Liberal, Conservative, Urban, Rural

[RedScare]

So, 2 of the 80 farms that had to sell are your neighbors. That doesn't justify getting rid of the law. Additionally, with the exemptions, the average tax is just 14%. That your neighbors chose to sell 100% of the farm, rather than just 14% of it, suggests to me that the children are not as wedded to the idea of farming as you claim. Sounds to me like they wanted out, and the death of their father gave them the excuse to sell. The simple fact is that the uber wealthy have been using poor farmers as the sympathetic face of the estate tax, but the facts do not back it up. The public just wouldn't care if a weekend rancher like yourself had to work a little harder at your real job to pay the taxes on your hobby. But, not to worry. Few people actually take the time to look for the truth in these debates. Your secret is safe with me.

[IronTiger]

On social issues such as civil rights and stuff like that, urban areas are more liberal b/c urban areas are more diverse. This allows people to be exposed to different cultures, lifestyles, ethnicities, etc. People in rural areas are generally more sheltered, close-minded, etc.

Obviously you didn't pay attention to the "no mean or stupid answers" part.

Come on. Play nice.

[Marksmu]

So, 2 of the 80 farms that had to sell are your neighbors. That doesn't justify getting rid of the law. Additionally, with the exemptions, the average tax is just 14%. That your neighbors chose to sell 100% of the farm, rather than just 14% of it, suggests to me that the children are not as wedded to the idea of farming as you claim. Sounds to me like they wanted out, and the death of their father gave them the excuse to sell. The simple fact is that the uber wealthy have been using poor farmers as the sympathetic face of the estate tax, but the facts do not back it up. The public just wouldn't care if a weekend rancher like yourself had to work a little harder at your real job to pay the taxes on your hobby. But, not to worry. Few people actually take the time to look for the truth in these debates. Your secret is safe with me.

Your looking at just numbers, and not realities....What 14% do you sell? Do you sell the least productive 14% - there is no buyer for it, at least not one who will pay the amount you need to cover the taxes - does it have road access? many farms have already sold off much if not all of the frontage to smaller ranchettes, or just rural weekend homes, are you giving them an easement across your property to get to their piece? What about your hunting leases you signed a few years ago? How bout minerals and water rights...your analysis misses many rural realities. Was there a way to sell just enough to keep going? Probably - but it involves so much work - new surveys, new fences, new everything - its often a huge ordeal, that they end up deeming just not being worth the time. Not to mention many become just completely disenfranchised with the hassle of having to do so many things just to continue doing what was being done before. They feel like all the hard work was done by their family in the past and for what? So the government can tax it away on top of what they paid while they were alive....

While its true many people run hobby farms, as a way to pay property taxes, the estate taxes effect those who do it for a living as well as those who run it as a weekend getaway. Farming & Ranching are extremely capital intensive - go look at the price of a 300hp tractor, or a 25' disc, no till drill, or air drill - these things will cost you well over $500,000 just to get your first crop in the ground. Even then your going to have to pay someone else to harvest it, as a combine, is going to run well into $400,000 just to get started...your at nearly $1,000,000 in equipment that is necessary to just put a crop in the ground, and harvest it...that doesnt even begin to include other items such as seed costs, fertilizer and fuel - which are substantial as well.

If you think there are not alot of people who are overwhelmed by dealing with these costs, as well as having to pay the cost of the land upon a family members death your crazy. A working farm is an extremely expensive place, and more people than you think fall directly into the effected categorys once the assets of the farm have been added up.

And just in my defense; though I may be a "weekend rancher" I weekend ranch like you practice law - I just have to work alot fewer hours to be profitable. It may be a hobby now - but many ranches start as hobbies, until they have grown large enough to support the owners lifestyle. I'm not there yet, but the good thing about ranching, is your income producing base nearly doubles every year up to your lands carrying capacity. My $30,000 investment 2 years ago will be a couple hundred thousand in 6 more years...its the beautiful part of exponential growth. Try finding any other "hobby" with that type of return.

[RedScare]

And just in my defense; though I may be a "weekend rancher" I weekend ranch like you practice law - I just have to work alot fewer hours to be profitable. It may be a hobby now - but many ranches start as hobbies, until they have grown large enough to support the owners lifestyle. I'm not there yet, but the good thing about ranching, is your income producing base nearly doubles every year up to your lands carrying capacity. My $30,000 investment 2 years ago will be a couple hundred thousand in 6 more years...its the beautiful part of exponential growth. Try finding any other "hobby" with that type of return.

