christians suck!

[new major on the block]

lol

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I told her "I'm Jewish and cannot accept it". She had this upset look on her face when I told her that. She responded with "well, sorry for trying to help you!" real sarcastically.

You should see the reaction the Farrakhan followers get when they approach my car and try to give me the news paper thingy they push when i tell them i am Jewish. One of the guys looked at me with pure horror and then threw the paper into my car window. Amazing. He then yelled that there is an interesting bit of news i should read in there.......It was a piece on jews, black jews that are just as bad if not worst than the white jews. I laughed so freaking hard when i saw that. That was a few years ago, havent had any encounters with them lately

[nmainguy]

I tell anyone who comes to my door pushing church that I'll listen to their speech about God if they'll listen to my speech about Satan, but I get to go first.

I haven't had any takers.

When we were kids and the JW's would come to the door, my mom would always be polite and say "No thank you" as she was closing the door. But if they persisted she would pull the door back, give them the sadest look she could muster and say something like "My parents were murdered this morning and we're trying to make arrangements". They always left immediatly. Something else she would do-a little off topic-is when telemarketers would call, she'd act like there was static on the line-"I can't hear you...hang on"-take the receiver and bang it hard on the counter top a few times. They always hung up. I just loved my mom for antics like that. I bet she's keeping Jesus in stiches.

[bachanon]

When we were kids and the JW's would come to the door, my mom would always be polite and say "No thank you" as she was closing the door. But if they persisted she would pull the door back, give them the sadest look she could muster and say something like "My parents were murdered this morning and we're trying to make arrangements". They always left immediatly. Something else she would do-a little off topic-is when telemarketers would call, she'd act like there was static on the line-"I can't hear you...hang on"-take the receiver and bang it hard on the counter top a few times. They always hung up. I just loved my mom for antics like that. I bet she's keeping Jesus in stiches.

i had the JWs come to my door once and i told them i was busy. i hurriedly said "sure" when they offered to come another day. darnit, they came another day. this happened to be a mimosa morning in the mid nineties. when i realized who they were, i threw skinny puppy in the cd player (kinda loud) before i opened the door. i was naughty that day. i never mentioned that i was a christian or had any beliefs whatsoever. i simply glared at them, sipping my mimosa, answering each questions with a simple "uh huh", "really", "yeah". they wrapped it up in less than five minutes.

[gwilson]

The gay protestors, the pat robinsons, the westborough baptist types ARE NOT BEHAVING LIKE CHRISTIANS.

They can claim to be all they like, but the fact of the matter is they are not.

Don't lump them in to the noble majority.

[nmainguy]

The gay protestors, the pat robinsons, the westborough baptist types ARE NOT BEHAVING LIKE CHRISTIANS.

They can claim to be all they like, but the fact of the matter is they are not.

Don't lump them in to the noble majority.

Perhaps the noble majority should speak out in a loader voice otherwise you will be lumped into the vocal minority.

[TheNiche]

Perhaps the noble majority should speak out in a loader voice otherwise you will be lumped into the vocal minority.

Hmmm...it seems like one of the aspects that makes the 'noble majority' noble is that they aren't too vocal, preachy, or otherwise obnoxious. Seems like the solution might ruin the cause.

Its a noggin scratcher, though...

[TJones]

Perhaps the noble majority should speak out in a loader voice otherwise you will be lumped into the vocal minority.

I am none of the things wilson described, would you lump me into that group also, and I'm one of the most conservative people you know. Just not Ultra consevative like those Yahoos ! I just refuse to support that type of ticket.

Problem is no matter how high you guys want to put me on a pedestal, I am not all that noble ! Sorry to break hearts like that and ruin everyone's perception of me.

SHhhhhhhhh........nmain I know what you are thinking, don't spoil this, I know you agree with the first part, but some readers are actually believing the second part.

[gwilson]

This is the same argument that supports racism and other forms of hate.

Perhaps the ACTIONS of the noble majority speak louder than the words of the vocal minority to those willing to listen.

