Sugar Land And The Conventional Wisdom

[cottonmather0]

Mrs Cottonmather0 and I are moving down there as soon as we can sell our house here in Timbergrove.

Lots of personal reasons for doing so, but the main one being that she works at Schlumberger down there and has no need to commute 35 minutes each way everyday, especially when I run my business from home and neither one of us needs to be near downtown anymore. Not to mention that we have a second child on the way and we could use more space and are thinking about better schools than the HISD ones we're zoned to right now (Sinclair... BLACK MS... Waltrip).

Anyway... The conventional wisdom we are running into from most people - including our realtor - is that for our price range (up to $500k) we should not be looking at any area other than First Colony - that the schools are the best and that it's the most desirable area to live in. Nonetheless, from what I can glean from the houses I have seen down there, anything we can afford is going to be at least 15-20 years old and in need of updating, and, aside from being close to the mall, the location is TERRIBLE for getting out quickly, with winding roads and cul-de-sacs and layers upon layers of subdivisions. For my wife working at Schlumberger, which is roughly at 90 and 59, First Colony seems to be one of the worst possible places for us to buy if we're really worried about location.

So, for other areas:

We thought about Sugar Creek for a while, but most of the houses in there are pretty old and need updating, and my wife is rather concerned about the quality of the areas to the south and east (along Dulles Blvd) and that it's beginning to encroach into Sugar Creek proper.

We also really like Greatwood a lot, especially for the value of the some of the newer homes right now, but it's just so far away - and also pretty sprawling - and it's not in FBISD.

I personally like Telfair a lot, especially considering the value that can be had for newer construction these days. There are a lot of foreclosures and excess builder inventory right now, but if we're going to live there for more than 5-7 years, at least, I don't see how that can be a problem for us. Similarly, as far as my wife's commute, the location is just about perfect, especially considering that they'll soon be opening the entrance onto Highway 6 soon. Not to mention easy access to 59, too, compared to First Colony and Greatwood. Also, the existing elementary and middle schools are both rated exceptional and that they'll have the new high school built long before my son is old enough to attend.

Problem is, our realtor has just about convinced my wife that buying in Telfair is a bad decision because of the quality of buyers it will be attracting given the market right now (no matter where we look, my wife is very concerned about, ahem, demographics, much moreso than I am) and the risks that sometimes come from brand new construction. I just don't see how such a great location can be a bad decision.

And before anyone asks, neither one of us care much for New Territory or any of the older neighborhoods along 90 towards the Sugar Mill, fwiw.

So, I guess my question is this, is First Colony REALLY worth the money and the hassle? I am not at all denying its advantages benefits - I just don't see how buying an older house back in the maze that's 20 minutes from the freeway (especially as you move south along Elkins) is really worth the premium that other people seem to think it is, especially considering what we could get for less money in either Greatwood or Telfair along with a better location as near as I can tell.

Any perspective is appreciated.

[Jeebus]

Mrs Cottonmather0 and I are moving down there as soon as we can sell our house here in Timbergrove.

Lots of personal reasons for doing so, but the main one being that she works at Schlumberger down there and has no need to commute 35 minutes each way everyday, especially when I run my business from home and neither one of us needs to be near downtown anymore. Not to mention that we have a second child on the way and we could use more space and are thinking about better schools than the HISD ones we're zoned to right now (Sinclair... BLACK MS... Waltrip).

Anyway... The conventional wisdom we are running into from most people - including our realtor - is that for our price range (up to $500k) we should not be looking at any area other than First Colony - that the schools are the best and that it's the most desirable area to live in. Nonetheless, from what I can glean from the houses I have seen down there, anything we can afford is going to be at least 15-20 years old and in need of updating, and, aside from being close to the mall, the location is TERRIBLE for getting out quickly, with winding roads and cul-de-sacs and layers upon layers of subdivisions. For my wife working at Schlumberger, which is roughly at 90 and 59, First Colony seems to be one of the worst possible places for us to buy if we're really worried about location.

So, I guess my question is this, is First Colony REALLY worth the money and the hassle? I am not at all denying its advantages benefits - I just don't see how buying an older house back in the maze that's 20 minutes from the freeway (especially as you move south along Elkins) is really worth the premium that other people seem to think it is, especially considering what we could get for less money in either Greatwood or Telfair along with a better location as near as I can tell.

Any perspective is appreciated.