Oh, so this is a money grab? Then, why are you spending so much time playing the sympathy card telling us how poor ranchers are?

BTW, I can assure you that you do not ranch the way I practice law. Law is not a hobby to me, and the only time I play weekend lawyer is when I get paid overtime.

[Porchman]

These things happen - and for your information my facts came from the usda (http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/WellBeing/FederalTaxes.htm)

...which is where I got the 1% statistic which responded to your connvenient ignorance of the 2009 freeze legislation pending as:

a. you kept posting 2011 suppositions based on the 2001 law

b. your posts that there is a wide degree of farms succombing to estate tax

Context, boy!

I think there are several reasons why Obama carried urban over rural. First, rural living folks tend to be more independent...they favor less intervention in their daily lives not more, less rules, less government intrusion...they tend to do things for themselves and not wait for the government or someone else to do it. Urban living people dont even know what independent life is...they have grown up with more rules than almost any rural dweller could handle..Urban areas, have noise restrictions, parking restrictions, deed restrictions,curfews, you name it....everything is restricted in the urban areas to make it more comfortable for the greater number of people. The Democratic party leans heavily toward more restrictions and doing everything for the person...Democrats want more intervention, more rules, less rights...I think this is a huge reason rural leans republican.

The other way to look at it, is that liberals are better at managing cooperative efforts. I look at the divisiveness exercised by the Bush admisnistration, by Perry and Craddick in Austin, by Jared Woodfill and the Harris County GOP who have gone so far to censure their own for making decisions independent from their platform. Oh, and to truly demonstrate the inability to get along with people...

I get out every weekend and head to the country - its much nicer away from neighbors

That sums up the question posed in this thread. Clearly, you agree.

[KinkaidAlum]

Despite the belief of a good number of republican fratboys to the contrary, supervising Mexicans who cut brush on one's deer lease is not, technically, 'ranching'. Actually not even close, but why deny them their fun, eh?

Too funny... and so damn true.

There are a lot of wealthy Texans who stick a few cows on their weekend hill country properties and then claim a ranch exemption.

[IronTiger]

That sums up the question posed in this thread. Clearly, you agree.

The question was why urban people tend to go liberal and rural conservative. And then the topic shifted to ranching.

[Porchman]

The question was why urban people tend to go liberal and rural conservative. And then the topic shifted to ranching.

You are correct. We spent way too much of this thread discussing IRC 2032a and other farm/ranch related issues. That's why I posted...

I get out every weekend and head to the country - its much nicer away from neighbors

...to try to bring us to a landing.

[RedScare]

The question was why urban people tend to go liberal and rural conservative. And then the topic shifted to ranching.

I think that was marksmu's attempt to fake everyone into thinking all rural people are ranchers and farmers. Interestingly, most rural people that I've met are meth cooks or scrap metal collectors.

[Marksmu]

Oh, so this is a money grab? Then, why are you spending so much time playing the sympathy card telling us how poor ranchers are?

BTW, I can assure you that you do not ranch the way I practice law. Law is not a hobby to me, and the only time I play weekend lawyer is when I get paid overtime.

My straying of topic was based upon the fact that I believe country people have a different set of ideals & morals, that does not make them close minded...that they tend to vote against the democratic party because the D party is about more restrictions, and more government control. Rural people are more independent, favor lower taxes, and less government intervention.

And Red I can assure you that I do ranch in the exact same way you practice law. While I may enjoy doing it....when I am there, I do nothing but work from the second I wake up until the sun has almost set. I also would not call it a money grab - Its a business exactly like any other business, including a law firm, it takes time and work to make money, and it takes money to make money...While not everyone treats it that way, there are many that do.

And to KindaidAlum - you might want to look at the property tax laws - the legislature did away with the agricultural exemption for everyone whose primary source of income was not agriculture....you can now get an open space exemption, but its treatment is not nearly as favorable as a true agricultural exemption. To qualify for an ag exemption your primary source of income must be agriculture, land must have been in agricultural use for the last 3 years, and it must be run as a business for profit...Open space exemption reduces the value some, but not nearly as much as used to be available. This chage was passed to address the weekend rancher, who puts a few cows on his property but actually intends to use it as a hunting place, or vacation home. It does not stop the fratboy rancher/hunter from continuing but it does make them pay a bit more in taxes.

