Public Vs. Private Roads

[houstongirl]

I am looking to confirm whether roads in an undeveloped subdivision belong to the county or are still private property held by the builder. Where do I go to find this info? I've been checking out every county agency website I can find, but I'm lost.

Typically, when are the roads deeded over to the county? What agency keeps track of this?

[Original Timmy Chan's]

I am looking to confirm whether roads in an undeveloped subdivision belong to the county or are still private property held by the builder. Where do I go to find this info? I've been checking out every county agency website I can find, but I'm lost.

Typically, when are the roads deeded over to the county? What agency keeps track of this?

If the road right-of-way is dedicated to the public, that's a good indication that it's public. I don't think it's a guarantee that the roads are accepted by the County for maintenance, but it would be an indication. You could find that on the recorded plat of the subdivision...if the subdivision was legally subdivided.

In Harris County, for roads to be accepted for County maintenance, the roads have to be designed and built in accordance with County standards, pass an initial post-construction inspection, and then pass a one-year inspection before they are eligible to be accepted for maintenance (through action by the County Commissioners Court).

If you're talking about a subdivision in Harris County where roads are still under construction, then they cannot have been accepted for maintenance by the County.

This Harris County Road Log might be a good start, but this warns that roads listed here are not necessarily accepted for maintenance: http://hcedweb2.eng.hctx.net/rl_web/stats/RL_search.jsp

[TheNiche]

I am looking to confirm whether roads in an undeveloped subdivision belong to the county or are still private property held by the builder. Where do I go to find this info? I've been checking out every county agency website I can find, but I'm lost.

Typically, when are the roads deeded over to the county? What agency keeps track of this?

The developer files a plat with the county which delineates where lots, roads, and common areas will be. The developer retains ownership of the roads until they are built, and then gives them to the county. The county will only refuse to take ownership of the roads if the subdivision in question has access gates at the entrance or is otherwise not accessible to the general public.

For subdivisions that have already been developed, you can look up the plat maps available on hcad.org for Harris County. Other counties may or may not have that feature on their websites.

EDIT: OTC beat me to the punch.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

The county will only refuse to take ownership of the roads if the subdivision in question has access gates at the entrance or is otherwise not accessible to the general public.

Not entirely true...the County can refuse to accept roads for many, many, many reasons...like low subgrade densities, concrete that doesn't meet strength requirements, birdbaths (street doesn't completely drain), broken curbs, broken sidewalks, etc., etc., etc.

I think what you're trying to say is that a road that's not accessible to the general public is automatically ineligible. But there are many other standards that have to be met for roads to be eligible for County acceptance, like general planning requirements - block length, centerline radii, minimum points of access, etc., in addition to specific engineering design and field construction and construction materials testing requirements.

[TheNiche]

Not entirely true...the County can refuse to accept roads for many, many, many reasons...like low subgrade densities, concrete that doesn't meet strength requirements, birdbaths (street doesn't completely drain), broken curbs, broken sidewalks, etc., etc., etc.

I think what you're trying to say is that a road that's not accessible to the general public is automatically ineligible. But there are many other standards that have to be met for roads to be eligible for County acceptance, like general planning requirements - block length, centerline radii, minimum points of access, etc., in addition to specific engineering design and field construction and construction materials testing requirements.

How often does that happen, though?

Maybe its just that I don't typically interact with grossly incompetent developers or grossly incompetent land planners. Aside from the access control issue, I can't imagine why a developer would ever intentionally build roads that could not be given to the county if the alternative is that the property taxes on them end up getting paid by the HOA. That very directly affects the affordability of that subdivision relative to comparable other subdivisions with public roads, and that ultimately impacts home prices and lot prices.

[RedScare]

In those cases where the subdivision is intended to remain private, the roads might not adhere strictly to county guidelines.

[houstongirl]

This Harris County Road Log might be a good start, but this warns that roads listed here are not necessarily accepted for maintenance: http://hcedweb2.eng.hctx.net/rl_web/stats/RL_search.jsp

I checked this log, and none of the street names in question are listed. Is it a fair assumption that these roads have not been handed over to the county yet?

I've checked HCAD, but can't really determine what's going on. If you look at this map: http://www.hcad.org/iMaps/Tiles/Color/4967A5.pdf, the roads in question are those south and southeast of the new Louetta Water Plant that is currently being built (Keystone Ridge, Monarch Mist, Silverston, Powder Springs, and Wolf Ridge). While the lots are shown on the map, only about 10 were ever built upon. The few that do have a structure on them were abandonded the week before Hurricane Ike.

Two residents claim they've contacted the county, the constable, and the builder (who is now in bankruptcy) and the roads are still private property. One claims she called and the roads are indeed public. This has become a HUGE debate, and I've got to find the correct answer.

