Is Houston Being Locked In

[HtownKid]

Where is Houston actually expanding, its seems to be a huge ring of suburbs to the South an West is the actual City of Houston landlocked now?

[Gary]

Where is Houston actually expanding, its seems to be a huge ring of suburbs to the South an West is the actual City of Houston landlocked now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Landlocked? There's nothing but land here.

[HeightsGuy]

That would be a problem if Houston needed land, but it doesn't. Recent history shows Houston annexes areas that can add to the tax base. Look at the crazy city boundries, Houston bypasses under-developed areas and goes for the developed (see northeast side/Kingwood area). Whether people like it or not (re. Kingwood), many of the mud districs created in the Houston vicintity have riders attached that allow Houston to annex at will.

There is plenty of room for Houston to grow when needed.

[Guest Professional Hornblower]

Where is Houston actually expanding, its seems to be a huge ring of suburbs to the South an West is the actual City of Houston landlocked now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Houston is not landlocked- Isn't the Houston Ship Channel part of the city of Houston. How can this be land-locked if we have access to the Gulf?

[HtownKid]

LOL I didnt mean like that I meant city being locked development wise by suburbs.

What exactly is MUD?

[kjb434]

A MUD is a municipal utility district. For years the city/county used to expand by allow MUDs to develope. The MUD will charge it's residents through MUD taxes to pay for the infrastructure such as roads, water, storm water, and sanitary utilities. When the MUD finished paying all of its debt, they would disolve into the city. Some of the MUD may still be intact after the annexation for neighborhood groups. Back in the early eighties or late seventies, some people who live in the suburbs in the MUDs didn't want to become part of the city. They had legislation passed to where the city would have to go through a 3 year process to annex any new land including a MUD. In this time the opposing group can rally support from the people being annexed against annexation. This explains why the city really hasn't expanded in years. The areas that were recently expanded such as Kingwood and Clear Lake went through this process and the city was able to add them. Much of the MUDs on the northwest side are opposed to annexation. They fear that the city would not be responsible in handling their needs like the MUD.

The county was in on this too. Most of the major thoroughfares in the county are paid and built for by the county, but the county was assuming that the city will annex the land after development finishes and take on the maintenance. The county is now reallizing that the lack of annexation in recent years is going to leave them with tons of mainenance woes. The city and some groups have push to change the legislation to allow them to be able to annex easiers, but they typically lose at the state level.

Houston can easily become the third largest city and surpass Chicago by annexing a lot of the areas it was suppose to. We would be closer to a 3 million or larger population.

Dallas and parts of Fort Worth or good examples of cities that are contained from annexation. The main reason is that MUDs are typically used over there. The suburban cities are typically opposed to it and get involved with all the development. The cities takes over and the cost for the infrastructure are passed onto the home owners by higher housing costs. The cities wins in the end by being able to tax without spending much for the development execept for being able to provide water, sewage and trash services. Fire and Police too.

Dallas is completely surrounded by incorporated areas except for the southeast side i think. Fort Worth is fairly surround too. Houston is free on the west, northwest, north, and northeast sides except for the individual city of Kay, Tomball, and Humble; but they don't take up much land.

[HtownKid]

Oh I always thought Katy/Cinco Ranch were a big suburban wall to the west. So city of Houston could build around Katy like a Penusula(Katy being the Penunsula.)

What is with ppl in suburban/rural areas always crying an b*tching about being annexed I dont get it.

[2112]

Who was that masked man?

[kjb434]

Katy is an extremely small city unto itself. Most of the area known as Katy isn't in any city. Houston has first dibs to jump on annexing it. It can annex all around Katy as long at the land is in its ETJ or extra territorial jurisdiction. This is pretty much the entire county except for the areas alread annexed. Houston has alread surrounded the cities know as Memorial Villages, Humble, West University, and Bellaire.

I need to find the link to the Major Thoroughfare plan map. It is a large pdf file that has all the are area we are talking about. It shows the city limits, the ETJ and other cities.

I'll post it as soon as I find it.

[kjb434]

Below is a link about Houston and Annexation from the City's website. At the bottom it shows they have no plans to annex unless the people in the suburbs want it.

Houston Annexation

[Guest danax]

Regarding MUDs, maybe KJB knows the answer, but in Spring between 45 and 59 off 1960, which is unincorporated, the manhole covers have the CoH logos. Just an observation that left me puzzled.