YES!!!! This is what you need to be looking for. It's a 4/2/2 detached for only $276k. From here you are walking distance from the elementary school and biking distance to the Town Center. The middle school is the furthest away but the high school, Clements, which is easily the best around is with in walking/biking distance depending on the occasion. You're also just a street away from Sweetwater Boulevard which will throw you up on 59. You can take that up to Sugarcreek, make a left at the light which will turn into Dairy Ashford and you're right there at 90 by Schlumberger. You'll have the freedom to bypass Highway 6 anytime you want.

To me this is the perfect location if you're going to live in Sugar Land. You're near everything from schools to shopping, prices are down right now, and the homes are new enough that only minor cosmetic upgrades should be needed to get you set.

If you have a $500k budget and can snag one in this area for under $400k, you should be able to update it for about $30k and pocket the rest.

Good luck, and use the map feature on HAR to help!

[ProHouston]

I'm not sure why you think being is First Colony is 20 minutes from the freeway. This is no where near accurate. First Colony is not The Woodlands, it ends before Murphy Road. There are many ways in and out of First Colony and is a beautiful, neighborly area. It's a master planned community and the traffic proves it. Yes there are a lot of cars moving around but it typically only takes 5 minutes from Hwy 6 and Dulles to Hwy 6 and Hwy 59. I really think you'd like the are and the mature trees are an advantage over Telfair.

I'd look at First Colony again and allow for the $20-$40k of upgrades that you'll surely want to put into a 2 yr old home. At least that way, the wife can pick out exactly what she wants.

[UrbaNerd]

Try looking at Crescents On The Green. Many of the patio homes there can be had for around 400k or less. There are some sections that are less than 10 yrs old, and even the older ones are pretty well maintained.

If you are concerned about the commute, I would simply avoid anything in First Colony south of Settler's Way Blvd. Everything just N of that is just what the doctor ordered.

Riverstone may be a bit of a stretch for you, but portions of it have easy access to 59 via University Blvd.

Anyway, here's a few sample listings you may want to look into:

Crescents on the Green; 4/3.5/3 around 10 yrs old, 400k, gated community, well maintained, etc:

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y

Villages of Avalon, easy access to 59 via University Blvd. 345k:

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y

Something slightly different: Faux brownstone in Lakepointe, close to 6, 59, the mall, etc.

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y

[Topaz]

Problem is, our realtor has just about convinced my wife that buying in Telfair is a bad decision because of the quality of buyers it will be attracting given the market right now (no matter where we look, my wife is very concerned about, ahem, demographics, much moreso than I am) and the risks that sometimes come from brand new construction. I just don't see how such a great location can be a bad decision.

What is giving your wife and realtor the idea that Telfair has problematic demographics? Telfair is as upscale as First Colony, maybe more so, isn't it?

[VicMan]

With your wife at Schlumberger Sugar Land it makes perfect sense to move to northeast Fort Bend County.

Please look at the FBISD zoning maps here: http://www.fortbend.k12.tx.us/cmf/default....ion=parentlinks

[KatieDidIt]

I've been to the burbs and back. Lived in a new construction area, and in old, established neighborhoods. The wisedom I can give you is...

Buy in an established, completed neighborhood. A known entity. One that has a reputation for being very good for years, with the schools included. The "demographics" are known and have been worked out, and there are big trees. The area is stable and clean of construction noise and garbage. No taco trucks! You can take a walk through a neighborhood and see if you even like the neighbors, or if you all are at least on the same page. It's the same concept that applies in Houston. Don't fall for the new house, fall for the neighborhood.

Your agent is right to be cautious about an area that is foreclosing and has too much inventory. This country is in deep trouble and buying a house outside of city limits can be risky if a neighborhood doesn't have a long-established, golden reputation. Not to mention that builders make the worst neighbors! She seems to be looking out for you.

I'd say First Colony, and find a good contractor to load the house with upgrades.

[Topaz]

I think someone knowledgeable about Telfair's sales stats and inventory levels should post them here. Some of these comments sound like they are from people who have never been to Telfair and have NO idea what type of community Telfair is.

And no, I don't live in Telfair and I don't work for anyone affiliated with Telfair. I do drive through it twice per day as a shortcut to 59.

[Jeebus]

Telfair homes themselves might be upscale, but the neighborhood is not close to being built. Most homes start at $400k and all you get for a neighborhood is a dusty trail with sketchy sub-contract construction crews on your street all day EVERY day. There are no trees for shade either - just freshly planted saplings.

