I-45 North Freeway

[nmainguy]

quote=Kirzania,Wednesday, August 3rd, 2005 @ 4:19pm]

Brilliant, Holmes! Given the "money doesn't matter" option, why the heck not? Except I would propose main lanes of traffic in the tunnels with rail on top. A commuter rail with service from airport to downtown, maybe only one or two stops in between. Maybe run one or two lane Express/Toll lanes alongside the rail? Actually, not express lanes, but minimal frontage roads for "Exit-to-exit" traffic, so the locals can still have a "highway" of sorts - perhaps that doesn't completely run into downtown.. Could open the way for more residential and mixed projects.

Or, just to be daring... Why not trees run trees along the rail tracks? Everyone loves trees! Go with the Grand Parkway's scheme of a "ride in the country."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trees would be great...so would a LRT the full 14 miles-create a linear village! Man, am I crazy or what? But my dream would be NO cars , trucks or buses. Electric LRT with frequent stops. See? I told you I was crazy.

[gnu]

lets just put the feeder roads in a tunnel. out of sight, out of mind.

[gnu]

The Grand Parkway will use little to no feeders.

[HeightsGuy]

KJB, the stuff you're showing me is cloverleaf design for freeway-to-freeway interchanges. I'm talking freeway to road cloverleafs. Thanks for the link, but when I said cloverleaf done right I didn't mean the old style where exiting and entering cars used the same real estate. I was thinking the newer style cloverleaf's that have two exits and one entrance ramp:

Partially Unrolled Cloverleaf interchange

[HeightsGuy]

Sorry, sent the wrong link. The last one is to one similar, but one still needing to employ stop lights for left-hand turns. This in the one I meant:

Partially Unrolled Cloverleaf

[CDeb]

Sorry, sent the wrong link. The last one is to one similar, but one still needing to employ stop lights for left-hand turns. This in the one I meant:

Partially Unrolled Cloverleaf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neat concept. Certainly safer than a traditional cloverleaf.

I'd hate to be buying all that ROW.

[kjb434]

Louisiana has one of these at I-12, I-59, and I-10 just northeast of Slidell.

There is also one similar in Shreveport at I-20 and the Inner Loop Expressway.

And for the no money option:

Keep the feeder roads as a large boulevard with a median with rail and have the freeway below the rail in a tunnel. Occasionally exit ramps will come up and meet the feeder road. It would be like the Central Expressway in Dallas had a roof on it. Then the space above could be used for park space, development, and rail.

[GovernorAggie]

While feeders are also not one of me faves, the thought that they escalate sprawl may be faulty at best. Case in point, what city has a bigger reputation than Houston for it's sprawl? Atlanta. Atlanta has feeders, but they are nowhere near the extent of Houston--yet it hasn't stopped anything. I do think that the feeders serve the purpose of hold a lot of traffic that would have otherwise dumped onto city streets, because in ATL, if you drive on some of the surface streets as an alternate route paralleling a freeway, you might actually move a great deal slower than in the congested freeway. Throw in that Atlanta's road network is not as good as Houston's (IMO) and your options dwindle even further.

[kirbyaustex]

Feeders don't create sprawl. The highways that they're nice to create sprawl.

[kirbyaustex]

Next....not NICE.

[UrbaNerd]

How about some of those freeways in Asia, such as Hong Kong, Seoul, etc? if they need more space, they don't go down- they go up; waaay up. I've seen some pictures of their freeways that are double, or triple the height of ours. Interesting stuff.

[The Great Hizzy!]

IMO, decked freeways are as big an eyesore as billboards and large marquees. Decking them may be cheaper but it doesn't seem to make the landscape more attractive. Besides, if we're concerned with how people view our city when they're driving in, I'd imagine having their views compromised by a persistent overhand would be worse than seeing the gaudy Gallery Furniture store.

[HoustonianInColorado]

I won't argue against feeder roads as effective traffic movers. The only point I am making is that feeder roads are the #1 reason we have ugly freeways in Houston, far far ahead of #2 billboards. And any effort to make I45 north a prettier freeway will only be token as long as it's a 20 mile long strip center.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find the feeder roads not bad at all. It is one frustrating thing to me here in the Denver area. You cannot easily get off the freeway to any business. I like the Texas design, and I particularly love the U-Turn lanes under the overpasses.

