White Announces Way Cleared For Fed Transit $

[H-Town Man]

Does it seem funny to anyone that right after the election, Culberson was saying that "the people have spoken," and so he's going to put personal opinions aside and "go to bat for Houston," and Tom Delay said he "wouldn't stand in the way"... and since they've made these alterations, NOW these guys are saying that they'll go to work for Houston? How many more times will we have to up the ante before these guys "go to work for Houston"? And when will they actually be going to work? It's almost two years since the election... when are we going to start seeing some actual dollar amounts headed to Houston? And how will we ever really know if these guys are working hard for us or not? Are they just going to come out of committee rooms, shrug their shoulders, smile and say, "Sorry guys, there just wasn't enough?"...

[C2H]

the only thing i can say that i don't like about this new plan is the fact that BRT lines are not doing anything to alleviate the already existing problem we have of dirty, polluted air. It's really more or less contributing to the problem.

Anyone else with me on that?

[Houstonian in Iraq]

the only thing i can say that i don't like about this new plan is the fact that BRT lines are not doing anything to alleviate the already existing problem we have of dirty, polluted air. It's really more or less contributing to the problem.

Anyone else with me on that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't running on electricty.....the same way as the light rail is?

No Exaust

[N Judah]

I thought they were going to be some kind of diesel hybrid. At least, I believe that's how it's done in other BRT cities.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

I thought they were going to be some kind of diesel hybrid.  At least, I believe that's how it's done in other BRT cities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that sucks....so the wires just guide it?

Fill me in getting sleepy check y'all out later nite nite

[ssullivan]

There are no wires on the BRT lines. That's one of the things that's not being installed to save money during the initial construction. The overhead wires will be installed when the lines are converted to light rail.

The buses used on the BRT lines will likely be diesel hybrids, which will be less polluting than the current all diesel buses that make up most of Metro's fleet. But they won't be full electric trolley buses running off overhead power supply lines.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

There are no wires on the BRT lines. That's one of the things that's not being installed to save money during the initial construction. The overhead wires will be installed when the lines are converted to light rail.

The buses used on the BRT lines will likely be diesel hybrids, which will be less polluting than the current all diesel buses that make up most of Metro's fleet. But they won't be full electric trolley buses running off overhead power supply lines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess it's not that bad as long as we end up with rail at the end.

Feels kinda shady though .......hope we don't get stiffed

[bruce_oneal]

There are no wires on the BRT lines. That's one of the things that's not being installed to save money during the initial construction. The overhead wires will be installed when the lines are converted to light rail.

The buses used on the BRT lines will likely be diesel hybrids, which will be less polluting than the current all diesel buses that make up most of Metro's fleet. But they won't be full electric trolley buses running off overhead power supply lines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

steve are you back in houston?

[N Judah]

The buses used on the BRT lines will likely be diesel hybrids, which will be less polluting than the current all diesel buses that make up most of Metro's fleet. But they won't be full electric trolley buses running off overhead power supply lines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe they'll be biodiesel hybrids. Then maybe Houston can get a biodiesel gas station, like the one that just opened up in Seattle.

[bruce_oneal]

Maybe they'll be biodiesel hybrids.  Then maybe Houston can get a biodiesel gas station, like the one that just opened up in Seattle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

we're getting a plant --out near the ship channel i think?

[YakuzaIce]

we're getting a plant --out near the ship channel i think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...wtopic=1317&hl=

If they do use the BRT trains to test new lines will it be a dedicated lane? If they just use it in normal traffic it will just be a large bus. Then knowing metro they will say ridership wasn't high enough and thus no light rail for that corridor. But for the current plan my only worry is that Metro cheaps out and doesn't install the overhead wires and buy the LRTs in the future.

[bruce_oneal]

yeah

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...wtopic=1317&hl=

If they do use the BRT trains to test new lines will it be a dedicated lane?  If they just use it in normal traffic it will just be a large bus.  Then knowing metro they will say ridership wasn't high enough and thus no light rail for that corridor.  But for the current plan my only worry is that Metro cheaps out and doesn't install the overhead wires and buy the LRTs in the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah. that's kinda my fear as well. that and the fact that it looks like those getting the short end of the stick could be neighborhoods with mainly people of color and/or those with lower incomes. many of the same people that keep metro in business through thick and thin.

[YakuzaIce]

yeah.  that's kinda my fear as well.  that and the fact that it looks like those getting the short end of the stick could be neighborhoods with mainly people of color and/or those with lower incomes.  many of the same people that keep metro in business through thick and thin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah that was my other misgiving about the plan. Weren't they the main supporters of the vote on the metro solutions plan? It seems they are getting the short end of the stick on something they have supported all along. But at least with this plan we get federal money and all the lines get put on the fast track.