[kjb434]

A lot of the commercial areas along I-45 have special limited annexation. It is explained in the link i provided above. This could be why the manhole covers have CoH seals on them. These are primarily MUDs that have strictly commercial development. The concept of this annexation is to share the sales tax revenue between the city and the MUD. Most MUDs aren't in the sales tax revenuew business unless they happen to develop some commercial. Typically the revenue comes from property taxes. With this special annexation with the city, the MUDs can garner a new source of income and the city gets some of the revenue too. Good concept. The city also doensn't have to provide services. It becomes a win-win situation.

If I can find the link the Major Thoroufare and Freeway Plan (MTFP) map, it'll show you the annexed areas, the special annexed area, and the ETJ along with other incorporated areas.

It is a really usefull map. I have on my office wall.

[MidtownCoog]

Same thing in Fall Creek MUD (Humble/Houston line).

City of Houston has marked their territory.

But Houston can't annex Humble.

Which makes me think they drain into a CoH line. That way you know where its going when you dump your oil in there.

On a related note, the new storm water drain covers have a cool cartoon thingy that says "Empties into Galveston Bay Estuaires, etc."

Kinda cool. Gotta love a cartoon fish.

[HtownKid]

Katy is an extremely small city unto itself.  Most of the area known as Katy isn't in any city.  Houston has first dibs to jump on annexing it.  It can annex all around Katy as long at the land is in its ETJ or extra territorial jurisdiction.  This is pretty much the entire county except for the areas alread annexed.  Houston has alread surrounded the cities know as Memorial Villages, Humble, West University, and Bellaire.

I need to find the link to the Major Thoroughfare plan map.  It is a large pdf file that has all the are area we are talking about.  It shows the city limits, the ETJ and other cities.

I'll post it as soon as I find it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ohhh so West U an Humble are technically there own cities i didnt know that i thought they were just areas of town since they are in 610 loop or so close to it. So do they have Bellaire Fire/Police then?

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Where is Houston actually expanding, its seems to be a huge ring of suburbs to the South an West is the actual City of Houston landlocked now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course not. Up North is where Houston is to expand.

Annexation time...

If Houston does not annex Kleind area they will become landloacked, which would be awful.

[kjb434]

^^^^

What are you talking about? Nothing to the north exept Conroe, Tomball, and Humble are incorporated. Houston's ETJ gives it first dibs to annex close to everything in Harris County that is not annexed already. Houston also had dibs on the entire south portion of Montgomery County, northern portion of Fort Bend County, and some western portins of Waller County.

Whether or not Houston annexes the Klien, Spring, Cy-Fair areas, it will not be landlocked. Those areas or not cities unto themselves, so they won't prevent any annexation unless they vote against it. The city won't annex anything unless the people living their will not object. Don't expect mass annexations to occur unless some changes in state law occur.

And Htownkid, Humble, Katy, Tomball, West U, Bellaire all have their own police, fire departments. They have their own city halls and tax structure too. They elect a mayor and city councilmen. The same is true for these other cities within the Houston city limits called Memorial Villages: Spring Valley, Piney Point Village, Hunter's Creek Village, Bunker Hill Village, Hedwig Village, and Hillshire Village.

Galena Park and Jacinto City are also technically surrounded by Houston, but not by much.

Also the Port of Houston all along the Ship Channel from I-610 East Loop to Galveston Bay is not technically in Houston city limits, it is in a special annexation like explained in previous posts.

[Guest Professional Hornblower]

It's pretty much all about the Benjamin's.

That's it, really.

And who is sleeping with who

[arche_757]

Its about time the city will have to concentrate on --THE CITY -- and not anexing the next 1000 acres. I hope Houston doesnt get any larger - several years ago this would insense me, but now I have other complaints than simply losing ground to Jacksonville, and Oklahoma City.

One nice thing about all these little towns - is there to concentrate on there own redevelopment and subsequent growth.

[kjb434]

These small towns, especially the ones within the city are very anti-growth.

The want to keep things low and flat and have nothing new barge in.

Houston annexation 1000s of acres would just increase the tax rolls, which is the reason any town would annex more land.

Houston is actually annexing extremely smart because they are concentrating on limited purpse annexation so that they don't have to provide services except for police. This annexation is primarily commerical and office space. You see alot along I-45 norht of the beltway and Katy freeway past Hwy 6

[tierwestah]

Where is Houston actually expanding, its seems to be a huge ring of suburbs to the South an West is the actual City of Houston landlocked now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HELL NO!!!

[flatline]

If you look at a recent roadmap of the Houston area, you see that towns like Pearland, Alvin, Sugar Land, etc. have long spindly arms of land incorporated into their city limits along highways and major roads. Obviously those cities are looking ahead to the future growth along 288 and 59 south. I can see where Houston will be hemmed in along its southern border by those bedroom communities a la Richardson, Addison, Farmers Branch, Carrolton to Dallas.