I-35 in southern Oklahoma City has feeder road equivalents, but they are considered separate streets. the stupid thing is they are two-way, and traffic entering and exiting the freeway meets oncoming traffic. This has caused many fatal accidents.

Here in Denver, I don't think there are any feeders at all. Even the rebuild of I-25 (TREX) which is adding a light rail line is not adding feeders. Yeah, they do ruin a parkway feel, but they are so good at moving traffic.

[Guest danax]

I won't argue against feeder roads as effective traffic movers. The only point I am making is that feeder roads are the #1 reason we have ugly freeways in Houston, far far ahead of #2 billboards. And any effort to make I45 north a prettier freeway will only be token as long as it's a 20 mile long strip center.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. If we can't have every freeway look like the SW, then create a special aesthetic zone along all feeders with strict city design and landscape ordinances. In other words, make it like a commercial scenic route; have it both ways, business and beauty. Fix it up like we're doing to Downtown. Some of the newer stores along the 45N don't look too bad; Fry's, Best Buy, etc. It's the disorganized flea market look; piles of bean bags, trashy motels, used car lots, tractor sales etc. that makes our city look dumpy. Maybe they can address the flooding while they're at it.

[NYC Texan3]

Amen to the points on feeders by Heightsguy and ReScare. I get steamed just thinking about them. Point me to one other city in the country that has made such a mess of their urban landscape? The lack of zoning, combined with the feeder roads, has just made a total mess.

I am very depressed about the feeder the plan to build between Studemont and Taylor...

Don't forget where to put the blame: our local politicians and TxDot. Until an advocacy group starts to drag this into the daylight, there is no way to stop it.

[RedScare]

NYC, we clearly are neighbors, based on these last couple of posts.

The Taylor Street feeder bothers me, too. It is absolutley unnecessary. In fact, it could be an example of how a non-feeder highway can still serve business without being unsightly. Most cities have development near their freeways without the unending stretch of commercial/retail ugliness that Texans endure. In Little Rock, AR, for example, Shackleford Rd. runs parallel to I-430 on the west side of town. 430 is a beautiful tree lined parway with long exit ramps. Shackleford is a thriving retail street that is oriented to the community instead of the freeway. Most of the shopping centers are well landscaped, in a way that just cannot be done on a feeder road.

By eliminating the feeders, you reduce land needed for the freeway. Condemnation, one of the biggest costs of the Katy project, is reduced. Developers will still put projects near the freeway, just on the adjacent street. This still gives neighbors a buffer, while incorporating the retail into the community. Locals will quickly figure out how to get there. And, with the proliferation of advertising on TV, radio, print and internet, there will be no loss of revenue from not facing a freeway.

Texas politicos are so obsessed with doing everything that business wants, and business is so shortsighted, that they don't see the value to improving the scenery in Houston as a way to improve the quality of life, and therefore, the growth of the city (and corresponingly, business revenue). Community activists should realize this in framing the debate on these issues. By pointing out new ways to improve the freeway, while pointing out how business also profits, we may change a few minds.

[ansem]

I wish Houston freeway could be beautifully landscaped and lush as these expressways in Singapore.Beautiful and low maintenance.

Main avenue to the airport.If BRoadway to Hobby could be like this:

[Guest Plastic]

I'd want it to be part of The Trans Texas Corridor.

Put 3 feedar lanes on each side.

Put 6 Maianlanes on eachside.

Put 4 HOT lanes on each side.

In The Midde Put

Put 2 commuter rail tacks.

Put 2 High Speed Rail tracks.

A set of high voltage lines

Telephone Lines

Gas Pipelines

Cable Line

Telecom Lines

&Sewer Lines.

[RedScare]

That would work great! We'd only need to wipe out two to three blocks of neighborhood on either side. Wouldn't Rick Perry be proud, showing it off to his friends?