[nmainguy]

SHhhhhhhhh........nmain I know what you are thinking, don't spoil this, I know you agree with the first part, but some readers are actually believing the second part.

Nobility is not keeping quiet and allowing yourself to be defined by the minority. That sounds more like martyrdom than noblity. I think it's your duty to quietly yet forcefully speak up instead of letting others speak in your name-especially when you know they are wrong. To stand up to them is not obnoxious or preachy. It is an affirmation of your beliefs. It is also called growing a spine.

[nmainguy]

This is the same argument that supports racism and other forms of hate.

Perhaps the ACTIONS of the noble majority speak louder than the words of the vocal minority to those willing to listen.

It's not clear where you are going with this. It seems the noble majority is more for human rights and racial, social and economic equality as preached in the bible. The vocal minority seems to fall more into the Ann Coulter line of "thinking".

Robert S. McElvaine, History News Network

In Godless, her latest and most ill-tempered book-length rant, Ann Coulter

asserts that liberalism is a "godless" religion. In fact, however, the most

fundamental problem in Christianity in America and the world today is that

the

"fundamentalist" religion that most loudly proclaims itself to be

"Christian" is

Jesusless.

Coulter demonstrates how Jesusless she and her cohort who have co-opted the

name of Christianity are when she identifies "Americans' Christian destiny"

as

"jet skis, steak on the electric grill, hot showers, and night skiing." For

some reason, she fails to cite her source in the Gospels for her definition

of

Christian destiny, which amounts to: Jesus died for our jet skis.

Read the Gospels from beginning to end and nowhere will you find Jesus

suggesting anything like what Coulter sees as the destiny of Christians.

Quite the

contrary. Indeed, there is no source in anything Jesus said for most of what

the best-known "Christians" preach in his name these days. While Coulter

fumes

that "liberalism is the opposition party to God," the clear truth is that

what

passes for "Christianity" today is the opposition party to Jesus. She

attacks

"the liberal hostility to God-based religions" while exposing her own

hostility to Jesus-based religion.

As has been widely reported, Coulter offers "Christian" sentiments about

widows of 9/11 victims who are not on her side politically: "These broads

are

millionaires, lionized on TV and in articles about them, reveling in their

status

as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzis," the millionaire TV celebrity

and

right-wing lioness Coulter hisses. "I've never seen people enjoying their

husbands' deaths so much." If Jesus had remained in his grave, surely he

would be

spinning in it to hear such evil venom being spit out in his name.

"Christians" of the sort who buy Coulter's books call themselves

"fundamentalists," but their emphasis is entirely upon the word's first

syllable; they're

all about having fun. But when it comes to the fundamental teachings of

Jesus,

they take a pass. Turn the other cheek? Self-sacrifice? Help the poor?

Nonviolence? That stuff's too hard. They replace the Gospel accounts of what

Jesus

said with the Gospel according to John and Paul (Lennon and McCartney, that

is): "Give me money / That's what I want."

The Church of Coulter -- and that of the loudest "Christians" today --

should

be called what it plainly is: Jesusless: The Church of Mammon. Coulter makes

millions by calling others treasonous and Godless and saying, "We should

invade [Muslim]countries, kill their leaders and convert them to

Christianity."

Conversion should start at home, and Coulter first needs to convert herself

from

Mammonism to Christianity.

Like many others in the increasingly dominant and totally misnamed

"Christian

Right," Coulter has a persecution complex. Upon the publication of Godless,

she used her syndicated column to write a self-review of her book, saying it

would be ignored: "If you find Godless without asking for assistance, it's

considered a minor miracle." This from a woman whose new Jesusless book was

at that

very moment rising to Number 1 on the New York Times Best Seller list. (That

such a patently anti-Jesus book could become the best-selling book in

America

tells us just how far removed from being followers of Christ most of today's

self-proclaimed Christians are.) She's lamenting all the way to the bank,

her

house of worship.

In my opinion, those who complain about a "War on Christianity" are right.