In respnose to Porchman - I like the city too - but I get it 6 days a week - its very theraputic, to enjoy nature, and be outside making a difference, as opposed to sitting in a hammock sipping cocktails....I relax by working, maybe you dont....I work behind a desk M-F, I work outside on Sat/Sun...its my relaxation, its how I wind down...it has nothing to do with being away from people, its being away from the city...I would not call that alienation. And until the law is in place changing the CURRENT LAW, the facts I stated remain true....Obama has said a lot of things, but he only does a fraction of what he says he is going to do. He has called for universal health care too, but I'll bet you that doesnt happen either. I would prefer not to bet my familys future on hope and change, but rather the current law as it stands. Hope and Change has been a total failure thus far.

RED - I can pretty much guarantee there are more methhead crack dealing / metal collectors in Houston than the country. Your ignorance on the subject is astounding. And yall call us non-democrats close minded...

[RedScare]

RED - I can pretty much guarantee there are more methhead crack dealing / metal collectors in Houston than the country. Your ignorance on the subject is astounding. And yall call us non-democrats close minded...

The fact that you think meth heads and crack dealers are the same thing speaks volumes. Let's face it, you have a romanticized notion of the country that does not exist. I understand that you are trying to make rural people and conservatives somehow "better" than liberals and city dwellers. You are not the first. I watched Sarah Palin use that line. But, just as Wasilla is beset with drug use and unwed teens, so is the rural lower 48. There may be a few ranchers in the country, just as there are a few CEOs in the city. But, the majority of the rural population is poor to middle class, and the closest they get to a ranch is shoveling sheet for some weekend rancher (why do I keep having GW Bush flashbacks). Not that there is anything wrong with shoveling sheet. It is simply that most rural people who vote Republican are doing so for vastly different reasons than you, and your attempts to paint all country people (or even yourself) as a bunch of modern day John Waynes is rather comical...and a whale of a stretch.

PS - I've spent a bunch of time in the real country dealing with their real life problems. I've probably sat on more rural recycled couches in air conditionless rural homes than you've ever seen. I've seen some of the "hobbies" that these people have. Rural America does not look like the idyllic picture that you paint.

[CDeb]

PS - I've spent a bunch of time in the real country dealing with their real life problems. I've probably sat on more rural recycled couches in air conditionless rural homes than you've ever seen. I've seen some of the "hobbies" that these people have. Rural America does not look like the idyllic picture that you paint.

Maybe your circumstances happen to bring you to those types of people, severely biasing your sample.

[RedScare]

Maybe your circumstances happen to bring you to those types of people, severely biasing your sample.

Absolutely. I am a criminal attorney. That is how I met these people. However, who will have a better view of life in rural America, the one whose occupation takes them into the homes of the rural residents, or the one who stays safely on his 'ranch' on Saturday and Sunday, occasionally hanging out at the feed store? Owning your 'ranch' may be nice. It may be relaxing. It may even be profitable. It is NOT representative of rural America.

[CDeb]

Absolutely. I am a criminal attorney. That is how I met these people. However, who will have a better view of life in rural America, the one whose occupation takes them into the homes of the rural residents, or the one who stays safely on his 'ranch' on Saturday and Sunday, occasionally hanging out at the feed store? Owning your 'ranch' may be nice. It may be relaxing. It may even be profitable. It is NOT representative of rural America.

My own experiences are somewhere in the middle. I know lots of rural folks. One is a rancher (really). Some live the hard life you describe. Most are normal folks just like you and me who got a map of Nowhere and decided to live smack dab in the middle of it.

[Marksmu]

The fact that you think meth heads and crack dealers are the same thing speaks volumes. Let's face it, you have a romanticized notion of the country that does not exist. I understand that you are trying to make rural people and conservatives somehow "better" than liberals and city dwellers. You are not the first. I watched Sarah Palin use that line. But, just as Wasilla is beset with drug use and unwed teens, so is the rural lower 48. There may be a few ranchers in the country, just as there are a few CEOs in the city. But, the majority of the rural population is poor to middle class, and the closest they get to a ranch is shoveling sheet for some weekend rancher (why do I keep having GW Bush flashbacks). Not that there is anything wrong with shoveling sheet. It is simply that most rural people who vote Republican are doing so for vastly different reasons than you, and your attempts to paint all country people (or even yourself) as a bunch of modern day John Waynes is rather comical...and a whale of a stretch.

