As Houston Adds Sprawl, The Consequences Multiply

[ToolMan]

As Houston adds sprawl, the consequences multiply

[RedScare]

Good to see the Chronicle, as well as the mayor, paying attention to issues, such as this. Not even 10 years ago, would you have seen an article like this, nor would a Houston mayor have proposed policies designed to at least give home buyers an option other than going farther into the sticks.

If we could get County leaders on board with at least a nod to the problem, we might make some progress.

[houstonsemipro]

No matter what happens, sprawl will continue. You can not stop sprawl. Sprawl is in every major cities in america today. There was an long article about sprawl in major cities, it was a couple months back. If somebody could find it and post it, that be great.

But, the article mention its no win against sprawl. So, will these articles about sprawl here and there, they just wasting their time typing an article about it.

Like Bill White quoted in the article, "One person's sprawl is another person's dream house."

[RedScare]

True. Until something dramatic like completely unafforadable transportation costs, or a societal change in attitude about where best to raise a child occurs, there will continue to be a trek to the countryside in search of the perfect house.

Interestingly, dense living is far more attractive to kids, since they have more friends within walking/biking distance. There are a few studies out there that suggest suburban subdivisions are "adult playgrounds" that mostly, or completely, ignore kids, specifically teenagers. There are few places for teens to "hang out", and increasingly, mall or shopping center owners see teens in groups as negatively affecting sales, and therefore, seek to run them off.

Parents, understandably, want their kids to be safe, but, in doing so, often shelter the child needlessly.

PS - Before I get flamed with all the wonderful "family" things to do in all of these popular subdivisions, please recall your youth, and specifically, recall how little you wanted to do with your parents occasionally, especially in your high school years. These alone times are important to teens. It is the start of weaning from parents toward eventual self support and independence.

I'll see if I can find a little more educated thought on this. It was very interesting and enlightening.

[Gary]

As a Father of two (a 4 and 1 year old) I moved to Katy to escape the problems mentioned. I love the area I'm in (Cinco Ranch), it's well cared for, safe and I have most of everything I need for day to day life. Since being a full time musician I generally don't go into town unless I want to see a friend or take in a fun evening in the village. So I like it out here.

That being said, Red Scare makes a good point about density catering to kids. In fact I've never considered that being viable because of safety and cost issues, however the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

As a lover of urbanity, it would be great to move my family to a safe, more dense area of town. Of course somehow we've got to create more affordable and controlled housing to make this possible.

[kjb434]

The non-proit and HGAC coordination has been something in the works and it's finally underway.

I just felt sick reading the first half of the article because it sounded like the world is going to end. It really isn't that bad people.

[jghall00]

As a Father of two (a 4 and 1 year old) I moved to Katy to escape the problems mentioned. I love the area I'm in (Cinco Ranch), it's well cared for, safe and I have most of everything I need for day to day life. Since being a full time musician I generally don't go into town unless I want to see a friend or take in a fun evening in the village. So I like it out here.

That being said, Red Scare makes a good point about density catering to kids. In fact I've never considered that being viable because of safety and cost issues, however the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

As a lover of urbanity, it would be great to move my family to a safe, more dense area of town. Of course somehow we've got to create more affordable and controlled housing to make this possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife and I have a 3 year and old and a 10 month old. We're fighting a move to the suburbs because they seem so empty. We drove to Sienna Plantation this past weekend. A beautiful Saturday, and there was barely anyone out. It's a shame there's not more investment in closer in neighborhoods. There's an entire section of the city inside the loop that is completely run down, with marginal or poor schools. The neighborhood west of I-45 at North Main is a perfect example of what could be done with older housing stock, if people really wanted to reinvest in the city.

[The Great Hizzy!]

My wife and I have a 3 year and old and a 10 month old.  We're fighting a move to the suburbs because they seem so empty.  We drove to Sienna Plantation this past weekend.  A beautiful Saturday, and there was barely anyone out.  It's a shame there's not more investment in closer in neighborhoods.  There's an entire section of the city inside the loop that is completely run down, with marginal or poor schools.  The neighborhood west of I-45 at North Main is a perfect example of what could be done with older housing stock, if people really wanted to reinvest in the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this is happening, albeit slowly. In the five or so years I've been in Houston, I've seen the borders of what has traditionally been known as Houston Heights and Woodland Heights extend closer to this section of Main Street as well as E. 20th street. Now I'm starting to see similar renovations of older homes take place north and east of these streets. I can't say for sure how long this phenomena will last but I can say that this type of thing continues. The real problem, as I see it, in terms of neighborhoods inside the loop that need attention is in the Fifth Ward. I don't see this area improving significantly until commercial entities are more willing to invest in the community at large.

What the area JGHall is speaking of has in its favor are reputable retail outlets that seem to be in it for the long haul. Add the influx of middle to upper middle income whites and latinos (and some Asians) to the surrounding communities and I think the push continues.

[Guest danax]

  It's a shame there's not more investment in closer in neighborhoods.  There's an entire section of the city inside the loop that is completely run down, with marginal or poor schools.  The neighborhood west of I-45 at North Main is a perfect example of what could be done with older housing stock, if people really wanted to reinvest in the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As Hizzy said, it's happening slowly but surely. However, there are large sections inside the loop where the housing stock are not up to the vast majority's standards in terms of size, style and features, so, although they might accept the transitional neighborhoods and marginal schools, they feel forced to move out far where the house will work for them. Plus, the "master planned" look is appealing to many.

