What Makes A Good Builder?

[jscarbor]

Lets hear what you think makes someone a good builder. Assume the builder is a production type builder say 100+ homes built a year.

Yes I am a builder, I can get a set of plans look at them and build, i'm not an engineer, I hire them to engineer a house that is practical to build. I'm a 10 unit per year size builder now about to be a 30 unit per year builder.

Edited November 17, 2005 by jscarbor

[Jeebus]

I'm a 10 unit per year size builder now..

To me, that's what makes a good builder - someone whose workload isn't overburdened. 30 homes a year is close to the "impersonal" line in my opinion.

[jscarbor]

Unfortunately not very much money in building 10 homes a year (unless they are $400K+ and selling of course) as my bank account can attest to.

Personally my goal is somewhere in the 50-75 range with 2 good superintendants working with me.

To me, that's what makes a good builder - someone whose workload isn't overburdened. 30 homes a year is close to the "impersonal" line in my opinion.

[hydepark]

Unfortunately not very much money in building 10 homes a year (unless they are $400K+ and selling of course) as my bank account can attest to.

Personally my goal is somewhere in the 50-75 range with 2 good superintendants working with me.

There are good ethical builders, but these mega- builders come in, buy in bulk, do shoddy work and offer eye candy and flat screen tv's and no paymens for 6 months and the smaller eithical builder has a hard time meeting those prices... because he turns out a quality product he is proud of...these meg a builders can't be proud of what they are building..they don't care and that is a sad state of affairs.

[TJones]

Carbor, I agree with you, because I've been there. 10 homes a year will just get you by ! 3 times the workload will be tough at first, but I'm sure you'll manage, I went from 10 to 19 homes in one year, then stepped to 30 the next, get some good spanish speakers brother, I'm sure you already know that. BTW, could you tell the nice people here how much stuff seems to just "wander off" during a build ? I also think a "good builder" is someone who will stand behind their work. People have to remember that these houses are being built by people, all sorts of different people, work will vary if you aren't on top of it all.

Here is a scenario. This actually happened in one of the homes we built. Someone , and believe me, this it happens often, took an actual "dump", yes, took a bowel movement up in an attic of one of our houses. It was at least in a box. I was pretty upset, because we always had port-o-potties out there. I was not so upset when I saw what the deviant has used for toilet paper. This smartguy decided to use the FIBERGLASS INSULATION ! I kid you not. My construction partner and I laughed so hard, thinking how much that has to hurt , we both almost fell through the ceiling.

[VicMan]

Did you figure out who did it?

And if so, what happened to him?

[jscarbor]

Yeah, I had some idiot take a dump in the corner of an unfinished room. It was at least the winter time so it didn't bak but guess who cleaned it up? Not very fun. And I provide as good of porto can as possible, I pay for extra service frequently.

I've easily had $30K worth of stuf stolen on my current project. I hired a full time "security" guy who has been pretty good help for me but he's cost me another $15K. Add on the fact that some of these thefts have cost me a good amount of time and you can see what's been left on the table as far as profit goes.

This busuness is too hard to be in it for getting by isn't it? I am hiring a manager with a ton of experience to make this transition. As a small builder every call at night is a nightmare because you are worried that something has gone wrong at a home. A big builder doesn't have that problem, they usually just feel its a nuisance. So far my anxiety has been unfounded, of the twenty or so houses I have built I have had maybe 20-30 warranty calls. The worst of any of them was that a shower on the second floor was leaking. After troubleshooting I knew it had to do with the shower pan. we ripped up the tile, thinset, hardi backer and noticed the tile person cut the shower pan right at the lip of the pan and water was seeping thru that spot. How freaking stupid! I specifically said for the tile guy to be very careful yet he didn't listen. What else could I have done? Hire someone different? A couple weeks later another home had the same problem. Thankfully the next 2 were done correctly.