PS - I've spent a bunch of time in the real country dealing with their real life problems. I've probably sat on more rural recycled couches in air conditionless rural homes than you've ever seen. I've seen some of the "hobbies" that these people have. Rural America does not look like the idyllic picture that you paint.

So then by your logic, rural America is made up of mostly poor to lower middle class, meth cooks, and scrap metal recyclers....I have always wondered where everyone who is not actively engaged in farming/ranching but lived in the country got their money...I always thought they worked other rural jobs, for construction companies, small merchants, small business owners, cities, and counties, but now I guess I know they are all just losers, who dont like being around liberals so they live off welfare, scrap metal, and meth. Im sure this realization this will come as a surprise to most of these people.

I guess everyone that I frequently run into at those fancy frat boy 2 pump gas stations, and mom & pop grocery stores are the exception to the norm, becuase they all have jobs, and farm/ranch...Im not sure what part of the "country" your going to, but once you cross the rio grande, your not in the US anymore...

[Marksmu]

Absolutely. I am a criminal attorney. That is how I met these people. However, who will have a better view of life in rural America, the one whose occupation takes them into the homes of the rural residents, or the one who stays safely on his 'ranch' on Saturday and Sunday, occasionally hanging out at the feed store? Owning your 'ranch' may be nice. It may be relaxing. It may even be profitable. It is NOT representative of rural America.

OH - and just one other thing, in case your wondering the depth of my involvement with rural life...the company I work for happens to have a manufacturing branch near our ranch....we employ 190 (6 engineers, 1 physicist, 15 or so in the office & the rest machinists, etc) people at that rural location in Schulenburg Tx, none of which are like you describe....I guess they are all exceptions as well....people like you describe exist for sure, but they are far from the majority of rural dwelling people.

[RedScare]

Rural Poverty In America

Rather than believe in romanticized visions of rural Texas, perpetuated by video of George Bush in pressed work shirt and jeans, I prefer reality. I grew up in western North Carolina, next door to Appalachia, where some of the most desparately poor rural residents live. I have seen the shanties in Mississippi, and the colonias in South Texas. I lived for a time in Arkansas, where the rusted out mobile homes actually had families living in them. I was a prosecutor in Fort Worth when rural North Texas was known as the 'Meth Capital of the World'. And, I have spent much time in Liberty, San Jacinto and other East Texas counties, where the poor are the virtual embodiment of recycling, though not for any romantic notion of saving the world, but merely to survive.

So, no, when I think of rural America, I do not think of SMU boys driving their big boy trucks to their hobby in the country. I think of the real rural America, with poverty rates 33% higher than in the cities, underfunded schools...if they haven't already dropped out to support the family, no health insurance, and low wage unskilled jobs working at feed lots, or running the 'ranch' for some weekend rancher...if they're lucky. When I drive into the country, I SEE the poor. I do not ignore them, just so that my romantic notion of the Marlboro Man may remain untarnished. Frankly, the rural poor in America are invisible. In the inner cities, there are activists and politicians who advocate for the poor, if for no other reason than that they represent votes. The rural poor have no advocates. Their votes are stolen by politicians who appeal to their morals and religion, but who then go to Congress and brag of the 'rugged individualists' in rural America, a euphemism used to deny them the services that the inner city poor receive.

So, I suppose to paraphrase your line, "I'm not sure where your 'ranch' is, but it sure must not be in the US.

[IronTiger]

Actually, the Appalachia was one of the notoriously poor parts of America during the latter 20th century. Appalachia is generally the exception, not the rule.

[Marksmu]

Rural Poverty In America

Rather than believe in romanticized visions of rural Texas, perpetuated by video of George Bush in pressed work shirt and jeans, I prefer reality. I grew up in western North Carolina, next door to Appalachia, where some of the most desparately poor rural residents live. I have seen the shanties in Mississippi, and the colonias in South Texas. I lived for a time in Arkansas, where the rusted out mobile homes actually had families living in them. I was a prosecutor in Fort Worth when rural North Texas was known as the 'Meth Capital of the World'. And, I have spent much time in Liberty, San Jacinto and other East Texas counties, where the poor are the virtual embodiment of recycling, though not for any romantic notion of saving the world, but merely to survive.

