Pearland Explores Park & Ride Project Without METRO

[Slick Vik]

The Pearland City Council has decided it's a good idea to investigate a partnership with the Gulf Coast Center to provide park-and-ride service.

 

The council held a workshop Oct. 14 at which it heard from City Manager Bill Eisen and Goodman Corp. president Barry Goodman about the feasibility and path forward to bring a park-and-ride facility to Pearland.

 

Goodman proposes a transit study and operational consultancy services over the course of a year at a total cost of $115,000.

 

 

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/pearland/news/article/Pearland-explores-park-and-ride-project-without-4917438.php

[august948]

Looks like a step in the right direction for Pearland.  if I read the article right, sounds like they might be able to divert some of METRO's federal funding away from METRO and to this project.  If they're successful with that, I wonder if other municipalites around Houston will try it and possibly pull out of METRO to do their own P&R.

[Slick Vik]

Looks like a step in the right direction for Pearland. if I read the article right, sounds like they might be able to divert some of METRO's federal funding away from METRO and to this project. If they're successful with that, I wonder if other municipalites around Houston will try it and possibly pull out of METRO to do their own P&R.

That seems bizarre especially given that pearland doesn't pay into METRO.

[mfastx]

Looks like a step in the right direction for Pearland.  if I read the article right, sounds like they might be able to divert some of METRO's federal funding away from METRO and to this project.  If they're successful with that, I wonder if other municipalites around Houston will try it and possibly pull out of METRO to do their own P&R.

 

That would suck for METRO, considering there's over a billion dollars in sunk cost in the HOV lanes out to the other municipalities. 

[august948]

That would suck for METRO, considering there's over a billion dollars in sunk cost in the HOV lanes out to the other municipalities. 

 

Exactly.  METRO needs to get ahead of this and figure out how to serve outlying communities otherwise it will get boxed in.  The 93% of area residents who live outside the loop are going to be looking for METRO dollars to serve them, not the inner loop.  If they don't feel they're getting their money's worth they'll agitate against METRO and try to get control of the dollars back (as we have already seen).

 

[Slick Vik]

Exactly.  METRO needs to get ahead of this and figure out how to serve outlying communities otherwise it will get boxed in.  The 93% of area residents who live outside the loop are going to be looking for METRO dollars to serve them, not the inner loop.  If they don't feel they're getting their money's worth they'll agitate against METRO and try to get control of the dollars back (as we have already seen).

 

 

Fort Bend Commuter Rail is the only realistic project on the table. There were talks of putting rail down 10 west during expansion but it was eliminated at the very last moment.

[august948]

Fort Bend Commuter Rail is the only realistic project on the table. There were talks of putting rail down 10 west during expansion but it was eliminated at the very last moment.

 

At the moment, perhaps, but what might happen is that outlying communities might leave METRO and set up they're own systems.  Most likely this would be P&R like Pearland is looking to do as it's easier and cheaper.  If they find out they can get a portion of METRO's federal funding that will give it even more impetus.

 

[livincinco]

This kind of looks kind of like the typical ability of government to take something that should make sense and move directly to a bureaucratic cluster... Pearland wants to work with METRO. METRO wants to work with Pearland, but needs Pearland to pay the 1 cent sales tax. Pearland can't charge the 1 cent sales tax because of state law, therefore Pearland has to setup its own P&R.

[Slick Vik]

At the moment, perhaps, but what might happen is that outlying communities might leave METRO and set up they're own systems. Most likely this would be P&R like Pearland is looking to do as it's easier and cheaper. If they find out they can get a portion of METRO's federal funding that will give it even more impetus.

It's not easier and not cheaper. Good luck to pearland finding the money. It's unfortunate for the medical center and downtown workers that live there though.

[mfastx]

Exactly.  METRO needs to get ahead of this and figure out how to serve outlying communities otherwise it will get boxed in.  The 93% of area residents who live outside the loop are going to be looking for METRO dollars to serve them, not the inner loop.  If they don't feel they're getting their money's worth they'll agitate against METRO and try to get control of the dollars back (as we have already seen).

 

 

It's really tough for METRO to allocate their investments for this reason, everyone wants the big projects to be in their area, but thus far there are more potential transit riders (and better return on investment) on projects closer in.  Transit ridership really thins out once you get outside in the suburbs, since there's no reason to use transit out there, unless you work downtown, which most people don't. 

[august948]

It's not easier and not cheaper. Good luck to pearland finding the money. It's unfortunate for the medical center and downtown workers that live there though.

It's unfortunate that they will have another option to go downtown and the TMC?

[livincinco]

It's not easier and not cheaper. Good luck to pearland finding the money.

Not sure if it's easier, but it is potentially cheaper. It sounds like their plan is to do this by utilizing federal funds instead of sales tax revenue, so it's potentially cheaper for city residents. Also, the City of Pearland seems to have a better history of managing their money than METRO does, so I wouldn't be surprised if they can execute this more cost efficiently as well.