If you're going to move into Telfair, I would wait at least another year because I know their prices are going to have to drop some more with the current economy.

It makes no sense to buy there, or anywhere under construction when you can buy established for $100k cheaper AFTER upgrades & modifications.

[Fringe]

First Colony is great as long as you stay off the increasing congested highway 6. I avoid it like the plague. You might also check out Sugar Mill or Sugar Creek. They are a little quieter and much less congested than First Colony. Get an older home and upgrade it the way YOU want it, if you have the time.

[jrc]

Considering all the excellent points made by KatieDidIt, you might want to consider Venetian Estates. Yes, it's an old neighborhood (one of Sugar Land's oldest), but it's a great neighborhood in a great location. You might even find a house that has already been updated.

[cottonmather0]

Thanks for all of the replies.

I am SICK to be moving from our existing house because my wife and I bought it old and unupdated five years ago and finally have it to about 95% of how we want it. It just doesn't make sense for us to stay here when we need more space and neither one of us needs to be near downtown like we did up until last summer.

Our listing is here fwiw. (Pictures of how it was originally are here)

The reasoning on Telfair is that the difference between the asking price and what things are really selling for these days seems to be 25% or more. My wife and our agent are worried that the low prices are going to attract downscale buyers and renters and that the quality of the neighborhood will suffer in the near term. I don't know if necessarily agree with that and I really like the idea of buying something brand new and up to date, especially with such a great location. It's not like it's 20 miles up Grand Parkway, after all. And as you can see, I've already done the remodeling and updating thing and I really don't want to go through it again, even if it's not a whole lot of money and minor-medium intensity stuff like countertops and flooring (as opposed to moving walls and plumbing).

(My wife also said yesterday that she heard the elevation in Telfair was lower and the soil stability worse, but I kind of think she was either fibbing or heard someone else who was... The only reason it was undeveloped for so long is just that it was under lease to the prison until recently...)

My personal objection to most of First Colony is that the housing stock is older and location isn't as good as Telfair. Yeah, all of the schools are great, but it's not like the alternative to Clements High School is Worthing or North Forest, either.

And from what I understand, traffic is really bad in the mornings getting to and from the schools and to 59 via Hwy 6 or Sweetwater Blvd and that seems to defeat the purpose of moving closer to my wife's office if she is still dealing with traffic, even if it's just a different kind of traffic.

It seems, though, that my question about whether First Colony is worth the money and hassle seems to be a resounding yes. No one who has responded has said that it's not.

[Topaz]

It seems, though, that my question about whether First Colony is worth the money and hassle seems to be a resounding yes. No one who has responded has said that it's not.

Actually, I don't think First Colony is worth the money and hassle if you'd rather be in Telfair. And I have a more favorable opinion of Telfair than your wife and realtor seem to have. I think there is very little chance that Telfair is going to attract "downscale" buyers or renters, but I don't know what your definition of downscale is, so you might not be happy in either Telfair or First Colony.

Your home that you renovated is beautifully done, by the way, but I sympathize with the desire to spend your free time doing something else now instead of renovating another one! That's why I think Telfair might be a better bet unless you can find a home in First Colony where someone else has already done the work.

[KatieDidIt]

Thanks for all of the replies.

I am SICK to be moving from our existing house because my wife and I bought it old and unupdated five years ago and finally have it to about 95% of how we want it. It just doesn't make sense for us to stay here when we need more space and neither one of us needs to be near downtown like we did up until last summer.

Our listing is here fwiw. (Pictures of how it was originally are here)

The reasoning on Telfair is that the difference between the asking price and what things are really selling for these days seems to be 25% or more. My wife and our agent are worried that the low prices are going to attract downscale buyers and renters and that the quality of the neighborhood will suffer in the near term. I don't know if necessarily agree with that and I really like the idea of buying something brand new and up to date, especially with such a great location. It's not like it's 20 miles up Grand Parkway, after all. And as you can see, I've already done the remodeling and updating thing and I really don't want to go through it again, even if it's not a whole lot of money and minor-medium intensity stuff like countertops and flooring (as opposed to moving walls and plumbing).

(My wife also said yesterday that she heard the elevation in Telfair was lower and the soil stability worse, but I kind of think she was either fibbing or heard someone else who was... The only reason it was undeveloped for so long is just that it was under lease to the prison until recently...)

