Justification for building on Navigation is not there yet. There are so many abandoned properties along the Main St rail currently. It has to be put where it would be utilized the most and since the ultimate destination is the Magnolia Transit Center, then Harrisburg is probably the best locale. But the comments from the article including high traffic volume should also be thought out carefully. There are numerous cross streets along this route some of which will be closed. Will closing these neighborhood streets cause MORE problems? Will it hinder access to neighborhoods by emergency vehicles? The current line doesn't really cut through neighborhoods so you'll have a different set of problems. I use the bike trail regularly so I don't want to see that go either.

I think METRO will have their hands full on this one with land acquisitions alone. There are MANY properties that basically front Harrisburg.

I'd still prefer that METRO just relocate the transit center up to around Navigation and Wayside, then run the rail all the way down Broadway to Hobby. It'd be much cheaper and the marginal impact that it could potentially have is stupendous. I'm talking about many hundreds or possibly just over a thousand new townhomes built on large brownfield sites backing up to our unknown river...these are the kinds of sites that allow developers to experiment with mixed use projects on a scale large enough to matter. And if these developments look lucrative, it might motivate KBR to redevelop their 84 acres on the opposite bank. This is the kind of development that the East End would need to see in order to get a coveted H-E-B or Randall's.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

I'd still prefer that METRO just relocate the transit center up to around Navigation and Wayside, then run the rail all the way down Broadway to Hobby. It'd be much cheaper and the marginal impact that it could potentially have is stupendous. I'm talking about many hundreds or possibly just over a thousand new townhomes built on large brownfield sites backing up to our unknown river...these are the kinds of sites that allow developers to experiment with mixed use projects on a scale large enough to matter. And if these developments look lucrative, it might motivate KBR to redevelop their 84 acres on the opposite bank. This is the kind of development that the East End would need to see in order to get a coveted H-E-B or Randall's.

they got Fiesta's....

[H-Town Man]

I thought they had an HEB, in that older building along Harrisburg. This was a few years ago.

The Navigation line is tempting, but Harrisburg seems ideal for rail. It's kind of like Washington in that respect.

I'm a little skeptical of building a rail line to spur development, rather than to serve existing need. For one, it seems dishonest from a political standpoint. For another thing, isn't this what we heard about Main St.? All these properties just waiting to be redeveloped?

And for a third thing, are huge (most likely gated) townhome developments what we want along the bayou? It seems like a rail line would drive the property values up to a point where the city could never afford to acquire that land for parks, as called for in the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan. I'm not sure I want a string of Memorial Heightses in the East End.

[GovernorAggie]

I'm a little skeptical of building a rail line to spur development, rather than to serve existing need. For one, it seems dishonest from a political standpoint. For another thing, isn't this what we heard about Main St.? All these properties just waiting to be redeveloped?

While I see your point regarding dishonesty, wouldn't this apply to all public projects then? Build an airport to spur the economy. Extend utilities to spur development. Small towns fight over interchanges on a planned freeway because they want the Wal-Mart to pour tax dollars in their coffers.

At the same time, the airport could allow citizens to have better access to people, places, and markets. The utilities would improve service for those along it as well as at the end of it. The freeway would facilitiate move intercity and interstate travel.

LRT/GRT/BRT is the same. I can't understand why transit faces a different discrimination in Houston that any other mode of transportation, but it does. Freeways definitely serve a greater number of people, but I would argue that LRT/GRT/BRT serves people at a greater efficiency.

By the way, I hear people complaining about the Main St. Line being empty during parts of the day (like at 3 pm on Sundays). I drove the Katy Freeway at 2 am on a Saturday 3 weeks ago, and by golly, it was empty! I thought that I could get out and lie down for a few minutes in the middle lane! lol. This is a waste of $3 billion! This freeway should be packed bumper to bumper all day, every day!

[TheNiche]

I thought they had an HEB, in that older building along Harrisburg. This was a few years ago.

The Navigation line is tempting, but Harrisburg seems ideal for rail. It's kind of like Washington in that respect.

I'm a little skeptical of building a rail line to spur development, rather than to serve existing need. For one, it seems dishonest from a political standpoint. For another thing, isn't this what we heard about Main St.? All these properties just waiting to be redeveloped?

And for a third thing, are huge (most likely gated) townhome developments what we want along the bayou? It seems like a rail line would drive the property values up to a point where the city could never afford to acquire that land for parks, as called for in the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan. I'm not sure I want a string of Memorial Heightses in the East End.

I wish I could cite specific examples...one potentially TALL project in particular...but I'd breach confidentiality . Sorry folks. You're just going to have to trust me.

[gnu]

I thought they had an HEB, in that older building along Harrisburg. This was a few years ago.