[TheNiche]

I've checked HCAD, but can't really determine what's going on. If you look at this map: http://www.hcad.org/iMaps/Tiles/Color/4967A5.pdf, the roads in question are those south and southeast of the new Louetta Water Plant that is currently being built (Keystone Ridge, Monarch Mist, Silverston, Powder Springs, and Wolf Ridge).

Check HCAD maps 4967A6 and 4967A10, adjacent to the one you linked to. The streets connect to Vantage Reserve Parkway seamlessly, which connects to Louetta seamlessly. Private roads are delineated as a parcel of land and have a tax identification number associated with them. This isn't proof positive as to who owns them at this very moment, by any means, but it is evidence.

[houstongirl]

Check HCAD maps 4967A6 and 4967A10, adjacent to the one you linked to. The streets connect to Vantage Reserve Parkway seamlessly, which connects to Louetta seamlessly. Private roads are delineated as a parcel of land and have a tax identification number associated with them. This isn't proof positive as to who owns them at this very moment, by any means, but it is evidence.

Bear with me, as my brain is fried after all the info I've looked over the past 24 hours...

I see the land by Keystone Ridge is listed as "Pure Account." This block of road, as well as the western half of Monarch Mist is largely what is in question here. From this map, does it mean these are public streets?

I found the platting info, where it was submitted to the county, but I cannot find any record of the inspection/acceptance of the roads. In fact, I see where Vintage Royale Sec. 1 stopped after the Record Drawing Inspection, but the remaining steps were not completed. Vintage Royale Sec. 2 has not completed any of the inspection requirements.

There has been quite a bit of criminal and suspicious activity on these empty roads and in vacant homes, including theft, drug use, vandalism, underage drinking, and street racing. Just a few weeks ago, the fire department had to come out for a bonfire some kids had set with scrap lumber on the open lots.

The residents of that neighborhood have blocked off this chunk of road with a barricade (which is fine with me), but is it legal?

[TheNiche]

Bear with me, as my brain is fried after all the info I've looked over the past 24 hours...

I see the land by Keystone Ridge is listed as "Pure Account." This block of road, as well as the western half of Monarch Mist is largely what is in question here. From this map, does it mean these are public streets?

I found the platting info, where it was submitted to the county, but I cannot find any record of the inspection/acceptance of the roads. In fact, I see where Vintage Royale Sec. 1 stopped after the Record Drawing Inspection, but the remaining steps were not completed. Vintage Royale Sec. 2 has not completed any of the inspection requirements.

The HCAD account for area listed as Pure Account measures 5.2189 acres, the very same as the account listed for the same parcel of land. One account cites the developer as the owner, the other cites a home builder as the owner. I'm not sure what's going on with that parcel except to say that it would've been replatted in the future with new streets and new lots to accommodate the rest of the subdivision. But I can tell you that it does not include the land under Keystone Ridge or Monarch Mist.

I didn't bother to notice earlier that you appear to have alleyways, but those are definitely privately-owned.

I also didn't notice until now that the developer is V&W Partners, a partnership between Mischer and Kickerillo. These guys have some staying power, so I'd doubt that it is them that went under. They platted the subdivision, scraped the earth, laid the utilities, built the streets, and sold the lots. Just glancing at the tax rolls, it looks like Pasquinelli Portrait Homes did a really irresponsible thing by purchasing a whole subdivision full of lots at once, and they--merely the home builder--are now bankrupt. This could create a complicated issue depending on what were the precise agreements between the developer and the builder, and whether V&W is still obligated to honor those agreements.

There has been quite a bit of criminal and suspicious activity on these empty roads and in vacant homes, including theft, drug use, vandalism, underage drinking, and street racing. Just a few weeks ago, the fire department had to come out for a bonfire some kids had set with scrap lumber on the open lots.

The residents of that neighborhood have blocked off this chunk of road with a barricade (which is fine with me), but is it legal?

Whether these streets are technically still considered public or private, if they were developed with the intent to be used by emergency vehicles then the barricades may constitute a hazard to public safety. But I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not sure what kind of legal risk those homeowners are exposing themselves to.

[houstongirl]

Whether these streets are technically still considered public or private, if they were developed with the intent to be used by emergency vehicles then the barricades may constitute a hazard to public safety. But I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not sure what kind of legal risk those homeowners are exposing themselves to.

A resident of Vintage Royale did speak to the fire department about this issue, and the way the subdivisions are set up in relation to the nearest fire stations, they said they would never use these roads to get to a fire. If there were a fire in Majestic Oaks, they would use Old Louetta to enter the neighborhood. If it were in Vintage Royale, they'd come through their main entrance. In fact, he recommended installing a gate across the roads to close them off, and locking it with a county lock. This way, emergency vehicles could get through, should there ever be a reason to.