Just recently I woke up to one of those nightmare calls it was a homeowner saying that one of my unfinished houses had water pouring out of it. I speed to the property to find that one of the pipes had dislodged at a joint and water poured out of there. Again, what could the builder do about that? Damage on that puppy ran me $8K. I tore out the sheetrock, took out the insulation and ripped up the gorgeoud hardwoods, let everything dry up as good as possible and am just now finishing the building. Buyer is aware of the problem.

Most of the problems have been water related which is aweful but none has caused any significant mold that I am aware of. Mold! Its a bad word I know but my guess is almost all houston homes have incurred mold during construction especially townhomes because of the common walls which are basically sheetrock. You can't prevent rain during construction. The best you can do is spray the mold down with bleach and scrub up a bit.

Carbor, I agree with you, because I've been there. 10 homes a year will just get you by ! 3 times the workload will be tough at first, but I'm sure you'll manage, I went from 10 to 19 homes in one year, then stepped to 30 the next, get some good spanish speakers brother, I'm sure you already know that. BTW, could you tell the nice people here how much stuff seems to just "wander off" during a build ? I also think a "good builder" is someone who will stand behind their work. People have to remember that these houses are being built by people, all sorts of different people, work will vary if you aren't on top of it all.

Here is a scenario. This actually happened in one of the homes we built. Someone , and believe me, this it happens often, took an actual "dump", yes, took a bowel movement up in an attic of one of our houses. It was at least in a box. I was pretty upset, because we always had port-o-potties out there. I was not so upset when I saw what the deviant has used for toilet paper. This smartguy decided to use the FIBERGLASS INSULATION ! I kid you not. My construction partner and I laughed so hard, thinking how much that has to hurt , we both almost fell through the ceiling.

[ldogg]

For me the quality of a builder is 3 fold...

1. does the finished product look nice? are they quality materials with a fine finish to it? a top notch finish doesn't have to cost top dollar if you know what you're doing... design is very important to me...

2. quality of construction - if the houses are being inspected by the city you know it should meet certain requirements... but when you walk the house during the different stages you need to kick and tug everything and question everything..

3. warranty work/reputation - it is inevitable that problems will arrise.. some minor and some major... how much personal attention does the builder give you? how concerned are they to make you happy? do they react to your problem the same way they would if it were their own home?

no matter how good the subcontractors are or how vigilant the superintendants are, things are going to slip through the cracks... taking care of these things is of the utmost importance... it won't make the builder any more $$ in the short term, but reputation is huge and will make a difference in the long term..

I bought a townhome over 3 years ago from a local builder... they were great... beyond catering to the design changes/finishes we wanted they also took care of warranty issues without hesitation... even after the warranty period expired I called the super and described a problem and asked for references to a contractor and he said not to worry and that they'd take care of it for me... I would recommend them to anyone looking for the type of home they are building right now.. in fact, one of my old neighbors that moved to Dallas and has since returned to Houston just bought another house from them...

oh.. and Carbor... need a superintendant? how much will it pay?? I was my own GC and laborer on remodeling my own home and loved it so much that I'd love to be in the game for real... as for TJ's suggestion of a spanish speaker... it is golden... I'm a native speaker and 1/2 hispanic but look like whitey... you wouldn't believe the number of times I've overheard workers/contractors speaking to each other in spanish about things on the job thinking I didn't understand them... I play along until I know I need to come out with it... the look of shock on their faces is priceless..

oh.. and I also experienced the dump on the jobsite issue at my house... the guy did it in a bucket and left it near the front door... we were working inside and thought we had a dead rat in a wall from the smell... luckily I checked the bucket before opening up the wall... disgusting.. .