METRO clearly loses in this deal, but I'm not sure Pearland does.

[Slick Vik]

It's unfortunate that they will have another option to go downtown and the TMC?

Unfortunate they won't have the option.

[Slick Vik]

Not sure if it's easier, but it is potentially cheaper. It sounds like their plan is to do this by utilizing federal funds instead of sales tax revenue, so it's potentially cheaper for city residents. Also, the City of Pearland seems to have a better history of managing their money than METRO does, so I wouldn't be surprised if they can execute this more cost efficiently as well.

METRO clearly loses in this deal, but I'm not sure Pearland does.

Good luck getting federal funds the competition is fierce. METRO only loses if pearland gets the funds. Otherwise it wins.

[Slick Vik]

It's really tough for METRO to allocate their investments for this reason, everyone wants the big projects to be in their area, but thus far there are more potential transit riders (and better return on investment) on projects closer in. Transit ridership really thins out once you get outside in the suburbs, since there's no reason to use transit out there, unless you work downtown, which most people don't.

A billion dollars on HOV lanes thirty years ago could've been better spent in the manner you state.

[livincinco]

Good luck getting federal funds the competition is fierce. METRO only loses if pearland gets the funds. Otherwise it wins.

METRO is losing tax revenue which is its primary source of operational funding by not finding a way to extend the 1 cent sales tax to Pearland. This is especially true if Pearland is correct and this route is able to turn a profit with the federal incentives.

The funding that they're looking for is relatively small and should be a lot easier to obtain than a major project.

[Slick Vik]

METRO is losing tax revenue which is its primary source of operational funding by not finding a way to extend the 1 cent sales tax to Pearland. This is especially true if Pearland is correct and this route is able to turn a profit with the federal incentives.

The funding that they're looking for is relatively small and should be a lot easier to obtain than a major project.

They're not losing tax revenue because they never had it in the first place. Unless they went forward with plans knowing pearland would not find a way to pay into the system.

Again, the funding is not that easy to get. For example look at the allocation of the recent TIGER grants. Compare to the number of applications against grants given out. Dallas didn't get a single one for example.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Slick Vik

[kdog08]

I know it will be unpopular but we will need a regional plan that would require bonds. It could be something as simple as increasing park&ride service in the suburbs into uptown, greenway plaza, DT, and Med Center. It would be great if we can do that along with the University Line plus adding some quickline service (why hasn't this happened on Westheimer?) and improving bus service.

 

If we could connect our suburbs with our densest, most walkable, and transit accessible employment/activity centers, then that would help mobility. 

Edited November 5, 2013 by kdog08

[nativehoustonion]

Since I live off Kirby and Westheimer I never have to go the burbs.  If you live in The Woodlands, Katy, Sugarland, Pearland, Cinco Ranch and Conroe.  Would you ride a heavy rail line to Houston?  I think that may be the question to ask.  The Houston-The Woodlands-Sugarland MSA needs a transportation plan.     

[august948]

I know it will be unpopular but we will need a regional plan that would require bonds. It could be something as simple as increasing park&ride service in the suburbs into uptown, greenway plaza, DT, and Med Center. It would be great if we can do that along with the University Line plus adding some quickline service (why hasn't this happened on Westheimer?) and improving bus service.

 

If we could connect our suburbs with our densest, most walkable, and transit accessible employment/activity centers, then that would help mobility. 

 

It's not just a suburb to Houston and back system that's needed, but one that also connects suburbs to suburbs.  Much of the employment is spread out around town and continues to expand outside the loop.  There is a tendency, though, for it to be closer to the freeways.  We can capitalize on that.  What we need is P&R service that runs along all the highways and tollroads.  That way you could go from the Woodlands to the Energy Corridor, etc. without having to go downtown.

 

[Slick Vik]

I know it will be unpopular but we will need a regional plan that would require bonds. It could be something as simple as increasing park&ride service in the suburbs into uptown, greenway plaza, DT, and Med Center. It would be great if we can do that along with the University Line plus adding some quickline service (why hasn't this happened on Westheimer?) and improving bus service.

If we could connect our suburbs with our densest, most walkable, and transit accessible employment/activity centers, then that would help mobility.

University plus uptown line plus a line down Washington with extensions to Iah and hobby with commuter rail to burbs and improvement of bus service sounds good

Since I live off Kirby and Westheimer I never have to go the burbs. If you live in The Woodlands, Katy, Sugarland, Pearland, Cinco Ranch and Conroe. Would you ride a heavy rail line to Houston? I think that may be the question to ask. The Houston-The Woodlands-Sugarland MSA needs a transportation plan.

