More Congestion On Interstate-10

[livincinco]

I like where you're going with planning being geared towards those who can't afford a car, but I don't think we should start out that way if it's not as beneficial as other routes would be overall for the city. That would be like "prioritizing" a Scott Street line over a Westheimer line.

 

It all depends on how you categorize "beneficial".  I would categorize it as a metric of the number of individuals moved relative to the cost of the project.  For example, I think that there's a pretty strong argument for the success of the Bellaire "Quickline" bus which has 8,200 average daily boardings which is about double what the North rail line currently does at a fraction of the costs.

 

My question about Westheimer was - if the question is commuter rail, how do you run a line down Westheimer and out to Katy and make it effective for transit time.  LRT in Houston runs at 15 mph.  Let's assume that you can run a line down Westheimer at 20 mph.  That would make a trip from Katy to the Galleria one hour.  I don't see that as attractive to people.

[Slick Vik]

If it's about cost you would realize the cost of building rail now isd cheaper than later.

[livincinco]

If it's about cost you would realize the cost of building rail now isd cheaper than later.

 

Given that there are finite resources, the cost of building rail is underfunding bus and BRT.

 

[por favor gracias]

It all depends on how you categorize "beneficial".  I would categorize it as a metric of the number of individuals moved relative to the cost of the project.  For example, I think that there's a pretty strong argument for the success of the Bellaire "Quickline" bus which has 8,200 average daily boardings which is about double what the North rail line currently does at a fraction of the costs.

 

My question about Westheimer was - if the question is commuter rail, how do you run a line down Westheimer and out to Katy and make it effective for transit time.  LRT in Houston runs at 15 mph.  Let's assume that you can run a line down Westheimer at 20 mph.  That would make a trip from Katy to the Galleria one hour.  I don't see that as attractive to people.

 

I would say "beneficial" means what would get the most ridership with overall cost in mind, but not completely "relative to" monetary cost. I wouldn't mind paying a little, and perhaps a lot more for better service. That said, rail consistently gets better ridership numbers than buses. You're "comparing" a recently completed rail corridor with a BRT line that opened five years ago in a much denser area.

 

In response to commuter rail down Westheimer all the way out to Katy, we would have to build something like that with fewer stops (kind of like the 9 mile/8 stop Bellaire Quickline...but even fewer per mile since we're going over twice the distance). If we did that, there's no reason for it to average 20 MPH if the stops were, say, around Cinco Ranch, West Oaks, Royal Oaks, Westchase and the Hillcroft/Dunvale area (or perhaps just Cinco Ranch, West Oaks and Westchase). The first scenario could get people from Katy to the Galleria in a half an hour with 90 second load/unload times, and the second one could do it in about 20 or 25 minutes tops.

 

I don't see people using the "Quickline" to get from Bellaire and Ranchester to the TMC (9 miles) in 38 minutes as particularly "attractive" either, but people still use it as it's the best option they currently have.

[por favor gracias]

Given that there are finite resources, the cost of building rail is underfunding bus and BRT.

 

 

You could just as easily flip the script and say that bus and BRT funding is taking away from rail/train funding. There are many ways we can fund one or the other, or both...and there are also many ways we can provide for that funding.

[livincinco]

You could just as easily flip the script and say that bus and BRT funding is taking away from rail/train funding. There are many ways we can fund one or the other, or both...and there are also many ways we can provide for that funding.

 

Given that I've already stated that I don't think that LRT is a cost effective solution for Houston, I'm not overly concerned about whether rail funding is taking away from BRT.  I would be very happy to hear your plan on how to obtain the sufficient funding for bus, BRT, and LRT.

 

I would say "beneficial" means what would get the most ridership with overall cost in mind, but not completely "relative to" monetary cost. I wouldn't mind paying a little, and perhaps a lot more for better service. That said, rail consistently gets better ridership numbers than buses. You're "comparing" a recently completed rail corridor with a BRT line that opened five years ago in a much denser area.

 

In response to commuter rail down Westheimer all the way out to Katy, we would have to build something like that with fewer stops (kind of like the 9 mile/8 stop Bellaire Quickline...but even fewer per mile since we're going over twice the distance). If we did that, there's no reason for it to average 20 MPH if the stops were, say, around Cinco Ranch, West Oaks, Royal Oaks, Westchase and the Hillcroft/Dunvale area (or perhaps just Cinco Ranch, West Oaks and Westchase). The first scenario could get people from Katy to the Galleria in a half an hour with 90 second load/unload times, and the second one could do it in about 20 or 25 minutes tops.

 

I don't see people using the "Quickline" to get from Bellaire and Ranchester to the TMC (9 miles) in 38 minutes as particularly "attractive" either, but people still use it as it's the best option they currently have.

 

I think that you need to check your math.  It's almost exactly 20 miles from the intersection of Westheimer and Grand Parkway to the Galleria if you travel Westheimer.  In order to make that trip in 20-25 min, you'd have to average about 60 mph.  That seems...aggressive.

[por favor gracias]

Given that I've already stated that I don't think that LRT is a cost effective solution for Houston, I'm not overly concerned about whether rail funding is taking away from BRT.  I would be very happy to hear your plan on how to obtain the sufficient funding for bus, BRT, and LRT.

