A Downtown P.R. Virus Created Internally.

[mainvoice]

Immediately prior to light rail construction beginning downtown the area was at a point where it was getting ready to really take off in terms of growth, especially in the area of retail space becoming occupied space one way or another. There always seems to be a great debate about what the best use is for space but quite frankly think that we can all agree that it would be best having space filled with tenants or some "warm bodies" vs. having vacancies. I think money should be spent to appeal to mostly all business and not just some. I don't think that a little bit of money to lure only certain types is a quick fix solution. The monies should be spent on those wanting to do business downtown, today ! What are they waiting for ? Why not allow what works now to move ahead.Downtown can evolve once it gets a chance to pick up where it left off prior to light rail construction. There is always going to be fallout, but there will also be different cycles as time goes on that we should tune into. The horse that Houston road in with a while back when things were starting to take off was bars,clubs, and restaurants. I understand the mentality behind when you build a beautiful 3 block shopping center like downtown has never seen perhaps before for $300 million dollars or so that there is a high probability that the space immediately across the street from it will have a pretty good chance of leasing as well. (Sakowitz) I'm down with that point. What about the rest of downtown and a lot of the smaller places on the opposite end and surrounding sides. I don't think limiting one type of group is going to discourage others in an area that needs some warm bodies occupying space. This coupled by the fact that there is not even anything existing (not Much) that's not in a mall in the way of clothing stores for the 140,000 day working downtown each day anyway again on street level. In fact the majority of the business population occupying retail space are bars, and clubs. What is wrong with having more and more of these downtown anyway ? Having more of these bar/clubs would help the places that are already there(and the area) by drawing more people to the area. Especially if most of the people coming downtown to work represent effectively a daytime population, again due in my opinion as a direct result of not advertising the area on an on-going basis to the rest of the city. Making this daytime population also more of a night time population can be solved by promoting the area. We can build and build downtown which is great and beautify it but lets take the time to tell people it's there. Promotion of the downtown area is way past due and would be huge. By trying to restrict in a round about way and discourage certain types it is impacting those that are existing to suffer indirectly. Competition is good, and vacanct space is not and it brings lots of other problems. So I suggest that we appeal to what we know would probably work right now (bars/clubs/restaurant types) and encourage them to the area. Start welcoming them back. The other retailers are most certainly welcome, but where are they located now on street level downtown ? Please don't get me wrong I think the other retailers would work and would in fact do very well but I believe they feel it is perhaps too speculative for some partly due to the vacancies that they would ordinarily filled with their competitors stores. Strengthining the market is only going to help at this point.There is nothing wrong with having a good time downtown for now if thats the card the market deals in terms of tenants. Once growth picks up again other retailers will follow I'm sure of it. I am all for other types of retailers also, but where are they. They are not beating down the doors to go downtown. Downtown sure seems like a natural for simply picking back up where it left off prior to the light rail with bars/clubs. The other retailers will follow in the process. It seems that there is an effort indirectly to discourage bar/club growth. There was some rule created I believe that makes you basically drunk in public if the polcie think you are acting too loud? I'm sure you know what I mean if you live in Houston. On a local tv station during the news last year there was footage broadcasted from a downtown bar, I believe it was during an Astros world series game to to mention this new p.i. law. That's not a great way to promote downtown. Note that as I am writing this I am referring specifically to the retail real estate market, and not to the office building market which is doing very well and tightening up. Which is partly why it just doesn't make sense that the downtown retail market isn't hotter than a $2. pistol -already. Anyway, during the construction period more and more started becoming interested in Midtown as a result of the light rail construction. The Midtown area accomodated the demand that downtown couldn't accomodate at the time due to the construction.This is great because now downtown has a much higher residential base close by because of this.Midtown is a residential area and was not intended nor can it accomodate the type of commercial use which downtown was created for with all of its sports venues, theaters, etc. I think Midtown will peak out soon from a commercial standpoint and that the smart money is trying to dig into downtown. However Midtown's residential base will in my opinion continue to grow fueling downtown futher. I think

people in Midtown will eventually not want to have to listen to loud music all night long, and deal with congestion in their neighborhood. The "fickle 500" loves to migrate, so keep posted.It has been several years since construction of the light rail

has been completed. Has there been a formal announcement made or any kind of effort to tell people to come back downtown again, and just how nice it has become ? Does there need to be "a light rail is over party " for all of the retailers down there to acknowledge this fact along with the rest of the city, so that people can come up above ground for some fresh air and sunlight? There should be people flocking downtown to throw down and open up shop. Is there any steady on-going promotion or advertisment of the area ? Do you know what Houston Pavilions is ? What's Sakowitz ? These are both great