[TJones]

Carbor, the worst warranty call I ever got was a lady who had just closed on her house about a week prior. The tranformer down the street had blown and blew sparks out of her GFI in her bathroom, we then tried to fix the switch but it kept blowing and blowing, and smoke was coming out, she got real scared.She thought her house was gonna catch fire. Had to trace it back to the box. I had installed the wire in the house myself, so I knew it was done right, I had a master electrician wire the fuse box though, I just ran all the homeruns, and connectors. So the "master electrician" swears I must have done something wrong, so, we trace it all together back to the box. This goober had forgotten to tighten down the ground cable , and the electricity flowing through it was making the cable move around of courseand the GFI in the bathroom was path of least resistance. He was so embarrased he would not take payment for the job. I told him even though it was a huge mistake, but that he had never done it before on any other of our houses. So, he got paid, he never made that mistake with me again though.

[rps324]

Yeah, I had some idiot take a dump in the corner of an unfinished room. It was at least the winter time so it didn't bak but guess who cleaned it up? Not very fun. And I provide as good of porto can as possible, I pay for extra service frequently.

I had that same little problem with the a house I redid and flipped. I had latrine duty cleaning that up and was much, much unhappy about that.

Since a couple of you are builders, let me ask a question, if you had four lots side by side totalling 22,000 sq ft., how many townhomes give or take do you think could be put on the lot?

[TJones]

how much sq. footage do you want on each floor ?

Edited November 18, 2005 by TJones

[gwilson]

Two of my best friends own a luxury building company and what sets them apart from others is that they are less worried about expanding the profit margin as they are making sure the client gets EXACTLY what they want and making sure that whatever their name goes on is as perfect as possible. In the volume they build, they rely on word of mouth and every single one of their customers would gladly meet with a prospect and give them rave reviews.

Where gross builders go wrong is that they don't build for people, they build for profit. Profit isn't bad, but they are to a point where pissing of 15% of their customers doesn't mean anything because the other 85% either doesn't care or doesn't know. That, and they can afford billboards and commercials where as the people who get screwed, can't.

This isn't exclusive to gross builders of course. There are many low volume companies that simply build for as cheap as possible, sell for as much as possible and then move on. You'd be surprised how many builders have had to start NEW companies and fold the old ones just to keep going.

[gwilson]

I had that same little problem with the a house I redid and flipped. I had latrine duty cleaning that up and was much, much unhappy about that.

Since a couple of you are builders, let me ask a question, if you had four lots side by side totalling 22,000 sq ft., how many townhomes give or take do you think could be put on the lot?

Depends a lot on where you want to build and how much of that is frontage. Gross square feet isn't as accurate a model to determine with as dimensions are. You need to consider easements, drainage, etc.

Consider you will need 15 feet from the street to cover easements and driveway, so take your frontage dimension x 15 and that many square feet is out already. Then take the side dimensions and multiply by 3-5 feet for easement. Do the same again for however many buildings you might take for side yard access (between 3-5 feet). Subtract that from the gross square footage. If you plan on having back yards (however quaint they might end up being) take the back dimension x say another 15 feet, and subtract that.

What is left will be your buildable square footage. It disappears quickly!

[rps324]

I was just curious what the land costs per unit might run. I have a tract I am trying to peddle for someone.

[Guest danax]

Since a couple of you are builders, let me ask a question, if you had four lots side by side totalling 22,000 sq ft., how many townhomes give or take do you think could be put on the lot?

Around Rice Military/Heights they're putting four 3 story patio homes on a typical city (5000 sq. ft.) or so lot.

[jscarbor]

Depends on location really. Right now I have a 5 unit project on 10,000 feet. I easily could have gone 6 but I thought the extra room for guest parking would be nice. Of course noone really wants to pay for it but in the end I bet they are happy I did it. If you are looking to maximize lot yeild and it is inside the loop then I would say 12 units maybe 13 tops.

If you are outside the loop then you have to account for open compensating spaces. That usually takes the lot yeild down a little.

Garage setback lines are actually 17 feet if it is facing a street.

I had that same little problem with the a house I redid and flipped. I had latrine duty cleaning that up and was much, much unhappy about that.