The generals conducting that war include, in addition to

Kill-a-Muslim-for-Christ Coulter, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ted Haggard,

James Dobson, and the

whole Unheavenly Host of televangelists and megachurch moneychangers and

wolves

in sheep's clothing who have expropriated the moral assets of Jesus and

turned

them to their own purposes. They never met a dollar they didn't like. They

prefer profits to prophecy and pretend that Jesus did, too. They favor the

rich

over the poor and invert Jesus to contend that he did, too. They favor war

over peace and lie by saying that Jesus did, too.

Coulter and millions of her fellow adherents to ChristianityLite -- a

"religion" that is the equivalent of a "Lose weight without diet or

exercise" scam

("Easy Jesus! Be saved without sacrifice or good works!") -- have aborted

Jesus

and rewritten his teachings to suit their own selfish desires. Their

revision

of the Beatitudes -- what we might call the Be-Ann-itudes -- goes something

like this:

Blessed are the haughty in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who exult over others, for they shall be further rewarded.

Blessed are the arrogant, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for domination, for they shall be

satisfied.

Blessed are those who show no mercy, for they shall obtain the wealth of

others.

Blessed are the hard in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the war-makers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Blessed are those who persecute for their own sake, for theirs is the

kingdom

of heaven.

Blessed are you when you revile others and persecute others and utter all

sorts of evil against them falsely on my account.

Onward Jesusless "Christian" soldiers, marching others into war.

Robert S. McElvaine teaches history at Millsaps College and is the author of

Eve's Seed (McGraw-Hill). He is currently completing a book manuscript

entitled ChristianityLite: Getting to Heaven without the Hassle.

Source: History News Network

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/27486.html

[TheNiche]

Nobility is not keeping quiet and allowing yourself to be defined by the minority. That sounds more like martyrdom than noblity. I think it's your duty to quietly yet forcefully speak up instead of letting others speak in your name-especially when you know they are wrong. To stand up to them is not obnoxious or preachy. It is an affirmation of your beliefs. It is also called growing a spine.

Here's the conundrum, though:

Who among the 'noble majority' would be the voice of the masses? Who is the figurehead that the media is drawn to...that gets to appear on Larry King Live ? Who creates the excitement and buzz necessary to gain the attention of those that are not noble-yet-silent Christians? Honestly...who is qualified?

I would propose that there is a great deal of diversity of thought regarding the Christian religion, and putting one person (or even a panel of people) up in front of the cameras would be insufficient to adequately represent even the most basic of a great number of people's personal beliefs.

Moreover, they just wouldn't get attention because they aren't radical and completely unreasonable enough. The media will never cover the story about Christians trying to be...Christian. Its dull. They'd rather cover Jesse Jackson, Pat Robertson, or Ann Coulter (the loud minority). Honestly, can you imagine Mr. No-name minister pulling a news crew from CNN because he wants to announce that his congregation has unanimously pledged to do X number of hours of community service? ...Or because he has a reasonable interpretation of the Bible? It isn't happening and it isn't going to happen.

So, from the perspective of the 'noble majority', perhaps media attention is not expected...or even necessarily desired. Perhaps the best route is simply to try and be the best individual Christians that they can be. Lead by example...eventually someone will notice. Its not the most ideal environment, but the solution to the problem would corrupt the very cause being promoted.

[713 To 214]

Ever wonder why biblical characters don't have their last names mentioned in the book?

[TJones]

Niche, I agree with alot of what you say, especially the attention not being wanted, those that are "noble" don't do it for publicity, they do it for others and a "higher power". The minorities, on both sides, are cited all the time because there is always something in it for them, and that is what the press loves, and cooky comments and skewed points of views expressed vocally SELLS !

Nmain, I always see your side of things, and I also agree with most things you hold to be true, you always think before you speak. I think the problems we both have is that we are always trying to hold up the vocal minority in our given party choices as the litmus for the rest of people in each other's political lines. When unlike most, although it is true for the majority on this forum, that we look at each event as it is presented and make up our own minds what the value of the evidence is.

