Porretto Beach Abandonment

[Response]

WARNING!

Do not waste any time reading this thread.

[arche_757]

8 hours ago, Reefmonkey said:

 

 

http://www.moodygardens.com/attractions/palmbeach/

 

https://www.schlitterbahn.com/galveston

Yes I’m aware of those developments.  They’ve been around for years.  I think the assumed “large manmade body of water” was a Crystal Lagoon or similar.

[Reefmonkey]

16 hours ago, arche_757 said:

Yes I’m aware of those developments.  They’ve been around for years.  I think the assumed “large manmade body of water” was a Crystal Lagoon or similar.

 

A Crystal Lagoon is basically just a very large beach entry swimming pool, filtered and chemically treated like any other swimming pool. Which is exactly what Moody Gardens's Palm Beach and Schlitterbahn's Kristal Cove, Kristal Bay, Wave Lagoon, et al are. What is it you guys are thinking is so special or magical about a Crystal Lagoon compared to what is already there? The only thing really difference is the size, with some Crystal Lagoons being large enough to do water sports in. Okay, lets look at the practicality of having one of those. Once you get west of the Moody Gardens complex (around 99th Street), the island narrows significantly. It's pretty obvious there is no room for a Crystal Lagoon gulfward of FM 3005 (among other issues), and the distance between 3005 and Stewart Road is about 1500 feet, and already has a lot of developments between the cow pastures which would limit the contiguous land that could be bought up. Bayward of Stewart Road the island is crenellated with multiple coves and inlets, and much of what appears to be solid ground on a map or satellite imagery is actually wetlands, and the solid land that is there is mostly already occupied by vacation home subdivisions. As soon as Stewart Road ends, you hit Galveston Island State Park, which spans the island from beach to bay. After that, the island gets even more narrow. And you have subdivisions like Jamaica Beach, Indian Beach, Sea Isle, with maybe a parcel or two of land in between them, but none big enough for one of these water sports-capable Crystal Lagoons and the infrastructure and the parking that would be needed for them. And who is going to want to pay to do watersports on some tiny little sterile confined body of water where type and size of craft and speed is going to be heavily restricted, when the freedom of navigation of West Bay is right over their shoulder? So basically, again, we're talking about a big beach entry swimming pool, and why would someone drive out past 12 Mile Road to go to a new one when they could go to Schlitterbahn or Palm Beach practically right after I-45 dumps them on the island?

 

See, this is where having actual knowledge of the island exposes brotastic "vision" as unrealistic pipe dream.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Reefmonkey

[arche_757]

@Reefmonkey I should have stayed out of this discussion altogether, as I really don’t care either way.

 

I should add you seemingly took a defensive approach with my comment(s).  I understand that the Galveston sub-forum has devolved into some ...tense replies here and there.  I’m not here to challenge your opinion, or that of others - everyone is welcome to express what they think.

[Reefmonkey]

2 hours ago, arche_757 said:

@Reefmonkey I should have stayed out of this discussion altogether, as I really don’t care either way.

 

I should add you seemingly took a defensive approach with my comment(s).  I understand that the Galveston sub-forum has devolved into some ...tense replies here and there.  I’m not here to challenge your opinion, or that of others - everyone is welcome to express what they think.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your intent, brotastic dudebros tend to stretch my patience. But I was also hoping to provide an explanation once and for all of why the lack of a Crystal Lagoon in Galveston isn’t due to Galveston city fathers’ lack of “vision”, but due to real geographical limitations,  for anyone who’s really interested. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Reefmonkey

[arche_757]

I understand your frustration.  Galveston is a frustrating place!