I know what you mean I went to Chinatown last week it felt like an excursion. No point in going past Kirby and hillcroft at the absolute most.

[Slick Vik]

It's not just a suburb to Houston and back system that's needed, but one that also connects suburbs to suburbs. Much of the employment is spread out around town and continues to expand outside the loop. There is a tendency, though, for it to be closer to the freeways. We can capitalize on that. What we need is P&R service that runs along all the highways and tollroads. That way you could go from the Woodlands to the Energy Corridor, etc. without having to go downtown.

I don't see this happening, ever.

[JamesL]

METRO clearly loses in this deal, but I'm not sure Pearland does.

 

METRO loses what? The opportunity to subsidize the commutes of people outside the service area to the tune of $9 per ride?

[livincinco]

METRO loses what? The opportunity to subsidize the commutes of people outside the service area to the tune of $9 per ride?

Pearland has indicated that they expect to turn a profit when federal subsidies are included. We obviously won't know the actual finances for a couple of years, but if your point is that METRO would potentially lose that much in the same scenario, you might be right. They haven't been effective at managing money at all.

[Slick Vik]

Pearland has indicated that they expect to turn a profit when federal subsidies are included. We obviously won't know the actual finances for a couple of years, but if your point is that METRO would potentially lose that much in the same scenario, you might be right. They haven't been effective at managing money at all.

Good luck getting those funds

[kdog08]

It's not just a suburb to Houston and back system that's needed, but one that also connects suburbs to suburbs.  Much of the employment is spread out around town and continues to expand outside the loop.  There is a tendency, though, for it to be closer to the freeways.  We can capitalize on that.  What we need is P&R service that runs along all the highways and tollroads.  That way you could go from the Woodlands to the Energy Corridor, etc. without having to go downtown.

 

 

Here's the thing, most of the employment in the suburbs aren't conductive to transit in 2013 and the present future. They simply aren't as dense, don't have as good of a street grid, lack existing mass transit and sidewalks are not continuous as our inner core employment centers. Next our freeway system is hub and spoke and has HOV/HOT lanes designed to deliver commuters into the city. We need to capitalize were we have already made the investment, the low hanging fruit of our inner core. When you add up DT, Med Center, Greenway Plaza, Uptown, UofH, Rice, and HCC/UHD that's quite a bit of jobs and students. 

 

I think expanding P&R to the outer employment centers and beginning to lay the ground is a good idea but the inner core should be the focus. It's where the job density is. 

[livincinco]

Here's the thing, most of the employment in the suburbs aren't conductive to transit in 2013 and the present future. They simply aren't as dense, don't have as good of a street grid, lack existing mass transit and sidewalks are not continuous as our inner core employment centers. Next our freeway system is hub and spoke and has HOV/HOT lanes designed to deliver commuters into the city. We need to capitalize were we have already made the investment, the low hanging fruit of our inner core. When you add up DT, Med Center, Greenway Plaza, Uptown, UofH, Rice, and HCC/UHD that's quite a bit of jobs and students.

I think expanding P&R to the outer employment centers and beginning to lay the ground is a good idea but the inner core should be the focus. It's where the job density is.

Your statement really isn't relevant to the discussion at hand. Pearland is looking to establish P&R and is requesting federal funds to institute that program outside of METRO. They have every right to request those funds and they have no interest in supporting the objectives that you described above. Whether they will actually get those funds is an open question, but there's no question that they have the right to request them regardless of the perceived need inside the loop.

[kdog08]

Your statement really isn't relevant to the discussion at hand. Pearland is looking to establish P&R and is requesting federal funds to institute that program outside of METRO. They have every right to request those funds and they have no interest in supporting the objectives that you described above. Whether they will actually get those funds is an open question, but there's no question that they have the right to request them regardless of the perceived need inside the loop.

 

You're right it was off topic. However, don't misconstrue that statement as saying the outer loop doesn't need deserve or need funding. 

[livincinco]

You're right it was off topic. However, don't misconse that statement as saying the outer loop doesn't need deserve or need funding.

Understood. My point is to differentiate between the areas that METRO services and the ones it doesn't. METRO needs to improve transportation for everyone that is served by the system, but communities that are outside their service area, such as Pearland, are going to need to develop solutions that best serve their communities.

[august948]

Understood. My point is to differentiate between the areas that METRO services and the ones it doesn't. METRO needs to improve transportation for everyone that is served by the system, but communities that are outside their service area, such as Pearland, are going to need to develop solutions that best serve their communities.

 

And there's the rub.  The outlying communities that aren't being serviced will want service at some point.  If they're hamstrung by the state sales tax limitiations they may not even have the option of joining METRO.  When that happens they'll find their own way and we'll end up with a fragmented system instead of a unified one.  Furthermore, METRO runs the risk of outlying communities that are part of METRO going their own way if they see that as a better alternative to what METRO provides.