My personal objection to most of First Colony is that the housing stock is older and location isn't as good as Telfair. Yeah, all of the schools are great, but it's not like the alternative to Clements High School is Worthing or North Forest, either.

And from what I understand, traffic is really bad in the mornings getting to and from the schools and to 59 via Hwy 6 or Sweetwater Blvd and that seems to defeat the purpose of moving closer to my wife's office if she is still dealing with traffic, even if it's just a different kind of traffic.

It seems, though, that my question about whether First Colony is worth the money and hassle seems to be a resounding yes. No one who has responded has said that it's not.

I understand your headache about the remodeling. When we moved out to a MPC, we had been remodeling our Tanglewood ranch for 10 years. It was 100% perfect when we put it on the market. When we thought we had to move for schools, we didn't want to mess with an old house, so we chose a brand spanking new, huge, uber custom, gorgeous house to move into. The area was new, building going on all around us. The streets were muddy and the sand came in the house constantly, the Taco Trucks ran up and down the streets honking 20 times a day, work trucks blocked the road daily, bulldozers and cement trucks running at 5am,the contract builders were lewd to the housewives, and the trash that rolled up and down the street along with the stink from the dumpsters........ Anywho, within 3 weeks we had known we made a mistake. We stuck it out for an additional 2 years and then we'd had enough. We sold the house at a loss....

The dynamics of the neighborhood were so very different from where either of us had ever lived that we never felt comfortable there. We had no clue that the neighborhood and neighbors would end up that way because the area had NO history, no reputation. A price tag on a neighborhood means nothing in new MPCs, you don't always get the neighborhood you THINK you paid for.

So you know what we did? We moved right back into an old house, in an old neighborhood with a great reputation for decades, and we have been remodeling for almost 2 years now. I love it. It's mine from head to toe. Yes, its a pain but it has a character,warmth and charm that that 22 ft vaulted ceiling, two story stone fireplace with the amazing kitchen house never did. Not to mention we have location/lot value again. I hated having all the value of the property to be in the house, because when the market tanks all you end up with is a pretty box on a postage stamp in the middle of nowhere. This new, old place is really our home, with respectable neighbors that respect privacy, yet are willing to lend a hand. And the neighborhood is a much better fit for us.

Anyway, good luck to you. I've heard nothing but good things about First Colony. I remember looking at the Sweetbriar and Commonwealth areas when we first got married. It's a well know area that will hold it's value. There's a reason that First Colony is holding it's value and Telfair is selling at 25% off.

Edit: You remodel is darling. I know it must be hard to leave it!

[Jeebus]

+1 to what Katie said about a still under construction MPC.

This morning after brunch in first colony, we drove to the exact area I recommended to you and I resoundingly still recommend it. Just as soon as my wife and I have enough money saved that is where we are moving to.

The BEST thing to do is to head down there EARLY one weekday morning and just drive around as it gets busy. See for yourself when Sweetwater starts to back up and how bad. For all you know, your wife's report time at work could fall right in line with a lull in the traffic surge.

You never know until you go check it out. FWIW, I'm vicariously living through you right now!

[sjetexas]

My personal objection to most of First Colony is that the housing stock is older and location isn't as good as Telfair. Yeah, all of the schools are great, but it's not like the alternative to Clements High School is Worthing or North Forest, either.

And from what I understand, traffic is really bad in the mornings getting to and from the schools and to 59 via Hwy 6 or Sweetwater Blvd and that seems to defeat the purpose of moving closer to my wife's office if she is still dealing with traffic, even if it's just a different kind of traffic.

I can't really understand how you would think Telfair is more conveniently located than FC. It's further out and it's on the north side of 59. Anything commercial of interest is going to be south of 59 (mall, town center, etc) and those 59 intersections, 6 in particular, are brutal. First Colony, aside from the easiest access to the mall area, has another good, nearby shopping area in Missouri City's Riverstone area.

Anyway, I live in the Plantation subdivisions, which is east of 6 and just south of Sugar Creek. We love the location, even though it may be under your price range...homes in the area seem to top out in the high 200s. The ease to local shopping can't be beat, schools are good (no Clements though), and the area seems pretty stable, safe, and quiet. And I can get to 59 with no traffic backup in the mornings within 5-8 min. From First Colony, there is pretty much no traffic if you take the Williams Trace (I think, don't go this way often), Sugar Creek (use as a cut through sometimes, which I'm sure those residents don't appreciate), and 90A entrances to 59.