[kjb434]

flatline, this is only happening on the south side. Houston northside is totally free. The only restriction is Tomball, Humble, Conroe, and Katy. This towns don't have room to grow because Houston has already set up and ETJ that surrounds them. Conroe has some freedom because Houston didn't see annexing that far. Conroe is attempting to abut all the Houston ETJs in Montgomery county with theirs to prevent Houston from going into the county any further. The best map to see Houston's true reach is the Major Thoroughfare and Freeway Plan Map.

Also, these finger annexations know and strip annexation are completely illegal now. Houston and many cities annexed right of ways all over the place to extend their ETJ powers and future annexation. The ROWs have no opposition to be annexed because no one lives there and therefore the city's annexation request to the state gets approved.

This has all changed now. What has been done can't be changed, but it won't happen again.

Brazoria County has some of the wackiest annexations. Look at the City of Alvin. It actually touches Fort Bend County on eventhough the city is on the other side of the county. Alvin and Iowa Colony have been in court for years because they have conflicting ETJs. Also, many boundaries in Brazoria for the cities and the county itselve where a water feature is present is not truly defined. It know this sounds crazy, but many rural counties have this situation. We are having issues design an subdivision right now because of all these issues.

[flatline]

The best map to see Houston's true reach is the Major Thoroughfare and Freeway Plan Map.

If you've got a quick link to that handy I'd like to see it. . .

[kjb434]

I've looked for it before. It used to be on the COH website under planning commission, but they have updated there website since and can't find it. The search feature isn't any help either. I have the pdf file on my computer. It is a nice size file though. If your email can take large files, I can send it too you.

You can send me a private message and I can send it too you. I may also be able to convert it to a JPG, but I'll have to give it to some to post.

[beetlemania]

To chime in here:

The reason you see "City of Houston" on manhole covers in MUDs outside the City of Houston limits is that all engineering projects in these ETJ areas must be designed according to the City of Houston specs, details and design criteria manual, which include the requirement of labeling such manhole covers. Plans for new development in ETJ, even if not in the City of Houston proper, must be submitted to and approved by the City of Houston before it can be constructed. This is to insure that, upon annexation, the infrastructure is "up to par" with City of Houston standards.

By the way, the inlet stenciling you see is also per City of Houston details / specs. As has been said, the idea is to keep people from dumping oil, trash, etc. directly into the storm sewer system, which eventually makes its way to Galveston Bay and the Gulf.

kjb434: are you a developer? Just curious, sounds like you've got some experience dealing with these bureaucratic issues...

The advent of the MUD has created a huge industry for the MUD consultants, i.e. the engineers, attorneys, bookkeepers, tax assessor collectors, operators, etc. for these individual MUDs. There are hundreds of MUDs in the Houston area, and each one usually has its group of individual consultants. This is big business, and it's probably an additional political reason why annexation of MUDs won't be moving too quickly in the near future...

[kjb434]

I work for an engineering firm as a Hydraulic and Hydrology engineer. I perform flood and drainage studies for many developments and even the older neighborhoods like the heights. I work with our land development engineers and public works engineers. I've learn a lot about the working of the bureacracy from work and from personal interest.

Developers are a big client base. Our job is to ensure that their projects are designed correctly in adherence to the standards and regulations and also do not cause adverse impacts to other communities and environments.

Despite what many people believe, developers just don't do what they want. The majority of what they do is guided by rules. The engineer has a vested interest in doing what is right since he can lose his liscence for irresponsible work. This doesn't mean there aren't some careless engineers out there. We have run into a few and had to take over projects they've screwed up. The Texas Board of Proffesional Engineers is responsible for complaints against engineers and the removal of their liscense in Texas.

[beetlemania]

Cool. I'm also an engineer, have done both land development and some public works type work. Took the PE exam on April 15th, so I know all about the ethical and legal obligations of PEs.

True, the developers must conform to the rules, but they also have traditionally had a rather big hand in writing those rules. Does seem to be changing recently, though, particularly after TS Allison. That was a wake-up call. HCFCD is sharpening its teeth now, and I'm sure it's keeping you busy...

[kjb434]

Yeah, I'm getting to know those guys down at flood control a lot better.

Also remember, the developers influence on the rules also had to go through the HEC (Houston Engineering Council). This council is a good mix of positions and look at how the community is affected and also making it easier for the developer to develop, but in a control and responsible atmosphere.