projects, and demonstrate that the area just needs a little spark coupled with something being developed that actually will have real appeal to consumers and those working down there that are looking perhaps for those types of retail shops, and restaurant,clubs, bars that they for now mostly have to drive back home to enjoy. This is why some of this development is way past-due past-due for Houston and again why it should do so very well.Do you think the majority of the people in this city hear enough about the downtown area to be aware of all that exists and that is being developed ?Where is the effort to promote the area as a whole ? It's almost as if there needs to be a re-grand opening day of downtown in order to raise public awareness of all the neat and interesting things already in place downtown to do for these 140,000 people that come downtown everyday to perhaps stay a while after work and shop. Yes, it's great to promote all of the new things coming along for maybe a day at best ... but also ask where is the promotion vehicle behind all of the hard work completed downtown and the existing business base already in place ? Unless you are standing down there you may not hear about what all is going on and there is a lot. Projects can come along and get completed, but unless there is an effort to promote on an on-going basis the area is not realizing its maximum benefits. A lot of these projects were after all being centrally located (CBD) created for the people of the city of houston and for tourists, and visitors. So if all of this work is done to enhance the area and for the people of the city then why isn't it getting put out there in some way, shape or form that actually gets the word out and not a bunch of stuff nobody hears about ? There is a commercial running on tv that i have seen that is actually a condo-sales company(i believe) that is better than all the efforts combined thus far to get downtown in the spot light. Why aren't people being told about all that downtown has to offer ? It's unbelievable that is has the demographics that it does, it's centrally located, has an office market with high occupancies and app. over 3 x larger than that of the galleria area, and yet somehow has internally been managed to isolate itself from even the 140,000 people to an extent that frequent the area everyday that don't either hear enough "positive" info. or anything at all for that matter. It's as if there has been almost more of an effort placed on how to get 140,000 people in and out of downtown everyday "blind-folded". It has some of the makings of a good magic trick if you ask me. How silly is that all because of a lack of significant on-going self- promotion of the area taking place. If the city would spend the equivalent of perhaps the salary of 2 city employees a year to promote the area with television commercials then they would in turn more than pay for themselves in terms of business and benefits realized. The city likes to charge taxes and increase them. This will help them do this while benefiting all those concerned and utilizing the amenities the area has to offer fostering new growth into the area. How hard is that to do versus no promotion ? What's the point of having all of this great stuff if nobody knows about it ? The demand is already downtown and needs to be connected to these types of people as well. I do think clubs and restaurants are important also and even though some would say there are many, there still needs to be many more and especially some name brands or chains that will draw those people out from there building a couple of blocks or so to eat,etc. The fact is that there are hardly enough recognizable "franchised" restaurants nor clubs/bars for that matter located above ground on street level. Some of the clubs,bars just don't appeal to the people working down there. I think the first franchised types to dive in are going to do very well because there simply aren't enough recognizable clubs, restaurants, or bars that anyone recognizes again-on street level. Having some of these franchises come in will create a sense of comfort among those working downtown that are afraid perhaps of what they are going to find when they enter. On an internal level it is the bad p.r. that operators in the downtown area are guilty of creating un-knowingly.Even today if you were to speak to a club promoter about the downtown area they might tell you that it is "ghetto" or something along those lines at night. The types always seem very quick and eager to put a negative spin on things in the area,etc. Promoters were brought into the area to increase business during the slow periods,especially during the light rail construction period. The light rail has come and gone yet these guys still talk about it, and are quick to point out all the problems etc. If I didn't know any better I would think the light rail construction was still going on downtown.This is true, after $4Billion in growth in the downtown they still have the nerve to say it "ghetto". It's not downtown that is "ghetto" it is these "ghetto" operators that appeal to the lowest common denominators that are "ghetto" and are partly to blame for this. The bars and clubs did what they could to survive during the construction period, which is admirable. They complained because they were paying high rents that they locked into probably right when things were starting to take off right before the light rail. Then all of a sudden, things got really slow. I don't think that they realized though that over the years they created their own "virus" , but not intentionally in my opinion. What I mean is that they got into the habit of repeatedly complaining about everything either in an effort to get out of a lease due to slow times or to negotiate lower rents on upon the renewals of their leases,etc. The problem with this is that with 150-200 +/- clubs, bars, restaurants, in downtown and an average of 10-15 employees they had launched a negative p.r. campaign which has back fired and caught up with them. If you multiply the total # of clubs, bars, restaurants and multiply it by the amount of staff in those places then you have in the neighborhood of 1,500-3,000 people who are going around spreading negativety about the area and in turn telling 3-5 of their friends how bad it is and not to come party downtown,etc. Anybody with any kind of common sense can see that this is a really easy quick fix that can be done from within by educating those folks that work at the bars,restaurants, clubs about the area in a positive format. Day to day issues should be handled through the pro-active organizations in the area developed to address most of the issues that they have on a day to day basis. Some of them really petty in my opinion. The operators need to get it through their heads that they need to work on this internal problem that has become costly to them and lead some of them out of business and might have others following closely behind because of this ignorance.