It closed along with the HEB pantry at Bellfort when the new HEB Gulfgate opened.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

It closed along with the HEB pantry at Bellfort when the new HEB Gulfgate opened.

i think that another supermarket took its place....i will check tommorow on my way to UH..i also agree with most here that Harrisburg makes more sense than Navigation....there are already numerous LA hispanic style storefronts off of it and plenty of other properties that can be developed.

[musicman]

I drove the Katy Freeway at 2 am on a Saturday 3 weeks ago, and by golly, it was empty! I thought that I could get out and lie down for a few minutes in the middle lane! lol. This is a waste of $3 billion! This freeway should be packed bumper to bumper all day, every day!

That was the weekend the freeway was closed. ok i have some questions for you? Had you been drinking? Did you notice that you drove up the OFF ramp?

[TheNiche]

i think that another supermarket took its place....i will check tommorow on my way to UH..i also agree with most here that Harrisburg makes more sense than Navigation....there are already numerous LA hispanic style storefronts off of it and plenty of other properties that can be developed.

No, it got replaced with an automotive parts store. Autozone, I think.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

No, it got replaced with an automotive parts store. Autozone, I think.

yeah, you are right, i checket today...it's an Autozone. while traveling down harrisurg i also noticed a lot of plots of land that are for lease or sale facing the street..

[Trae]

Harrisburg is the best option. From there, it could turn south on Broadway, and down to Hobby.

I'm hoping for a LRT.

But, I think Navigation would be easier. It seems wider, and a simple right turn on Franklin will lead you to Navigation. Once at Hobby, a left at Airport will lead you to Highway 3. I think there should be another line down Highway 3. That line could lead you to basically Galveston. Don't know how far off I am on this line, though.

Edited July 12, 2006 by Trae

[gnu]

Harrisburg is the best option. From there, it could turn south on Broadway, and down to Hobby.

I'm hoping for a LRT.

But, I think Navigation would be easier. It seems wider, and a simple right turn on Franklin will lead you to Navigation. Once at Hobby, a left at Airport will lead you to Highway 3. I think there should be another line down Highway 3. That line could lead you to basically Galveston. Don't know how far off I am on this line, though.

no telling what will eventually happen but the east end line is supposed to stop at the magnolia park transit center - regardless of the route taken to get there.

wulfe has lobbied for it to continue on to Gulfgate. not sure if they mean to take it down evergreen or how they plan to get it there.

the southeast line is meant to eventually link up to hobby airport.

the first phase of the southeast is supposed to end at long/mykawa/griggs then when the next phase is built is was supposed to continue down long, right on telephone, left on airport to Hobby.

who knows how it will all shake out or if it will even happen

[GovernorAggie]

That was the weekend the freeway was closed. ok i have some questions for you? Had you been drinking? Did you notice that you drove up the OFF ramp?

Sorry, I don't partake of the fermented beverages. And yes, I was on the Katy, all the way from SH6 to downtown. Earlier that night around 10 pm, it still wasn't packed out around Fry Rd. where I was. Once again, A WASTE!!!

[TheNiche]

Harrisburg is the best option. From there, it could turn south on Broadway, and down to Hobby.

I'm hoping for a LRT.

But, I think Navigation would be easier. It seems wider, and a simple right turn on Franklin will lead you to Navigation. Once at Hobby, a left at Airport will lead you to Highway 3. I think there should be another line down Highway 3. That line could lead you to basically Galveston. Don't know how far off I am on this line, though.

Highway 3 will never be an LRT candidate. It lacks density and has barriers to new development (freight rail line). METRO is working on a commuter rail concept that would link Houston's proposed downtown intermodal station to Clear Lake and possibly to Galveston. That would be much more efficient and less expensive.

[T 2 THA C]

I work on Mlk @ Ost and today a women representing metro solutions stoped by to discuss the possible alternate alignment( coming down Wheeler st to Mlk to griggs and to stop @ PAlm Center. I must admit I am a little worried because when they built spur 5 and rebuilt ost along with that it affected our buisness, quite a bit, seeing as that you could not get to our parking lot from Ost.

Also im curious because Mlk Splits probably for a quarter of mile as you get to ost. If the brt/lrt goes down Mlk On the eastside it probably would not affect our buisness as much. Im not against rail, actiually im excited seeing that once they get rail down 290 I could catch a train straight to work and back.

From what the woman told me is Metro has Had alot of opposition from the Houses down scott st, which has made metro take a look at these alternates. Also she said that more riders would use it if it were to go down scott to griggs which I agree. She really did not take one side by giving positives from both. I have been in this area for a while now at least 15 years. From what I see the south east has prob the most metro riders in houston, thus I think it would be more feasible to go down scott. I am a lil worried not mad if they come down Mlk. She said they are having a meeting in August, not sure what date, but I will be sure to post as they have put me on a mailing list.