[houstonmacbro]

no. i've been visiting fellowship of the woodlands and enjoying a particular small group and the job support ministry. these people are great. they are completely different from the hard-ass, legalistic, world that i grew up in. i'm also reconnecting with friends from the gay community who might not feel so welcome in the circles i benefit from. there is a stark contrast between these two worlds and it irks me. i had some friends up for the woodlands waterway arts festival yesterday and we had a difficult conversation over gay marriage and gay adoption. we all have gay friends and some in our group are gay. i'm having a hard time comparing and contrasting the genuine compassion i receive from the local woodlands community and the hardships i see in the gay, minority and/or poor communities.

my rant is purely internal. creating a thread in this internet forum is simply a venting mechanism. your opinions are greatly appreciated.

i think the things that bother me most about so-called 'christians' is that they feel they have a lock on God. first of all, if God is that small-minded and human acting, i doubt i want very much do with with Him/Her. they have made Him into this angry, white, zeus-like figure up in the clouds somewhere that doesn't love us, but just waits for us to stumble so that He can send us to everlasting helll and fire.

i am sorry, the God i worship, loves me. He lives INSIDE me and helps me to understand Him and others around me. He does not judge, but He loves.

those so-called 'christians' can keep their small, hate-filled, scared little god ... i'll keep worshipping my loving God.

i'd advise anyone to reject those notions of god, and learn to accept your God who loves you. stop letting others define who God is. you already know.

[TheNiche]

I don't have anything against you macbro, but you just accidentally validated my point.

i'd advise anyone to reject those notions of god

stop letting others define who God is.

This is one example of how well-intentioned Christians are probably best off minding themselves rather than preaching to an audience.

This is one reason that I don't go to church...of course, the other more applicable reason is that I'm non-theistic (different from atheistic because I don't reject the notion of God and accept nothing more or less that total and complete uncertainty).

[houstonmacbro]

i think we've got a helluva lot in common actually.

I have been to Methodist Episcopal Baptist and Catholic services. The Catholic services were a bit sedate, very reverent. The Methodist and Episcopal were different.......... The Baptist, wow! Very interesting. Didnt seem to have many dull moments and kept my attention :)

lately i have really been enjoying my visits to unity church of christianity.

[escapee]

I don't have anything against you macbro, but you just accidentally validated my point.

This is one example of how well-intentioned Christians are probably best off minding themselves rather than preaching to an audience.

This is one reason that I don't go to church...of course, the other more applicable reason is that I'm non-theistic (different from atheistic because I don't reject the notion of God and accept nothing more or less that total and complete uncertainty).

Religion is for people who are afraid they are going to hell. Spirituality is for those of us who have already been there.

[nmainguy]

Religion is for people who are afraid they are going to hell. Spirituality is for those of us who have already been there.

...and back again.

Good one, escapee.

[escapee]

...and back again.

Good one, escapee.

You're welcome. That's a little truism that comes from the groups in AA. It's not part of the official, sanctioned teachings. We spend quite a bit of time talking about concept of a Higher Power. Personally, the God of my choice and my understanding, has no negative human qualities. He is not envious, judgemental, angry, or vidictive. I believe that when I do something "wrong," that is.... contrary to the laws of nature (lying, cheating, stealing, etc) He is sad for me because he knows that there will be natural consequences to my actions. Hopefully, these will be learning experiences.

I was always taught that I should be good out of fear that something bad will happen to me if I weren't. Now, with the concept I have of a loving God, I want to behave out of love for Him and all He's given me and done for me, finally understanding that happiness is a direct result of right living.

One of the biggest gifts I ever recieved is the knowledge that I can decide for myself what God is and isn't. After all, so far as we know, nobody has ever looked upon the face of God and lived to tell about it. So, in my view, my concept is as good as the Pope's or anybody else's. I also believe that I don't need an intermediary between me and my God. And since I don't believe that there is such a thing as an eternal hell (the one I created on the earth is quite enough) or a heaven, then I don't buy into needing to "be saved." To me, organized religion is all about controlling thru fear. Control for power, money, and influence.

I just hope there isn't a modern Crusade coming to a city near me. The atrocities that have been committed in the name of _______________ !!!