A

Promoter in the area will probably bash the area if you talk to them, but yet they are hired by these places to bring in customers ? The reason for this in my opinion is because basically a lot of them that have just sprouted up in the area over the years riding the light rail construction into the next decade would find themselves without a job really quick if things were going well. Correct ? You don't hear a whole lot about promoters in the galleria area do you ? Clubs shouldn't have to always have promoters anyway. I think that the first wave or re-surgeance of new development were the club and bar operators that arrived prior to light rail construction and that are there now. I think that the downtown area is great. I think that the downtown area should allow it to basically pick up where it left off and allow all the new bars clubs etc. that are choosing to go to midtown should be welcomed to downtown. I think occupied space is better than vacant spaces, and it would serve downtown well to be allowed to go through the natural cycle it was going through prior to light rail construction instead of trying to skip steps and cherry pick the retailers. Obviously, with 140,000 people a day coming to work everyday things are good. Some of the clubs,bars over the years though became in the habit of catering to the lowest common denominator though and they still do. The office building market is actually very strong downtown. Do you think that most of the people that come to downtown everyday might want to have places that cater to them and clubs/bars that do also. The demographics downtown are very strong. There are an estimated 3,500 people living down there with a lot of projects on line, and a 140,000/day working downtown. Downtown has a real organic culture and this coupled with the all the office buildings, retail developments, new residential developments, parks, clubs/restaurants, a little common sense might make a big difference if the bars, clubs, and restaurants could pull together and put a stop to this negative campaign"virus" that (some ) of these places have created, while developing a method to promote the area as a whole. The bottom line is that downtown needs to support and promote downtown in a postive way and get the word out about all it has to offer.

[TJones]

It's gonna take me a week to get through this one. It is so long, it has to have some meaning, so I will read it.

[TheNiche]

I'm sure you've got some great things to say, but would you mind going back and breaking up your post into more manageable paragraphs? Although I've been known to write some essays, myself, I have trouble processing such a massive block of uninterrupted text.

[musicman]

One thing that has hurt MANY clubs is that they are leasing space from people who keep raising rents. The ones who own their spaces outright have more control such as La Carafe, Warren's, etc. EVERy "new" place has open and closed except Mia Bella. There really aren't that many particularly outstanding bars and clubs. Drinks are expensive and weak. I've been to some of the clubs in Midtown. Nothing special either.

[Houston19514]

EVERy "new" place has open and closed except Mia Bella.

True, unless you consider

Bossa

and Cabo

and Cafe Express

and Cava Bistro

and El Rey

and the Flying Saucer

and Frank's Pizzeria

and Live Sports Cafe

and Sambuca

and St. Pete's Dancing Marlin

and Zula

and Mantra

and Slainte Irish Pub

and Boaka Bar

and Mercury Room . . .

[mainvoice]

One thing that has hurt MANY clubs is that they are leasing space from people who keep raising rents. The ones who own their spaces outright have more control such as La Carafe, Warren's, etc. EVERy "new" place has open and closed except Mia Bella. There really aren't that many particularly outstanding bars and clubs. Drinks are expensive and weak. I've been to some of the clubs in Midtown. Nothing special either.

I think its the battle cry of the non-amazing places to complain about rent. I think that some stay because the rent is lower than other parts of the city at this time. The problem might be that there are clubs that appeal to the lowest common denominator basically. How can some of them continue to make it if they are targeting kids coming downtown with maybe $20. in their pocket to spend all evening ? After parking that might leave $10-$12. bucks for the club operators to fight over. You made a good point about looking at what really works downtown and has real lasting power. Maybe downtown could use more places like La Carafe, Warren's, and Mia-Bellas instead of a bunch of (moonwalk) dance clubs that drag the area down.

[musicman]

True, unless you consider

Bossa

and Cabo

and Cafe Express

and Cava Bistro

and El Rey

and the Flying Saucer

and Frank's Pizzeria

and Live Sports Cafe

and Sambuca

and St. Pete's Dancing Marlin

and Zula

and Mantra

and Slainte Irish Pub

and Boaka Bar

and Mercury Room . . .

yeah but many of these are already 2nd incarnations. will give you franks , st pete's and cava though.