Seriously, while driving on 45 this afternoon, I noticed two things. One, a depressed mainlane section, even with the managed lanes, could fit fairly easily in the existing ROW, while lowering noise levels. Two, we absolutely DO NOT need feeder lanes inside the loop. There are none now, so there are no businesses fronting the freeway that need driveway access. Exit ramps in this area do not back up, but they can be constructed of sufficient length to ensure that it is never a problem.

I believe that the same thing could be done on the section outside the loop, as well. Even if this section is only partially depressed, the dirt that is removed from the mainlanes can be used to create berms on the side of the freeway. This will provide noise reduction and create an uneven landscape for better landscaping.

The majority of the feeders can be removed here as well. Most of the businesses along this stretch of road abut a side street. The business can re-orient it's parking to these side streets for access. In severe cases, a loop can be run between two side streets to provide access for businesses that don't abut a side street. In a few extreme cases, TXDOT can purchase the land for a green space, since it would be saving so much money on ROW by not including feeders.

Most of the businesses on this stretch either serve the neighborhood, and so don't need easy freeway access, or are close enough to major streets to have easy access from that major street. Any business big enough to draw from outside the neighborhood, such as The Dump or Gallery Furniture, also has an advertising budget big enough to direct people to the store. It will not hurt sales. The improved look of the freeway will help sales. And getting rid of feeders will allow businesses to reorient themselves to help the neighborhoods they serve, so the freeway can be used for what it is designed to do...transport people through it.

[Guest Plastic]

You can't have Houston without Feeders. Only a few cases don'pt have feeders.

I think my plan would work except we could use double decked hiways. Like out in California they have 2 story highways. DOn't understand why they don't do that in Houston

Both I-10 and 6-10 could use them. Instead of buting the HOT lanes off of 610 they could situate them above the exsiting lanes of the West Loop.

[RedScare]

"You can't have Houston without Feeders. Only a few cases don'pt have feeders."

Uhm, Yes, you can.

"I think my plan would work except we could use double decked hiways. Like out in California they have 2 story highways. DOn't understand why they don't do that in Houston"

Maybe, because they have a tendency to fall on top of each other during earthquakes.

"Both I-10 and 6-10 could use them. Instead of buting the HOT lanes off of 610 they could situate them above the exsiting lanes of the West Loop."

That would be attractive. After we do that, maybe we could convince Austinites that Houston really is a cool town.

[nmainguy]

"You can't have Houston without Feeders. Only a few cases don'pt have feeders."

Uhm, Yes, you can.

"I think my plan would work except we could use double decked hiways. Like out in California they have 2 story highways. DOn't understand why they don't do that in Houston"

Maybe, because they have a tendency to fall on top of each other during earthquakes.

"Both I-10 and 6-10 could use them. Instead of buting the HOT lanes off of 610 they could situate them above the exsiting lanes of the West Loop."

That would be attractive.  After we do that, maybe we could convince Austinites that Houston really is a cool town.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yeah, let's just double deck the whole system...then in 10 years we could triple deck them...or hey! here's a crazey idea: let's just quit building freeways altogether. Then the people from the Woodlands could figure out a way to stop mucking up my neihborhood and my home. What a concept, huh?

[westguy]

I-45 is double decked around Scott Street near UH. It's not pretty, though.

[Guest Plastic]

Who care sabout it being pretty I just want tog et through town. Besides I love large blocks of concrete.

As for earthquakes, we don't have those out here. SO there's no reason to worry about a double decker falling from an earthquake anywhere within Texas.

[kjb434]

Redscare,

You elvautation of the I-45 right of way is concurrent with TxDOT's. They are planning little right of way acquisition. The worse case scenario discuss a re-alignment of I-45 because of Dowtown 2525 proposal. I doubt that would happen. It seems TxDOT will eliminate the embankments on the depressed section to widened the freeway. More like the Central Expressway in Dallas.

TxDOT proposing feeder roads along the trenched portion is to alleviate an Tropical Storm Allision propblem. If the freeway is flooded, a possible alternative exists. I would rather traffic be routed through feeder roads than through my neighborhood.

I-10 from Washington to Studemont will be getting feeders as part of the Katy Freeway project for the same reason.

Both of these depressed sections do not have pump station to draw the water down after large storms.