(choose any diety)

End of rant for now.

Thanks for sharing

Escapee

[houstonmacbro]

You're welcome. That's a little truism that comes from the groups in AA. It's not part of the official, sanctioned teachings. We spend quite a bit of time talking about concept of a Higher Power. Personally, the God of my choice and my understanding, has no negative human qualities. He is not envious, judgemental, angry, or vidictive. I believe that when I do something "wrong," that is.... contrary to the laws of nature (lying, cheating, stealing, etc) He is sad for me because he knows that there will be natural consequences to my actions. Hopefully, these will be learning experiences.

I was always taught that I should be good out of fear that something bad will happen to me if I weren't. Now, with the concept I have of a loving God, I want to behave out of love for Him and all He's given me and done for me, finally understanding that happiness is a direct result of right living.

One of the biggest gifts I ever recieved is the knowledge that I can decide for myself what God is and isn't. After all, so far as we know, nobody has ever looked upon the face of God and lived to tell about it. So, in my view, my concept is as good as the Pope's or anybody else's. I also believe that I don't need an intermediary between me and my God. And since I don't believe that there is such a thing as an eternal hell (the one I created on the earth is quite enough) or a heaven, then I don't buy into needing to "be saved." To me, organized religion is all about controlling thru fear. Control for power, money, and influence.

I just hope there isn't a modern Crusade coming to a city near me. The atrocities that have been committed in the name of _______________ !!!

(choose any diety)

End of rant for now.

Thanks for sharing

Escapee

amen!

[ssullivan]

Interesting thread. Somehow I had missed it until now.

Like others on here, I grew up Methodist, and didn't have a lot of the hellfire and brimstone stuff. Instead I was always taught that faith is a journey that requires thinking, study, and developing some of your own conclusions. I have never believed that there is only one way, yet I do profess to be Christian. There was a time when I really questioned my beliefs, and for a while I had a hard time reconciling who I knew myself to be, including the fact that I'm gay, with my religious beliefs. Fortunately I found that many Biblical scholars have a hard time with the blanket "being gay is a horrible sin" statements that many fundamentalists get so worked up about. There are many Biblical experts who believe the statements against homosexuality in the Bible are largely misinterpreted by those with their own agenda, who ignore many other similiar condemnations. Not all Christians believe the same thing, and knowing this helped me to come to a higher level of acceptance of myself, and actually pushed me closer to religious practice, instead of away from it. After moving to Houston I did something I had never done before -- started attending church completely voluntarily, on my own, without the influence of parents or other family members telling me I should go. I'm thrilled that there is a Methodist congregation here in Houston that accepts and values me as I am, instead of telling me that I'm somehow broken and must try to change major aspects of who I am or else face some kind of eternal damnation. Many of the people I know in my congregation, who have experienced far more oppression and religious "you're going to burn in hell!" dogma than I ever have, give me great inspiration, because they exhibit the true signs of a Christian in so many ways.

As with the initial post in this thread, I am disgusted when some people, who profess themselves to be Christian, exhibit a holier-than-thou attitude, or make it their mission to condemn those who are different or don't believe exactly what they believe. This is something that, in my opinion, goes against everything I learned when I was a kid in church. However, I have to be careful not to exhibit the same type of hate and condemnation against fundamentalists and conservatives that I have perceived them directing against me. That is something that is often very difficult.

There are a lot of good things that can come from Christianity, and other religions. There are also bad things that religious belief can bring about as well. It saddens me that so many wars, and so much hate and discrimination, has been the result of religious beliefs, yet most religions highly value peace, compassion toward the less fortunate, and love for all people. It's amazing to me how something that is often so good can be so badly abused by people. Yet even with the bad things that some Christians do in the name of Jesus Christ and God, I can't help but believe that the majority of religious people are good, loving people.

[escapee]

Check out this blog. About halfway down the page. Talks about depression being a SIN! There are some scary folks out there who absolutely KNOW that they are right and the rest of us are going to burn in hell.

http://blogs.chron.com/thinkingchristian/2006/07/hell.html