Yes, It's A Tad Off Topic

[Nikki_E]

just for the record?

I'm a native New Yorker. I live in Austin. I have nothing particular against Houston. I've only been there once or twice and not really long enough to appreciate it. I wouldn't render a judgment based on my limited experience. Sure seemed to be wall-to-wall highway though which was not my FAVORITE thing, but it could be all perception.

What brought me to say this is that while Googling to try to find the 10 or so best cities for public transit, I was brought to a thread on this board where someone posted the top cities rated by visitors based on certain categories (I seem to recall that this was at least several months old) and someone made the comment, "Who cares about things like best people-watching and best mass transit? New York has the biggest mass transit system in the world and they came in dead last in commute time."

I care about mass transit. It is extraordinarily important in the lives of working and middle-class people who can't afford to be tied to things like car loans and insurance and maintenance on a vehicle. We fall in that category, regretably, and I live in terror of the car breaking down because there is no getting to the store, no getting to work, no getting to school, no having a life if that happens. In fact, I have analyzed this to a huge extent and by the time you add the cost of vehicle ownership to the cost of rent or mortgage here, you have balanced out the cost of living between New York City and any major city in Texas. You see, the vast majority of New Yorkers don't own cars and don't need to own cars.

Having given you all this background, I would just like to say that the reason NY came in dead last in commute time is because they aren't predicating it on just the mass transit system. They are figuring in people from outlying areas (remember that NYC has about 8 million people but the NY tri-state area has about 20 million people and includes Long Island, Westchester, New Jersey and Connecticut) who despite the availability of mass transit refuse to take the TRAIN. The Long Island Expressway, the only way to NYC by car, is well known as little more than a huge parking lot. When you have a compact geographical area as the Northeastern states are compared to Texas, it's hard to really keep traffic moving -- and we have a lot more toll roads to slow things down. It's unfortunate that these suburbaners insist on being so resistant because you can get from Montauk (check a map of Long Island and look all way east until you're about to fall into the water) to Manhattan using the Long Island Rail Road in about 40 minutes.

Analysts never tell you these things, just like they compare costs of living in different cities by assuming you'll own a car in both places when clearly this is not the case.

[2112]

just for the record?

I'm a native New Yorker. I live in Austin. I have nothing particular against Houston.  I've only been there once or twice and not really long enough to appreciate it.  I wouldn't render a judgment based on my limited experience.  Sure seemed to be wall-to-wall highway though which was not my FAVORITE thing, but it could be all perception.

What brought me to say this is that while Googling to try to find the 10 or so best cities for public transit, I was brought to a thread on this board where someone posted the top cities rated by visitors based on certain categories (I seem to recall that this was at least several months old) and someone made the comment, "Who cares about things like best people-watching and best mass transit?  New York has the biggest mass transit system in the world and they came in dead last in commute time."

I care about mass transit. It is extraordinarily important in the lives of working and middle-class people who can't afford to be tied to things like car loans and insurance and maintenance on a vehicle.  We fall in that category, regretably, and I live in terror of the car breaking down because there is no getting to the store, no getting to work, no getting to school, no having a life if that happens.  In fact, I have analyzed this to a huge extent and by the time you add the cost of vehicle ownership to the cost of rent or mortgage here, you have balanced out the cost of living between New York City and any major city in Texas.  You see, the vast majority of New Yorkers don't own cars and don't need to own cars.

Having given you all this background, I would just like to say that the reason NY came in dead last in commute time is because they aren't predicating it on just the mass transit system.  They are figuring in people from outlying areas (remember that NYC has about 8 million people but the NY tri-state area has about 20 million people and includes Long Island, Westchester, New Jersey and Connecticut) who despite the availability of mass transit refuse to take the TRAIN.  The Long Island Expressway, the only way to NYC by car, is well known as little more than a huge parking lot.  When you have a compact geographical area as the Northeastern states are compared to Texas, it's hard to really keep traffic moving -- and we have a lot more toll roads to slow things down.  It's unfortunate that these suburbaners insist on being so resistant because you can get from Montauk (check a map of Long Island and look all way east until you're about to fall into the water) to Manhattan using the Long Island Rail Road in about 40 minutes.