[Fringe]

Considering all the excellent points made by KatieDidIt, you might want to consider Venetian Estates. Yes, it's an old neighborhood (one of Sugar Land's oldest), but it's a great neighborhood in a great location. You might even find a house that has already been updated.

As a "Venetian", I couldn't agree with you more but it's hard to find anything under 500k that doesn't need major work.

[jrc]

Um ... yeah. Forgot to mention that ...

[cottonmather0]

I can't really understand how you would think Telfair is more conveniently located than FC. It's further out and it's on the north side of 59. Anything commercial of interest is going to be south of 59 (mall, town center, etc) and those 59 intersections, 6 in particular, are brutal. First Colony, aside from the easiest access to the mall area, has another good, nearby shopping area in Missouri City's Riverstone area.

Anyway, I live in the Plantation subdivisions, which is east of 6 and just south of Sugar Creek. We love the location, even though it may be under your price range...homes in the area seem to top out in the high 200s. The ease to local shopping can't be beat, schools are good (no Clements though), and the area seems pretty stable, safe, and quiet. And I can get to 59 with no traffic backup in the mornings within 5-8 min. From First Colony, there is pretty much no traffic if you take the Williams Trace (I think, don't go this way often), Sugar Creek (use as a cut through sometimes, which I'm sure those residents don't appreciate), and 90A entrances to 59.

When I say location, I am mainly referring to proximity to my wife's job at Schlumberger on 90A, but yeah, I know all of the retail and amenities are on the south side.

As a "Venetian", I couldn't agree with you more but it's hard to find anything under 500k that doesn't need major work.

[sjetexas]

ah, totally missed the job loc in the original post...

[readam]

There are many homes in the Sugar Lakes, Alkire Lakes, Sugar Mill areas that are VERY CLOSE to Schlumberger. These may need some upgrading or have had it done already. May be less pricey too. Also north of 90A and along Jess Pirtle and Burney near Kempner High School are some new construction areas as well. No problems with schools in any of those areas mentioned, Elementary through High School. We have been more than pleased with the area. Only problem north of 90A are the train tracks if you are coming from the south of Schlumberger.

[Jeebus]

Mather, have you driven the area during morning/evening rush hour yet?

[SLTX]

Wow, a 15-20 year old home is "old"? How poor am I? I must be really out of touch. My house was built in 1972, and I thought that was new (my last house was built in 1905). I do require some trees though.... I couldn't live in a desert like Telfair and wait 20 years for the trees to grow.

And totally agree with the Venetian Estates comments. I grew up in that neighborhood, and would buy my family's old house back in a heartbeat if I had $900,000 laying around. Talk about a hot area. I LOVE all the waterfront properties in the area.... I might even be able to do without trees if it was on the water.

[cottonmather0]

Wow, a 15-20 year old home is "old"? How poor am I? I must be really out of touch. My house was built in 1972, and I thought that was new (my last house was built in 1905). I do require some trees though.... I couldn't live in a desert like Telfair and wait 20 years for the trees to grow.

And totally agree with the Venetian Estates comments. I grew up in that neighborhood, and would buy my family's old house back in a heartbeat if I had $900,000 laying around. Talk about a hot area. I LOVE all the waterfront properties in the area.... I might even be able to do without trees if it was on the water.

I guess that does sound kind of ridiculous at first blush. Thing is, the house we live in right now in Timbergrove was built in 1964 and we put in a lot of time and money modernizing it: copper pipes, solid countertops, structured wiring, new insulation, Pella windows - all kinds of stuff that's modern today but that would be missing from something original in First Colony, hence my comment there.

Anyway, the update here is that we are still waiting to sell this house, but we've pretty much decided (I'd say 95%) that Telfair is going to be the place once we are able to buy. Once they opened University all the way to Highway 6, my wife started testing the commute in the morning and at lunch and after work and she was very quickly sold over.

[SLTX]

If I had a bigger, newer house, I'd trade you! 2 of my last 3 jobs were in the Heights area, and I hate commuting. I like Timbergrove, but it has gotten SOOO pricey. And I had a friend who lived there and got ROYALLY flooded during Allison.... wouldn't like that. But all the houses in there look so nice now, seem to be a ton of remodels. And there are trees. Did I mention I like trees? (until a hurricane comes through and brings them crashing down on your house.... thanks IKE).