So, no, when I think of rural America, I do not think of SMU boys driving their big boy trucks to their hobby in the country. I think of the real rural America, with poverty rates 33% higher than in the cities, underfunded schools...if they haven't already dropped out to support the family, no health insurance, and low wage unskilled jobs working at feed lots, or running the 'ranch' for some weekend rancher...if they're lucky. When I drive into the country, I SEE the poor. I do not ignore them, just so that my romantic notion of the Marlboro Man may remain untarnished. Frankly, the rural poor in America are invisible. In the inner cities, there are activists and politicians who advocate for the poor, if for no other reason than that they represent votes. The rural poor have no advocates. Their votes are stolen by politicians who appeal to their morals and religion, but who then go to Congress and brag of the 'rugged individualists' in rural America, a euphemism used to deny them the services that the inner city poor receive.

So, I suppose to paraphrase your line, "I'm not sure where your 'ranch' is, but it sure must not be in the US.

Your own document (outdated and incorrect) pointed out poverty at 20% - a mere 5% higher than the urban poverty rate. Your statements tend to make it look as if everyone in the country is a meth cooking, poor metal recyler, when even your own document does not support your statement. Out of all of rural America, 80% are NOT in poverty...You would have me believe, which I dont, that of the 20% in poverty all are unwed mothers, meth cooks, and scrimp by recycling cars and tin cans...Your argument does not pass muster with even your own document, let alone the picture that anyone in the US can get by just driving through the countryside.

I have spent an enormous amount of time in Schulenburg, and Anahuac both rural - and have traveled extensively across the coastal areas of Texas...there are many poor people in all the areas I have been, but there are also MORE people who are not poor in those areas. I do not turn a blind eye to it, I see it - but there are still many more people who are not poor. Here in Texas at least we have much less rural poverty, b/c the majority of our crops can be harvested by machine, and do not require a significant number of low income migratory ag labor.

Most people who reside rurally have a job in, construction, manufacturing, government, or otherwise, and also have cows or crops on the side. Rural income is depressed because many of the rural people put the money back into their farm/ranch operation instead of paying taxes on it. I know ALL of the people that I know in the rural areas will buy a new tractor and expense it, before they pay it to uncle Sam in Taxes and increase their tax brackets....that is part of the reason rural income is much lower.

Here is the most recent data from the USDA concerning poverty/education/Employment

(http://www.ers.usda.gov/StateFacts/US.htm)

Poverty:

It shows the poverty rate in Rural America is 15.8% as opposed to Urban rate of 12.4% - a big change from your source.

Education:

23.5% of Rural do not complete Highschool, compared to 18.8% in Urban areas

25.5% complete some college ruraly, compared to 27.8% in Urban areas

and 15.1% graduate from college in rural areas, compared to 26.4% in urban.

Employment

Rural unemployment is at 5.6% and Urban is at 5.8% - not much difference

Income:

The only real large difference with Rural income at $33,793 , as oposed to Urban income at $51,551. At first glance this seems like a big difference, but when you factor in the cost of living and the fact that many urban people buy equipment/improvements for the express purpose of not paying more taxes, this difference is actually not so large.

I am truly sorry that your view of the world is so negative, everyone in the rural American is a poor meth cook metal recycler, nobody can afford healthcare, the ice caps are melting, guns are killing people instead of people killing people... but if you turn off the TV and get out in the REAL world (the one outside the criminal courthouse) the reality it is that everything is actually fine. The government wants you to be afraid so that under the guise of protection they can take what they want from you, as you happily smile and feel safe, while you become neither happier, nor safer. You are their dream citizen - not only do you buy into it all, but you propogate their propoganda.

Appropriate Quotes by Benjamin Franklin...

"Those who will give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

"I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it."

[RedScare]

I am truly sorry that your view of the world is so negative, everyone in the rural American is a poor meth cook metal recycler, nobody can afford healthcare, the ice caps are melting, guns are killing people instead of people killing people... but if you turn off the TV and get out in the REAL world (the one outside the criminal courthouse) the reality it is that everything is actually fine. The government wants you to be afraid so that under the guise of protection they can take what they want from you, as you happily smile and feel safe, while you become neither happier, nor safer. You are their dream citizen - not only do you buy into it all, but you propogate their propoganda.

This cracks me up. Your hobby 'ranch' in the hill country is the REAL world, but the criminal courthouse is make believe. It is exactly this ability to wear blinders while looking at the world that has put your favorite political party in the doghouse. This, and your inability to perform simple math (20% IS 33% larger than 15%), makes me done with this exercise. I never expected to get you to look around your world and see that it is not how you claim it to be. I only intended to point out some of the faulty premises you use, and that is done.