Analysts never tell you these things, just like they compare costs of living in different cities by assuming you'll own a car in both places when clearly this is not the case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Houston went through its large growth spurts AFTER the car became the main form of transportation. In fact, before the car, Houston had many train lines moving people around. It was not the only city to remove them, as most cities grew in large proportions after the car came into the picture. By the time traffic became an issue here, it was too late. This city, like LA and others, is very spread out. Now, there are initiatives to augment this with more light rail lines, 100 miles of it to be precise, that are in the plans. And, commuter trains are in the plans too. This takes time and money. It is not easy like in NY because we are so spread out...it will cost lots of money. And in the mean time, you should check out what traffic looks like at 6:00am to 9:00am and 4:00pm to 6:30pm....You will notice tons of metro busses that are packed with commuters. So we do have mass transit here, mainly withing the city, but also to the commuter parts outside the core.

Most people on this forum are very pro-mass-transit. Just take the time to read many of the past posts over the years.

[2112]

One more thing. There was a traffic analysis done recently, I forget the source, that concluded that there would be 30% more vehicles on houston's streets if it wasnt for the existing mass transit, which included not only Metro, but some of the other transit companies such as the Woodlands Express. So Lke I said, there is no lack of transit mentality here. The problem is that there much more that is still needed.

[jghall00]

I'm a native New Yorker, and I do have something against Houston. Without turning this into a delicate flower-fest, I'd like to express my frustration at my inability to get anywhere safely without my car. Is a sidewalk so hard to build?

Anyway, this car-oriented development is not unique to Houston. It's the predominant form of development after WWII, and yes, it sucks. It'll be a long time before anything changes though. Probably nearer the end of our lifetimes, I'm sorry to say. The coming oil crunch may hasten the change though, God willing.

[skwatra]

first off, let me just say i'm pro mass transit, and i hope houston builds a system that's worthwhile. there is a good post on here where someone explained the history of why things are the way they are, from the post-car boom to Delay.

but i wanted to clarify some stuff you said nikki.

i've flown into islip many times, and it takes 1.5 hours to get to Penn station, at $14. each time i went (off peak) the train was empty. Montauk is about twice that distace, the lirr schedule shows 3 hours. not sure where your 40 minute estimate came from.

also, other than my friends who are students in manhattan, the rest have cars. if you live in white plains and want to go out, the last train runs just after midnight, that just doesn't cut it.

as for the cost of living, you may be right in some cases, but depending on your lifestyle even if you factor in not owning a car it would still be cheaper to live down here.

i would rather have a 800 sqft apartment and pay $600/mo then have a 200 sqft studio for $1200 in SoHo.

to each their own...

[skwatra]

I'm a native New Yorker, and I do have something against Houston.  Without turning this into a delicate flower-fest, I'd like to express my frustration at my inability to get anywhere safely without my car.  Is a sidewalk so hard to build? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

welcome to houston, hopefully you'll get used it.

just kidding, where are you talking about? we walk around dowtown, midtown, and the village all the time, there are plenty of sidewalks, but you do have to worry about someone running a redlight.

[jghall00]

welcome to houston, hopefully you'll get used it.

just kidding, where are you talking about? we walk around dowtown, midtown, and the village all the time, there are plenty of sidewalks, but you do have to worry about someone running a redlight.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Used to it? I've been here since '95! I live near the Galleria, at Westpark and Newcastle. All the sidewalks here either terminate abruptly, or were never built. I live around the block from the mall, and there's no safe walking route.

[citykid09]

^There is a plan underway to fix all of that, if you haven't noticed the Galleria area is becoming more urban. There was an article about the plan in 002 magazine.