[bruce_oneal]

Yeah that was my other misgiving about the plan.  Weren't they the main supporters of the vote on the metro solutions plan?  It seems they are getting the short end of the stick on something they have supported all along.  But at least with this plan we get federal money and all the lines get put on the fast track.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agreed. my main thing right now is having a choice of whether to drive (or take some sort of rapid transit) to various parts of the city. for all the high tech glamour of the current rail line, i am not in the reliant center, the medical center, midtown, or downtown all that much to benefit from using it. but if i could go from beltway 8 (at westheimer or richmond) downtown, without having to deal with traffic. well, now we're talking.

[kjb434]

Most of the current bus ridership is people who use the buses out of necessity. The rail lines are very good at getting people who don't typically use mass transit. Rail lines are also good for tourist and visitors to get around since they may not know the city well enough to use a bus.

In the end, Metro is a psuedo-business aiming for a higher customer base. They pretty much have all the riders that need mass transit as a primary form a transportation. They also are successful with the commuters that use the park-n-ride system on the freeways. The commuter rail and light rail line are used to entice people who don't use mass transit to use it. This is why anti-rail people can through out so many statistics to oppose light rail. LRT is primarily base on expected ridership.

Metro has been very successful by consolidated bus lines with the current LRT to increase ridership. They most probably did the same thing for the other LRT and BRT lines.

I don't think it has to do anything with lower income versus higher income as it appears. It has more to do with there existing customer base and how to get new customers.

[RedScare]

There was an article in the Chron this weekend that showed Metro ridership DOWN 5%. The success of LRT was not enough to overcome losses of bus riders. Lots of possibilities were put forth, but nothing obvious, other than some discontinued lines that had low ridership.

Overall ridership was 95 million, versus 100 million previously.

[kjb434]

Still not that bad. The low ridership lines were probably cost prohibitive. Losing 5% ridership could mean higher overall income to METRO.

This isn't unusual for a large transit authority. Hopefully the new LRT and BRT lines will up ridership or least increase the efficiency of METRO overall.

[RedScare]

What surprised me was a loss of ridership as gas prices escalated. Not what you would've suspected. However, many things affect ridership, including the economy. There may have been some subtle shifts that weren't picked up on a regional or statewide scale. Hope it corrects itself.

[kjb434]

I don't thing gas prices are anywhere near the point people will leave there cars and start using mass transit. I'd put it more in the upper $3 or $4 range.

[bruce_oneal]

I don't thing gas prices are anywhere near the point people will leave there cars and start using mass transit.  I'd put it more in the upper $3 or $4 range.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agreed! i think we are not going to abandone the cars until gas hits $3.25 or so. at that point it would cost $70 to fill up an suv. at that rate, it would cost $280 (minimum houston driving) a month in fuel. that is a CAR NOTE!

as it is, i know people filling up at $50/week and they seem to be almost oblivious to the effects on their pocketbooks. maybe people here just have awfully deep pockets, or a high tolerance for fuel costs?

on second thought, unless it is impacting their pappadeaux's habit i doubt they'd care too much.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Road construction in downtown and the resulting switching of buses from different streets DT cost METRO riders. The minute the Cotswold and DT Street projects began, METRO started losing bus riders due to route relocation. It's been happening since about 1999, I believe. I'm sure there are other smaller factors, but typically rerouting buses for long stretches of time (like what METRO has been doing off and on for the last four or five years) hurts a transit agency's bus ridership. Adding to that, of course, is the terminating of bus routes at transit centers that tie in to the rail line like the TMC Transit Center or the Wheeler Station.

I would expect bus ridership to at least stabalize now that Smith and Travis Street construction is almost done. I have no idea how long it will be before bus ridership then starts to increase.

[kjb434]

luckily i fill my car up about every three weeks. That about $36 for an 18 gallon tank (car requirese premium, damn European cars).

[ssullivan]

steve are you back in houston?

Yes, I'm actually here for a full two weeks. I'm out of training now so my typical schedule is to fly out every Monday and return Thursday night or Friday morning, depending on where I am and what the flight schedules back to IAH look like. Right now I'm in the middle of 15 consecutive nights at home, the most I've had since mid-March! It's mainly because my client next week is here in Houston. But it does feel very odd not to be getting on a plane or checking into a hotel.

Back to the topic at hand, I'm one of those people who is trying to cut back on my $2.00+/gallon gas by taking Metro a little more. The fact that the air conditioning in my car is about dead and I'm planning to buy a new car next month is also contributing to that. Metro's buses and trains are MUCH more comfortable to ride on a hot July afternoon than my poor car with the windows rolled down and barely a trickle of air blowing through the dashboard vents.

[713 To 214]

There was an article in the Chron this weekend that showed Metro ridership DOWN 5%.  The success of LRT was not enough to overcome losses of bus riders.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not many people ride the rail line b/c it doesn't serve many of their communities. It's basically only useful for those living in the Medical Center/Reliant Park area who work downtown. Otherwise, it's just basically a tourist attraction.