Maybe downtown could use more places like La Carafe, Warren's, and Mia-Bellas instead of a bunch of (moonwalk) dance clubs that drag the area down.

yes cause the patrons that frequent the dance clubs are cheap and don't really tip well. i've seen people order 5 shaken drinks at warren's and leave 1 dollar tip! ridiculous

[mainvoice]

yeah but many of these are already 2nd incarnations. will give you franks , st pete's and cava though.

yes cause the patrons that frequent the dance clubs are cheap and don't really tip well. i've seen people order 5 shaken drink's at warren's and leave 1 dollar tip! ridiculous

The Whiskey, Clarks, Deans, and Sevauge are cool also.

The Whiskey, Clarks, Deans, and Sevauge are cool also.

ps- don't leave off Venue who is setting a new standard for high end clubs downtown that was needed.

I'm sure you've got some great things to say, but would you mind going back and breaking up your post into more manageable paragraphs? Although I've been known to write some essays, myself, I have trouble processing such a massive block of uninterrupted text.

Try reading a little bit at a time and taking a break to stretch every 1/2 hour. (ha-ha)

[editor]

True, unless you consider

and the Flying Saucer

and Frank's Pizzeria

and Sambuca

and St. Pete's Dancing Marlin

and Slainte Irish Pub

and Boaka Bar

and Mercury Room . . .

I don't consider any of these "new" since many were there when I moved to Houston in 1999, and all were there when I left almost three years ago.

[musicman]

I don't consider any of these "new" since many were there when I moved to Houston in 1999, and all were there when I left almost three years ago.

i'm from old school Downtown I guess. The places mentioned were not there when I started going downtown. I'd venture to say most haven't even been there 5 yrs. I think Dean's is about to hit its 10 yr mark if i remember correctly. After hours that used to be the place to be.

[editor]

i'm from old school Downtown I guess. The places mentioned were not there when I started going downtown. I'd venture to say most haven't even been there 5 yrs. I think Dean's is about to hit its 10 yr mark if i remember correctly. After hours that used to be the place to be.

Last week my wife tried to convince me to stop in Houston on my way home from Atlanta to pick up from pepperoni rolls from Frank's. Now THAT's a loyal customer.

I wish there was a way to get them sent up here.

[mainvoice]

Last week my wife tried to convince me to stop in Houston on my way home from Atlanta to pick up from pepperoni rolls from Frank's. Now THAT's a loyal customer.

I wish there was a way to get them sent up here.

I just wanted to say that I was venting a bit when i initiated the initial discussion. (very long)

[musicman]

Last week my wife tried to convince me to stop in Houston on my way home from Atlanta to pick up from pepperoni rolls from Frank's. Now THAT's a loyal customer.

I wish there was a way to get them sent up here.

FYI the latest "Frank" sold out. These are the 3rd owners that i've known of. Ate a pizza last night. pretty good still.

[mainvoice]

FYI the latest "Frank" sold out. These are the 3rd owners that i've known of. Ate a pizza last night. pretty good still.

That tends to be a good sign when a business is able to sell. It is very hard to sell a business that is not profitable. Glad to hear it's still around and doing well.

[Houston19514]

yeah but many of these are already 2nd incarnations. will give you franks , st pete's and cava though.

Which of the listed establishments are "2nd incarnations"? I think very few of them are.

[musicman]

Which of the listed establishments are "2nd incarnations"? I think very few of them are.

i'm including mgmt changes. The businesses that know how to make it downtown have opened up other ideas. like the owners of St Pete's own El Centro as well. owners of mia bella own cava. owners of la carafe own warrens. owners of notsuoh bought Deans or Clarks, forget which one. Mercury and Boaka are the same. It is almost a little family. Bossa was a TGIFridays owned restaurant but now another company runs it.

[Houston19514]

i'm including mgmt changes. The businesses that know how to make it downtown have opened up other ideas. like the owners of St Pete's own El Centro as well. owners of mia bella own cava. owners of la carafe own warrens. owners of notsuoh bought Deans or Clarks, forget which one. Mercury and Boaka are the same. It is almost a little family. Bossa was a TGIFridays owned restaurant but now another company runs it.

Oh, I see we're using an evolving definition of the phrase "opened and closed". (Remember, you started this off by declaring flatly that "EVERy "new" place has open and closed except Mia Bella.") Heck, if we're including management changes, why not go ahead and include shift changes too. ;-)

[mainvoice]

Oh, I see we're using an evolving definition of the phrase "opened and closed". (Remember, you started this off by declaring flatly that "EVERy "new" place has open and closed except Mia Bella.") Heck, if we're including management changes, why not go ahead and include shift changes too. ;-)

yes and please add 3 NEW clubs (not associated with others in the area) have opened this month with a 4th NEW club scheduled to open this month. See the other posting for more info.