 

I think (having dealt with the permitting process for commercial properties there many times) that Galveston has the right mind set, if perhaps a somewhat flawed set of development guidelines.  The Land Development Regulations, more specifically the Height and Density Development Zone mandates that projects provide public interaction, and engage the street frontage (among other things). That said, these same standards have, to an extent, limited what can be built within the same zones where the City mandated density.  These standards have no doubt chased away some good developers who don’t have to deal with such oversight in other jurisdictions.  For example: a mid-rise project requires an investment of affordable housing (on the project site).  Presumably these units could be built elsewhere on the island, but this has scared away development of that I am sure.  This applies to ANY project, any typology - not just a multi-family construct.  While admirable, this sort of regulation isn’t conducive to further promoting the isle as a viable investment area.  And - while affordability is extremely important, Galveston needs meaningful investment and not just from locals.

 

As is too often the case - I feel Galveston cannot get out of its own way.

[Luminare]

On 4/17/2019 at 8:46 PM, arche_757 said:

I understand your frustration.  Galveston is a frustrating place!

 

I think (having dealt with the permitting process for commercial properties there many times) that Galveston has the right mind set, if perhaps a somewhat flawed set of development guidelines.  The Land Development Regulations, more specifically the Height and Density Development Zone mandates that projects provide public interaction, and engage the street frontage (among other things). That said, these same standards have, to an extent, limited what can be built within the same zones where the City mandated density.  These standards have no doubt chased away some good developers who don’t have to deal with such oversight in other jurisdictions.  For example: a mid-rise project requires an investment of affordable housing (on the project site).  Presumably these units could be built elsewhere on the island, but this has scared away development of that I am sure.  This applies to ANY project, any typology - not just a multi-family construct.  While admirable, this sort of regulation isn’t conducive to further promoting the isle as a viable investment area.  And - while affordability is extremely important, Galveston needs meaningful investment and not just from locals.

 

As is too often the case - I feel Galveston cannot get out of its own way.

 

As the old saying goes, "Beggars can't be choosers ." While I don't like how extreme New York City and San Francisco are with all of their requirements, regulations, and obligations, they can get away with it because they know that at the end of the day a developer still wants to build there, and people want to either run a business or live there simply do to proximity. Those are two of the most high profile cities in the country and so no matter how tightly the city puts the squeeze on its developers they know they hold the power at the negotiation table. Its opposite for Galveston. Maybe someday when it becomes a desirable place for business and living then these requirements, regulations, and obligations will be warranted, but for now it only gives businesses an excuse to avoid the city like the plague. More progressive mindset policies only work in the most extremely competitive of cities because its already known people want to be there. Galveston really needs to instead go back to a more classical liberal / libertarian approach. Slash as much fat and waste as possible and make it as easy as possible to keep the door open. Keep design guidelines and make them as clear and focused as possible, but minimize the undo bureaucratic burden.  

[arche_757]

You’re correct.  That said, I believe Galveston’s intention in implementing the LDR was to define standards which would remove the potential for buildings like the San Luis or maybe even the convention center.  They were trying to avoid having developers block entire blocks of low-rise residential, which is technically still possible - albeit much more complicated these days.

 

Folks in Galveston *want* expect to have beachfront views from their scabbed on garage rooftop porches, even if the “structures” are 2-3 blocks north of the commercially zoned Seawall frontage.  That and they’d reaaaly like to avoid any high rise development along most of the Seawall.

 

There are too many Galvestonians that think they deserve some sort of grandfathered in exclusions for their immediate backyard.  Which, as a homeowner myself I don’t necessarily blame them, but you have to weigh the risks when buying near (1-3 blocks) of a commercial zone.  If Johnny Developer comes along and smacks down a 5-floor building on a piece of land which is zoned for such development - what should you expect?

Edited May 7, 2019 by arche_757

[sir_racha]

I lived in Galveston in the 80s and 90s and I lived there more recently with my wife from 2017-2021. We were often worried that developers were trying create another Destin. Destin has no birds, not even gulls. It’s so plastic and stuffed with traffic, who wants another Destin? We love Galveston as it is. We’ve also been worried about the Ike Dike they want to build. Obviously, Mayes Middleton just wants to protect his petro-chemical interests in the name of destroying the environment and beauty of the east end lagoon.