 

 

I think that you need to check your math.  It's almost exactly 20 miles from the intersection of Westheimer and Grand Parkway to the Galleria if you travel Westheimer.  In order to make that trip in 20-25 min, you'd have to average about 60 mph.  That seems...aggressive.

We all have different ideas, but I think we can all agree there are many areas where we can cut costs. Knowing how inefficiently we plan, build, and "fix" a lot of our roads and communities, and knowing that we've spent billions of dollars for highway projects and new stadiums, I'm inclined to think we can set aside a little money for a real transportation system...especially one that will save us a ton of money in the long run. There are also many ways we can generate more money...for example how we are currently offering incentives downtown. That's going to pay off big time (and on a side note, I really hope we can get Mayor Parker to help try a similar strategy and lure Tesla to build their mega-factory here).

 

I would agree that LRT isn't what we should be focusing on, at least right now. Put all the rail/mass transit money into higher speed, longer distance corridors for now. Get this city connected. As much as I prefer light rail to buses...unless/until we get a real mass transit network, I think we should prioritize light rail at a later time. We already have a lot of buses, and the way we're building our light rail...we're putting it down corridors where buses used to run anyways, and it's also interfering substantially with street and pedestrian traffic. If anything, we should focus our light rail funds on routes where the buses don't currently run and build them with less interference with traffic.

 

If the train leaves Cinco Ranch (doesn't have to be at the Grand Pkwy, but I'll go with that) and goes 60 or 80 MPH with only two 90-second stops near West Oaks and Westchase before reaching the Galleria, it could absolutely get there in 20 - 25 minutes. It depends on what kind of train we build and how we build it. It's 18.5 miles from the Grand Pkwy and Westheimer Pkwy to the Galleria in a straight line. You may consider 60 - 80 MPH to be "aggressive" (and I certainly don't "disagree" with that), but there are trains in Europe that go less than 35 miles and reach speeds of over 150 MPH. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that we can build one to reach 60 or 80 MPH with stops every 5 to 8 miles. It only takes an 8-car passenger train (and I think we can do with fewer cars than that with this particular line) going 80 MPH about a mile to completely stop. A 60 MPH top-speed train would probably get people from Katy to the Galleria in about 25 minutes, and 80 MPH top-speed train would probably do it in about 20 minutes. Either way, it would be faster than traveling by car, bus or light rail.

[Slick Vik]

We all have different ideas, but I think we can all agree there are many areas where we can cut costs. Knowing how inefficiently we plan, build, and "fix" a lot of our roads and communities, and knowing that we've spent billions of dollars for highway projects and new stadiums, I'm inclined to think we can set aside a little money for a real transportation system...especially one that will save us a ton of money in the long run. There are also many ways we can generate more money...for example how we are currently offering incentives downtown. That's going to pay off big time (and on a side note, I really hope we can get Mayor Parker to help try a similar strategy and lure Tesla to build their mega-factory here).

I would agree that LRT isn't what we should be focusing on, at least right now. Put all the rail/mass transit money into higher speed, longer distance corridors for now. Get this city connected. As much as I prefer light rail to buses...unless/until we get a real mass transit network, I think we should prioritize light rail at a later time. We already have a lot of buses, and the way we're building our light rail...we're putting it down corridors where buses used to run anyways, and it's also interfering substantially with street and pedestrian traffic. If anything, we should focus our light rail funds on routes where the buses don't currently run and build them with less interference with traffic.

If the train leaves Cinco Ranch (doesn't have to be at the Grand Pkwy, but I'll go with that) and goes 60 or 80 MPH with only two 90-second stops near West Oaks and Westchase before reaching the Galleria, it could absolutely get there in 20 - 25 minutes. It depends on what kind of train we build and how we build it. It's 18.5 miles from the Grand Pkwy and Westheimer Pkwy to the Galleria in a straight line. You may consider 60 - 80 MPH to be "aggressive" (and I certainly don't "disagree" with that), but there are trains in Europe that go less than 35 miles and reach speeds of over 150 MPH. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that we can build one to reach 60 or 80 MPH with stops every 5 to 8 miles. It only takes an 8-car passenger train (and I think we can do with fewer cars than that with this particular line) going 80 MPH about a mile to completely stop. A 60 MPH top-speed train would probably get people from Katy to the Galleria in about 25 minutes, and 80 MPH top-speed train would probably do it in about 20 minutes. Either way, it would be faster than traveling by car, bus or light rail.

The problem with metro's system right now is that it focuses too much on coverage and not the corridors where ridership is highest.

The one thing about light rail is the buses used on that route can be used for other routes. Also developers love it. It's good in inner city dense corridors but outside I agree faster trains are best.

[por favor gracias]

The problem with metro's system right now is that it focuses too much on coverage and not the corridors where ridership is highest.

The one thing about light rail is the buses used on that route can be used for other routes. Also developers love it. It's good in inner city dense corridors but outside I agree faster trains are best.

 

I agree 100%...and while I do prefer light rail to buses overall, there is a need for both.

[Slick Vik]

Given that there are finite resources, the cost of building rail is underfunding bus and BRT.

 

 

You're avoiding my statement, it's fundamentally true that the row acquisition, labor, and parts will cost more later than they do today. Your strategy of pushing investment off will cost MORE later on, thus being totally inefficient and frankly senseless.