I do have to admit, though, if all it takes to be a rancher is $30,000 and a couple of half days work on the weekend, I don't know why everyone doesn't have one. Sounds like pretty easy work to me. Given this knowledge, I certainly will never sympathize with the ranchers who claim life is so tough out there.

[Marksmu]

This cracks me up. Your hobby 'ranch' in the hill country is the REAL world, but the criminal courthouse is make believe. It is exactly this ability to wear blinders while looking at the world that has put your favorite political party in the doghouse. This, and your inability to perform simple math (20% IS 33% larger than 15%), makes me done with this exercise. I never expected to get you to look around your world and see that it is not how you claim it to be. I only intended to point out some of the faulty premises you use, and that is done.

I do have to admit, though, if all it takes to be a rancher is $30,000 and a couple of half days work on the weekend, I don't know why everyone doesn't have one. Sounds like pretty easy work to me. Given this knowledge, I certainly will never sympathize with the ranchers who claim life is so tough out there.

My point math wise was that rural poverty is 15.8% not 20% as your source claimed...if you bothered even opening the cite that I pointed you to, you would have seen that...though I did copy it for you in case you were not going to put in that much effort.

Furthermore my point of the whole exercise was to open your eyes, that everyone in the country is not some slack jawed drug addict cooking up meth and recycling beer cans for drug money...it was to show you that rural America votes Republican b/c they are more independent than urban citizens, they are not as reliant upon the government to solve all their problems for them. A perfect is example is Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans remained a sess pool, while the rural countryside, equally damaged, immediately began to rebuild without waiting for someone else to fix it for them But, alas, all you see is the idiots out there committing crimes, as opposed to the good country people who live under the radar. Your negative blinders are much larger than my positive glasses, as I see the poor, and I recognize their existence. I also see the statistics, and the statiscs are CLEAR that 84.2% of rural dwellers (I believe even Democrats call that a supermajority) are not poor, but are just good honest people who prefer to live away from the urban sprawl.

I would even go so far as to say that MORE people in the country live their lives without ever needing a criminal lawyer. So while you may have seen alot of criminal country folk, your only seeing one SMALL slice of the pie.

The only reason the democrats were able to gain power, is because of the unanimous hatred of George Bush; coupled with smooth talking un-obtainable promises. Each day as Obama promises new things for everyone, with no way to pay for it, he is further revealed as the joke he is. A smooth talking car salesman. That is why his approval rates remain high despite the nearly unanimous disapproval of almost all his policies.

Finally to address your attempted cheap shot - at a $30,000 investment your only getting animals and necessary equipment, even then its a losing venture for years 1,2, and 3....at year 4, your break even, and from then on your in the green, assuming you dont start buyign things to make the heavy lifting easier...its why Farmers & Ranchers are seldom profitable...years 1-3 put them so deeply in debt that if they have no other off farm job they can not recover....If you take the land costs into consideration your not profitable for years 1-9....you have to treat the land as an investment independent of the livestock....its often thought of as the retirement account for many people....when they are too old to work it ,they sell it to their children for monthly payments.

But hey, if you think its all half days, and hill country fun, give it a go. Having worked as an engineer, a lawyer, and a rancher - I will say they are all different...engineering requires the most intelligence, law requires the most time, and ranching requires the most flat out hard manual labor type work. But that is just how I am wired I enjoy the manual labor...my wife, also an engineer and a lawyer, would tell you that law is harder, and engineering is easier, and she wont touch the manual labor....but each person is very different.

[RedScare]

You've now reversed nearly all of your previous positions on wealthy ranchers.

My work here is done.

[Marksmu]

You've now reversed nearly all of your previous positions on wealthy ranchers.

My work here is done.

I see no reversal. My points were farms are asset rich, cash poor, that stands - they remain poor as long long land is factored in....I treat the land as an investment, and do not factor it into my costs of ranching...except of course during tax time - no shift in stand there. Rural people are more indpendent, check, no shift in stance there. Not meth heads, check, no shift in stance. Estate tax effects large high value farms/ranches, check - does that make them rich? No - b/c most continue to expand all the way up until they get ready for retire...

I dont see any reversals, but if your work is done, its done.

But feel free to point out my reversals...