Since a couple of you are builders, let me ask a question, if you had four lots side by side totalling 22,000 sq ft., how many townhomes give or take do you think could be put on the lot?

It really depends on the area. Personally I like to stay in the $30K-$40K range. But that is a hard number to achieve.

I was just curious what the land costs per unit might run. I have a tract I am trying to peddle for someone.

[rps324]

thanks for the insights. I have a listing for a friend that I am trying to figure some marketing strategies for. It's inside the loop, off Patton at the corner of Erin & Billingsley. It would work for entry level product, (there is some over on Sharmin going in right now), I don't think the area would support very high end yet. it's still kind of sketchy, so I have had to get her to reduce it to make the numbers attractive for a developer. This info helps considerably.

[TJones]

Don't forget the 8ft. easement for sidewalk traffic on any side street.

[amadeuz]

I've finally found a forum in which to vent about a builder. Do NOT EVER buy a home from Lovett Homes!! Do not be fooled by their product. Granted they build a nice home, but their customer service absolutely sucks. All Frank Liu cares about is making money...period. We bought a home pre-construction from them in the museum district. After waiting 6+ months, lo and behold my wife and I discovered 4 12-foot tall utility meters about 6 ft from the back of our house. Now the back of our house, as in many patio homes, is facing the street so these meters present a tremendous eyesore. We were never informed that these meters would be placed there nor were we ever given a detailed survey of the development. Perhaps we should've known better and asked for a survey, but the sales lady actually recommended our lot to us. At any rate, I've never been treated so disgracefully in my life. Even during construction of the house, the sales lady was rude, impatient, and never aimed to please us. Now we are trying to terminate and get our earnest money back. After some inquiries we discovered that Lovett has been involved in a lot of litigation and basically treats any customer who is dissatisified like piece of dung. Once you sign that sales contract and they have your money, they pretty much say "screw you, now we have your money." So what makes a good builder? My answer: customer service! Listening to the buyer and at least trying to accomodate your needs. So learn from my mistake and no not give Frank Liu any of your business!!

[hydepark]

I've finally found a forum in which to vent about a builder. Do NOT EVER buy a home from Lovett Homes!! Do not be fooled by their product. Granted they build a nice home, but their customer service absolutely sucks. All Frank Liu cares about is making money...period. We bought a home pre-construction from them in the museum district. After waiting 6+ months, lo and behold my wife and I discovered 4 12-foot tall utility meters about 6 ft from the back of our house. Now the back of our house, as in many patio homes, is facing the street so these meters present a tremendous eyesore. We were never informed that these meters would be placed there nor were we ever given a detailed survey of the development. Perhaps we should've known better and asked for a survey, but the sales lady actually recommended our lot to us. At any rate, I've never been treated so disgracefully in my life. Even during construction of the house, the sales lady was rude, impatient, and never aimed to please us. Now we are trying to terminate and get our earnest money back. After some inquiries we discovered that Lovett has been involved in a lot of litigation and basically treats any customer who is dissatisified like piece of dung. Once you sign that sales contract and they have your money, they pretty much say "screw you, now we have your money." So what makes a good builder? My answer: customer service! Listening to the buyer and at least trying to accomodate your needs. So learn from my mistake and no not give Frank Liu any of your business!!

[hydepark]

Amedeuz,

Sadly, I have found no one cares about this topic, until it falls on their door step.

FYI

There was a great article in the Houston Chronicle on 11/25/05 about the builders getting out of the Better Business Bureau... they do not want you to have a place to check on them AT ALL. The article also explained what the bad builders are doing here in Houston. It is a very well written article by Purva Pattel.

The same topic was also covered on the Defenders on channel 11, the 10 oclock news on Tuesday. The National President of the Homebuyers for Better Building was on the show, as well as the TRCC director who said the TRCC had failed the consumer.

The Novemeber issue of Texas Monthy all so lists the rights... you know longer have.