[ssullivan]

Not many people ride the rail line b/c it doesn't serve many of their communities.  It's basically only useful for those living in the Medical Center/Reliant Park area who work downtown.  Otherwise, it's just basically a tourist attraction.

This is so untrue! I ride MetroRail all the time starting from the TMC Transit Center, where I transfer from the 4 Beechnut bus to the rail line. Most of the people who make that transfer with me do not live anywhere close to the Med Center -- many live in far southwest Houston. Same thing with people coming from many other bus lines from the west, southwest, and southeast sides of town. I do not work downtown or in the Med Center but use Metro to get downtown for other activities. Does riding Metro to meet friends downtown for dinner or a movie at the Angelika or a play in the theater district make me a tourist?

I would say that the majority of people who regularly use the rail live more than two or three miles away from it. Spend some time at one of the three major bus transit points along the rail line or the Fannin South Park and Ride lot and I think you'll see that it's not just Med Center/Reliant Park residents using the system.

And that article in the Chronicle was comparing about three or four years of bus ridership decreases to one year of light rail service. For 2004, the first year of rail service, the rail line increase in ridership more than offset the decrease in bus ridership for that year. The Chronicle article was talking about the total loss in bus ridership from about 2000 or 2001 through 2004. The rail line is still showing increases in passengers, and at the current rate, it won't be long before Metro's total ridership numbers have recovered.

[713 To 214]

This is so untrue! I ride MetroRail all the time starting from the TMC Transit Center, where I transfer from the 4 Beechnut bus to the rail line. Most of the people who make that transfer with me do not live anywhere close to the Med Center -- many live in far southwest Houston. Same thing with people coming from many other bus lines from the west, southwest, and southeast sides of town. I do not work downtown or in the Med Center but use Metro to get downtown for other activities. Does riding Metro to meet friends downtown for dinner or a movie at the Angelika or a play in the theater district make me a tourist?

I would say that the majority of people who regularly use the rail live more than two or three miles away from it. Spend some time at one of the three major bus transit points along the rail line or the Fannin South Park and Ride lot and I think you'll see that it's not just Med Center/Reliant Park residents using the system.

And that article in the Chronicle was comparing about three or four years of bus ridership decreases to one year of light rail service. For 2004, the first year of rail service, the rail line increase in ridership more than offset the decrease in bus ridership for that year. The Chronicle article was talking about the total loss in bus ridership from about 2000 or 2001 through 2004. The rail line is still showing increases in passengers, and at the current rate, it won't be long before Metro's total ridership numbers have recovered.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are to be comended for your dedication to mass transit. It seems as though you go through a lot (of transfers) to accomplish your daily commute. I wish more people would embrace that same outlook. However, the sad reality is that you are the exception NOT the rule when you look at Houstonians as a whole, and how they feel about METRORail.

[kjb434]

There are also many commuters to the TMC and Downtown that park the South Fannin Park-n-Ride lot and take the train in. I can see commuters comming from the Sienna Plantation area using the FB Parkway and extention to I-610 to get to the rail for downtown and TMC access.

That Park-n-Ride is a key point especially when the Commuter Rail to

Fort Bend ends there. The LRT will need to move the passengers into the loop.

[ssullivan]

You are to be comended for your dedication to mass transit.  It seems as though you go through a lot (of transfers) to accomplish your daily commute.  I wish more people would embrace that same outlook.  However, the sad reality is that you are the exception NOT the rule when you look at Houstonians as a whole, and how they feel about METRORail.

Thanks. And as I said, this is not a daily commute. I don't work downtown (my officie is actually at home and most of the time I work at client sites all over the country). However, a trip on Metro downtown involves one transfer for me if I take the rail, and no transfers if I take the 18 Kirby Limited bus. The bus only option is much slower so I never do that. However, the total trip time for me to get from my place to the TMC Transit Center on the 4 Beechnut is less than 10 minutes, and travel time from the TMC Transit Center downtown is about 20-30 minutes, depending on traffic. My average travel time from getting on the bus here to getting off the train downtown and walking to my final destination is usually about 30-40 minutes. To drive from where I live downtown, park, and walk to where I'm going takes about the same amount of time.

To say I go through a lot to get downtown on Metro is taking the attitude that getting on any public transit at all "takes a lot." One transfer between bus and rail to me seems like a lot less than what many frequent Metro riders do.

[kjb434]

You are a good example that the trip you are making is more efficient by public transit. And public transit that has more than one option. Metro is trying to find more customers like you who can utilize there systems when it easier than driving. I reall see the east-west line and transfer to and from the north-south line will become a good option for many people that would not prefer to drive.

[RedScare]

Not many people ride the rail line b/c it doesn't serve many of their communities.  It's basically only useful for those living in the Medical Center/Reliant Park area who work downtown.  Otherwise, it's just basically a tourist attraction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You clearly did not read either my post or the Chronicle article. LRT is a big success. However, BUS ridership dropped more than than LRT increased, resulting in an overall total decrease for Metro.

Read before you criticize.