So, for now, it's just the pioneer types and the ones who can't afford the suburban new home, but would actually prefer one if they could, who live in these older, modest, inner-loop neighborhoods. Traffic is still not bad enough to force people to throw in the towel and their long commutes and give up the suburban advantages and begin buying in these neighborhoods en masse. That time is rapidly approaching though.

[jghall00]

What the area JGHall is speaking of has in its favor are reputable retail outlets that seem to be in it for the long haul. Add the influx of middle to upper middle income whites and latinos (and some Asians) to the surrounding communities and I think the push continues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking about this a few minutes ago, in the context of suburban development. What I realized is that retail follows the money, and not the other way around. That's why Sienna Plantation had no retail, the population wasn't significant enough to warrant attention from businesses. But if these inner loop communities attracted people willing to invest in the neighborhood, eventually retail would follow.

I believe if HISD ever gets its act together, or public school vouchers become available, you'll see a lot happening in these areas. What I realized after reading "The Two-Income Trap" by Elizabeth Warren, is that to a large extent housing prices are driven by the quality of the schools that are zoned for a particular zip code. If this connection was broken, there would be all sorts of areas that would become viable for people wanting to stay in the loop, because they would no longer have to worry about their kids education.

[jghall00]

So, for now, it's just the pioneer types and the ones who can't afford the suburban new home, but would actually prefer one if they could, who live in these older, modest, inner-loop neighborhoods. Traffic is still not bad enough to force people to throw in the towel and their long commutes and give up the suburban advantages and begin buying in these neighborhoods en masse. That time is rapidly approaching though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree. The suburban homes, sq-ft for sq-ft, are cheaper then the inner city ones. This reflects the availability of land in the suburbs. You're right about the pioneer types moving into the city. The pioneer types are often the well-to-do people who have the income to invest in an older home, and probably no kids. You don't find lower income people buying homes in the heights or other trendy neighborhoods because they can't afford something in the suburbs. Middle class people are the ones you find purchasing in new subdivisions. As their income grows, and the kids get older and move out, they relocate.

Also, I don't think people prefer homes in the suburbs because of the Master planned community feel. I think they buy these homes because it's what they can afford, not to mention the quality of the local schools. Many of these of one-time suburban communities become run-down over the course of 20 - 30 years. Why? From lack of investment. Many people who buy homes in these areas aspire to something better, hence the term starter home. They upgrade as soon as they can afford to do so. As the housing stock becomes older and deteriorates, people who can afford to reinvest invest elsewhere, in places like the heights. That's why the neighborhoods go downhill...lack of investment. Many of these subdivisions are just ghettos in the making. Of course, the vast majority of the first time buyers in these places won't be around when they get really bad.

That's one of the problems with new developments, they're not connected to anything. There's no long-term incentive to re-invest in them. If you want a bigger house, you leave. If you want a house that doesn't look like everyone else's, you leave. If you want a condo, or amenities like parks, theaters, etc...you leave. There's no reason to stick around long-term.

[Talbot]

I know exactly what you mean Red Scare, myself being 17 and living in the Katy area on Mason Rd. I find it extremely boring along with a lot of my friends. Personally I can't wait to move closer to downtown.

Just the other day me and a few friends were wondering what we can do, but it was hopeless. IMO I think the suburbs bring out trouble in teens since they are bored. For example a few friends of mine went egging last night because they were so bored.

[GovernorAggie]

I also agree with the boredom of some of the farther out areas, but as much as I would like to live in-town (as some of you have seen me inquire about), I fear that the time may not be now to live closer to the central city--even areas outside the Loop but inside the Belt.

For instance, there are plenty of very cost-effective homes off Antoine and Bingle, but my wife doesn't feel as secure there and to be honest, I don't either. I love the Heights, Museum District, Villages, Greenway Plaza, West Univesity, etc., and so does she, but we currently can't afford a home with the amount of space she desires. Especially when you consider the other costs associated with them (e.g. maintenance) and 2 bedroom apartments can be had in San Angelo--oops I mean Eldridge and 1960--for $900 a month and 1200-1300 square feet (and please don't go on about how my wife is foolish/selfish/etc. for wanting that amount of space b/c I can't understand it either but when wife's happy life's happy ).

Maybe when our income is higher and we can maybe afford a fixer-upper on the eastside (and if schools are up to snuff) we'll move closer in.

[rps324]

I guess what I have a problem with is the diminishing of closer in communities, such as what happened to Spring Valley, for the benefit of those that choose to live in the next county. If you have factors such as schools, affordability, etc that drives your decision to move much farther out, fine, the factors are probably valid ones. But if someone chooses to live closer in for equally valid reasons, why should they have blocks of their community ripped out so a family of four can squeeze into 3000+ sf in Fulshear? There have been discussions/proposals on freeways and/or tollways running through all sorts of areas ranging from the middle of Memorial park to the middle of the Heights. They may or may not come to pass, but my point is if a segment of the population chooses to live that far out, go for it, but don't expect to pave the rest of us out of our neighborhoods in the process.