Unfortunatly, no one seems to read these, listen or want to be informed. They do not understand they could be next. Most are not even familiar with the new laws in Texas.

Our elected officals know exactly what is going on and by turning a blind eye they condone it. Our elected officals also accept the very large donations from the builders.

You can view this information at Hobb.org.

I feal your pain...

[Parrothead]

I think the reason Pulte Homes is consistently at the top of JD Powers' list is because of their aftermarket skills. They take care of their customers, plain and simple. Are their houses spectacular? Well, not really, I mean, they are nice, and well built, but they look like Lennar or any other spec homebuilder in the 150K-200K range. I think if you follow through with a person after they have bought your home, and keep up with any problems they have, i.e. have a representative check on them after 90 days, 180 days, and 365 days to make sure they are fine--that's the kind of service that makes people keep going back. LifeForms in the Woodlands did that for my sister. They were awesome!

[jscarbor]

i'm sure it was only one example and there are many more in addition to the meter rack but in the builders defense, the utility company makes builders put these racks in certain areas. If you want it somewhere else they make it very hard on you.

Maybe a taller fence would help?

I've finally found a forum in which to vent about a builder. Do NOT EVER buy a home from Lovett Homes!! Do not be fooled by their product. Granted they build a nice home, but their customer service absolutely sucks. All Frank Liu cares about is making money...period. We bought a home pre-construction from them in the museum district. After waiting 6+ months, lo and behold my wife and I discovered 4 12-foot tall utility meters about 6 ft from the back of our house. Now the back of our house, as in many patio homes, is facing the street so these meters present a tremendous eyesore. We were never informed that these meters would be placed there nor were we ever given a detailed survey of the development. Perhaps we should've known better and asked for a survey, but the sales lady actually recommended our lot to us. At any rate, I've never been treated so disgracefully in my life. Even during construction of the house, the sales lady was rude, impatient, and never aimed to please us. Now we are trying to terminate and get our earnest money back. After some inquiries we discovered that Lovett has been involved in a lot of litigation and basically treats any customer who is dissatisified like piece of dung. Once you sign that sales contract and they have your money, they pretty much say "screw you, now we have your money." So what makes a good builder? My answer: customer service! Listening to the buyer and at least trying to accomodate your needs. So learn from my mistake and no not give Frank Liu any of your business!!

[gto250us]

that is sort of like asking what is a good lawyer. One that is wearing concrete shoes in Galveston Bay.

[hydepark]

Two of my best friends own a luxury building company and what sets them apart from others is that they are less worried about expanding the profit margin as they are making sure the client gets EXACTLY what they want and making sure that whatever their name goes on is as perfect as possible. In the volume they build, they rely on word of mouth and every single one of their customers would gladly meet with a prospect and give them rave reviews.

Where gross builders go wrong is that they don't build for people, they build for profit. Profit isn't bad, but they are to a point where pissing of 15% of their customers doesn't mean anything because the other 85% either doesn't care or doesn't know. That, and they can afford billboards and commercials where as the people who get screwed, can't.

This isn't exclusive to gross builders of course. There are many low volume companies that simply build for as cheap as possible, sell for as much as possible and then move on. You'd be surprised how many builders have had to start NEW companies and fold the old ones just to keep going.

[hydepark]

One builder in particular has numerous companies and entities......it is Stature Construction

Company, University Development, Tremont Homes, Tremont Custom Homes, Tremont Custom

Construction, Tremont Tower Condomium Ass., Terrace Tower, Northbough Village Neighborhood

Association,Inc, (this one lists as director, Norman Chapa who was convicted of felony charges convicted

awaiting sentencing), and Carlisle Homes. They have about 25 other names they go by, to take advantage

of homebuyers. You can pull all this information up on the Texas Comptrollers Web page. It is the same

people over and over, occasionally even the poor old mother's name appears.