A resident of Majestic Oaks called the constable to bring up this point, and they basically blew her off, citing this was not an issue.

As far as liabilities go, I believe the homeowners of Vintage Royale are most concerned, at this point, with someone entering the collapsing buildings, getting hurt, and suing their HOA for it. The builders are gone, and their management company is trying to push them off on someone else, so sadly they have nobody to speak up for them. I feel bad for the people who bought in that neighborhood. Some have tried selling their homes, but nobody will buy them due to the terrible state of their subdivision.

[TheNiche]

A resident of Vintage Royale did speak to the fire department about this issue, and the way the subdivisions are set up in relation to the nearest fire stations, they said they would never use these roads to get to a fire. If there were a fire in Majestic Oaks, they would use Old Louetta to enter the neighborhood. If it were in Vintage Royale, they'd come through their main entrance. In fact, he recommended installing a gate across the roads to close them off, and locking it with a county lock. This way, emergency vehicles could get through, should there ever be a reason to.

A resident of Majestic Oaks called the constable to bring up this point, and they basically blew her off, citing this was not an issue.

As far as liabilities go, I believe the homeowners of Vintage Royale are most concerned, at this point, with someone entering the collapsing buildings, getting hurt, and suing their HOA for it. The builders are gone, and their management company is trying to push them off on someone else, so sadly they have nobody to speak up for them. I feel bad for the people who bought in that neighborhood. Some have tried selling their homes, but nobody will buy them due to the terrible state of their subdivision.

That's probably best, especially if the gate can be made to connect to the fence line of homes in Majestic Oaks, so that it's more than just a barricade, but is an impediment to pedestrian flow.

Having said that, do not expect that law enforcement or the fire department will be able to give you legally-sound advice. They're good for practical advice, but if something does go wrong and your subdivision is even peripherally involved in the barricading of a public street without that having been in some way formally approved by the County, that may in some way expose you to a lawsuit (even if it turns out to be frivolous). I'm not sure who to go to in government to get that cleared, but you might try contacting the developer, V&W Partners, and seeing if they can give you help or guidance. It is in their best interests to keep Vintage Royale clean and safe, after all. They wouldn't want negative public perceptions of this neighborhood spilling over into other parts of the Vintage development. ...and they definitely wouldn't like it if there got to be any media attention on the issue.

[IronTiger]

Hmm...some giveaways of a private road include "flipped colors" on the sign (in CSTX, normal road signs have white-on-green, private roads are green-and-white), barricades, and gates. Other than that, feel free to drive through!

[houstongirl]

That's probably best, especially if the gate can be made to connect to the fence line of homes in Majestic Oaks, so that it's more than just a barricade, but is an impediment to pedestrian flow.

This is a great idea, and what the MOHOA seems to be leaning toward.... especially to prevent extra pedestrian traffic.

Having said that, do not expect that law enforcement or the fire department will be able to give you legally-sound advice.

The Vintage Royale HOA called both the builder and developer, from my understanding, and both told her the roads were not yet county roads, and could be blocked off at the residents' discretion. They even gave her a real barricade and permission to use scrap lumber from the homes (all of which have now been ripped to shreds by my neighbor's kids).

[TheNiche]

The Vintage Royale HOA called both the builder and developer, from my understanding, and both told her the roads were not yet county roads, and could be blocked off at the residents' discretion.

That sounds plausible. Just figure out from them when the roads are undergoing review and testing to become county roads, and take the appropriate steps when the time comes to make sure everything is still legit.

[houstongirl]

I just heard back from the Permits Division, and it turns out these streets are not yet accepted by the county. Now I know the answer, from an official source, and that argument is over.

In a related question, what can be done about abandoned, collapsing homes, which pose an imminent threat to others and are in currently in bankruptcy? Yeah, I know, it's a mess....

[sevfiv]

In a related question, what can be done about abandoned, collapsing homes, which pose an imminent threat to others and are in currently in bankruptcy? Yeah, I know, it's a mess....

A quick and easy way is to call 311 or report it on the online form:

https://webintake.houstontx.gov/web_intake/Controller

Not sure of the efficacy, but it's something. The web intake is also anonymous now, so maybe if you call you have a better chance of tracking your complaint.

[TheNiche]

A quick and easy way is to call 311 or report it on the online form:

https://webintake.houstontx.gov/web_intake/Controller

Not sure of the efficacy, but it's something. The web intake is also anonymous now, so maybe if you call you have a better chance of tracking your complaint.

They aren't in the City of Houston.

[sevfiv]

^oops, sorry. I guess I don't get out much

[houstongirl]

I spoke with the Infrastructure Department yesterday, and they're reviewing the barricade request. They also forwarded on the details of the buildings to the Public Health Department. Hopefully the ball is now rolling...