Edited July 14, 2006 by T 2 THA C

[The Voice of University Oaks]

It's official: the line is going down Harrisburg:

July 20, 2006, 11:32PM

Harrisburg selected for East End line

The route is scheduled to open in December 2010

By RAD SALLEE

Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

The Metropolitan Transit Authority board Thursday selected Harrisburg Boulevard for its future East End line.

It was the first specific route to be designated since the Metro Solutions long-term transit plan began with the Red Line on Main Street.

METRO selects Harrisburg

It's going to be a tight squeeze in a few areas, but I really think this is the best decision in terms of the number of businesses and residents potentially served. It also seems to have the most community support, judging from comments at METRO's recent East End public meetings.

Edited July 21, 2006 by The Voice of University Oaks

[ricco67]

This is excellent news, it's just a pity it's going to be a BRT line. I'm sure that ridership will enable it to convert to LRT in only a couple of years.

Initially I thought that the rail going along the hike and bike trails would have made sense, but as a child growing up near there, I remember that the freight trains were only moving at about 5-10 MPH, and the LRT's would have to move faster for it to be feasible.

And yes, I played on those tracks when I was younger as well, so I can understand their apprehension of that as well.

The question will be looking ahead, how does the conversion from BRT to LRT go?

[IHB2]

Initially I thought that the rail going along the hike and bike trails would have made sense, but as a child growing up near there, I remember that the freight trains were only moving at about 5-10 MPH, and the LRT's would have to move faster for it to be feasible.

And yes, I played on those tracks when I was younger as well, so I can understand their apprehension of that as well.

harrisburg makes sense.

and IMO the deal on that ROW, like the Wpark ROW, is it's a different set of problems for some relatively low # of freight trains/day passing a residence vs. LRT every few minutes 18-20 hrs/day.

I can see the logic in being worried if you lived a few feet from that many passing trains.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

so they will build a guideway first and then tear up the road to convert it to light rail tracks? or will both be built at the same time? Harrisburg was the reasonable choice...there are plenty of businesses on there and lots of empty lots where development can take place....so on what downtown stop will it start?

Edited July 21, 2006 by MexAmerican_Moose

[TheNiche]

so they will build a guideway first and then tear up the road to convert it to light rail tracks? or will both be built at the same time? Harrisburg was the reasonable choice...there are plenty of businesses on there and lots of empty lots where development can take place....so on what downtown stop will it start?

Reconstruction of Harrisburg will likely resemble that of Main Street in scope, although the specific operations will hopefully be more efficient. They'll install all of the LRT technology without the overhead electric wires and will just run BRT busses down the guideway until they've got enough ridership to purchase the LRT rail cars and cabling.

I don't know where the specific stops will be, but it will branch off of the Southeast BRT line coming out of downtown via Capitol Street.

[hokieone]

So the initial part done in 2010 doesn't include Hobby airport then does it? Seems like that would make this line a huge success if it did include the airport, but don't know if that is included in this initial stage. Still, if people can cab it to Mykawa/ Griggs and then rail it in, its still got to be cheaper than taking a cab the whole way. That or metro does a shuttle run from the rail to the airport.

[TheNiche]

So the initial part done in 2010 doesn't include Hobby airport then does it? Seems like that would make this line a huge success if it did include the airport, but don't know if that is included in this initial stage. Still, if people can cab it to Mykawa/ Griggs and then rail it in, its still got to be cheaper than taking a cab the whole way. That or metro does a shuttle run from the rail to the airport.

This line won't go to Mykawa/Griggs. It will end at the TC near Harrisburg and 75th.

[ricco67]

I think that could work, then it could eventually dip down, or maybe build a new rail along navigation or another path as demand warrents.

It was my impression that they were planning on going subway in the downtown portion, so I assume that's totally off the table?

[MexAmerican_Moose]

^^ i heard the same thing...sope people were complaining that another rail line going through downtown would increase traffic and mess things up

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I wonder how cost effective this BRT to LRT method is? Doesnt sound too good. Sounds like a twice payment for a single service........

[ricco67]

I wonder how cost effective this BRT to LRT method is? Doesnt sound too good. Sounds like a twice payment for a single service........

Well, it was mentioned that basically everything is installed except for the overhead power and of course, the various transformers and such, the BRT's run on guided routes LIKE a light rail. Once they decide to go the next step, they just put up the power lines, transformers and trains.

at least, that's how I see it.

The only real bright side that I see on this is this could be a way to leapfrog around the city on rail projects. Once the trains are introduced, the BRTs can be taken used on another portion, or maybe even entered on regular service?