Houston has the poster Child for bad building

One builder in particular has numerous companies and entities......it is Stature Construction

Company, University Development, Tremont Homes, Tremont Custom Homes, Tremont Custom

Construction, Tremont Tower Condomium Ass., Terrace Tower, Northbough Village Neighborhood

Association,Inc, (this one lists as director, Norman Chapa who was convicted of felony charges convicted

awaiting sentencing), and Carlisle Homes. They have about 25 other names they go by, to take advantage

of homebuyers. You can pull all this information up on the Texas Comptrollers Web page. It is the same

people over and over, occasionally even the poor old mother's name appears.

Houston has the poster Child for bad building

One builder in particular has numerous companies and entities......it is Stature Construction

Company, University Development, Tremont Homes, Tremont Custom Homes, Tremont Custom

Construction, Tremont Tower Condomium Ass., Terrace Tower, Northbough Village Neighborhood

Association,Inc, (this one lists as director, Norman Chapa who was convicted of felony charges convicted

awaiting sentencing), and Carlisle Homes. They have about 25 other names they go by, to take advantage

of homebuyers. You can pull all this information up on the Texas Comptrollers Web page. It is the same

people over and over, occasionally even the poor old mother's name appears.

Houston has the poster Child for bad building

P.S.

A good builder is someone who who builds a home he is proud of, one that someday might make the historical register.

[nmainguy]

One builder in particular has numerous companies and entities......it is Stature Construction

Company, University Development, Tremont Homes, Tremont Custom Homes, Tremont Custom

Construction, Tremont Tower Condomium Ass., Terrace Tower, Northbough Village Neighborhood

Association,Inc, (this one lists as director, Norman Chapa who was convicted of felony charges convicted

awaiting sentencing), and Carlisle Homes. They have about 25 other names they go by, to take advantage

of homebuyers. You can pull all this information up on the Texas Comptrollers Web page. It is the same

people over and over, occasionally even the poor old mother's name appears.

Houston has the poster Child for bad building

P.S.

A good builder is someone who who builds a home he is proud of, one that someday might make the historical register.

Hyde? Why do you re-post yourself?

[nmainguy]

I think the reason Pulte Homes is consistently at the top of JD Powers' list is because of their aftermarket skills. They take care of their customers, plain and simple. Are their houses spectacular? Well, not really, I mean, they are nice, and well built, but they look like Lennar or any other spec homebuilder in the 150K-200K range. I think if you follow through with a person after they have bought your home, and keep up with any problems they have, i.e. have a representative check on them after 90 days, 180 days, and 365 days to make sure they are fine--that's the kind of service that makes people keep going back. LifeForms in the Woodlands did that for my sister. They were awesome!

Does anyone know how much corporations pay JD Powers for their endorsements? I've gone to their website in addition to their parent company's web site http://www.mcgraw-hill.com/ NYSE/MHP but I can't figure out what rate they charge for a product endorsement. I've always been curious about Powers and how they have evolved into a company whose endorsements are unquestioned as being un-biased. It would be interesting if anyone had any knowledge about them.

[hydepark]

Does anyone know how much corporations pay JD Powers for their endorsements? I've gone to their website in addition to their parent company's web site http://www.mcgraw-hill.com/ NYSE/MHP but I can't figure out what rate they charge for a product endorsement. I've always been curious about Powers and how they have evolved into a company whose endorsements are unquestioned as being un-biased. It would be interesting if anyone had any knowledge about them.

nmain: look on HOBB.org ...Powers gave top rating to K&B homes after all the fines the courts suits filed against them..there is an article about Powers ratings.

[hydepark]

nmain: look on HOBB.org ...Powers gave top rating to K&B homes after all the fines the courts suits filed against them..there is an article about Powers ratings.

A good builder belongs to the Better Business Bureau. I wish we could compile a list of quality, ethical builders and promote them. Quality homebuilders do not have to make excuses. They also stand behind their word and their work. They care.They are proud of the houses they build... and the owners are proud of the homes they bought.